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Conquest, Crafting, and Balance


DWho

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It has been a while now since crafting was destroyed as a means to do conquest and it is time to take another look. I see two possibilities in making it a vibrant part of conquest as opposed to the joke it currently is.

 

The first and probably least liked by the guilds that got it nerfed in the first place is to restore some of the repeatables:

 

1) Make Conquest: Inventor infinitely repeatable but retain the 1 mission = 1 item (or give +1 for crits so that those who invested in the ability to get crits gain something) style.

2) Restore Crafting: Harvesting to infinitely repeatable but block harvesting in Operations and Flashpoints to minimize the farming of high level mats in those areas.

2) Eliminate purchasing mats from vendor for credits. All mats used in Conquest should have to be harvested by someone (or bought with Jawa junk).

3) Make all jawa junk mat costs equal to the square of the level of mat (4 for grade 2, 100 for grade 10, etc)

3) Restore Dark Project and War Supplies to infinitely repeatable during the Crafting Conquest week. (their cost to manufacture is crazy high already)

 

The second idea is to make the War Supplies and Invasion Forces crafted required for Planetary Invasions:

 

1) Move a Guild Ship: 50 of any War Supply (These could be contributed directly by whoever moves the ship or from the Guild Bank)

2) Guild Conquest/Reknown bonus applies only to the planet the Guildship is in orbit of (yes, that ,means crafting would never get the CQ/Reknown bonus)

2) Invade a Small Planet: 3 Invasion Forces and 20 of one type of War Supplies

3) Invade a Medium Planet: 5 Invasion Forces and 50 of two different War Supplies (ie. 50 vehicles and 50 crystal capacitors)

4) Invade a Large Planet: 10 Invasion Forces and 100 of each type of War Supply based on the crafter type (ie. 100 Infantry Kits, 100 Starship Weapons, 100 Crystal Capacitors)

 

These would have to be in the Guild Bank prior to selecting the Invasion and would be deducted upon Invasion acceptance.

 

Not really a "fix" for Conquest Crafting but a third possibility to balance conquest a bit more would be to have only one type of activity have an infinitely repeatable activity in any week:

 

Week 1: GSF "Fly a Mission" infinitely repeatable

Week 2: Warzones "Complete a Ranked or Unranked Warzone) infinitly repeatable

Week 3: Flashpoint: "Complete a Flashpoint/Uprising" infinitely repeatable with different numbers of CQ points for the different difficulty levels

Week 4: Heroics: "Complete a Heroic" infinitely repeatable

Week 5: Crafting: "Crafting: Inventor" infinitely repeatable.

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No. Absolutely no. This locks out guilds without crafters. There is no call for this at all.

 

But it doesn't lock out any guilds any more that the current system "locks" small guilds out of expanding their guildships (which it doesn't). If you can't find one to three alts to make these items, then you could buy them from the GTN. It also makes crafting an integral part of conquest instead of it being useless.

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But it doesn't lock out any guilds any more that the current system "locks" small guilds out of expanding their guildships (which it doesn't). If you can't find one to three alts to make these items, then you could buy them from the GTN. It also makes crafting an integral part of conquest instead of it being useless.

 

This requirement would drive up demand and subsequently the cost of invasion forces into the billions on the GTN. Only well-funded guilds would ever be able to afford them.

 

Bad idea.

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This requirement would drive up demand and subsequently the cost of invasion forces into the billions on the GTN. Only well-funded guilds would ever be able to afford them.

 

Bad idea.

 

Unlikely since they are so easy to make and the demand would not be that high since the most you would need is 10 per week for your guild (and there are hundreds of thousands of them in cargo holds across the game). All you have to do is have crafters in your guild, and there would be no cost at all. Crafting is basically free after all.

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Unlikely since they are so easy to make and the demand would not be that high since the most you would need is 10 per week for your guild (and there are hundreds of thousands of them in cargo holds across the game). All you have to do is have crafters in your guild, and there would be no cost at all. Crafting is basically free after all.

 

I suspect few would be willing to stake the issue on any reliance to that.

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Unlikely since they are so easy to make and the demand would not be that high since the most you would need is 10 per week for your guild (and there are hundreds of thousands of them in cargo holds across the game). All you have to do is have crafters in your guild, and there would be no cost at all. Crafting is basically free after all.

 

except it's not, it takes time and materials, constantly gathering and making the items needed would put people off, or worse, the same people each time would be forced to do it each week. And as crafting has been basically killed as a cq objective, most people don't want to do it anymore. As it is, these are already expensive, and if used in this manner, would definitely increase.

