I hate level scaling, it just kill progression and you never actually feel like a real powerful character, nonsense. I'm level 75 with the best 306 gear and stats for my class and role but still; I get killed in 1 minute by a level 17 world boss, absolutely ridiculous, it's totally pointless to level up and get the best gear.

You are the SAME type of person that says "hurr durr low level areas are all dead".

Level scaling exists to make low level areas relevant again and it works perfectly.

If you want to one-shot everything and /flex your tiny e-peen then this game is not for you.

No, they won't remove leveling scaling because it revamped the game in a very positive way.

You are a VERY VERY TINY minority that no one listens to, you'll have to deal with it.

I would really love the option to turn it off and on. It's great to be able to do quests we've outleveled but still get proportional XP for them, but sometimes you just want to go back to an early planet and not have to worry about weak trash mobs knocking you off your speeder or wasting your time. I miss that from the early days.

Imagine an event to kill world bosses, there'd be level 75 trolls destroying the fun for everyone.

I would really love the option to turn it off and on. It's great to be able to do quests we've outleveled but still get proportional XP for them, but sometimes you just want to go back to an early planet and not have to worry about weak trash mobs knocking you off your speeder or wasting your time. I miss that from the early days.

and then we get the same crap problems again and has the lvl sync no use any more for it.

you can ask any old player how it was before the level sync it was when there are starting with a new toon i bet there tell you it was worse since you cant do anything against the people that think its fun to bully other players by destroying all the monsters in a place what other people need to kill for there quest.

and here are some quote's from others that have told it all on this thread the reasons why level sync is needed:

Not to mention, kiss goodbye any chance of getting WB's for CQ or quests, as it'll go back to the way it was, high levels going around killing them for themselves, or to troll :/

I heard stories of the old time when high level players can kill every npc in the enemy base and they do it for fun and to see low level/new level players shocked and lost.

 

I also don't want to do Heroics on DK with my new toon and some lv75 player just wipe everything on the map in 10 sec because it's "fun" to troll newbies.

see 2 good quote's that have been post on this thread with a good reason why level sync most stay if you not wane see this happing again

First I'll say I do like scaling, but to a point. Naturally I'm going to be in the minority and that's fine. I also don't expect the designers to make any changes or considerations because we are the minority. I've been playing since 2013 and unlike many others, I enjoyed being rewarded for the hard work leveling up. Yes, it did make some worlds boring because of 1 shot kills, but you work hard to get your level higher and it helps for completing legacy tasks. It shouldn't be that you go to a planet that is capped at 40 and the enemies there can kill you regardless of the upgrades you have while having your companion set to heal at influence 50 on a heroic 2 mission.

I agree, make it harder to kill your enemies... like it is now, it does make it fun, but for the people that did the work don't make it so easy during PVE to get killed. It makes it difficult to want to try to go to those worlds if everything you did to get where you are means nothing except when doing PVP. It shouldn't be that easy to get killed if you have a better item ranking than someone that is level 40 playing the level for the first time. There should be some reward.

As one of the old players mentioned, I wouldn't mind getting rid of level scaling BUT ONLY FOR THE 8 FPS that don't have story mode (The Colicoid one would need some other alterations) if only because I used to think it was a hoot at Level 60 to run through a Level 50 Flashpoint and see how many mobs I could get on my tail before they overwhelmed me. (I think the answer was somewhere between 10-15.)

But I imagine most perceptive posters will realize that all I really want is just a story mode for the rest of the old FPs for when I don't feel like a group (which is mostly when I'm doing them for the first time with my upcoming Consular). I won't deny certain Heroics were also a hoot before Level Sync (Running straight to Bloodgouge and wiping out the entire clan in one fight as an example.) but overall everyone has already said all the reasons why we should keep level sync.

Level scaling is fine for the most part, but since your gear stats are still intact, it actually makes certain things on low-level planets easier. This mostly comes into play when you have a class story that requires you to go back to an earlier planet. (The two Sith classes are the most noticeable cases, since they both fight their final bosses on Korriban.)

