. I guess learning from other's mistakes IS A GOOD IDEA.

Another idea is checking the forums for existing already more robust threads on the same topic as yours before posting---> https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=995320

Have fun!

Just reminding that star wars galaxies died right after New Game enhancements patch was provided. This patch simplified pretty much in the game which led to loyal players quitting the game. Later one of game developers had stated that this patch was a big mistake ( https://gyazo.com/0eb19004e411c10edb9ef4bba0f451c3 ). I guess learning from other's mistakes IS A GOOD IDEA.

That's not the only example... WoW did ability pruning which resulted in a massive outcry from the player base to the extent that they brought some of the abilities back...

I can understand combining some effects for weak abilities that are taking a key bind slot but removing access to abilities entirely...that is never received well.

Making character builds in an RPG simplistic and/or cookie cutter is counter intuitive to the game type...

Re: the thread title. According to the forumites of the time, SWTOR was already dead, never mind "dying", on the day it launched.

Also, here's something I posted on the GW2 forums:

"game is dying" is (or should be) a generic meme in all MMORPG forums, even to the extent of things like

• Game released today: "Game is dying."
  
• Game released yesterday: "Game is dying."
  
• Game just released a new expansion, all the servers are jam-packed with players: "Game is dying."
  
• Game will release in two weeks: "Game is dead."
  

SWTOR has already outlasted SWG in terms of staying power. SWG only lasted 8 years before it was shut down, while SWTOR is soon to celebrate its 10th anniversary.

To be fair SWG was shut down due to the inevitable launch of SWTOR and the Disney contract w/ EA. It may have continued on if not for the rights being changed for the IP.

That said there were 3 versions of SWG and the first two had infinitely more potential than the version that lingered on for many years after... A games fun level/quality doesn't always dictate its longevity especially in the case of SWG.

To be fair SWG was shut down due to the inevitable launch of SWTOR and the Disney contract w/ EA. It may have continued on if not for the rights being changed for the IP.

 

That said there were 3 versions of SWG and the first two had infinitely more potential than the version that lingered on for many years after... A games fun level/quality doesn't always dictate its longevity especially in the case of SWG.

SWG would have definitely lasted longer if not for SWTOR but probably not to any significant degree. At some point another SW online game was an inevitability. If it wasn't SWTOR it would have been something else especially as SWG's numbers began to decline. I mean I remember towards the end of the game's life cycle where they were letting players go through the environments and destroy whatever player-created content that had been inactive because SWG had basically turned it into a virtual Detroit where there was a bunch of housing/structures taking up space that nobody was using.

To be fair SWG was shut down due to the inevitable launch of SWTOR and the Disney contract w/ EA. It may have continued on if not for the rights being changed for the IP.

 

That said there were 3 versions of SWG and the first two had infinitely more potential than the version that lingered on for many years after... A games fun level/quality doesn't always dictate its longevity especially in the case of SWG.

This is incorrect. Clone Wars Adventures, another Star Wars mmo, continued for a couple years after SWTOR launched. The decision to not renew the license wasn't forced by any deal between EA and Disney.

Given the very small playerbase near the end of things for SWG it was probably hard to justify the expense of the Star Wars license.

SWTOR has been in development since 2006 with the original concept being constructed in 2005, which is before Bioware was acquired by EA for that matter.

This is incorrect. Clone Wars Adventures, another Star Wars mmo, continued for a couple years after SWTOR launched. The decision to not renew the license wasn't forced by any deal between EA and Disney.

 

Given the very small playerbase near the end of things for SWG it was probably hard to justify the expense of the Star Wars license.

 

SWTOR has been in development since 2006 with the original concept being constructed in 2005, which is before Bioware was acquired by EA for that matter.

I think you are calling my comments incorrect without knowing the facts but I don't mind. Another issue w/ your assumption surrounds SWG being in direct competition with SWToR with SWG no longer having rights to the SW IP...Look into you'll find the data...I'm not going to dig it up.

SWToR was in development sure...SWG was under an individual contract for the SW IP so other MMORPGS could go into development with no conflict at that time its only when Disney signed complete rights to their IP for games to EA that EA would be interested in forcing the shut down of a game in direct opposition to their flagship MMO release...

I have no Idea what clone wars game you mentioned.

All that said the last iteration of SWG is not on my list of things to defend I just recall reading the details of the SWG shut down when it happened and I believe it was close to what I had described.

Oh and yes I also heard rumors of SWToR all the way back during the CU era...I was told about it by a BH that was chasing me around some random planet with his buddies...in between talking smack we started conversing about Star Wars awesomeness... That has a lot more to do with how contracts for games were dealt with at that time... Was Bioware even a part of EA at that time?...not sure they were being purchased in Oct. 2007.

The guys who did SWG have also done an interview in the past explaining that no, it wasn't because of SWTOR.