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except it's not, it takes time and materials, constantly gathering and making the items needed would put people off, or worse, the same people each time would be forced to do it each week. And as crafting has been basically killed as a cq objective, most people don't want to do it anymore. As it is, these are already expensive, and if used in this manner, would definitely increase.

 

That is part of the point though, to make crafting a valued part of Conquest (if you want the rewards, someone needs to put in the effort). Right now, crafting is a joke and completely ignoring it has no impact on Conquest at all. As a vocation, only the super rich get any benefit out of it. This would potentially make it valuable enough for non-specialists to do some crafting if they could potentially sell their wares on the GTN. This would make it something that was needed. To be honest, making 10 Invasion Forces a week is not that much of a burden for getting the rewards you get from Conquest.

 

Personally, I'd prefer options 1 or 3, but both are likely to get pushback from the "We don't want any crafting in the game crowd" and the 2nd point was offered as a middle ground. Crafting still wouldn't be viable to win Conquest but it would at least have some impact (which might mollify the opponents of 1 and 3).

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It has been a while now since crafting was destroyed as a means to do conquest and it is time to take another look. I see two possibilities in making it a vibrant part of conquest as opposed to the joke it currently is.

 

The first and probably least liked by the guilds that got it nerfed in the first place is to restore some of the repeatables:

 

1) Make Conquest: Inventor infinitely repeatable but retain the 1 mission = 1 item (or give +1 for crits so that those who invested in the ability to get crits gain something) style.

2) Restore Crafting: Harvesting to infinitely repeatable but block harvesting in Operations and Flashpoints to minimize the farming of high level mats in those areas.

2) Eliminate purchasing mats from vendor for credits. All mats used in Conquest should have to be harvested by someone (or bought with Jawa junk).

3) Make all jawa junk mat costs equal to the square of the level of mat (4 for grade 2, 100 for grade 10, etc)

3) Restore Dark Project and War Supplies to infinitely repeatable during the Crafting Conquest week. (their cost to manufacture is crazy high already)

 

The second idea is to make the War Supplies and Invasion Forces crafted required for Planetary Invasions:

 

1) Move a Guild Ship: 50 of any War Supply (These could be contributed directly by whoever moves the ship or from the Guild Bank)

2) Guild Conquest/Reknown bonus applies only to the planet the Guildship is in orbit of (yes, that ,means crafting would never get the CQ/Reknown bonus)

2) Invade a Small Planet: 3 Invasion Forces and 20 of one type of War Supplies

3) Invade a Medium Planet: 5 Invasion Forces and 50 of two different War Supplies (ie. 50 vehicles and 50 crystal capacitors)

4) Invade a Large Planet: 10 Invasion Forces and 100 of each type of War Supply based on the crafter type (ie. 100 Infantry Kits, 100 Starship Weapons, 100 Crystal Capacitors)

 

These would have to be in the Guild Bank prior to selecting the Invasion and would be deducted upon Invasion acceptance.

 

Not really a "fix" for Conquest Crafting but a third possibility to balance conquest a bit more would be to have only one type of activity have an infinitely repeatable activity in any week:

 

Week 1: GSF "Fly a Mission" infinitely repeatable

Week 2: Warzones "Complete a Ranked or Unranked Warzone) infinitly repeatable

Week 3: Flashpoint: "Complete a Flashpoint/Uprising" infinitely repeatable with different numbers of CQ points for the different difficulty levels

Week 4: Heroics: "Complete a Heroic" infinitely repeatable

Week 5: Crafting: "Crafting: Inventor" infinitely repeatable.

 

 

I'm voting yes please for the first and third suggestion, that would definitely bring some balance back to conquest.

 

But I disagree with the second suggestion. Those things are too expensive for a lot of people. Big guilds can buy them from GTN to invade a planet, but small guilds who don't have crafters or a lot of credits in the bank, wouldn't be able to invade a planet anymore, and they would not get conquest rewards if that would happen. That is, if I understood your idea correctly. It shouldn't cost anything to invade a planet. However, it might be a really good idea if the current conquest rewards wouldn't be coupled with the guild invading something and capping their target. If everyone would get the rewards just by completing their personal goal, then it might work.

 

Most guilds aren't big enough to win a planet. The players in those guilds know that and are just happy with the rewards they get at weekly reset. If they want a conquerer title they would have to put an alt into a conquest guild (like they are already doing), but they would get to play mostly in guilds they call their home.

