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Help me to understand why we have an NPC deco cap in our SHs....


AmorandaAdamah

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So, what is the reason for the NPC deco cap in SHs?

We have these HUGE SHs and the opportunity to create things like a market place with the fabrication droids and the jawas, a jumpin' cantina with musicians, bartenders, waitresses and patrons, we can purchase both Imp and Pub personnel bundles, not to mention our companions.... So why the cap? It seems so silly to me.

My SH is my own story contribution with a story and should be free of this restriction.

Consider removing it, would ya? :p

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It's a performance thing. I don't remember if it was stated as a server performance thing or a client performance thing, but that's what it is. (The actual computers used in MMORPG servers change significantly less often than you might think, since they have to be up and running 24x7, and there are still players using 2011 potatoes to play SWTOR.)
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The NPC cap of 25 only applies to selectable NPCs, that includes companions, selectable personnel decorations (usually vendors) and some pets (usually those with a visual effect, like glowing Raklings) There is nothing stopping you from making a cantina crammed with people, as long as the majority aren't vendors or companions.

 

As for why it was done: selectable NPCs can be targeted by abilities, imagine 50 players using AOE abilities on dozens of NPCs simultaneously - that usually happens across a whole planet, where the server only has to update the nearby players on the state of the NPCs. Having this in a single room might cause server-lag problems for everyone, not only those in the stronghold.

Edited by Mubrak
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The actual computers used in MMORPG servers change significantly less often than you might think, since they have to be up and running 24x7, and there are still players using 2011 potatoes to play SWTOR.)

Part of the problem is the dirty little secret that CPUs haven't really changed all that much since 2011. On a per-core basis, performance has only gone up about 25% cumulatively. Newer CPUs have more cores and better power efficiency, but since SWTOR only uses two threads, the extra cores and lower power don't help.

Which is why it's amusing when people say there new 3.2Ghz 6-core processor should be able to run "potato" SWTOR.

A new 3.2 GHz CPU won't run SWTOR any better than a 2011 era 4.7GHz 4-core CPU.

(Much like a new 200 HP V-6 pickup truck won't haul any more dirt than a 2011 200HP V-8 pickup would. It would just use less gas. 🙂 )

Edited by JediQuaker
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I've seen the two SWTOR processes get my 8-core hyperthreaded CPU (= 16 vCPUs) up to nearly 25% between them, meaning there's at least four threads running.

It's that stuff you're downloading in the background. 😇

Edited by JediQuaker
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A good question, that has been asked before. BW as of yet has never (as far as I know) given an answer..

 

They have, when the limit still applied to all types of NPC:

Hey folks!

 

I know the NPC limit is certainly something many of you would like to see raised so I wanted to explain why it is in place currently. As most of you suspect already, it is a performance issue. Without going into too much detail, if someone's Stronghold begins to load a large amount of NPCs it can create issues not only in your Stronghold, but in others as well.

 

As with all things we will continue to monitor this limit and raise it as we can. We want to give you the opportunity to place as many NPCs possible, but we also want to ensure you have the best experience in your Stronghold as well.

 

Hope that makes sense. Thanks!

 

-eric

 

 

And then they changed it in 2.10.2:

  • NPC Decorations have been refactored, and the 25 NPC Limit now applies only to interactable NPCs.

 

I also vaguely remember a forum or blog post or live stream, where they went more into more detail on the change to NPC decorations, how that reduced their impact on server performance, and the side effects. (e.g. pet decorations being silent since then) but I can't find it.

Edited by Mubrak
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It's that stuff you're downloading in the background. 😇

Um. No. I have Task Manager open on the other screen, and it shows a percentage for each of the two SWTOR processes that, when I add the two percentages together, I get 20-25%. That's with SWTOR-Steam *or* with SWTOR-SSN. Any downloads going on the background are not included in the 20-25%.

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Um. No. I have Task Manager open on the other screen, and it shows a percentage for each of the two SWTOR processes that, when I add the two percentages together, I get 20-25%. That's with SWTOR-Steam *or* with SWTOR-SSN. Any downloads going on the background are not included in the 20-25%.

Psst. ** whispering ** It was a joke. Maybe if I hadn't had to use "stuff" instead of another word that starts with 'p' and rhymes with 'corn', it would be more obvious. 😂

Edited by JediQuaker
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Part of the problem is the dirty little secret that CPUs haven't really changed all that much since 2011. On a per-core basis, performance has only gone up about 25% cumulatively. Newer CPUs have more cores and better power efficiency, but since SWTOR only uses two threads, the extra cores and lower power don't help.

Which is why it's amusing when people say there new 3.2Ghz 6-core processor should be able to run "potato" SWTOR.

A new 3.2 GHz CPU won't run SWTOR any better than a 2011 era 4.7GHz 4-core CPU.

(Much like a new 200 HP V-6 pickup truck won't haul any more dirt than a 2011 200HP V-8 pickup would. It would just use less gas. 🙂 )

 

Not a very good analogy, HP is a much more useful indication of performance than frequency is for a CPU, as Hz doesn't really tell you much unless you also know the IPC (see the 5950X being comparable (or even superior) in single thread performance to the 11900K despite having 400 MHz slower boost clock)

 

And those IPC gains mean a 2021 3.2 GHz CPU probably will perform as good, if not better than a 2011 4.7 Ghz CPU (especially if you're talking AMD, who had a ~19% IPC jump from 3rd to 4th gen Ryzen alone)

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So, I understand the reason for the limit, but there is a workaround: more NPCs. And maybe an NPC set based on companions that isn't tied to companions (i.e. not interactable). It could additionally be helped by being able to turn holos on and off, allowing more flexibility in how they're displayed (probably a global toggle in settings, rather than making them interactable and compounding the system resources problem). Edited by Mercielaga
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Psst. ** whispering ** It was a joke. Maybe if I hadn't had to use "stuff" instead of another word that starts with 'p' and rhymes with 'corn', it would be more obvious. 😂

Yeah, I got what you meant, and just wanted the audience to understand that if I *was* downloading that stuff (sorry, no, that's reserved for my iPad for ... reasons), it wasn't included.

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