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Pure Tank Spec in PvP


karimthejedi

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Hi guys,

 

I've heard varying opinions on this, so posting on the forums to get expert and hopefully conclusive advice on the topic.

 

I prefer to run a pure tank, with BiS tank set bonus and optimal tank mods providing high defense, shield, and absorb. (Guardian/Jugg). Obviously I complement that with a BiS defensive tactical.

 

My focus as a pure tank is simply guarding the team via awareness, swapping/interceding, and CC when possible. And most importantly, staying alive to take as much damage as possible away from the key DPS figures/healers.

 

Some are fine with the above set up; others won't queue team ranked as they feel a full tank spec isn't optimal.

 

At the end, I will obv play the way I want and the way that brings me most enjoyment. Simultaneously I'm also willing to adapt and learn from teammates.

 

But for those who don't condone a full tank spec for ranked PvP, is that justifiable? More importantly, how can I convince them that this spec is a great value addition to the team?

 

Appreciate your thoughts!

 

Karim

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correct me if I'm wrong, but did you just say, "thanks for the advice from those world top 3 players who responded to me, but I'm going to go a different route. how can you help me convince others to do the same?"

 

Dps mods and enhancements > mitigation mods and enhancements

 

It sounds like you did this first step. The one tip I have for tanks specifically is to ditch the full mit gear. Tank gear has no usefulness in ranked because a) lots of damage like internal and armor pen damage goes through it b) you are expected to contribute damage to your team. Instead you will want to use full dps stats with a shield attached. .

 

or am I misreading you here?

Edited by CheesyEZ
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If you are running Team ranked - you are a part of a team so talk with them. If you are doing solo queue then full tank may not be the way to go like others have stated. However, you made it clear that "you will play your way" so not sure what point of your post is?
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But for those who don't condone a full tank spec for ranked PvP, is that justifiable? More importantly, how can I convince them that this spec is a great value addition to the team?

 

It's not about "condoning" it or not. There's nothing wrong with it in principle. But it's very far from optimal, and as a result, you're going to lose games because of it. I doubt you're going to have much fun constantly losing, on top of being yelled at by your teammates nonstop for having the wrong gear. There's very little nuance to this situation to be honest.

 

Tactically, you have to understand that in both solo and group ranked, there is no benefit to stalling as a tank, unless they tank tunnel, which is very rare these days due to grit teeth. So when you're not being focused, your full mitigation gear is wasted, and you're simply going to do much less damage than tanks with dps gear.

Edited by JediMasterAlex
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@Cheesy, you may have misread me, just like I misread the folks' assertions on dps > mit gear earlier, as I wasn't fully aware of the terminology describing "mit" gear. I refer to it as tank gear, but thanks for pointing that out. Hope your concerns are alleviated.

 

@Ibok, point of the post was to check (or re-check) the usefulness of tank gear based on expert opinion and if it were corroborated by pro's, how to eloquently pass the message to my teammates. But I am slowly learning that it may not be the best gear.

 

@JMAlex, yup I wanted to know if my full tank gear would be wasted. I was under the impression from past research that certain dmg types were now shielded/absorbed by full tank gear. But apparently from the reminder on septru's post above, internal and armor penetration is not.

 

It would be cool if the devs allowed tanks to take full advantage of their gear, without the limitations in pvp. Otherwise we would all be classified as DPS and some people prefer to choose other roles.

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Hi guys,

 

I've heard varying opinions on this, so posting on the forums to get expert and hopefully conclusive advice on the topic.

 

I prefer to run a pure tank, with BiS tank set bonus and optimal tank mods providing high defense, shield, and absorb. (Guardian/Jugg). Obviously I complement that with a BiS defensive tactical.

 

My focus as a pure tank is simply guarding the team via awareness, swapping/interceding, and CC when possible. And most importantly, staying alive to take as much damage as possible away from the key DPS figures/healers.

 

Some are fine with the above set up; others won't queue team ranked as they feel a full tank spec isn't optimal.

