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Apex update

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csilvajonas's Avatar


csilvajonas
05.02.2021 , 09:38 AM | #51
Quote: Originally Posted by AlexIonutPlay View Post
In case you people didn't notice, the boss had a mechanic in burn to avoid kiting, they just added a new one for the entire fight. For a nightmare/master mode fight, you need to make some dps/healing checks and have some brain to follow some mechanics and make your own strat, especially for last boss, making/using flares and keeping track of Darkness Overdrive is also part of the fight. You are telling me that the fight is not boring with kiting strat, and its boring when you are doing mechanics, ok, seems logic.

Everybody comes here with random things like, why u changed this instead of that, how about you ask the devs when are they gonna change this and that as well instead of asking why they changed this now.
When people bug the timer they are also creative I guess and game is not boring anymore.
Not sure if i understood everything you said, english is not my first language and sometimes i may miss something. But as far as i could understand, you're asking why instead of asking for one change, why not ask for them to change it all, is that right? i agree with that Cola, you're making a lot of sense. My issue with bioware is that we have a lot of issues on old ops and the lack of new content when it comes to raiding is just disturbing. If they wanna make a fight harder and remove something they think is making the fight too easy, they should go for it. And not stop with Apex. I see a lot of issue, which i've already posted before, on how they treat the raiding community. Why not make a deal and release one new ops each year? Why not scale all ops to 75? it's been more than a year now. Why did they even kept it on 70 in the first place? I'm just repeating myself at this point, but it's so frustrating to see only small updates every now and then related to operations. Imagine they release a new ops by the end of this year. Well, the next one will probably come in 2024. Old raid teams will come and play it, clear it in a few months and then just move on until 2024. Now imagine if swtor gets a new ops every 6 months? Sounds like a good game to me, but now i'm just dreaming

RikuvonDrake's Avatar


RikuvonDrake
05.02.2021 , 03:17 PM | #52
Quote: Originally Posted by csilvajonas View Post
Sounds like a good game to me, but now i'm just dreaming
resources aren't always infinite, its most likely a contributing factor to why "old" content isn't fixed either, along with lack of incentives, complicated 6 year old code and very few actually care

Bloodworthy - Tomb of Freedon Nadd - The Red Eclipse - Darth Malgus

Saga - FriendlyFire - Mango

dready_tv's Avatar


dready_tv
05.02.2021 , 04:05 PM | #53
So much baby crying just cuz doing mechanics as intended is hard then brings up irrelevant/illogical things to try & make points, very nice! Quite amusing ngl

csilvajonas's Avatar


csilvajonas
05.02.2021 , 09:01 PM | #54
Quote: Originally Posted by dready_tv View Post
So much baby crying just cuz doing mechanics as intended is hard then brings up irrelevant/illogical things to try & make points, very nice! Quite amusing ngl
Much logic, such arguments, wow

csilvajonas's Avatar


csilvajonas
05.02.2021 , 09:07 PM | #55
Quote: Originally Posted by RikuvonDrake View Post
resources aren't always infinite, its most likely a contributing factor to why "old" content isn't fixed either, along with lack of incentives, complicated 6 year old code and very few actually5 care
Yeah, this i know... It's sad tbh, swtor has so much potential. Even with everything that is broken in game or the lack of new content, it's still a great game to play. Some people on this thread seem to misundertand my point, i never complained because a fight got harder. I can do both tactics fine, it was just fun doing the kiting strategy. But dxun is an easy operation, it's more like scum and villany level. Both even have a boring last boss. People come here saying "oh, imagine doing tactics". Well, i do. It's a long and boring fight. Unless i'm doing the battery, everything else on that fight is repeating the same stuff for 12 long minutes

GhOsTPrOz's Avatar


GhOsTPrOz
05.18.2021 , 12:18 AM | #56
Kind of funny to see a lot of the people here telling others to stop crying about this or that, considering all of you, and you know who you are, used some kind of exploit along the way, such as the in my opinion much more egregious act of "bugging" venom. It is pretty clear in kill videos if a group did this or not so dont try to hide it.

Not that anyone asked or gives a care but here's my thoughts on the matter -

My team has been working on Apex for probably 4 months or so, we were all in agreement that we wouldnt intentionally do any "bugs" such as the venom bug etc, we wanted a legit clear, after some time people suggest kite strat and I was somewhat against it because it seemed chaotic and I feared that Bioware would handle it the way they did, and screw us over which they have. Previously with using Kite strat we got the boss to 42% Now after about 5 or 6 raids we have managed to get the boss to about 65% once or twice but most times we wipe around 70+ still. Its a major setback, instead of probably clearing in 1-2 months we will probably need even longer than that now.