I think the best compromise would be to have level scaling be disabled when you enter an instance as part of a quest where you're expected to be a higher level.

As someone who has played both non-level scaling vs. level scaling, I prefer non-level scaling. For one, your character growth feels like real growth. You feel powerful against many enemies. Second, it adds a sense of danger when you challenge enemies who are higher levels. Level scaling takes away these things and makes the experience very bland for me. It makes the game lose immersion completely and reminds me that it's just a game. Every enemy is equally strong whether they are a Sith Lord or a petty criminal. For a roleplaying game, immersion is extremely important. Without it, you really aren't roleplaying - you're just playing.

That said, I understand the value of level scaling to extend the game's life. Clearly the developers need to find balance between game vs. roleplay/immersion. If they lean harder towards roleplay/immersion, it will reduce the game's life. But if you focus too much on gameplay/balance, it kills roleplay/immersion. Right now, it seems to me their priority is gameplay/balance over roleplay/immersion. Which is fine. I understand their decision since there are many players who are here to play the game rather than to roleplay and be immersed in the story/world. Also, it's the right decision as a business to extend the game's life.

I just wonder if it's possible to further tweak the level scaling so it can give people who want to roleplay/immersion a better experience. For example, extend the scaling range. Allow players to be 5 more levels above on each planet so they can feel more powerful. Or even, the ability to turn off level scaling within solo/flashpoint areas or group areas when the solo player / entire group agrees to it. Of course, their rewards will have to be adjusted accordingly so they don't use this as a cheat device. Anyway, I believe there is a way to further improve the level scaling feature. But it all depends on whether the developers care enough to give it a shot or not.

TL;RD - Public area = level scaling but extend to 3 ~ 5 levels higher. Private areas (solo/group) allow to toggle off level scaling with adjusted rewards. This solves the problem of high level players destroying everything with one shot and ruining low level player's experiences.

As someone who has played both non-level scaling vs. level scaling, I prefer non-level scaling. For one, your character growth feels like real growth. You feel powerful against many enemies. Second, it adds a sense of danger when you challenge enemies who are higher levels. Level scaling takes away these things and makes the experience very bland for me. It makes the game lose immersion completely and reminds me that it's just a game. Every enemy is equally strong whether they are a Sith Lord or a petty criminal. For a roleplaying game, immersion is extremely important. Without it, you really aren't roleplaying - you're just playing.

i have also play with both non level scaling and level scaling and a lot of players have.

do you also know the worst case problems what thanks to level scaling has fix good and its not happing any more in the game since its gone for good thanks for level scaling?

since each player most know it if there have play with both non level scaling and with level scaling what the worst case problems are back then and now are fix and gone for good.

The tl;dr version of this thread (like always)

Keep level-scaling because it gives us something to do since BW is horrible at pushing out new content to challenge us.

with the occasional: I like level scaling because reasons and everyone on SWTOR should play exactly the same way I want to because that's the only correct way.

I was against level-sync from the beginning and still am. Here are the problems/issues with it.

"With level scaling I get to run the same content over and over ad nauseum. Yay!!!!" How boring is the game when it boils down to keep killing flesh-raiders or collicoids or whatever? How many times have you and your alt ran the same Nar Shadaa heroics? You honestly don't see a problem with a game's content being based on the movie Groundhog Day?

"Level scaling saved the game." You know what else would have saved the game? More content. Real endgame. Exciting PvP. Why give BW the pass for taking the cheap and easy way out?

Stats don't work. With level scaling BW now has to hard cap mastery and power which effectively limits your freedom to build a toon. You want the bare maximum on mastery and power then stack alacrity and crit. How fun - cookie cutter toons. And it will be even worse if what I'm hearing is true that all stats will now be hard-capped to scaled level. If level scaling worked, the why does BW have to play around with stats even further?

It is inconsistent. So much for making starter planets a challenge. My iRated 306 lvl 75 easily one (or two if a silver or gold star) shot the beginning mobs without breaking a sweat. Yet at the same time a mob can knock the same toon off my mount ... whuh? I can still solo Heroic 2's with a level 50 companion without breaking a sweat and Heroic 4's with a little bit of work. So what's the point of level scaling in those cases?

