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Endgame Raiding isn't fun right now and it's killing my Raid Group


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So to start this off, my raid group raided A LOT in 6.0. We would raid 3 hours a day on Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday, and during the last 2 months of 6.0 we raided almost every day in order to push and kill NiM Apex Vanguard before the patch dropped. We got it with two days left, and everyone was pretty hyped, killing one of, if not the hardest boss in the game. We planned on getting back into it and maybe going for Gods or Dxun timer once we regeared and relearned our classes. Now though, the scaling is so disastrous that even the legacy ops are barely clearable. I don't even think that NiM Gods or Dxun have been recleared by the best team on our server. Two of our DPS can't play their main class because the classes literally don't perform well enough to clear some of the bosses. SO now we're down to two days and 2 hours each day, and we're pretty much only running to hang out with each other, because we're certainly not doing it for the thrill of clearing HMs and occasional legacy NiMs. Our entire raiding guild is losing people too. Everyone's still hanging out in Discord, but if you log into the game outside raid hours? Maybe two people are online, if that. If something isn't done, everyone's literally just gonna leave, and it's sad, because everyone still enjoys the game, but not like this. That's my rant, if you want to call it that, more just me being sad that the game's gotten so awful so quickly, and Bioware hasn't even given a hint that they care. Edited by HamadKyron
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Yea, not every OP has been cleared. Gods is at 2/5 afaik, legacy OPs are still... easy enough to clear it with a raid team, granted it killed nim pugs completely. I like that you have to do the mechanics on most bosses properly, like actually properly not just some variation that works because of bosses being too easy. Many raiders have been raid logging for years already, it's not really that different - at least I haven't noticed a difference. But yeah, they are probably overtuned right now, but over the life of the expansion you will get stronger and content will be easier the further an expansion moves, it's the usual lifecycle that got yeeted and deleted with 6.0 and VE stacks, that is why you didn't notice it then.

 

I was ALWAYS against them scaling the operations, and it seemed like I was the only one. Nobody wanted to listen, they said I was wrong and here we are. I enjoy it, but I see how 95% of the nim raiding community do not.

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But yeah, they are probably overtuned right now, but over the life of the expansion you will get stronger and content will be easier the further an expansion moves, it's the usual lifecycle that got yeeted and deleted with 6.0 and VE stacks, that is why you didn't notice it then.

 

Well that's the thing, it doesn't matter if the stuff gets easier in a couple months after they release R4 if my whole team moves to FF14 or something in the next couple of weeks. People don't stick around on the promise of "Oh don't worry, this is how expansions go, we'll let you go back to progging the content you were on last expansion eventually". It's not like they gave us any new content to do either, because they forgot to release the actual expansion with this expansion, so R4 still isn't out, and everyone's just sitting twiddling their thumbs with gear that's undertuned compared to what we should have because the best gear isn't in the game yet. Yeah, we can clear legacies, but we cleared legacies about 100 times each last expansion, if not more, and it's just sad. Can only do it so many times before you want to do something else.

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Yeah, you guys speaks from position of heavy experienced team, which managed to kill last bosses in legacy nims. But, to be fair, it is just... 10% of nightmare raiding community? Even less? My team got Trandoshians on Nim and made few days on Huntmaster, and 7.0 came.. and now we cant kill manifestation in SnV on Styrak with 4 Damage Dealers. IR, with which you just cant do what you did with START gear in 6.0? Like, what?

 

You started to raid 2 days 2 hours. I managed to keep group somehow with replacements and such, but 80% of my friends who did nim raids just quit the game for the better times. In those players, BioWare, you just loose your subscribers. You promised us "we will be so powerful so we no need nightmare crystals", and we received DPS checks descent progression team cant pass.

 

It is obvious what's going on, the difficulty level just got insanely increased, with no reason, and I guess, just by mistakes or because of holding on 12th grade augments and better gear. But again, honestly, BW, if you would wait with fixing balance, you just get rid your raiding public into another games completely. Because, no one wants to play hard modes when we used to progress Dxun or Gods nims

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My thought is that nim raiding should be hard and punishing if something isn't executed properly.

But since 7.0 it comes down to that situations where you have near to zero counterplay. SOmething like Ult Hunter or Greus Dive bombs that literally melting the healers without aoe dr. The Dtps in most of the Raids are so high because everything is hitting super hard and here is the problem for me. I really have no problems in reprogressing things but it has to be rewarding and constant. Now in 7.0 we don't really have that constant Progress because a intended mechanic is hitting so hard that it consults in a raid wipe, and this is happening quite often. But don't get me wrong 6.0 was to easy, with many mistakes not beeing punished or even ignored. But it can't be the intended solution to increase the dtps income at a rate where normal mechanics are oneshotting people or nearly oneshot. To kill something is in many situations luck and luck can't be intended.

 

To the gear progress argument. Its been nearly 4 months now where literally nothing happened.. We aren't getting any new augments or gear and we are literally sitting on useless 6.0 medpacs, stims and adrenals. Something has to be done in the next month because many nim raiders are already leaving the game and it gets harder and harder to find willing people.