The reason i brought up the other Star Wars MMO is because quite obviously multiple Star Wars MMOs can and have existed at the same time.

EA's contract with Disney to be an exclusive SW developer for new PC games began in 2013, 2 years after SWG shut down.

There was not an exclusivity arrangement for SWTOR at the time of its launch.

I've heard that when a thing happens to an earlier game, it's absolutely going to happen to a later game the designers of which do an arguably similar thing. Because we all know that's true, amirite?

I mean, maybe SWTOR will "die" & maybe it won't, but would it kill people to wait & see?

For that matter Disney acquired LucasArts/Star Wars at the end of 2012. But these rumors about SWG have been floating for years.

Mutually agreed upon closure SOE/Lucas games...That said no details were given. Either way it makes me sad to think about old SWG so I'm done. You win or whatever floats your speeder.

The swtor dev team should really watch this video from the creators of SWG, which includes Richard Vogal (one of the original BioWare guys).

It’s a synopsis and post-mortem of what went right, but what also went horribly wrong with SWG.

Included is the NGE expansion that culled 25% of the player base in a month because they made changes players didn’t like.

(You know, like the planned ability changes on the PTS)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Nj0qmxxEC7U&feature=youtu.be

Fellow swtor lovers. Please feel free to try and get the BioWare to watch this video and hopefully learn from the mistakes the guys working on SWG made with their NGE expansion before they make a similar mistake with swtor.

The swtor dev team should really watch this video from the creators of SWG, which includes Richard Vogal (one of the original BioWare guys).

 

It’s a synopsis and post-mortem of what went right, but what also went horribly wrong with SWG.

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Nj0qmxxEC7U&feature=youtu.be

 

As i mentioned in the other same topic (longer) thread, i had the great pleasure of corresponding with Mr. Raph Koster aka the *architect* (briefly thru PM's) during my 5 years on-Staff QA at the original (and still going) 'SWGEmu Project' .

In my opinion, he is an absolute genius. (flaws & hubris & all )

Anyways, back to the nuanced & neverending debate of how/why SWG had to go byebye .... /sigh

Another idea is checking the forums for existing already more robust threads on the same topic as yours before posting---> https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=995320

 

Have fun!

well, it's so obvious for everyone (except developers) that it's been repeated a few times. Most of players on forum confirmed their negative thoughts regarding pruning/simplifying the game but devs are too stubborn and clearly decided to drive away loyal players from the game

Most of players on forum confirmed their negative thoughts regarding pruning/simplifying the game but devs are too stubborn and clearly decided to drive away loyal players from the game

I hear ya and, as beta subscriber for 10+ years, i'm not exactly "thrilled" at the 7.0 revamp either (at least, from the little we know so far) but the notion that BioWare Developers are sitting around twisting their little evil code-mustaches making a conscious "decision" to drive away the very same players who literally make their employment po$$ible is utterly ridiculous (and typical paranoid gamer conspiracrying fluff ) .

Instead, consider the obvious: They are humans with hubris.

And they take orders from EA , a corporation that couldn't care less about "loyalty" .

Therefore, the umm "balance" BioWare truly has to discover (hopefully with feedback from our community) is how to weigh keeping their jobs with satisfying personal code creativity AND satisfying a furious, fragile, & fractured playerbase.

Lucky # 7.0 , eh?

I hear ya and, as beta subscriber for 10+ years, i'm not exactly "thrilled" at the 7.0 revamp either (at least, from the little we know so far) but the notion that BioWare Developers are sitting around twisting their little evil code-mustaches making a conscious "decision" to drive away the very same players who literally make their employment po$$ible is utterly ridiculous (and typical paranoid gamer conspiracrying fluff ) .

 

Instead, consider the obvious: They are humans with hubris.

 

And they take orders from EA , a corporation that couldn't care less about "loyalty" .

 

Therefore, the umm "balance" BioWare truly has to discover (hopefully with feedback from our community) is how to weigh keeping their jobs with satisfying personal code creativity AND satisfying a furious, fragile, & fractured playerbase.

 

Lucky # 7.0 , eh?

Thank You !!

(as strange as it may sound) I agree with your assessment !!

Change ?? IMO that is the inevitable part of any game (particularly MMO's) . The industry itself has changed and will continue to do so ! Just exactly how these newly proposed changes will affect the game? As you have suggested: I'm not exactly excited over them either !!!

** Not touching them at all right now ?? (Not a bad idea .. but unlikely the case)

** Using the current proposed system (following what we've seen thus far) ... Not exactly a bell ringer either !!

** 3RD OPTION: Listen / reassess / complete a new "TRIAL" for each class and review BEFORE release. (this would be MY preference !)

To be fair SWG was shut down due to the inevitable launch of SWTOR and the Disney contract w/ EA. It may have continued on if not for the rights being changed for the IP.

SWTOR launched in 2011, the deal between EA and Disney was made in 2013. So I don't know what the Disney contract had to do with it.