 

At the end, I will obv play the way I want and the way that brings me most enjoyment. Simultaneously I'm also willing to adapt and learn from teammates.

 

But for those who don't condone a full tank spec for ranked PvP, is that justifiable? More importantly, how can I convince them that this spec is a great value addition to the team?

 

Appreciate your thoughts!

 

Karim

 

You're primary role as a tank in warzones is protection, not damage. Damage is the job of dps classes. So long as your taunts are always on cool down you're fine. Your other job is crowd control. You want to use your stuns when your taunts are on cool down. Your slows, pushes, interrupts etc. And be as fast as possible with your guard for whoever needs it. If your getting over 1mill to 3mill or even 6mill in protection you're doing your job perfectly.

 

But most importantly damage is helpful in a warzone but overrated. Warzones have objectives. So you can run up on a protected noded and use your stuns and grenades and cap a node. No need to fight and wait until the enemy is dead to cap a node. With a capping buff like the one on the Yavin map, you're pretty much unstoppable when stealing a node guarded by just one Player or even two or three if you have a seismic grenade.

 

There are also plenty of strategies you can use in a warzone as a traditional tank. One of my favorites is when on voice with a team, go cap a node in front of everyone's face. The enemy team will freak out and be all over you as your dps friends wipe them down with AOE's and your healer keeps you up. Just keep capping and hard stun some next to you to keep them there as your team takes them down.

 

Another favorite of mine is making it obvious your going for an enemy node and have a bunch of them chase you to it far away from a node your team is trying to cap. So let's say your kiting 4 dps dweebs, and the 5th one is guarding their node that means 6 of your teammates only have to deal with 3. Once those three are dead and you're down, those four have to run back and face your 6. If they're smart they may run to deal with your 1 guarding your teams node but by then you respawned to assist and call for help.

 

Full blown tanks are awesome in warzones.

 

In ranked warzones, desperate dps players may cry that you can't dps, because they're inadequate and can't do their jobs sufficiently so they want their tank to wear dps mods. Which is do-able. But why play with dps players who want to be carried and can't do their jobs? Plus spamming arenas are ultra boring and everyone there are really angry teens who don't go out much. It's a very awkward experience with little to zero fun value. I prefer warzones as it's more complex, diverse and allot more fun. Plus you get techfrags really fast and can exchange them for the oem crafting material. And arenas still pop in regular warzones. I don't see any reason to do ranked and waste the precious hours of ones life in such a toxic place.

 

But while were on the topic of pvp, there's open world pvp. Guardian and Juggernaut tanks are awesome at single handedly stopping entire guilds from killing a base commander. Shield the base commander and send your 50 influence companion to kill their healers and/or stun their healers. When they find you, do an aoe stun and then drop a seismic grenade. They will be extremely upset with you. But it's the pvp instance, and you're a full blown tank. You're a tank who has shield, absorb and defense and none of it is level capped. You're now a world boss. And the base commander will lay the smack down as you bully dozens of players by yourself with your stuns.

 

Hope that helps. There is so much more, but I won't share all of my secrets.

 

The main goal is to win. No one cares about damage scores except for people trying to feel better about losing all the time for not understanding how to SWTOR. So don't worry, play warzones as your tank and make sure your focused on getting high protection scores and objective scores. You will find yourself getting the highest medals each and every time. And you'll also be a God in open world pvp. Just search for a name base commander and hang out there as you queue for warzones and eventually an unsuspecting Guild will be there and discover the hard way just how much trouble a real tank can be in "pvp".

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In ranked warzones, desperate dps players may cry that you can't dps, because they're inadequate and can't do their jobs sufficiently so they want their tank to wear dps mods. Which is do-able. But why play with dps players who want to be carried and can't do their jobs?

 

This is completely wrong, and no offense HiddenPalm, you sound like you have no idea what you are doing. There are several reasons why all MIT (tank) gear does not work in arenas.

 

1) MIT gear does not work. Like I said before, most of the damage that another player will use is either internal or white damage with armor pen attached. Both of these types of damage go through a tank's MIT gear stats making the MIT gear effectively useless.

