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The changes you all hate are the reason I'm coming back to the game


alucinorm

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Just what are you playing this game for, alucinom? You mentioned that you don't want to break "immersion," but that is all that you have said about your play style except that you prefer ability choices to be Spartan. It is unsurprising that you mentioned that you no longer do group content. No one these days wants to take an hour+ to clear Hammer Station or any of the other early FPs unless they're fresh to the game and its their first handful of playthroughs.

 

How many powers do you want to use in your optimal rotation? You do know that the game will permit you to use but a single action bar, right? The UI is very customizable. You might want to look into it. Just hit Escape and then click on Preferences to open it up.

 

Games cannot "evolve with the times." Computer code is static, and it can only be changed or improved if there is a will and a sufficient budget to do so within the company that owns the program. How often do you want the game to "evolve?" The development of this game at lanuch cost several hundred million dollars. How often to you want to see millions of dollars spent on change for the sake of change to support your "current year" nonsense?

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From the point of view of one recently returned player I gotta say I am glad they are looking at reducing the number of abilities. I can appreciate that not everyone feels this way but from my own perspective I feel like the average player should have something like 12 to 24 active abilities. My personal preference is closer to around 12 or 15ish, but any more than 24 just seems like unnecessary bloat. But that's just my two credit's worth.
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From the point of view of one recently returned player I gotta say I am glad they are looking at reducing the number of abilities. I can appreciate that not everyone feels this way but from my own perspective I feel like the average player should have something like 12 to 24 active abilities. My personal preference is closer to around 12 or 15ish, but any more than 24 just seems like unnecessary bloat. But that's just my two credit's worth.

 

You don't get 30+ buttons to put on your toolbar when you're 1st level.

 

Even if you have 30+ buttons on your toolbar you can remove buttons you don't want to use more easily and more painlessly to others by just deleting them from your UI? Having BW delete them for you means no one else can use them either, right? BW removing abilities -and- BW rebalancing the game around everyone having less abilities is going to cause massive issues. Game's like this are often played by some people for years, why hurt them just for players that may or may not decide to come back for a few weeks every year or three (or ten)? I'm not meaning to target you, I don't want you to feel like I'm attacking you personally, but if your expressed sentiment was really the motivation behind these nerfs it seems extremely short-sighted.

Edited by Savej
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You don't get 30+ buttons to put on your toolbar when you're 1st level.

 

I am not sure what being level 1 has to do with my post, I'm simply stating my opinion an the number of abilities characters have at max level. To me, 30+ abilities at max level or (any level) is redundant and unnecessary. My thoughts are there is nothing that you can execute with 30+ action abilities that you cannot do with 24 or less. This is just my personal opinion though, so YMMV.

 

Even if you have 30+ buttons on your toolbar you can remove buttons you don't want to use more easily and more painlessly to others by just deleting them from your UI? Having BW delete them for you means no one else can use them either, right?

 

This is correct. Everyone is capable of removing as many actionbars and abilities as they please. I am fairly certain you could probably clear all the story lines and most of the FP's iin the game by just setting your companion to Healer and pressing 1 skill repeatedly, though it doesn't really sound like much fun. But someone else may enjoy that type of simplicity. I can't say, I don't try to tell other people how they should enjoy the game only how I like to enjoy it.

 

BW removing abilities -and- BW rebalancing the game around everyone having less abilities is going to cause massive issues.

 

It may. It could be a horrible disaster, or it may be a rousing success. I couldn't say for sure, so I don't try to speculate.

 

Game's like this are often played by some people for years, why hurt them just for players that may or may not decide to come back for a few weeks every year or three (or ten)?

 

My guess, and it’s only a guess, is that someone at BW feels like characters have too many abilities and expanding them further is not the best way to progress the game. They are trying something new with the introduction of Combat Styles and maybe they feel like taking a "less is more" approach is what the game needs. Or maybe they just don't wanna do the code-work of flip-flopping so many abilities around for every single character? I honestly don't know. I don't work for BW.

