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Brand new player desperately seeking some advice for performance

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > New Player Help
Brand new player desperately seeking some advice for performance

zerkington's Avatar


zerkington
05.18.2021 , 03:18 PM | #11
post back here when it doesn't do anything so i can laugh

SteveTheCynic's Avatar


SteveTheCynic
05.19.2021 , 05:26 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by zerkington View Post
if memory serves,
Memory does not serve.
Quote: Originally Posted by zerkington View Post
swtor is dual threaded as in it literally only utilizes up to two threads at any given time.
There's at least three or four. I can easily see slightly over 20% utilisation *just* by SWTOR's processes, on an eight-by-two (eight cores with hyperthreads) i7(1), which says (at 6.25% for a maxed-out thread) more than three cores. EDIT: oops, more than three *threads*.
Quote: Originally Posted by zerkington View Post
any modern consumer CPU is going to hyperthreaded,
Consulting the Ark page for OP's CPU (a 9th Gen i5, so fairly modern) you'll see it has 6 threads across 6 cores == no hyperthreading. https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us...-4-10-ghz.html
Quote: Originally Posted by zerkington View Post
so swtor should not utilize more than a single core. while having a high clock speed is handy, the capabilities of your gpu are going to be more significant in terms of perfornce of the swtor client, especially if you're playing on high graphical settings.
SWTOR is notorious for performing badly in Warzones and 16-man Ops even on machines with top-tier GPUs, because there's something wrong with its use of main CPU computing resources.
Quote: Originally Posted by zerkington View Post
tbh, i've played swtor on probably nearly a dozen high end laptops and desktops over the years and even if you have a very high end gpu, such as a 2070/3070-2080/3080 playing swtor on high setting in warzones with all the people and animations it tends to lag.
Which is caused by inefficient processing on the main CPU.

Quote: Originally Posted by zerkington View Post
post back here when it doesn't do anything so i can laugh
A singularly unhelpful reply.

(1) i7-7820X.
Something you find difficult is a lesson on how to play better, not a punishment for playing badly.
To go to Belsavis, you must go to Belsavis.
Latest patch notes at http://www.swtor.com/patchnotes

zerkington's Avatar


zerkington
05.19.2021 , 05:41 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by SteveTheCynic View Post
Memory does not serve.
memory did serve.

Quote: Originally Posted by SteveTheCynic View Post
There's at least three or four. I can easily see slightly over 20% utilisation *just* by SWTOR's processes, on an eight-by-two (eight cores with hyperthreads) i7(1), which says (at 6.25% for a maxed-out thread) more than three cores. EDIT: oops, more than three *threads*.
this makes no difference. the point i was making is that swtor utilizes very little CPU resources. thus, whether it utilizes two or three threads is of no consequence since regardless of which it is swtor is still likely to run about as well on a duocore processor as it is on quadcore, hexacore, or octacore ^ processor.

Quote: Originally Posted by SteveTheCynic View Post
Consulting the Ark page for OP's CPU (a 9th Gen i5, so fairly modern) you'll see it has 6 threads across 6 cores == no hyperthreading. https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us...-4-10-ghz.html
you finally got me here, they should probably at least get a CPU that utilizes hyperthreading, that could help a bit. probably not much though as they already have more threads than swtor will use regardless of hyperthreading.

Quote: Originally Posted by SteveTheCynic View Post
SWTOR is notorious for performing badly in Warzones and 16-man Ops even on machines with top-tier GPUs, because there's something wrong with its use of main CPU computing resources.

Which is caused by inefficient processing on the main CPU.
there is nothing wrong with it. they used a terribly cheap and inefficient engine to develop the game, it works exactly as intended; like garbage. the crashing you're describing in high volume groups (which is the same crashing i was describing, that was so prevalent in the ossus WB groups) has nothing to do with CPU utilization. it happens when there are a ton of animations on screen, more the engine can handle on high settings even if the user has a top-tier GPU. this is why if you simply lower your graphical settings it will mitigate the lag in large groups if not nullify it entirely.

Quote: Originally Posted by SteveTheCynic View Post
A singularly unhelpful reply.
it may be unhelpful, but it's going to happen. or rather the OP will likely get a new CPU and still be lagging in large groups with high/very high graphic settings and they will then have to lower their settings to resolve the issue just as i stated anyway.