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Vehemently disagree with this one.

 

2) Eliminate purchasing mats from vendor for credits. All mats used in Conquest should have to be harvested by someone (or bought with Jawa junk).

 

Well, that one was put in to appease the people who are saying that mats are too easy to obtain, specifically that people are buying Cartel Market items to sell on the GTN to buy mats (which would be really silly but who knows). I don't think there is much sense to that argument, but left it in for that reason. Would you be opposed to something like Grade 6 and below mats cannot be purchased from a vendor ( I don't buy them so I'm not sure what the highest level you can buy is - maybe just limit it to Grades 1 through 3 removed from the vendor) or are you purchasing a lot of those as well with credits.

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I'm voting yes please for the first and third suggestion, that would definitely bring some balance back to conquest.

 

But I disagree with the second suggestion. Those things are too expensive for a lot of people. Big guilds can buy them from GTN to invade a planet, but small guilds who don't have crafters or a lot of credits in the bank, wouldn't be able to invade a planet anymore, and they would not get conquest rewards if that would happen. That is, if I understood your idea correctly. It shouldn't cost anything to invade a planet. However, it might be a really good idea if the current conquest rewards wouldn't be coupled with the guild invading something and capping their target. If everyone would get the rewards just by completing their personal goal, then it might work.

 

Most guilds aren't big enough to win a planet. The players in those guilds know that and are just happy with the rewards they get at weekly reset. If they want a conquerer title they would have to put an alt into a conquest guild (like they are already doing), but they would get to play mostly in guilds they call their home.

 

How about limiting the second one to only those guilds desiring the titles. Have a checkbox in the invasion window (Titles Invasion) which then applies those requirements. In that case only the largest guilds would likely check that box since small and medium guilds have no realistic chance to win any planets.

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I respect that you thought this out but it is an unpopular idea and is not what the majority does in game or want to do in game.

 

I doubt it is a majority of players or even a majority of guilds that would be impacted by any of the proposed changes. The whole "Nerf Crafting" push was coordinated by one guild and a couple of allied guilds. The main reason being that it brought unpredictability to Conquest. You were never really sure how many points an opponent might have "Stored up" so you had to push to the end instead of quitting early with an insurmountable lead. Right now it is fairly simple to calculate how much of a lead you need to win a planet by Sunday afternoon (most invasions are determined much earlier than that right now) and allow you to start stockpiling completed objectives for the next week to drop as soon as Conquest resets.

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How about limiting the second one to only those guilds desiring the titles. Have a checkbox in the invasion window (Titles Invasion) which then applies those requirements. In that case only the largest guilds would likely check that box since small and medium guilds have no realistic chance to win any planets.

 

Yes, that would do it. It would also make War Supplies and Invasion Force items to mean something.

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I doubt it is a majority of players or even a majority of guilds that would be impacted by any of the proposed changes..

 

Proposing to remove the option to buy mats off vendors will definitely impact the majority of crafters. And not in a way that they'd like.

 

Proposing to enforce a requirement for crafting war supplies and invasion forces to even participate in planetary conquest would also definitely impact the majority of players and guild - granted, most would probably be able to still participate but nobody wants to be forced to craft these things just to be able to invade.

 

I'm not saying your ideas are bad, they just aren't going to be popular. Just think about some of the complaints about season POs, the idea of having POs is not bad but the specific POs implemented seem to be very unpopular.

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It has been a while now since crafting was destroyed as a means to do conquest and it is time to take another look. I see two possibilities in making it a vibrant part of conquest as opposed to the joke it currently is.

 

The first and probably least liked by the guilds that got it nerfed in the first place is to restore some of the repeatables:

 

1) Make Conquest: Inventor infinitely repeatable but retain the 1 mission = 1 item (or give +1 for crits so that those who invested in the ability to get crits gain something) style.

2) Restore Crafting: Harvesting to infinitely repeatable but block harvesting in Operations and Flashpoints to minimize the farming of high level mats in those areas.

2) Eliminate purchasing mats from vendor for credits. All mats used in Conquest should have to be harvested by someone (or bought with Jawa junk).