 

I'm not meaning to target you, I don't want you to feel like I'm attacking you personally

 

No worries, I don't take a disagreement of opinions as an attack. People are allowed to disagree, it's not personal, just a difference of opinion.

 

if your expressed sentiment was really the motivation behind these nerfs it seems extremely short-sighted.

 

Like I said, I can't say for certain what BW's motivation is for the changes. The only opinion I am expressing is that I don't mind the reduction of abilities. Nothing more, nothing less.

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Here we thought PTS was used to prevent disasters, but at the rate they are releasing partial examples of the newly dubbed combat styles, there is not going to be sufficient time to even do this "high-level overview" nonsense for each of them. It would have been far more logical for them to release the two most popular spec classes for us to take for a spin from lvls 1-80. I have never before seen them handle testing in such a poorly conceived fashion--to dribble stuff out at such an anemic rate is a poor move considering December will be here before we know it.
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Just what are you playing this game for, alucinom? You mentioned that you don't want to break "immersion," but that is all that you have said about your play style except that you prefer ability choices to be Spartan. It is unsurprising that you mentioned that you no longer do group content. No one these days wants to take an hour+ to clear Hammer Station or any of the other early FPs unless they're fresh to the game and its their first handful of playthroughs.

 

How many powers do you want to use in your optimal rotation? You do know that the game will permit you to use but a single action bar, right? The UI is very customizable. You might want to look into it. Just hit Escape and then click on Preferences to open it up.

 

Games cannot "evolve with the times." Computer code is static, and it can only be changed or improved if there is a will and a sufficient budget to do so within the company that owns the program. How often do you want the game to "evolve?" The development of this game at lanuch cost several hundred million dollars. How often to you want to see millions of dollars spent on change for the sake of change to support your "current year" nonsense?

 

My UI is highly customized my dude, every skill is keybound, I have a rzer orbweaver and logitech g600 mouse, I can handle stuff just fine. Again you're making assumptions like most people here that a different preference means stupidity or ignorance.

 

you're just mad I don't have the same opinion as you and you want desperately for it to be invalid so there will be no risk to your preference. Your assumptions about costs to spruce up combat are incorrect, other MMOs do it all the time.

 

But maybe you're right, previous reworks have been very hit and miss for bioware. Hate the most recent vanguard, the removal of mid range and channeled powers, lame.

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Here we thought PTS was used to prevent disasters, but at the rate they are releasing partial examples of the newly dubbed combat styles, there is not going to be sufficient time to even do this "high-level overview" nonsense for each of them. It would have been far more logical for them to release the two most popular spec classes for us to take for a spin from lvls 1-80. I have never before seen them handle testing in such a poorly conceived fashion--to dribble stuff out at such an anemic rate is a poor move considering December will be here before we know it.

 

I’m a bit concerned that we still haven’t got another PTS version to test yet and it’s nearly the end of this working week. I’ve asked Jackie in another thread if they know when there will be another version to test, but still haven’t heard.

 

If they expect us to test the PTS with this schedule, there is no way they’ll have this half done and rebalance all the content by December release.

 

Edited : to retract a statement.

 

I think we should all be prepared that none of the feedback is going to change Bioware’s mind.

Edited by TrixxieTriss
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I’m also concerned that they’ve gone completely silent again since the bad feed back. .

 

uhhh, you might want to re-think some of your words---> https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=9963985#edit9963985

 

Sorta surprising that someone like you, who always feels so compelled to post so often, didn't notice the 'Dev Tracker' from today. /shrug

Edited by Nee-Elder
adjusted a couple words since Trixxie is ULTRA-sensitive ( p.s. i hightly doubt the "wife" she always posts about is real lol )
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uhhh, you might want to re-think some of your words---> https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=9963985#edit9963985

 

Sorta surprising that someone like you, who always feels so compelled to post so often, didn't notice the 'Dev Tracker' from today. /shrug

 

I missed that cause my dev page didn’t update (I have swtor 5 pages open). So l need to retract the part about not communicating. I’m glad I was wrong on that front. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Edited by TrixxieTriss
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(I have swtor 5 pages open).