SteveTheCynic's Avatar


SteveTheCynic
05.20.2021 , 02:41 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by zerkington View Post
memory did serve.
You said "up to two", which is clearly wrong, so no, memory did not serve.
Quote: Originally Posted by zerkington View Post
this makes no difference. the point i was making is that swtor utilizes very little CPU resources.
Then you should have said exactly that, and I'd have agreed.
Quote: Originally Posted by zerkington View Post
thus, whether it utilizes two or three threads is of no consequence since regardless of which it is swtor is still likely to run about as well on a duocore processor as it is on quadcore, hexacore, or octacore ^ processor.
It *will* run significantly worse on a duocore, even if it's a two-by-two, because all duocore processors are *old* or *slow* or both, and a two-by-one would be even worse as the **four** threads in SWTOR would only have **two** execution units to run on.
Quote: Originally Posted by zerkington View Post
you finally got me here, they should probably at least get a CPU that utilizes hyperthreading, that could help a bit. probably not much though as they already have more threads than swtor will use regardless of hyperthreading.
Hyperthreading is irrelevant, as it's only a way to have more parallelism without adding more cores, and it is the parallelism (or lack thereof) that is important, not the mechanism. (And an eight-by-one with the same basic clock and architecture generation will be faster than a four-by-two because there will be less cache contention, except that Windows is pretty good at distributing low compute loads on a one-per core basis on hyperthreaded CPUs.)
Quote: Originally Posted by zerkington View Post
there is nothing wrong with it. they used a terribly cheap and inefficient engine to develop the game, it works exactly as intended; like garbage.
Dunno, that sounds pretty wrong to me.
Quote: Originally Posted by zerkington View Post
the crashing you're describing in high volume groups (which is the same crashing i was describing, that was so prevalent in the ossus WB groups) has nothing to do with CPU utilization. it happens when there are a ton of animations on screen, more the engine can handle on high settings even if the user has a top-tier GPU. this is why if you simply lower your graphical settings it will mitigate the lag in large groups if not nullify it entirely.
I wouldn't describe that as *crashing*, but whatever. (It's frame rate drops, not "boom, game crashed, back to desktop".) Frame rates are determined by three things:
* The ability of the main CPU to handle its tasks.
* The ability of the GPU to handle *its* tasks.
* Any hard limit the game / its engine has. (For ESO, that's about 100 fps, while for SWTOR it's around 200.)

Typically, one of the "soft" limits will "max out" before the other, and SWTOR's frame rate display (Ctrl+Shift+F) is red when the FPS is limited by the GPU, and green when it's limited by the main CPU. Which one maxes out at a particular graphics setting depends on the relative performance of the two components *and* the activity.
Something you find difficult is a lesson on how to play better, not a punishment for playing badly.
To go to Belsavis, you must go to Belsavis.
Latest patch notes at http://www.swtor.com/patchnotes

JediQuaker's Avatar


JediQuaker
05.20.2021 , 06:55 AM | #15
Basically, Zerk is about as wrong as they can be.

SWTOR's fps drops in PvP and OPs is a direct function of the CPU. Period.

No need to keep going on about it though.
Hold water, a sieve may not, but hold another sieve, it will - Yoda..

jfxmurphy's Avatar


jfxmurphy
05.20.2021 , 02:48 PM | #16
Is Red on the FPS Meter a signal of CPU or GPU bottleneck?

zerkington's Avatar


zerkington
05.20.2021 , 04:57 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by SteveTheCynic View Post
It *will* run significantly worse on a duocore, even if it's a two-by-two, because all duocore processors are *old* or *slow* or both, and a two-by-one would be even worse as the **four** threads in SWTOR would only have **two** execution units to run on.
this is incorrect. let me try to reiterate my previous point more; if you took a bunch of processors that are all hyperthreaded and all have the same clock speed, let's say a duocore, a quadcore, and an octacore. then you booted up a system with each of them that was handling a single two threaded process they would all handle that process with roughly the same efficiency. in short, the only way a higher core/threaded processor will help in this event is if the OP is running a bunch of other processes while they are also playing swtor (more than their CPU can handle). as for the clock speed, this can be an issue, but the OP has a boosted 3.9 GHz processor. that's pretty good, i seriously doubt that his CPU is the issue.

