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What buffs did Mercs get?


Jarbarian

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I literally cannot kill a Merc anymore. What buff did they get? It takes (and I watch this in BGs) 3-5 people to kill a Merc and on my Sorc, no way I can 1v1 a Merc anymore. Two of them on you, insta-kill.

 

PS: I want this info so I can do the same for my Commando, if that is applicable.

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I literally cannot kill a Merc anymore. What buff did they get? It takes (and I watch this in BGs) 3-5 people to kill a Merc and on my Sorc, no way I can 1v1 a Merc anymore. Two of them on you, insta-kill.

 

PS: I want this info so I can do the same for my Commando, if that is applicable.

 

None

Honestly im so over this whole unkillable merc narrative.

What you should be asking is how to play them, how to counter the DCDs, How to negate or minimize them... but no one wants to have that conversation.. they want to just pew pew into every indicator not to in hulk smash mode and wonder why it isnt working.

You beat merc with your brain, not your weapon.

Its a good thing that some classes play different than others... not every boss is tank and spank, nor is every player in PvP.

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mercs are pretty easy. aoe or cc their reflect. maybe also shield if you want. I actually struggle with juggs in regs.

 

edit:

sin: stealth and mezz reflect, or WW reflect, or low slash and then WW if you cannot stealth.

 

op: stealth and sleep reflect, or flash reflect, or lolroll to los, heal, finish killing the merc who got no heals from reflect.

 

mara: smash reflect, combat stealth and los then leap back, or use awe, predation to los, leap back and resume murdering merc.

 

jugg: laugh as your dcds cycle before merc can push through them and he's unable to cc through your immunities and breaks. also awe and choke for reflect/shield.

 

merc: smile when you see shield, then death from above, toss a frag grenade, start channeling tracer which will land after reflect has fallen off.

 

sniper/sorc: aoe spam or lift/flash, or super snare and los.

Edited by CheesyEZ
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None

Honestly im so over this whole unkillable merc narrative.

What you should be asking is how to play them, how to counter the DCDs, How to negate or minimize them... but no one wants to have that conversation.. they want to just pew pew into every indicator not to in hulk smash mode and wonder why it isnt working.

You beat merc with your brain, not your weapon.

Its a good thing that some classes play different than others... not every boss is tank and spank, nor is every player in PvP.

 

Ok so it isn't just me struggling with beating them. That 1 min CD on no rolls,sprint whatever means i can't even get out of their LOS.

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Ok so it isn't just me struggling with beating them. That 1 min CD on no rolls,sprint whatever means i can't even get out of their LOS.

 

With all due respect, this is exactly my point.

People want all classes to just stand still and take the beating without having to think about the fight.

If your getting caught in the open at range, with everything on cooldown like that, and i have all mine, youre supposed to lose to almost any ranged class given that.

Plan your positioning better, understand how to handle the DCDs, manage your cooldowns... i guarantee you were not the invincible monsters you think we if done right and our DCDs are our only advantage as we cant out DPS you.

so what would you have us do aside from just fall down as free kills?

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I literally cannot kill a Merc anymore. What buff did they get? It takes (and I watch this in BGs) 3-5 people to kill a Merc and on my Sorc, no way I can 1v1 a Merc anymore. Two of them on you, insta-kill.

 

PS: I want this info so I can do the same for my Commando, if that is applicable.

 

Mercs haven't received any significant buffs since 5.xx aside from their tacticals and set bonuses. Their DPS is solidly mid tier so the threat of extreme burst isn't something you have to worry about.

 

They make up for this lack of burst damage with extremely powerful DCDs. Arguably the strongest in the game. If you have the notion that you're going to outlast a Merc on open ground in a battle of attrition you can forget it unless you're spec'd tank. They're a ranged DPS class with off heals and the ability to withstand focus fire like a tank spec. It can be a bit counter intuitive, but squishy range class does not apply here.

 

You have to understand how their DCDs work and play around them. Most of their DCDs offer significant damage reduction, self healing, and single target damage reflection.