 

i sometimes wish we could not only get more (or any lol) BioWare 'metrics' from the game, but also from the Forums. (like how many subscribing accounts just browse vs. actual posting, for example)

 

So l need to retract the part about [bioWare] not communicating. I’m glad I was wrong on that front. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

No worries. Let's hope maybe something else gets posted today Friday too.... :sy_inventory:

 

*EDIT UPDATE* ... Thank the maker, my calls to :ph_use_the_force: have worked!!! --> https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=9964102#post9964102 :D

Edited by Nee-Elder
thanks JackieKo for making my *use the FORCE* hopes come true lol ... /bow
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I am not sure what being level 1 has to do with my post, I'm simply stating my opinion an the number of abilities characters have at max level. To me, 30+ abilities at max level or (any level) is redundant and unnecessary. My thoughts are there is nothing that you can execute with 30+ action abilities that you cannot do with 24 or less. This is just my personal opinion though, so YMMV.

 

First, people learning the game start at level 1. If you're relearning the game, start at level 1. 25+ abilities really aren't hard to manage with a bit of practice unless you have physical handicaps worse than mine.

 

From my own experience on the current PTS, there's -a lot- my guardian or sentinel can do on live vs what they can do with the buttons they are left with on test. Nothing that's been removed was "redundant", there are just holes in their capabilities.

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Greetings!

 

I resubbed earlier than planned just to make this post. I need to state right away that I recognize opinions are valid even if I disagree with them, it's about what type of gameplay you enjoy and I respect that. However, it's very clear that many many individuals don't see that, they write arrogantly as if their opinion is the only one that matters and is 'obvious' and 'objective'.

 

I feel the need to come here and show it's not that black and white, it's not a bunch of devs doing crazy things and taking your abilities away - there are actually gamers out there that this caters to and I'm one of them. Once again this is opinion it's not meant to convince you or say you're wrong, I'm only posting so you will see there are those of us who feel differently. I've spent thousands on this game and I'm coming back because of these changes or overall the strategic goal behind the changes.[/quote[

Okay, let's explore this.

 

Enure and force freeze (or whatever it's called) are incredibly boring skills. These are relics of MMOs past, they only feel impactful in certain content (which everyone seems to forget can be rebalanced) and aren't conducive to fantasy at all. They were only added because other MMOs had similar skills. Thank god I won't have to use them any more just to pass certain content, instead I could just go saber reflect which actually feels impactful and fits the fantasy.

1.) you dont' HAVE to use them now.

2.) they're both still here under loadout B of the guardian PTS.

 

Clearly so many of you see this as vital because you look at it in the context of current balance, you like to click lots of things and again i can respect that. I however want to be a Jedi, I want abilities to be flashy and support my class fantasy not just reduce damage taken by a % in a rotation vs a boss.

I agree. I want to be able to throw a lightsaber at something (wait, they removed saber throw, damn), blitz through swinging like a madman (wait, they removed that too), hold up my lightsaber and reflect my enemy's attacks back at them (wait, that's gone too).

 

But don't worry, we kept the two abilities that you yourself said felt like 'bloat' so we could give up all the cool stuff.

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First, people learning the game start at level 1. If you're relearning the game, start at level 1. 25+ abilities really aren't hard to manage with a bit of practice unless you have physical handicaps worse than mine.

 

From my own experience on the current PTS, there's -a lot- my guardian or sentinel can do on live vs what they can do with the buttons they are left with on test. Nothing that's been removed was "redundant", there are just holes in their capabilities.

 

Still not talking about level 1 characters, still don't know where you're getting this from. This is not a l2p issue, this is a statement of personal gameplay preferences. You don't share the same preferences, that's fine. I get it. I am not asking anyone to change their point of view.

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Greetings!

 

I resubbed earlier than planned just to make this post. I need to state right away that I recognize opinions are valid even if I disagree with them, it's about what type of gameplay you enjoy and I respect that. However, it's very clear that many many individuals don't see that, they write arrogantly as if their opinion is the only one that matters and is 'obvious' and 'objective'.