Philosophical reasoning. If I make level 75, haven't I earned the right to be a level 75? If I want to one-shot a champion on Alderaan, then I should have the right to play the way I want to play. As one RPer put it in a thread, how can I be this top Jedi, Hero of the Galaxy and still get pwned by flesh raiders on Tython?

Cookie-cutter playing: When this discussion first started, there were so many sanctimonious players telling me how I wanted to play and what was fun for me in the game. Level scaling means everyone needs to play the same.

The False Narrative: The backstory you are fed isn't true. People on here talk about the days before level scaling and the farmers and the griefers and how they make the lower planets unplayable. I have been here since beta and the level of farming and griefing they talk about is simple hyperbole. I'm not going say it never happened. Yes, I have been in a group trying to organize to get The First and someone leaps in and solos him in front of us. But they didn't farm him and we simply had to wait for the respawn - annoying but par for the course in an MMO. Likewise, people were not causing huge swaths of grief mowing down beginner mobs constantly. There really is no purpose to all that as you could not get XP and the rewards were worthless for higher levels.

Delete level sync. Or go back and tune the 1-50 boss chapter boss fights to be harder, or have the instances scale to character level.

Yeah, no. I don't play this for gratuitous frustration.

Yeah, no. I don't play this for gratuitous frustration.

whoopty doo.

i don't pay for mindless , boring combat

whoopty doo.

 

i don't pay for mindless , boring combat

Eye of the beholder. I find the combat neither mindless nor boring. Occasionally frustrating, such as the aforementioned instant death attacks and excessive use of movement debuffs, but not mindless or boring.

The concept of level scaling is great. It makes the whole galaxy fun and playable.

But right now it is a bit broken:

Accuracy, Alacrity, and Crit are not scaling properly. (Perhaps other stats also). You can have 110% accuracy at level 80 and then scale down to level 25 and suddenly have 102% accuracy. That should never happen.

Companions are not scaling properly right now at all. Companions are incredibly weak now when they scale down, and that is a huge negative to fun and also makes me like/care about my companions less as they become burdens rather than awesome, helpful buddies.

I don't think level sync should be removed, but I do think it should be a choice. It should be a item you can choose to partake in or not.

you cant make it a choice since you get more problems with it then.

and really that is something we really not need any more since there have make all an big mess and problems in the 7.0 (mini) expension so to have this type mess and problems add to it its not going to help its only become worse and worse.

please read some older post's on this thread then you know it has been told all before this idea in the first place.

and second place you will learn also about the big crap mass problems and the worst hell effect's you get with it if there do something like that.

Yeah, well, with heroics and world bosses being part of endgame gearing and galactic seasons, this is definitely not happening.

Yeah I'm not sure we're playing the same game... There is literally no level 80 content. Without level scaling there would be nothing to do at level 80.

"Level scaling saved the game."

I started SWTOR over 5 months ago, so I never saw the game without level scaling. Personally, I don't think it is wise to apply story related arguments to the general working of a MMO. That breaks already at the point that everyone goes through the same stories time and again, something you wouldn't see in a more persistent world. (And creating a continuous flow of story is rocket sciene. Probably doable, but a hard problem.) Not to talk about many inconsistencies and what not from strict RP point of view. Certain things are just not really believable, if you look at them from that perspective. Personally, I wouldn't use this "background" for any MMO game mechanic related argument, because you can rip it into pieces easily and get nowhere.

In terms of overall gameplay I think the level scaling is a good principle to keep even the "low level" content engaging enough even as a high level player. I don't think I would go "saved the game" with that, but it certainly keeps the low level content a bit more interesting even as a high level, which I think is actually good.

Yes, I'm aware of the fact that there were and certainly are issues with the level scaling. However, I make a mental distinction between the principle itself and some messup in its implementation like this enforced "gimping" the OP describes and perceived myself in all its glory. And yes, I fully agree with the argument that in the end you actually need more content over time to keep things going for a larger audience, even more so if you plan on getting an increasing baseline of subscribers over time. No way around that. In fact, with level scaling implemented properly, you can make use of that and compress/add content in existing places while keeping it challenging enough for highbies. Without level scaling that option just doesn't exist.