 

Ex: If you're launching single target damage into Responsive Safeguards you aren't going to damage the Merc. You'll annihilate yourself while the Merc stands there and self heals. That defensive was meant to be an anti-focus, and it's the best one in the game bar none. This is why you see mercs face-tanking an entire team like an Immortal Juggernaut.

 

Mercs aren't unkillable, but playing around their DCDs is not optional. They're designed to buy time and they're excellent at it.

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What flop says is pretty accurate. But if you tell us what class you’re on, maybe we can help with some pointers.

 

Shadow

Slinger

Scoundrel

Sentinel

Spellcaster

And yes, Commando, so I understand them.

 

I get what everyone is saying, but you only get 1 trinket out of everything. The answer I think you're getting at is to get out of LOS, but not always easy and some of my classes have no way to heal (Sent/Slinger/Shadow) for example.

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None

Honestly im so over this whole unkillable merc narrative.

What you should be asking is how to play them, how to counter the DCDs, How to negate or minimize them... but no one wants to have that conversation..

 

Kind of a simplified response. When you have some DCDs that defend against damage but also leave you immovable or unable to attack; and some that defend against damage while letting you move freely, unload damage on others with impunity and other advantages to boot, then people will obviously complain about the second kind. Pretending not to see this is unlikely to help.

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Shadow

Slinger

Scoundrel

Sentinel

Spellcaster

And yes, Commando, so I understand them.

 

I get what everyone is saying, but you only get 1 trinket out of everything. The answer I think you're getting at is to get out of LOS, but not always easy and some of my classes have no way to heal (Sent/Slinger/Shadow) for example.

 

Seeing as you play a commando, I won’t need to go into how the DCDs work or what they look like. Just remember the basics on any class and that’s to work around the DCDs. The other posters have posted most of what you need to know, ie, using AOEs and stuns or interrupts while their DCDs are up.

 

Each of those classes is more than capable of going 1v1 on a Merc. The tactics will very, but the one thing remains constant, don’t try and slug it out with a Merc in open ground. That applies to your slingers as well, but less so. It’s always a good idea if you have a few obstacles you can duck behind to break the mercs lock or when they hit a DCD and your counter isn’t ready.

 

With your shadow you can wear down a Merc and stealth out or stun them when you need to. It’s one of the easiest, but also the slowest. You will have to use your interrupts as well to stop them self healing. It’s a game of attrition and you want to grind them down like a operations boss.

 

With your sentinel, I’m assuming you’re using concentration spec? You can burst down the Merc fast in between their DCDs, just use your force camo and transcendance if you get into trouble and make sure you’ve obstacles to block the Merc free casting on you as you approach and with draw. Stun them when they try to heal.

 

The gunslinger also has some really strong DCDs and passive immunities connected to utility choices. Some will constantly heal you while in cover and others when you roll. If you think you’ll be up against mercs, make sure you choose those. And put your teleport somewhere out of sight so you can escape if you need to. You can nearly slog it out with the Merc 1v1 on open ground as long as you work around their DCDs.

 

Sages and Sorcs have it the easiest against Mercs. They can do a truck load of burst damage and they can out heal a Merc. Use your stuns and interrupts wisely and time your DCDs and teleport (phase walk). Sages and sorcs are on par with going head to head and escape to heal as needed. Use your speed run and obstacles to mess up their targeting and don’t stop moving.

 

The best thing is practice. But also watch some ranked streamers on those classes and you’ll learn some tricks and understand timing better than I can explain it.

 

Sadly, with 7.0 around the corner and the the changes coming will mean everything you learn will change in December.

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What flop says is pretty accurate. But if you tell us what class you’re on, maybe we can help with some pointers.

 

I have offered many times, and gotten very few takers.

The ones that get it already know, the ones that just want to hulk smash all the time, probably never will.

But ive always said i would help dispell this myth.

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Mercs haven't received any significant buffs since 5.xx aside from their tacticals and set bonuses. Their DPS is solidly mid tier so the threat of extreme burst isn't something you have to worry about.