While I can agree with the section of the community who says the fight is fine with either strat, I also dont mind them removing it had they done it correctly, you dont simply remove a strategy 10 months into it, come out and say hey we dont like this strat, we are going to remove it in 7.0 or in 6.5 or whatever, give a little more warning, allow groups to choose to try to finish it out that way or adjust. At the very least they should have taken away clears, timers, achievements, titles etc, How is it fair that there are people walking around with mounts, titles, etc gotten purely because they used the kite strat, and they get 0 punishment for that? They used the same "trivialized" method that my team and many others are, the only difference is they got away with it before big bad bioware came to stop it. So nothing happens to them? I'd be less inclined to feel salty about this situation if I felt like it was executed fairly. Be fun to see how many of you on here talking big saying things like "get good" or "find a new strat lul" would be whining and complaining too if your titles and rewards got taken away too because lets face it we all know you did the strat a few times too, or exploited somewhere along the lines.

TLDR - Yall hypocrits, this community is toxic, Bioware needs to either be quicker or have more tact when making a change like this and anyone who did the strat deserves to have cheevos and rewards stripped.
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<It's A Trap> Darth Malgus
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Free stuff - http://www.swtor.com/r/XsKLPx

Soogz's Avatar


Soogz
05.18.2021 , 08:56 AM | #57
Tragic Zero.


Quote: Originally Posted by GhOsTPrOz View Post
Kind of funny to see a lot of the people here telling others to stop crying about this or that, considering all of you, and you know who you are, used some kind of exploit along the way, such as the in my opinion much more egregious act of "bugging" venom. It is pretty clear in kill videos if a group did this or not so dont try to hide it.

Not that anyone asked or gives a care but here's my thoughts on the matter -

My team has been working on Apex for probably 4 months or so, we were all in agreement that we wouldnt intentionally do any "bugs" such as the venom bug etc, we wanted a legit clear, after some time people suggest kite strat and I was somewhat against it because it seemed chaotic and I feared that Bioware would handle it the way they did, and screw us over which they have. Previously with using Kite strat we got the boss to 42% Now after about 5 or 6 raids we have managed to get the boss to about 65% once or twice but most times we wipe around 70+ still. Its a major setback, instead of probably clearing in 1-2 months we will probably need even longer than that now.

While I can agree with the section of the community who says the fight is fine with either strat, I also dont mind them removing it had they done it correctly, you dont simply remove a strategy 10 months into it, come out and say hey we dont like this strat, we are going to remove it in 7.0 or in 6.5 or whatever, give a little more warning, allow groups to choose to try to finish it out that way or adjust. At the very least they should have taken away clears, timers, achievements, titles etc, How is it fair that there are people walking around with mounts, titles, etc gotten purely because they used the kite strat, and they get 0 punishment for that? They used the same "trivialized" method that my team and many others are, the only difference is they got away with it before big bad bioware came to stop it. So nothing happens to them? I'd be less inclined to feel salty about this situation if I felt like it was executed fairly. Be fun to see how many of you on here talking big saying things like "get good" or "find a new strat lul" would be whining and complaining too if your titles and rewards got taken away too because lets face it we all know you did the strat a few times too, or exploited somewhere along the lines.

TLDR - Yall hypocrits, this community is toxic, Bioware needs to either be quicker or have more tact when making a change like this and anyone who did the strat deserves to have cheevos and rewards stripped.

lukrlrrr's Avatar


lukrlrrr
05.18.2021 , 09:03 AM | #58
Quote: Originally Posted by GhOsTPrOz View Post
Kind of funny to see a lot of the people here telling others to stop crying about this or that, considering all of you, and you know who you are, used some kind of exploit along the way, such as the in my opinion much more egregious act of "bugging" venom. It is pretty clear in kill videos if a group did this or not so dont try to hide it.

Not that anyone asked or gives a care but here's my thoughts on the matter -

My team has been working on Apex for probably 4 months or so, we were all in agreement that we wouldnt intentionally do any "bugs" such as the venom bug etc, we wanted a legit clear, after some time people suggest kite strat and I was somewhat against it because it seemed chaotic and I feared that Bioware would handle it the way they did, and screw us over which they have. Previously with using Kite strat we got the boss to 42% Now after about 5 or 6 raids we have managed to get the boss to about 65% once or twice but most times we wipe around 70+ still. Its a major setback, instead of probably clearing in 1-2 months we will probably need even longer than that now.

