You can have a reasonable conversation without turning it into an argument. Edited December 5, 2021 by TonyTricicolo

 

Existing Characters and Combat Styles

[*]As Jackie posted, we fully intended for current characters to be able to choose a preferred Combat Style upon logging in for Game Update 7.0. We have worked for some time to try and make this happen, but recently ran into some technical hurdles that unfortunately prevents us from supporting this. So, as a result, when you log into the game after 7.0, your primary Combat Style will be your current Advanced Class. Choosing your Advanced Class was designed to be a permanent choice, and we will continue this with Combat Styles. We have no current plans to introduce a method to change one of your Combat Styles.

 

 

So does this mean that my current Commando, whom I have had for the past 10 years, can NOT be a Mercenary Now?

 

I love the play style of the Merc/Mando, but I have never liked the Big Gun and was Super excited about changing this when this was announced.

 

If this is the case, it's real hard to not feel like I am taking a back seat to new players that get to take full advantage of this new system.

 

I could reroll again, but lose all the player titles and stuff that i have earned over the years.

 

Maybe if you can't do us right due to techincal issues, perhaps you can make all the "character unlocks" available for "legacy" so that I can reroll a new guy without losing now unobtainable titles and armor sets.

So does this mean that my current Commando, whom I have had for the past 10 years, can NOT be a Mercenary Now?

 

I love the play style of the Merc/Mando, but I have never liked the Big Gun and was Super excited about changing this when this was announced.

 

If this is the case, it's real hard to not feel like I am taking a back seat to new players that get to take full advantage of this new system.

 

I could reroll again, but lose all the player titles and stuff that i have earned over the years.

 

Maybe if you can't do us right due to techincal issues, perhaps you can make all the "character unlocks" available for "legacy" so that I can reroll a new guy without losing now unobtainable titles and armor sets.

 

you will still be able to choose a second combat style - IF you are a subscriber

If this is the case, it's real hard to not feel like I am taking a back seat to new players that get to take full advantage of this new system.

 

Dear Established Player:

You are not as important to us as new players. Frankly, we are surprised you have not realized this before.

Signed, Bioware.

you will still be able to choose a second combat style - IF you are a subscriber

 

The man doesn't want to choose mercenary in addition to commando though. Who in their right mind would WANT to make their second combat style their mirror instead of just switching their first to that mirror instead?

 

I for example would have loved to switch my operative to a scoundrel so that my agent could finally use a pistol, but play the same. Instead I have to spend both my combat styles on what is effectively the exact same class, while newer players can pick any they want.

The man doesn't want to choose mercenary in addition to commando though. Who in their right mind would WANT to make their second combat style their mirror instead of just switching their first to that mirror instead?

 

I just don't understand how it can be done for Force users, but there are unsolvable technical challenges to do it for tech users. Although, strictly speaking, the change for Force users that are existing veteran D5/L5 characters appears to only be possible if the character's alignment doesn't match with the nature of the base class. Its not like ANY force user can change to any other force-based Combat Style (for example, an Assassin changing to Marauder).

 

I just don't understand why the change is possible to swap from Sith Juggernaut Light V to Jedi Guardian Light V, or vice versa for D5, but not any other way.

Hi all,

 

I wanted to jump in and try and clarify some of the potential confusion in this thread.

 

There are two different topics here: The ability for existing players to change the Combat Style upon logging in to the 7.0 Game Update, and the rules around characters with Force Origin Stories when they are offered an option to swap Combat Styles with their opposite-aligned mirror.

 

Existing Characters and Combat Styles

• As Jackie posted, we fully intended for current characters to be able to choose a preferred Combat Style upon logging in for Game Update 7.0. We have worked for some time to try and make this happen, but recently ran into some technical hurdles that unfortunately prevents us from supporting this. So, as a result, when you log into the game after 7.0, your primary Combat Style will be your current Advanced Class. Choosing your Advanced Class was designed to be a permanent choice, and we will continue this with Combat Styles. We have no current plans to introduce a method to change one of your Combat Styles.
  
• As we previously stated, the ability to have a second Combat Style and the additional Loadouts that come with it are features for active subscribers. Related to this topic, we did see a question being asked of “what happens to my second Combat Style if my subscription lapses?”. In short, your “second” Combat Style will become unusable including its Loadouts. Note the quotations around the word second. If your subscription lapses, your useable Combat Style will be the one you last logged out on when the cancellation hits your account. This means that if you log out on your primary Combat Style, you will continue to be able to play with that one and its Loadouts. If you log out on your secondary Combat Style, you will continue to be able to play with that one and its Loadouts. Essentially, whichever Combat Style is active when your sub lapses is the one you will continue to use when you log back in.
  