 

I feel the need to come here and show it's not that black and white, it's not a bunch of devs doing crazy things and taking your abilities away - there are actually gamers out there that this caters to and I'm one of them. Once again this is opinion it's not meant to convince you or say you're wrong, I'm only posting so you will see there are those of us who feel differently. I've spent thousands on this game and I'm coming back because of these changes or overall the strategic goal behind the changes.[/quote[

Okay, let's explore this.

 

 

1.) you dont' HAVE to use them now.

2.) they're both still here under loadout B of the guardian PTS.

 

 

I agree. I want to be able to throw a lightsaber at something (wait, they removed saber throw, damn), blitz through swinging like a madman (wait, they removed that too), hold up my lightsaber and reflect my enemy's attacks back at them (wait, that's gone too).

 

But don't worry, we kept the two abilities that you yourself said felt like 'bloat' so we could give up all the cool stuff.

 

So you're saying they are making dumb decisions within their intended plan, thus making no one happy. Well good point sir, I guess if they stick to that then no one will play the game anymore.

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So you're saying they are making dumb decisions within their intended plan, thus making no one happy. Well good point sir, I guess if they stick to that then no one will play the game anymore.

Why not? They've done it before.

 

I see that they are making people choose between skills that are loved and keeping a bunch that people don't really care about (that much). The two in question (enure and force freeze) can go for all I care. They can completely disappear, but no they're still there. In my view the ability pruning by itself is not the problem, but as usual with BW, they WAY they are doing the pruning.

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Why not? They've done it before.

 

I see that they are making people choose between skills that are loved and keeping a bunch that people don't really care about (that much). The two in question (enure and force freeze) can go for all I care. They can completely disappear, but no they're still there. In my view the ability pruning by itself is not the problem, but as usual with BW, they WAY they are doing the pruning.

 

Egad !! we agree twice in the same day !!

 

:eek::eek:

 

looks left and right to see what's coming next !

Edited by OlBuzzard
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So you're saying they are making dumb decisions within their intended plan, thus making no one happy. Well good point sir, I guess if they stick to that then no one will play the game anymore.

 

It’s not the first time they’ve done this. If you’d play the game non stop since development you would know this is often a theme that Bioware repeat.

Which is why many of us long term players have learnt to be careful what you wish for cause BioWare nearly always misinterpret it in their execution.

Even though you can be as black and white in your request or feed back, BioWare often only hear the part they like and then twist it to fit their vision, not players desires.

It’s why we groan when we see some player requests and feed back because we can already see how BioWare will use said requests and feed back in a different way than is being suggested.

It’s also why we get so upset over white knighting for BioWare’s ill conceived ideas because we know they will take it as a green light to mess it up across the board so no one is happy.

Why do you think we have so few servers now and why some of the current ones feel like ghost towns during parts of the day.

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It’s not the first time they’ve done this. If you’d play the game non stop since development you would know this is often a theme that Bioware repeat.

Which is why many of us long term players have learnt to be careful what you wish for cause BioWare nearly always misinterpret it in their execution.

Even though you can be as black and white in your request or feed back, BioWare often only hear the part they like and then twist it to fit their vision, not players desires.

It’s why we groan when we see some player requests and feed back because we can already see how BioWare will use said requests and feed back in a different way than is being suggested.

It’s also why we get so upset over white knighting for BioWare’s ill conceived ideas because we know they will take it as a green light to mess it up across the board so no one is happy.

Why do you think we have so few servers now and why some of the current ones feel like ghost towns during parts of the day.

 

That last part urks me every time. Just as bad as when you hear the line "You can't say anything negative until it releases and you get to try it". Or my favorite "Your just jumping on the hate bandwagon. Gamers hating just to hate".

 

No, some of us have watched this happen time and time again. If we didn't care we wouldn't speak up. In the end staying silent or being an apologist hurts gaming more than being fair with criticism and then voting with your wallet. At the very least, this time, the mistakes BW are making have pushed me to play until December so I can better remember the classes before the change.