Edit: Well, that option does exist, but then you should also be ok running as a lowbie into highbie zones on the same planet and get roflstomped. Typical oldschool MMO where you run around a corner and stumble into a boss or simply a guard who one shots you for 30k damage while you were proud of the 2k HP with the new gear you just had aquired

i agree this has to go. no one asked ofr it at the first place and the majority of the player base was highly against it.

that means more on place where the heroic's are open without a barrier a lot off strong players can bully the other players more by keep destroying the monsters there need to kill then with AOE attack's?

that bully's can keep destorying the class mission monsters you need to kill or have the item from but you cant since some people are keep destorying then for the fun off bully with AOE attacks?

that you wane do with your guild defeat the world boss but cant since strong high level gear people are defeating then solo always?

that are 3 big problems from the past that people have done since it was fun for then to bully other players with stuff like that.

so you wane have the bully problem come back more since all the old players like me that have play without the level sync system knows about that type problems and it was not fun at all and it was back then a big problem back then.

Hard no. I played the game back when there was no scaling, and it greatly limited your ability to play at your own pace. The moment you got over the max level for the planet, all of the content for that planet became redundant. There was little incentive to revisit the planet or go through all the quests or play through bonus arcs, etc. You would be able to one-kill everything. I consider myself a casual player, but that was way too boring even for me.

No, it didn't limit your ability to play at your own pace. You're more limited now because how fast you level up if you do even ONE thing outside just the class story puts you out of the level for that planet quicker than you can even reach it! None of the content on that planet is relevant to you by the time you reach the planet. The only rewards that are relevant to you might be trash drops and only because they're similarly leveled to your level. That's it. Mission rewards are exactly the same as they always were.

Aside from that, the way it used to be, you would potentially NOT level enough before you reach the next planet, so you'd have to do something else in between planets - run a flashpoint, do a few PvP matches (ground or space), do side missions, do the planetary series, in order to bring your level up to where it would match the lowest level for the next planet. By the time you left the previous planet, you'd EARNED the right to one-shot those mobs and EARNED the privilege of those mobs ignoring you, because you were too bada** for them to mess with.

I would rather be running Black Talon or farming heroics on Hoth or exploring Voss, than doing dailies on Iokath.

Again, you level too darned fast to be running Black Talon. You're locked out once you reach 15. You could always farm heroics anywhere once you reach the level for them, but before you got to EARN The right to overpower the mobs once you outleveled them. Not so anymore.

It's not perfect

It's nowhere close to perfect because it's pure stupidity to lower your level to match the planet!

...the chapters give significantly bigger rewards between lvls 61-66 I think, but not after 66, because reasons™, etc.

Nope. You've got that all wrong. When Fallen Pants happened, you were level 65 and that's where the chapters began. The rewards between 61 and 64 were these pirate looking sets from Rishi and Yavin 4 and weren't "significantly bigger rewards" in the least. Back then, we had either Data Crystals or Commendations, I don't remember which, to turn in for gear, both as we leveled up and at endgame.

When they released 4.0, they made this change to level scaling for the planets and brought in gear boxes that gave blue pieces of gear for the heroics and they removed the Crystals or Commendations (whichever it was by then). The gear you get in the Supplies section at that point was obtained using credits, except for endgame gear, they had yet another system in place for that (tokens...).

By level 66, you were supposed to be close to hitting Odessen, if not already there. Once on Odessen, you have these non-companion contacts who need special boxes to gain influence with them. You had to have a way to earn them. At level 66 you begin earning them through heroics instead of getting gear boxes. These lockboxes are also used for the Star Fortress companions.

Those are the "reasons™" and not one of them was a good one. Commendations and Data Crystals were just fine. Outleveling planets was just fine. What's not just fine is being level 80 with level 80 skills and being beat on by a level 2 mob on Tython because that little bitty level 2 mob thinks he's the...stuff. SMH...