While I can agree with the section of the community who says the fight is fine with either strat, I also dont mind them removing it had they done it correctly, you dont simply remove a strategy 10 months into it, come out and say hey we dont like this strat, we are going to remove it in 7.0 or in 6.5 or whatever, give a little more warning, allow groups to choose to try to finish it out that way or adjust. At the very least they should have taken away clears, timers, achievements, titles etc, How is it fair that there are people walking around with mounts, titles, etc gotten purely because they used the kite strat, and they get 0 punishment for that? They used the same "trivialized" method that my team and many others are, the only difference is they got away with it before big bad bioware came to stop it. So nothing happens to them? I'd be less inclined to feel salty about this situation if I felt like it was executed fairly. Be fun to see how many of you on here talking big saying things like "get good" or "find a new strat lul" would be whining and complaining too if your titles and rewards got taken away too because lets face it we all know you did the strat a few times too, or exploited somewhere along the lines.

TLDR - Yall hypocrits, this community is toxic, Bioware needs to either be quicker or have more tact when making a change like this and anyone who did the strat deserves to have cheevos and rewards stripped.
meme

AMAirlines's Avatar


AMAirlines
05.18.2021 , 10:46 AM | #59
I can't remember if I weighed in or not on this thread so far, but a group I'm part of made this strat after clearing normally. I'm also the one who reported it to the devs later down the line. I agree that the strat is a bit absurd and makes the fight far too easy, but we can't ignore the fact that other fights have cheeses just like this. After doing the fight normally for the first time in a few months, it wasn't too difficult to fall back into the strat. Took us a little over 1 raid night to do the clear, and that was with my co-tank learning how to do it. At least for us, the change wasn't really effective anyways.

Going on what Zoomz said about revoking achievements/titles/timed runs, I've heard this before. It's impossible to tell who used kite and who didn't through the eyes of the devs, so we'd likely end up in a situation similar to the SNV exploit where the people who were affected by the crest loss were random rather than the ones who did it.
Presrjur (sin/jugg/pt dps/tank) - 37/37 NiM Completion 7/7 timed



A creator and destroyer of kite strat
<Ordinance>

AwesomeTacoCat's Avatar


AwesomeTacoCat
05.23.2021 , 12:26 PM | #60
Quote: Originally Posted by AMAirlines View Post
I agree that the strat is a bit absurd and makes the fight far too easy, but we can't ignore the fact that other fights have cheeses just like this. After doing the fight normally for the first time in a few months, it wasn't too difficult to fall back into the strat. Took us a little over 1 raid night to do the clear, and that was with my co-tank learning how to do it. At least for us, the change wasn't really effective anyways.
I think an overwhelming majority of players (and even players in the nim community) disagree that kite strat made the fight "absurdly easy". Even with kite strat in the game for 10 MONTHS, how many teams have actually killed apex? Maybe 20 or 30? On my server, I think it's...5? And of those teams, it's important to note that there's tons of overlap between teams so it's certainly fewer than 200 players that have killed apex at this point I'd guess. I hear all this hyperbole out there that "kite strat meant everyone and their mother could kill apex". But in actuality that's pretty far from true. Even with kite strat, you needed a competent team who could push solid numbers while constantly running around and doing a slightly reduce set of mechs. Is it easier than "normal" strat? Yes, absolutely. Is it easy? No, even with kite strat it's probably the...3rd hardest fight in the game?

What so many people in the nim community fail to recognize is that the right tail of the skill distribution in this game is absolutely massive. Failure cleared Dxun Arrow in what, 2 weeks? Many nim raid teams that are probably better than 99% of the players in the game still haven't cleared huntmaster even after consistent prog for 10 months. And catering content such that only a hundred or so players can clear it within about a year in my view is stupid.

Finally, changing the rules of the game, so to speak, 10 months into the operation is just flat out egregious. Many teams were enjoying the challenge of the kite strat (and yes, I'm sure some try-hard elitists will come along and say that kite strat wasn't a challenge, but feel free to read my second paragraph maybe 3 or 4 times and do your gosh-darned hardest to refrain from a 'git-gud' troll post) so why take that away so that a small minority feels slightly more self-righteous about their clears?