 

2) MIT gear is not needed to survive. Good jugg tanks can live practically forever in arenas by just cycling their cooldowns. If you know what you are doing you doing you can survive without MIT gear.

 

3) Good tanks are expected to contribute damage alongside guardswapping. There is no other way for me to say this. Good tanks can do upwards of 6k dps while constantly guard swapping, protecting their teammates, and shutting down enemy dps. If you are doing 1k dps as a tank, then you are not doing half of your job.

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Full blown tanks are awesome in warzones.

 

No one disputes this. The OP was asking about ranked.

 

In ranked warzones, desperate dps players may cry that you can't dps, because they're inadequate and can't do their jobs sufficiently so they want their tank to wear dps mods. Which is do-able. But why play with dps players who want to be carried and can't do their jobs?

 

This is wrong. Let me lay out a scenario for you that I've seen happen plenty of times in ranked. It's a tank/heal match. Both teams' dps and heals are putting out similar numbers, but one team has a full mitigation tank and the other has a properly geared skank tank. Neither tank is getting tunneled. Which team do you think wins every single time? The skank tank of course, because he'll do probably 4-5x the damage of the full mitigation tank, providing much more pressure, and the mit tank is getting essentially zero benefit from having those tank stats since they're not being focused. This is not a complicated issue. If you still disagree, please explain how you think a "full blown tank" benefits their team in a ranked match.

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Neither tank is getting tunneled... the mit tank is getting essentially zero benefit from having those tank stats since they're not being focused.

 

Even if you are tunneling the tank, MIT stats would offer only a negligible advantage because almost all damage is either internal or has some kind of armor pen.

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Snipped

 

So much of what you said regarding regular warzones is true, and the diversity of objectives and maps definitely makes it more fun if you at least have a team willing to communicate and help one another. I do enjoy reg PvP alot still and I am certain I will always play it. And yes, have my full tank set surely assists with capping nodes and stalling multiple enemies away from the crowd while stunning/CC'ing/self-healing. A full tank is an enjoyable toon; others are also enjoyable as hell (eg. I love the same tank when I re-spec them to dps like Guardian or Jugg). Similar with the Shadow and possibly VG/PT, though I've yet to acquire the full Emergency Power set for the latter to really test out their full effectiveness as a tank.

 

You reminded me about open world PvP! Damn. I guess I've been in PVE mode for quite some time, sheesh, it would be nice to switch instances for sure and have some fun.

 

Regarding the assault on base commanders, do you reckon I should group up with others to start that? I'm excited to try.

 

Thanks for your tips!

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@JMAlex and Sep, so why doesn't BW fully enable a pure tank to be as is? Why don't the MIT mods work as intended? That's strange. Then people can play the way they wish/the role they choose.

 

By the way, what are the types of damage that bypass tank mods? Internal and kinetic?

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Even if you are tunneling the tank, MIT stats would offer only a negligible advantage because almost all damage is either internal or has some kind of armor pen.

 

I'm assuming shielding/absorbing crits is still somewhat valuable in that situation. But it's not like any good tanks run full mitigation so it's pretty hard to know to what extent that would make any difference in an actual ranked tank tunnel scenario.

 

@JMAlex and Sep, so why doesn't BW fully enable a pure tank to be as is? Why don't the MIT mods work as intended? That's strange. Then people can play the way they wish/the role they choose.

 

You're missing the point though. Jugg tanks have good dcds+grit teeth, so they rarely get tunneled in ranked (unless they have 2-3 conc ops on their team with no healer, then TT is still the best option). And those dcds+grit teeth are more than enough to keep them alive from guard damage and cleave. There is no need for mitigation gear. It doesn't bring any utility to your team. It just reduces your ability to do damage.

 

Even if Bioware drastically buffed tank stats, they probably still wouldn't be worthwhile in ranked, because having raw survivability is not the point of a tank in ranked.

 

Also, I feel it's worth pointing out that the way you play as a tank in ranked is identical regardless of your stats. Your primary job is still to guard swap, taunt, cc, etc.