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That last part urks me every time. Just as bad as when you hear the line "You can't say anything negative until it releases and you get to try it". Or my favorite "Your just jumping on the hate bandwagon. Gamers hating just to hate".

 

No, some of us have watched this happen time and time again. If we didn't care we wouldn't speak up. In the end staying silent or being an apologist hurts gaming more than being fair with criticism and then voting with your wallet. At the very least, this time, the mistakes BW are making have pushed me to play until December so I can better remember the classes before the change.

 

The problem had always been Biowares lack of “Two way” communication. You can provide info to them, but it often seems they misinterpret it or don’t confirm it properly. It’s like how they are totally ignoring the feed back on DCDs. Pages of feed back to say don’t do it has resulted in confirmation denial.

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So many features have already been 90% completed by the time developers ask players for feedback, so they force themselves to keep the system because they've already spent so much costly development time on it. That being said, the UI hasn't even been finished and there are many "to do" passives on the PTS and the majority of feedback revolves around just not putting abilities in the ABC system...which seems like a really simple thing to do. It is confusing to say the least.
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Why not? They've done it before.

 

I see that they are making people choose between skills that are loved and keeping a bunch that people don't really care about (that much). The two in question (enure and force freeze) can go for all I care. They can completely disappear, but no they're still there. In my view the ability pruning by itself is not the problem, but as usual with BW, they WAY they are doing the pruning.

 

yeah I'm with you, I wasn't being sarcastic. It's almost unbelievable they would go this route.

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It’s not the first time they’ve done this. If you’d play the game non stop since development you would know this is often a theme that Bioware repeat.

Which is why many of us long term players have learnt to be careful what you wish for cause BioWare nearly always misinterpret it in their execution.

Even though you can be as black and white in your request or feed back, BioWare often only hear the part they like and then twist it to fit their vision, not players desires.

It’s why we groan when we see some player requests and feed back because we can already see how BioWare will use said requests and feed back in a different way than is being suggested.

It’s also why we get so upset over white knighting for BioWare’s ill conceived ideas because we know they will take it as a green light to mess it up across the board so no one is happy.

Why do you think we have so few servers now and why some of the current ones feel like ghost towns during parts of the day.

 

Yeah I get it, my bad. I wasn't trying to white knight, I was just hoping for a combat revamp that would make me enjoy it more, seems like they are ruining it for everyone.

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That last part urks me every time. Just as bad as when you hear the line "You can't say anything negative until it releases and you get to try it". Or my favorite "Your just jumping on the hate bandwagon. Gamers hating just to hate".

 

No, some of us have watched this happen time and time again. If we didn't care we wouldn't speak up. In the end staying silent or being an apologist hurts gaming more than being fair with criticism and then voting with your wallet. At the very least, this time, the mistakes BW are making have pushed me to play until December so I can better remember the classes before the change.

 

To be fair it took a huge back and forth to get at some sensible feedback. Even assuming this point of them messing it up for everyone is completely true, taking a hardcore stance in some sort of mental play to say removing skills is terrible and my point of view is 'objective' is hardly the best approach. Had some of the points in this thread been made instead I would have been with it from the beginning BUT both bioware and the forum majority were misleading about what was going on.

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To be fair it took a huge back and forth to get at some sensible feedback. Even assuming this point of them messing it up for everyone is completely true, taking a hardcore stance in some sort of mental play to say removing skills is terrible and my point of view is 'objective' is hardly the best approach. Had some of the points in this thread been made instead I would have been with it from the beginning BUT both bioware and the forum majority were misleading about what was going on.

 

BioWare loves pitting the community against itself with ambiguous information that leaves a lot up to interpretation.

 

The cynic in me has sadly come to the conclusion that you can’t take BioWare at their word. You have to see / experience what they say to find the truth in what they announce.

 

It’s why I ALWAYS say to people they should test the changes on the PTS first before trying to interpret what BioWare said and arguing on the forum with people who’ve “actually” tested ;)

Edited by TrixxieTriss
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