 

They make up for this lack of burst damage with extremely powerful DCDs. Arguably the strongest in the game. If you have the notion that you're going to outlast a Merc on open ground in a battle of attrition you can forget it unless you're spec'd tank. They're a ranged DPS class with off heals and the ability to withstand focus fire like a tank spec. It can be a bit counter intuitive, but squishy range class does not apply here.

 

You have to understand how their DCDs work and play around them. Most of their DCDs offer significant damage reduction, self healing, and single target damage reflection.

 

Ex: If you're launching single target damage into Responsive Safeguards you aren't going to damage the Merc. You'll annihilate yourself while the Merc stands there and self heals. That defensive was meant to be an anti-focus, and it's the best one in the game bar none. This is why you see mercs face-tanking an entire team like an Immortal Juggernaut.

 

Mercs aren't unkillable, but playing around their DCDs is not optional. They're designed to buy time and they're excellent at it.

 

This person gets it, thank you.

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Sadly, with 7.0 around the corner and the the changes coming will mean everything you learn will change in December.

 

I disagree.

Nothing is changing that drastically, were all losing stuff, and the issue is as much about understanding mechanics as anything else.

In any 1v1 some classes win by burst, some by higher damage output, some by control, some outlast by dots, some outlast by being tanky, some outlast by DCDs ... the idea behind how to fight the varying styles isnt changing at all really so those concepts will still be valid.

Its really very simple, knowing when to hit, when not to. I realize that causes issue for many as it goes against their typical process, but isnt that what PvP is all about? Isnt that why we do it over PvE boss mechanics that dont change?

You cant just tank and spank everything or expect people to sit and fight how you want them to, you have to be the one that adapts.

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it's possible you maybe aren't aware of the utility choices that ratchet up commando dcds. sorry if this is redudant for you, but it explains how you setup and play mando for high survivability.

 

Reactive Shield Buff:

your basic 25% DR dcd is reactive shield. there are two mandatory utilities to buff it. in masterful tier, you want Reflexive Shield to reduce the cd on Reactive Shield. then in heroic tier, you want Trauma Stabilizers that gives you ~40% heal when Reactive Shield expires or you cancel it.

 

you can also take Combat Shield in the masterful tier to reduce pushback and (more importantly) increase healing received while Reactive Shield is active. it also makes you immune to interrupts, which is very good for all specs but mandatory for healer.

 

some players op for Electro Shield to boost the utility of their reduced Reactive Shield. I think that's a waste. the real choice is between Advance the Line, Reflexive Battery, and Overclock. In gunnery with Apex pred set and Primed Ignition tactical, you get maximum burst potential (supercharged cell > vortex bolt > grav > tech override > grav > grav > boltstorm). Reflexive battery will heal you moar and the reduced cd on punt is great. so it really comes down to what you need and what spec you're running.

 

a mando might pop his WZ adrenal during Reactive Shield to reduce dmg by 40% for essentially the duration of the shield. this allows him to avoid having to self-heal and, instead, using those gcds for attacks. but self healing is magnified while shield is up with the Combat Shield talent, so that's situational.

 

Trauma Stabilizers

This is the heroic tier utility that returns up to 40% heal when Reactive Shield expires or is clipped by the player. The % heal returned is determined by the number of direct/single target damage abilities that hit the shield. part of me is angry that since the shield is a flat DR, it should also return heals for all dmg, but the fact of the matter is that...well...do mandos really need MORE dcd advantages? heh. (that was a no)

 

Adrenal Surge

Adrenal Surge is the only heal a mando has that doesn't require poor play by his opponent in order to work right. It changes Adrenaline Rush from a meh DCD that anyone can burst through to a fantastic heal that only (maybe) an AP PT can burst through.

 

The trick here is not to waste the heal by casing your own heal while it's active or by popping your medpack while it's active. generally players stack a medpack on top of Adrenaline Rush, making it a HTF combo, but if you do it before AR has run it's course, you're not going to maximize its benefit.