 

Force Origin Story Considerations

• Force Origin Stories have some special considerations, since there are some restrictions in Combat Style choice that Tech Origin Stories do not share.
  
• To a brand new player, or a player who has not unlocked their Dark V/Light V achievements in their Legacy (Legacy of Sacrifice and Legacy of Unity), they are not presented with the option to choose an opposite-aligned Combat Style at character create nor when they unlock their second Combat Style, with one exception:
  
  • If a player without these unlocks has been playing their character with opposite aligned morality, such as a Jedi Origin Story as a Dark Side character, or a Sith Origin Story as a Light Side character, they will receive the option to swap their current Combat Style to the opposite alignment equivalent upon completing their Act 3 story. In addition, when they are prompted to select their second Combat Style, they will have all Force Combat Styles available to them.
    

  [*]Force Origin Story players who have already unlocked Light V/Dark V achievements will not see any restrictions, and all Combat Styles are available to them at both character create and when choosing their second Combat Style

 

There has been no change in the design of the Force Origin Story Considerations, which was first shared in this post. You can listen to me talking about all of these restrictions, and expand on why and the philosophy behind these decisions in the linked podcast in the post.

 

However, to build upon Jackie’s clarification post here, we wanted to give Force Origin Story players some choice when the 7.0 update releases. So all pre-7.0 Force characters that have opposite alignment to their current class will be given the option to swap their primary combat style to the opposite aligned equivalent upon logging in post-7.0.

 

This means if you are a Jedi Knight or Jedi Consular, and have at least 1 Dark Side point away from 0, you will be given this choice. Likewise, if you are a Sith Warrior or Sith Inquisitor, and have at least 1 Light Side point away from 0, you will be given this choice. This will be regardless of any Legacy unlocks or otherwise. Once that character is in the game, and the swap choice has been made or refused, the rules as described above will still apply.

 

Finally, I wanted to address some comments around my clarifications in Discord about the above topic. What I stated in this post is still true. I have recently been trying to clarify confusion around swapping Force Combat Styles by repeating the same information we revealed in the podcast and linked in the official forums. I will typically include a link to the official sources to reinforce where this information originated from. Any new information around Combat Styles or any other topic will be shared through official channels such as our blogs, the forums, our livestreams, etc… and those mediums will be used to reinforce or clarify any questions being answered elsewhere.

 

Thanks,

-Chris

 

 

Hi,

 

I was just hoping for some clarity regarding the swap for force-origin characters upon release of 7.0. I currently have a dark 5 sith assassin up-to-date with the story, who I was hoping to swap to a jedi shadow as his primary combat style. I have both, light 5 and dark 5 legacy unlocks. If I understood you correctly, however, will I need to get him to the point where he has at least +1 net alignment points before 7.0 launch in order to convert his primary combat style to jedi shadow? Or will the legacy unlocks suffice in converting him? If he remains at dark 5 will I be locked into keeping him an assassin as the primary combat style?

 

Thanks for the communication, a lot of clarity is needed on the matter as I feel like there is a lot of confusion on it.

I just don't understand how it can be done for Force users, but there are unsolvable technical challenges to do it for tech users. Although, strictly speaking, the change for Force users that are existing veteran D5/L5 characters appears to only be possible if the character's alignment doesn't match with the nature of the base class. Its not like ANY force user can change to any other force-based Combat Style (for example, an Assassin changing to Marauder).

 

I just don't understand why the change is possible to swap from Sith Juggernaut Light V to Jedi Guardian Light V, or vice versa for D5, but not any other way.

 

Phalczen, I think the issue is that force users share lightsabers whereas Tech classes use pistols/dual, rifles/snipers, and cannons

Edited December 5, 2021 by TonyTricicolo

Dear Established Player:

You are not as important to us as new players. Frankly, we are surprised you have not realized this before.

Signed, Bioware.

Usually I try to be nice however, this is the only post in this thread that matters.

 

BW really need to learn not to announce new things to get players looking forward to them five months before doing something completely different. The highly promoted choice of abilities from opposing factions/same faction never materialised. Instead we're getting a completely different new thing BUT learn that it excludes most existing player characters. And then a choice is made to announce this a few days before 7.0's release which is diabolical decision making. Then you see the fallout panic post to fire-fight to try and calm everybody and prevent the rage-quits. Judging by all the posts following the two Dev posts, the opposite has happened.