Edited by JediMasterAlex
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Let the old man shed some light.. in rank warzone even yolo's.. most team will burn a tank 1st.. especially if he guarding.. you trying to guard and keep team alive.. good players in rank will cc healer.. or just focus and burn you down guard and all..

 

experience dpser's who know what to do in rank.. that full tank gear is useless.. you get more skank tanking and at least doing damage.. in arena rank name of the game is dps race.. who can kill the enemy team fastest.. lot of people not trying to make it to acid round..

 

lastly this gonna leave a bad taste in my mouth.. i gotta agree with Septru on this topic.. with internal and armor penetration mit gear is useless in rank.. word of advice from the grapevine.. if you ever have Septru on your team.. make sure you guard if anybody else.. cause if he or she dies.. they will vote kick you from group even if you won the round..

Edited by Xertasian
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So much of what you said regarding regular warzones is true, and the diversity of objectives and maps definitely makes it more fun if you at least have a team willing to communicate and help one another. I do enjoy reg PvP alot still and I am certain I will always play it. And yes, have my full tank set surely assists with capping nodes and stalling multiple enemies away from the crowd while stunning/CC'ing/self-healing. A full tank is an enjoyable toon; others are also enjoyable as hell (eg. I love the same tank when I re-spec them to dps like Guardian or Jugg). Similar with the Shadow and possibly VG/PT, though I've yet to acquire the full Emergency Power set for the latter to really test out their full effectiveness as a tank.

 

You reminded me about open world PvP! Damn. I guess I've been in PVE mode for quite some time, sheesh, it would be nice to switch instances for sure and have some fun.

 

Regarding the assault on base commanders, do you reckon I should group up with others to start that? I'm excited to try.

 

Thanks for your tips!

 

Yeah man, anytime. The base commanders are only available in the pvp instance. If you're attacking a base commander ofcourse you need a team, the larger the better. You do have to tell your team to be ready in time and form fast or else you might bump into a competing team. And that's the worse. The team with the aggro is the team that gets the spoils. If the competing team is bigger, you're going to want to go to the opposite faction as quick as possible and stop them. Let your team know in advance that such a hunt can quickly turn into an open world pvp battle between guulds where you have to switch so they understand what's going on and don't just see people leaving the group for no reason. Having your opposite faction tank in the area helps allot when switching.

 

The fastest way to find a base commander is to have a toon on the opposite faction scout for named base commanders who are the ones who drop the expensive encryptions. Regular base commanders just drop regular encryptions. Also check to see if planet controlling Guild put a flagship shield on the named base commander. If so, then you have to wait until the shield is gone. Dulfy has a guide of all the locations. After awhile you'll know them by memory and can move around fast with quick travel.

 

Yeah open world pvp is still alive and well. Breaks my heart when I see a McDonald's Guild make events for open world pvp achievements where they put an opposite faction Player there allowing their McDonald's Guild to get free kills. It defeats the purpose of the achievements that have been earned by older players who came from old pvp servers who truly earned those achievements or players who always play in the pvp instance.

 

Leveling in the pvp instance is also more fun and immersive. And changes the entire definition of the game and it's quality, especially on planets like Iokath that was meant to be a pvp wonderland. But Bioware mistakenly put everyone there in the pve instance by default. I feel bad for the devs who created that planet which barely ever got to be played to its fullest potential.

 

But atleast there are still the base commanders. And if you're a tank, you can "mostly" single handedly stop entire guilds from getting a base commander. It takes a little practice and sneakiness. Good luck.

 

And don't listen to these DPS players about ranked regarding tanks. They're all emotionally distraught as you saw on this thread. Not that what they're saying is wrong. It's just not worth it to spam the same arena maps over and over again to carry those type of players while they just sit there and do their pve rotations expecting you to do their jobs plus tank. One of them even said they will vote kick you if you're not geared to help them do their jobs. Then they wonder why it stops popping and have to beg tanks to queue for "yolos", lol! At that point I offer my tank services for 600k no less. And they have to pay before hand. There isn't enough room in the inventory to carry two sets of gear anyways. So don't feel bad if you want to charge dps players for you to queue as tank. Just don't charge ranked dps players more than 10mill, as that's kind of pushing it. Video games are supposed to be fun and group content is supposed to be good times. Bend the knee to no one, especially for dpskarens who want to be carried in toxic arena spams.