(And something i really want to see is 16man Operations on the current state LUL)

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raids are harder now than in the last expansion i don't think anyone denies that, on the other hand, you will get several new tiers (at least up to 340) of upgrades throughout the 7.0 expansions while the content difficulty will stay the same. for players that might not have been able to clear it even late into 6.0 it will deffo be a quite the challenge now, if its any solace it will be a lot easier now

 

for the groups that are struggling there isn't really any easy solution outside of getting better, content is clearly clearable so all you need is just players to improve their performance, execute mechanics better and deal with the changes if its relevant (mainly the loss of aoe dr for healers) for the classes you play, things players doing nim shouldn't have too much issues with. if players rather not work on improving, which is fine this is an online game after all, you just gotta wait to outgear content with the first step being 334 from R4 HM in the next large patch

Edited by RikuvonDrake
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raids are harder now than in the last expansion i don't think anyone denies that, on the other hand, you will get several new tiers (at least up to 340) of upgrades throughout the 7.0 expansions while the content difficulty will stay the same. for players that might not have been able to clear it even late into 6.0 it will deffo be a quite the challenge now, if its any solace it will be a lot easier now

 

for the groups that are struggling there isn't really any easy solution outside of getting better, content is clearly clearable so all you need is just players to improve their performance, execute mechanics better and deal with the changes if its relevant (mainly the loss of aoe dr for healers) for the classes you play, things players doing nim shouldn't have too much issues with. if players rather not work on improving, which is fine this is an online game after all, you just gotta wait to outgear content with the first step being 334 from R4 HM in the next large patch

 

 

You really think 340 gear will change something like A&E lasers oneshotting healers or even dps? I dont get it :D And i don't see that gods is clearly killable with only tyth and a&e beeing killed atm. And the kill on a&e was more luck than skill. This has to change because its nothing where you need "skill" or "improving performance" sry. Im more a friend of that 5.x state of gameplay (And im not speaking about 5.10 because that was oviously a joke) or smth like that, with high dps checks and decent healer checks. Right now its only spamming special classes or playing around mechanics that shouldn't hit that hard ... and the obvious.. playing with operative because its mandatory.

But maybe its a matter of taste dunno.

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raids are harder now than in the last expansion i don't think anyone denies that, on the other hand, you will get several new tiers (at least up to 340) of upgrades throughout the 7.0 expansions while the content difficulty will stay the same. for players that might not have been able to clear it even late into 6.0 it will deffo be a quite the challenge now, if its any solace it will be a lot easier now

 

for the groups that are struggling there isn't really any easy solution outside of getting better, content is clearly clearable so all you need is just players to improve their performance, execute mechanics better and deal with the changes if its relevant (mainly the loss of aoe dr for healers) for the classes you play, things players doing nim shouldn't have too much issues with. if players rather not work on improving, which is fine this is an online game after all, you just gotta wait to outgear content with the first step being 334 from R4 HM in the next large patch

 

Man oh man, it's 2022 and Bioware is still upscaling old content (Black Talon and Eternity Vault still relevant lmao) and calling it new content ... why am I cursed to keep returning to this content-forsaken game? :D

 

It's also sweet you keep referring to nightmare mode ... I am also so old in this game I keep calling master mode NiM ^^

 

Truth be told, WoW Classic spoiled me a bit, SWTOR raiding in 7.0 is kind of refreshingly hard, I sure hope Blizzard won't release Wotlk classic soon, would like to see some master modes first (Dxun looks nice, and it's from KOTOR!).

 

P.S. Totally need your help regarding Steam achievements for KOTFE and KOTET master mode *wink wink

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Tbh 6.0 spoiled new raiders, it was too easy. They never learned to improve because it was good enough, now that it is not anymore they have the rewards etc. so they think they should reclear it again, obviously it's frustrating when you can't clear it anymore. I 100% agree with content being the hardest at the release of an expansion because you are not overgeared yet, otherwise after a few patch iterations content would be too easy again - BUT in my opinion you can agree with this mentality and also agree that content is too hard atm.

 

Overall though... 3 bosses haven't been killed yet. I honestly expected worse, it's not that easy to rescale all content - they tried before with denova, they forgot to change drouks HP - they only scaled the little guy at the end, they forgot to scale up the HP of the shields on tanks fight and they just died after 1 hit from the boss aoe... Sure it's PTS but it made me realize that you can't just eyeball the HP and DMG and be like "ah yes 4x is a nice number let's do that" :p

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Not that anyone needed an update, but my group’s moved to Final Fantasy. A lot of other people we raid with swapped too. So that’s that, subs are cancelled, maybe we’ll be back when R4 comes out, but now that I’ve seen the sheer amount of raid content that Final Fantasy has available, it’s probably too little too late.
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  • 2 weeks later...
sheer amount of raid content that Final Fantasy has available

 

And class balance (among other things.)

 

I've primarily been a Seer Sage on Pubside and an Annihilation Marauder on Impside. I wanted to try something new in 7.0. I felt like playing different classes and different characters. So I opted to main a Combat Sentinel and an Arsenal Mercenary. And then I find out, one after the other, that they are both terrible right now? Ugh.

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The entire NiM raiding community on Satele Shan, which was quite active throughout 6.x, has almost completely dissolved. This is the story of most higher end raid groups, it’s kinda incredible how quickly they killed off raid teams with this expansion. Like even without new content. if content was scaled just like it was in 6.x prior to 7.0, I guarantee there would be like 5x as many raid teams running.

 

C’est la via I guess…

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  • 3 weeks later...

This is a "Cash Shop Game" They don't care about "us" Raid Nerds. Their target audience is the "fast food gamer".

 

They come to look at the new stuff, buy a thing here or there, and leave. Join - leave - repeat - thats how pople move from one MMORPG to another MMORPG. People are not intended to "stick around"

 

AAA Games aren't made for gamers anymore - they are made for main stream people... face it...

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