 

Try assessing whether your game can actually do what you think it can before announcing "awesome" that you're "excited about" that in reality can't/won't ever happen. And then PTS the real changes.

 

Many of us aren't out yet, however one more poor announcement and I imagine you will lose your loyal long-time high spending player base. The here-today-gone-tomorrow newbies are just that; they'll be gone as soon as someone else's next new game hype arrives on steam and you'll have no loyal players left to sustain swtor.

 

The story content in 7.0 better be outstanding to compensate for this mess.

This is not an attempt to bury information or hope that no one will notice it.

 

I would hope no one felt this way, but I appreciate the clarification.

 

We're almost there!

I don't think it's beyond unreasonable to be skeptical of a Dev who identifies himself by his profession on a social media venue that is not his company's official method of announcing or answering questions about its product when not all their customer base has access to what they are saying.

 

Of course, private time is private time. No question there. However, Mr. Schmidt doesn't have to announce he's a Dev for BioWare in private chats either. He can take what he hears and sees into work, without confusing and bewildering people. I don't he's done anything wrong, but I do feel its unprofessional.

 

However mature and reasonable people Can Like K-POP and K-Dramas that is a fact! :D:D:D

Phalczen, I think the issue is that force users share lightsabers whereas Tech classes use pistols/dual, rifles/snipers, and cannons

 

Well, it is true that the force using advanced classes that are MIRRORS are unique in that they do not need to alter the mainhand and offhand, compared to tech users. But the differences between a rifle-using Vanguard and a dual pistol wielding Gunslinger do not prohibit you Vanguard TonyTricicolo from taking Gunslinger as your SECOND combat style (as a subscriber). I'm not sure why that is a technical hurdle for allowing you to select your primary Combat Style, but not a problem when you try to swap to your second Combat Style. If it can be done fairly readily outside of phased areas to swap to the second Style, why is it a problem to make that change the first time you log in?

It's my opinion, regardless of what they claim, that they want people to re roll a new toon to "experience" the new leveling system with the new subtraction of classes from story approach reemphasizing the ten year old theme the game is based on...rolling a new alt. I also believe, with no evidence to cite, that they plan to introduce more combat styles off the cartel market. I think they thought they were gonna pull a fast one on people without anyone knowing. So xpac releases, they ignore the drama and go on vacation until end of February then post a heart warming letter to the community. I truly hope I'm wrong. Edited December 5, 2021 by TonyTricicolo

This is not an attempt to bury information or hope that no one will notice it.

I would hope no one felt this way, but I appreciate the clarification.

 

We're almost there!

I thought this and I also said it.

It would have been far better (imo) if Chris S and Jackie K had made their posts in a stickied announcement in the General forums (as a 7.0 update) where most people would see it rather than in the PTS forum. It's an important change that players should be aware of before 7.0 after all. The PTS is over; few players will read the PTS forums (or the Dev Tracker for that matter) unless a link to the two dev posts is put in a thread in General. Being up front in an obvious way tends to get a more positive response, even if the news isn't what we were expecting. I'd have appreciated a "big change to skill choice because [insert reason], sorry guys we couldn't make it work, but we've gone for a second best option" type post in general, much more than what we got.

Edited December 5, 2021 by Sarova

Hi,

 

I was just hoping for some clarity regarding the swap for force-origin characters upon release of 7.0. I currently have a dark 5 sith assassin up-to-date with the story, who I was hoping to swap to a jedi shadow as his primary combat style. I have both, light 5 and dark 5 legacy unlocks. If I understood you correctly, however, will I need to get him to the point where he has at least +1 net alignment points before 7.0 launch in order to convert his primary combat style to jedi shadow? Or will the legacy unlocks suffice in converting him? If he remains at dark 5 will I be locked into keeping him an assassin as the primary combat style?

 

Thanks for the communication, a lot of clarity is needed on the matter as I feel like there is a lot of confusion on it.

 

The legacy unlocks will not suffice, you need to get him to at least +1 net light side score. So best get to farming (warzones and crew skills work nicely).

I thought this and I also said it.