 

Echoing Deterrence

This is the "heal shield" or reflect that heals the mando and reflects 50% of the dmg back on the attacker. It's self-explanatory.

 

Shock Absorbers vs. Forced March

There's only one utility point to play with as a mando in the heroic tier. Forced March is a great offensive ability that allows mandos to kite and pursue enemies much more effectively by channeling boltstorm on the move. Shock Absorbers, however, is a very powerful defensive, providing 30% DR to aoe attacks and while stunned (not sure i that's 30% or 60% to aoe while stunned. anyway...).

 

Given that the book is out on mando DCDs (see below), you should probably take SA, especially if you solo queue. If you run in a group (where you can count on peels, heals, guard, etc.), then I'd say go with the more offense-minded option. It's also worth taking Force March first just to see if you feel you need the extra aoe and stun protection.

 

Word of caution though: whichever one you try first, you will sorely miss it when you try the other one. the 30% stun DR is particularly noticeable, imo.

 

How do people not know this yet?

Here's the deal with these DCDs though: they're all predicated on single target attacks. Reactive Shield is just a 25% DR if you're not hitting the mando with a direct/single target attack. Echoing Deterrence isn't even a DR against aoe. and neither of them return any sort of heal unless the opponent specifically (directly) attacks them (i.e., single target). so the effectiveness of mando DCDs are almost entirely reliant on ignorant play by the opponent.

Edited by CheesyEZ
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I disagree.

Nothing is changing that drastically, were all losing stuff, and the issue is as much about understanding mechanics as anything else.

In any 1v1 some classes win by burst, some by higher damage output, some by control, some outlast by dots, some outlast by being tanky, some outlast by DCDs ... the idea behind how to fight the varying styles isnt changing at all really so those concepts will still be valid.

Its really very simple, knowing when to hit, when not to. I realize that causes issue for many as it goes against their typical process, but isnt that what PvP is all about? Isnt that why we do it over PvE boss mechanics that dont change?

You cant just tank and spank everything or expect people to sit and fight how you want them to, you have to be the one that adapts.

 

You just disagreed that everything the OP learns about those classes would change in 7.0 but agreed that we were all going to lose abilities.

Sure the concept of pvp is the same, but most of the abilities and counters will need to be relearnt. I’m not sure why you’d think this means anything else except what I said.

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I literally cannot kill a Merc anymore. What buff did they get? It takes (and I watch this in BGs) 3-5 people to kill a Merc and on my Sorc, no way I can 1v1 a Merc anymore. Two of them on you, insta-kill.

 

PS: I want this info so I can do the same for my Commando, if that is applicable.

Someone compiled a list of your QQ threads in one of your posts so I just thought it would be nice to go down memory lane again.

 

1. https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=985917

"melee classes and Sorcs utterly destroying everyone in their path"

"Melee does way too much damage, too many gap closers, too much healing, too much CC"

 

2. https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=983677

"It's high time you took away roll immunity and cut healing by 75% (so they are on par with other classes) and make Operatives have to work as hard as other classes for kills"

 

3. https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=981417

"Can't get Sentinels off me"

"Vanguards take 1/2 your health in the first second"

 

4. https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=977392

"ONE SINGLE OPERATIVE can stop 8 players from capping a base"

 

5. https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=976849

"Any team with 1 or more Scoundrel/Operative can keep an entire opposing team busy while the other bases are capped"

 

6. https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=975698

"It makes Warcraft's ROGUE's look like clowns"

"PLEASE NERF THEM HARD"

"Make SWTOR (PVP) Great Again!"

 

7. https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=975809

"fixing the OVERPOWER problems with Shadows and Scoundrels"

 

8. https://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=9802440&postcount=5

"Considering how way OP Juggernauts are right now, I am not sure why every single player in the game isn't playing one."

 

 

 

I will repeat what I said in your other Operatives are GODLY QQ thread: GET GOOD.