Quote: Originally Posted by SteveTheCynic View Post
Hyperthreading is irrelevant, as it's only a way to have more parallelism without adding more cores, and it is the parallelism (or lack thereof) that is important, not the mechanism. (And an eight-by-one with the same basic clock and architecture generation will be faster than a four-by-two because there will be less cache contention, except that Windows is pretty good at distributing low compute loads on a one-per core basis on hyperthreaded CPUs.)
this is true, and it's precisely what i've already been stating. except i didn't mention cache contention, which you already point out yourself is negligible.

Quote: Originally Posted by SteveTheCynic View Post
I wouldn't describe that as *crashing*, but whatever. (It's frame rate drops, not "boom, game crashed, back to desktop".) Frame rates are determined by three things:
* The ability of the main CPU to handle its tasks.
* The ability of the GPU to handle *its* tasks.
* Any hard limit the game / its engine has. (For ESO, that's about 100 fps, while for SWTOR it's around 200.)
it's what happens when the systems resources are exhausted. if it's bad enough the client will crash. your list of primary factors for client lag is correct.

Quote: Originally Posted by SteveTheCynic View Post
Typically, one of the "soft" limits will "max out" before the other, and SWTOR's frame rate display (Ctrl+Shift+F) is red when the FPS is limited by the GPU, and green when it's limited by the main CPU. Which one maxes out at a particular graphics setting depends on the relative performance of the two components *and* the activity.
i didn't know that about the FPS counter coloration. thanks.

Quote: Originally Posted by JediQuaker View Post
Basically, Zerk is about as wrong as they can be.

SWTOR's fps drops in PvP and OPs is a direct function of the CPU. Period.

No need to keep going on about it though.
actually it is you who is as wrong as can be. even steve and i are on the same page about this. FPS drops in the SWTOR client are NOT indicative solely of the CPU - period.

as steve correctly points out;
Quote: Originally Posted by SteveTheCynic View Post
Frame rates are determined by three things:
* The ability of the main CPU to handle its tasks.
* The ability of the GPU to handle *its* tasks.
* Any hard limit the game / its engine has. (For ESO, that's about 100 fps, while for SWTOR it's around 200.)
Quote: Originally Posted by jfxmurphy View Post
Is Red on the FPS Meter a signal of CPU or GPU bottleneck?
according to steve;
Quote: Originally Posted by SteveTheCynic View Post
SWTOR's frame rate display (Ctrl+Shift+F) is red when the FPS is limited by the GPU, and green when it's limited by the main CPU.
if this is correct, it looks like i was right. your frame rate issues are likely GPU based.

jfxmurphy's Avatar


jfxmurphy
05.28.2021 , 02:59 PM | #18
Did some warzones today and fps seems okay: some drops to 40, but remains around 60. The issue seems to be the mouse/slight input delay at times: for instance, mouse movement can get a bit slow when lots of people are fighting, and despite the frames being okay, it can just 'feel' a bit clunky when hitting abilities. Not sure how to explain it haha!

SteveTheCynic's Avatar


SteveTheCynic
05.29.2021 , 02:30 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by zerkington View Post
actually it is you who is as wrong as can be. even steve and i are on the same page about this.
I'm not sure how you can justify saying that you and I are on the same page. I have disagreed with almost everything you said.
Something you find difficult is a lesson on how to play better, not a punishment for playing badly.
To go to Belsavis, you must go to Belsavis.
Latest patch notes at http://www.swtor.com/patchnotes

zerkington's Avatar


zerkington
06.02.2021 , 04:58 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by SteveTheCynic View Post
I'm not sure how you can justify saying that you and I are on the same page. I have disagreed with almost everything you said.
i said specifically, that we were on the same page about that particular topic, not in general. you correctly stated that there are many factors that contribute to client lag. where as the previous poster was stating, incorrectly, that client lag only derives from insufficient CPU resources and nothing else! - period.

why even respond in this thread after two weeks and you've already posted in a dozen or more other threads in the same forum? besides, the issue is solved. i was correct in the first place and all the OP has to do to improve performance is lower their graphic settings. else, the OP would benefit more from upgrading their GPU rather than their CPU.