 

May the Force be with you.

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And don't listen to these DPS players about ranked regarding tanks. They're all emotionally distraught as you saw on this thread. Not that what they're saying is wrong. It's just not worth it to spam the same arena maps over and over again to carry those type of players while they just sit there and do their pve rotations expecting you to do their jobs plus tank. One of them even said they will vote kick you if you're not geared to help them do their jobs. Then they wonder why it stops popping and have to beg tanks to queue for "yolos", lol! At that point I offer my tank services for 600k no less. And they have to pay before hand. There isn't enough room in the inventory to carry two sets of gear anyways. So don't feel bad if you want to charge dps players for you to queue as tank. Just don't charge ranked dps players more than 10mill, as that's kind of pushing it. Video games are supposed to be fun and group content is supposed to be good times. Bend the knee to no one, especially for dpskarens who want to be carried in toxic arena spams.

 

This is one of the most unhinged posts I've seen in a while. Vote kick was removed. And no one ever begs tanks to queue for solo ranked except for other tanks that want pops. A lot of dps actually dislike tank games. Many players in this game carry multiple sets of gear in their inventories.

 

Your last part about dps paying you to queue is utterly bizarre and I actually don't know what you're talking about.

Edited by JediMasterAlex
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Then they wonder why it stops popping and have to beg tanks to queue for "yolos", lol! At that point I offer my tank services for 600k no less.

 

600k? That's it? I'm down. I'll pay 600k for a bot tank to que against. DM me in discord and we can negotiate the details of the wintrade.

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Running a mit tanks is fine in regs since you're dealing with so much damage, but in 4's healer/tank matches the story changes alot. The reason why most people in 4's don't run mit tank is because of wasted stats. In most 4v4 healer tank matches, the tank is never the primary target, so why would you put all of those extra mitigation stats into a character that the enemy team is trying to cc and ignore as much as possible. In all of the 4v4 matches i've been in, the tank is almost always regardless of what type of gear he's wearing, the last to die. Those extra mitigation stats would be much better placed in dps stats.

 

Also ED, which is your main dcd, heals you based off of your power, mastery, and crit. So the higher you make those offensive stats, the more your ED heals you for, and the tankier you can become. As a full mitigation tank your power is about 2k and ED will heal for about 15k per tick which account for crits (20%) should heal for about 198k or about 68% of your hp.. My skanktank build heals me for about 19k per tick with a crit chance of about 43% which should heal for about 296,000 hp or 1.05% of my hp.

 

When dealing with internal damage, this healing different from ED becomes much more apparent as all that damage completely bypasses all your defensive stats (which imo is broken).

 

Also when you take a match into acid, having those extra mitigation stats is also going to hurt more than it will help. The damage output would be very low, and acid penetrates through mitigation anyways. You would be better off wearing a skanktank set, where you could ED at the start of acid to ensure you're at full hp, and pop the rest of your dcds to help mitigation damage while also being about to deal almost as much damage as a normal dps. There have been 4v4's matches where as a skanktank you'll get top dps, just becuase your other dps were terrible. Yet this is just another reason why to pick skanktank. If you're dps are suffering or unskilled or whatever the situation is, then you're able to help pick up the slack. Yes, you likely won't get consistent 50k crushing blows, but the amount of pressure you can put out is still alot to deal with.

Edited by Llacertus
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And no one ever begs tanks to queue for solo ranked except for other tanks that want pops.

 

You're about forgetting the healers that don't want to deal with being tunneled by 3 dps. And all of those dps specs that arent viable in 3 or 4 dps matches because they're too squishy or their damage cant be put out fast enough.

Edited by Llacertus
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