No disrespect when I say this, but the reason why PvP, ranked specifically at least on NA is a **** show is because of people like you who cannot accept criticism and constantly complain that someone is better than you. Rather than even remotely accepting you are not as good as you make yourself seem to be, you instead complain on the forums as evident by the links above.

 

I literally cannot kill a merc anymore

The word "anymore" implies that you're unable to kill a merc as of this moment. However, there have not been any major balancing patches. All of that is reserved for 7.0. Once again: Get Good.

 

It takes (and I watch this in BGs) 3-5 people to kill a Merc

This awfully sounds familiar oh wait it's the same exact reasoning you used in this thread

https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=986692

We even had a match where ONE SINGLE OPERATIVE was able to stop 5 of us from capping our base and we could not kill him.

 

Shadow

Slinger

Scoundrel

Sentinel

Spellcaster

And yes, Commando, so I understand them.

 

I get what everyone is saying, but you only get 1 trinket out of everything. The answer I think you're getting at is to get out of LOS, but not always easy and some of my classes have no way to heal (Sent/Slinger/Shadow) for example.

This goes to everyone giving advice and I like to think that a majority of players understand that the class is not as relevant as opposed to its spec.

 

The problem you have is as bright as day in the quote above "but not always easy"; you expect it to be easy but it's a skill you develop over time. Hence the skill disparity. It's not always necessarily getting out of LOS but rather using terrain details (walls, pillars, a sandbag barricade) to your advantage. Also, Sentinels and Shadow can out of combat heal. It's harder with Sentinel but Shadow can especially with double shroud tactical.

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Also, Sentinels and Shadow can out of combat heal. It's harder with Sentinel but Shadow can especially with double shroud tactical.

this has become a major pet peeve of mine, but I actually find it easier to get out of combat on my sentinel than my shadow/sin...particularly in WZs.

 

all I have to do on the sentinel is combat stealth, transcend, and I am halfway across the WZ before stealth drops off, and b/c I used transcend, I can stealth again if I need to get more separation. that makes grabbing medpacks and even getting out of combat easier than on my shadow/sin.

 

here's how the sin should work: 1st cloak used offensively to escape burst and/or reset recklessness, and/or CC a target who popped a reflect-ish DCD. 2nd cloak to escape if need be.

 

here's how things actually play out: 1st cloak used offensively. no problem. 2nd cloak used to escape. get to los. unstealth. CAN'T HEAL STILL IN COMBAT. and here's the infuriating thing: I'm not taking any (dot) dmg. I just CAN'T HEAL. because I'm STUCK IN COMBAT. it makes no sense. sometimes I can heal after a couple seconds. sometimes I sit there for 20-30s. in WZs, it would've better to just die and respawn than wait for combat to drop off. in arenas, those 5-20s while I'm sitting there not even being able to begin healing are 5-20s that my team is severely disadvantaged. I can't be the only one with this issue...?

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Kind of a simplified response. When you have some DCDs that defend against damage but also leave you immovable or unable to attack; and some that defend against damage while letting you move freely, unload damage on others with impunity and other advantages to boot, then people will obviously complain about the second kind. Pretending not to see this is unlikely to help.

 

Simplifying it, is forgetting that without them, were dead meat.

I dont have your dps, or your burst, so what would you suggest?

Pretending to not see that, also doesnt help.

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Most of this discussion will be redundant in December. As will most of pvp. If you guys haven’t PTS tested yet, I suggest you do because it’s nearly too late for any feed back to make a difference. And if you don’t test, you have no grounds to whine about classes being broken in 7.0
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Most of this discussion will be redundant in December. As will most of pvp. If you guys haven’t PTS tested yet, I suggest you do because it’s nearly too late for any feed back to make a difference. And if you don’t test, you have no grounds to whine about classes being broken in 7.0

 

Some clasases will be totally garbage from 7.0 onward in PVP..... and the fact that PVE players are the majority giving feedback on the PTS doesn't help at all.

 

PTS testing and giving feedback ? Not much will change anyway. They are set to go on with those changes and probably some players will just quit .