3) Make all jawa junk mat costs equal to the square of the level of mat (4 for grade 2, 100 for grade 10, etc)

3) Restore Dark Project and War Supplies to infinitely repeatable during the Crafting Conquest week. (their cost to manufacture is crazy high already)

 

The second idea is to make the War Supplies and Invasion Forces crafted required for Planetary Invasions:

 

1) Move a Guild Ship: 50 of any War Supply (These could be contributed directly by whoever moves the ship or from the Guild Bank)

2) Guild Conquest/Reknown bonus applies only to the planet the Guildship is in orbit of (yes, that ,means crafting would never get the CQ/Reknown bonus)

2) Invade a Small Planet: 3 Invasion Forces and 20 of one type of War Supplies

3) Invade a Medium Planet: 5 Invasion Forces and 50 of two different War Supplies (ie. 50 vehicles and 50 crystal capacitors)

4) Invade a Large Planet: 10 Invasion Forces and 100 of each type of War Supply based on the crafter type (ie. 100 Infantry Kits, 100 Starship Weapons, 100 Crystal Capacitors)

 

These would have to be in the Guild Bank prior to selecting the Invasion and would be deducted upon Invasion acceptance.

 

Not really a "fix" for Conquest Crafting but a third possibility to balance conquest a bit more would be to have only one type of activity have an infinitely repeatable activity in any week:

 

Week 1: GSF "Fly a Mission" infinitely repeatable

Week 2: Warzones "Complete a Ranked or Unranked Warzone) infinitly repeatable

Week 3: Flashpoint: "Complete a Flashpoint/Uprising" infinitely repeatable with different numbers of CQ points for the different difficulty levels

Week 4: Heroics: "Complete a Heroic" infinitely repeatable

Week 5: Crafting: "Crafting: Inventor" infinitely repeatable.

 

how about no?

Big guilds have exploited crafting to the last possible way.

the changes are good, You do a CZ198 daily run and you are done with conquest in 10 minutes

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How about this isn't needed anymore. Back when conquest first came out your guild had to hit the TOP 10 to get guild rewards, now you just have to hit the benchmark for Large, Med, and Small Yields to get the guild rewards. Getting 1st place now only gets you titles if you need the titles then join one of the two top guilds get your titles and go back to your solo giuld.
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how about no?

Big guilds have exploited crafting to the last possible way.

the changes are good, You do a CZ198 daily run and you are done with conquest in 10 minutes

 

Crafting was never an exploit. It was available for everyone to do it. Removing it changed nothing on the leaderboard. Same guilds are still winning. Removing it only hurt the small guilds.

 

What comes to Czerka run, you can do it once per day. That's max 7 alts per week. And what happens if everyone on the server goes to do Czerka at the same time? Nobody will get it done... Even if it was infinitely repeatable, nobody would still get it done because too many people, and it would get boring really fast. That's why we need more balanced conquest objectives, and the big point objectives should rotate. At the moment it's basically nothing but GSF, every single week. That's really far from balanced.

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Crafting was never an exploit. It was available for everyone to do it. Removing it changed nothing on the leaderboard. Same guilds are still winning. Removing it only hurt the small guilds.

 

What comes to Czerka run, you can do it once per day. That's max 7 alts per week. And what happens if everyone on the server goes to do Czerka at the same time? Nobody will get it done... Even if it was infinitely repeatable, nobody would still get it done because too many people, and it would get boring really fast. That's why we need more balanced conquest objectives, and the big point objectives should rotate. At the moment it's basically nothing but GSF, every single week. That's really far from balanced.

 

And i say it was exploited, You just dont know how, and evidence provided to the devs changed the system because of this, give a thanks to the big guilds if youre bothered.

there are 20 other planets you can do exactly the same CQ or even more like on CZ198, youre obviously ignoring this as an example rather than a solution. crafting was exploited and good that they made it a daily instead of an infinite mission.

 

Also how is crafting less boring than doing dailies? this makes 0 sense.

 

And what do you mean "too many people" there are several instances on each planet if there are "too many people".

 

I have no clue what youre talking about

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How about this isn't needed anymore. Back when conquest first came out your guild had to hit the TOP 10 to get guild rewards, now you just have to hit the benchmark for Large, Med, and Small Yields to get the guild rewards. Getting 1st place now only gets you titles if you need the titles then join one of the two top guilds get your titles and go back to your solo giuld.

 

well i want my CQ rewards and not join those guilds who already established themselves in a shady way. However i fully agree with your second part

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well i want my CQ rewards and not join those guilds who already established themselves in a shady way. However i fully agree with your second part

 

Well then your small guild should easily hit the large-cap every week - just make sure yall have your 150% stronghold bonus.

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