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Some clasases will be totally garbage from 7.0 onward in PVP..... and the fact that PVE players are the majority giving feedback on the PTS doesn't help at all.

 

PTS testing and giving feedback ? Not much will change anyway. They are set to go on with those changes and probably some players will just quit .

 

to be fair, if you're a "pvp player" playing swtor, it's a bit like saying you're an olympian b/c you participated in the special olympics. I mean...yeah. you're an olympian...in a kiddie pool. the olympic sized swimming pool, however, is over there. >.>

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Some clasases will be totally garbage from 7.0 onward in PVP..... and the fact that PVE players are the majority giving feedback on the PTS doesn't help at all.

 

PTS testing and giving feedback ? Not much will change anyway. They are set to go on with those changes and probably some players will just quit .

 

Totally agree. But it’s catch-22, if no one actually tests pvp and provides feedback, then it’s hard to totally blame the devs because they can always use the defence that they didn’t get enough feedback or stats off the pts.

Sadly, I agree that 7.0 will just cause more people to leave the whole game including pvp.

 

I really would like to know what Biowares business plan and justification to spending all their resources pruning classes abilities and possibly breaking the whole game.

They can’t be that naive to think it’s not going to make some people leave. Logically they must think they are going to grow the population somehow or make more money to offset people leaving.

Otherwise it’s a poor business plan and someone should (but won’t) end up being fired for gross incompetence when we have less players next February than we do now and the game is making less money.

 

Personally, I think there is a possibility they are making the changes to capture the Steam Deck crowd (the timings too coincidental) and possibly make it easier to port to Xbox console next time. That’s the only thing that actually makes business sense to me.

But I also think it’s a massive gamble to go after an unproven segment at the expense of your current “paying” player base. I guess we’ll see come December how well these changes are received and we’ll probably know by February if the game will last another year.

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Simplifying it, is forgetting that without them, were dead meat.

I dont have your dps, or your burst, so what would you suggest?

Pretending to not see that, also doesnt help.

 

Well, first off an arsenal merc has very respectable burst and dps. Perhaps not as good as some specs, but not bad. On the other hand, they're also more capable than many other classes in getting their burst/damage off. Unlike a lightning sorc where you can shut down their biggest damage ability by staying on them, an arsenal merc leads with only instant casts.

 

Secondly, I 'pretend not to see it' because it's a much smaller problem: it's not like you see a lot of players coming on here to complain that a PT or lightning sorc killed someone 5% faster than they did; the complaints follow very similar patterns of people either getting locked down a lot or feeling that certain classes or specs are extremely hard to pin down or kill in spite of getting focused. Concealment ops obviously top this list, but mercs justifiably have a place on it, and that is what I meant by pretending to see in my case: even though this point is very well known, some people react with almost surprise or outrage that it keeps getting brought up.

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Well, first off an arsenal merc has very respectable burst and dps. Perhaps not as good as some specs, but not bad. On the other hand, they're also more capable than many other classes in getting their burst/damage off. Unlike a lightning sorc where you can shut down their biggest damage ability by staying on them, an arsenal merc leads with only instant casts.

 

Secondly, I 'pretend not to see it' because it's a much smaller problem: it's not like you see a lot of players coming on here to complain that a PT or lightning sorc killed someone 5% faster than they did; the complaints follow very similar patterns of people either getting locked down a lot or feeling that certain classes or specs are extremely hard to pin down or kill in spite of getting focused. Concealment ops obviously top this list, but mercs justifiably have a place on it, and that is what I meant by pretending to see in my case: even though this point is very well known, some people react with almost surprise or outrage that it keeps getting brought up.

 

Yes, we have respectaqble damage and burst, but when you say respectable, that tells me it isnt something you fear. Again it comes down to style... you counter one different than the other.

Smaller problem to whom?

And i never said we didnt have a place on that list, the style is difficult for many to counter, but those that do it right shut us down as easily as your sorc example. If we were this godly you would see us all over ranked, but do you? We are annoying, we are not godly.

If you could pick your best 4 man team, would a merc be on it? Be honest.

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