It would have been far better (imo) if Chris S and Jackie K had made their posts in a stickied announcement in the General forums (as a 7.0 update) where most people would see it rather than in the PTS forum. It's an important change that players should be aware of before 7.0 after all. The PTS is over; few players will read the PTS forums (or the Dev Tracker for that matter) unless a link to the two dev posts is put in a thread in General. Being up front in an obvious way tends to get a more positive response, even if the news isn't what we were expecting. I'd have appreciated a "big change to skill choice because [insert reason], sorry guys we couldn't make it work, but we've gone for a second best option" type post in general, much more than what we got.

 

I completely agree with this, a lot of grief and frustration comes from not What is said but How it is said. Any announcements and changes be they good, bad, or otherwise should be put front-and-center, in the most clear and concise language possible.

 

Ms. Ko has a tough job and has handled a lot with grace and dignity to be sure. However, I believe it would behoove the team if they completely re-worked their policies at communicating with us. Mr. Musco and Ms. Ko should come together and not only give the forums a renovation, but also a set schedule of interaction with us.

 

Even if they don't go on about the day-to-day stuff (boring), they can monitor which topic sees the most chatter every week and address it in some way. Or even monthly...

I thought this and I also said it.

It would have been far better (imo) if Chris S and Jackie K had made their posts in a stickied announcement in the General forums (as a 7.0 update) where most people would see it rather than in the PTS forum. It's an important change that players should be aware of before 7.0 after all. The PTS is over; few players will read the PTS forums (or the Dev Tracker for that matter) unless a link to the two dev posts is put in a thread in General. Being up front in an obvious way tends to get a more positive response, even if the news isn't what we were expecting. I'd have appreciated a "big change to skill choice because [insert reason], sorry guys we couldn't make it work, but we've gone for a second best option" type post in general, much more than what we got.

 

Maybe they don't want to post about this in general chat. Maybe they want to appear to care, and to be able to point out how they responded to questions while still keeping the majority of people in the dark about what they are doing for as long as possible.

 

I agree that they should have posted and stickied the announcement, but they should have done more than that.

 

Since the original announcement about the new feature was live streamed with all of the associated hype. They should have also live streamed this announcement, and given a detailed accounting of why they couldn't make good on their hyped-up statement.

 

They got people excited about a new feature, and people made decisions on how to spend their time and money based on statements made by them. The least they should have done is given more than a non-apology apology and lackluster explanations like the ones that we received. I think they should have put as much effort into explaining their failure as they did making the original announcement.

Maybe they don't want to post about this in general chat. Maybe they want to appear to care, and to be able to point out how they responded to questions while still keeping the majority of people in the dark about what they are doing for as long as possible.

 

While I understand being upset and not naive enough to forget that every company an agenda, I am wary of invoking pure unethical malice in the situation. Let me be clear I am not happy about having to re-roll my JK! I'm not trying to 'white Knight' and make excuses here. They screwed up big-time!

 

However, assigning sinister motives without proof doesn't help us, and doesn't make them do their jobs better.

 

I do believe we deserve some complimentary Master's Datacron's and Companion Compendiums as compensation for the frustration of broken promises however unintended they might have been.

No insinuations but it has become a very common practice to release unfinished products to meet deadlines. Not saying 7.0 is as bad as say Anthem, or Cyberpunk or even GTA Definitive edition. I am saying that people are tired of the whole thing in general. This half *** approach has got to stop. You buy a car as advertised. You don't go home with the chassis and they ship you the engine later. This concept of stringing along the customer is terrible. Edited December 5, 2021 by TonyTricicolo

Hi all,

 

I wanted to jump in and try and clarify some of the potential confusion in this thread.

 

There are two different topics here: The ability for existing players to change the Combat Style upon logging in to the 7.0 Game Update, and the rules around characters with Force Origin Stories when they are offered an option to swap Combat Styles with their opposite-aligned mirror.

 

Existing Characters and Combat Styles

• As Jackie posted, we fully intended for current characters to be able to choose a preferred Combat Style upon logging in for Game Update 7.0. We have worked for some time to try and make this happen, but recently ran into some technical hurdles that unfortunately prevents us from supporting this. So, as a result, when you log into the game after 7.0, your primary Combat Style will be your current Advanced Class. Choosing your Advanced Class was designed to be a permanent choice, and we will continue this with Combat Styles. We have no current plans to introduce a method to change one of your Combat Styles.
  
• As we previously stated, the ability to have a second Combat Style and the additional Loadouts that come with it are features for active subscribers. Related to this topic, we did see a question being asked of “what happens to my second Combat Style if my subscription lapses?”. In short, your “second” Combat Style will become unusable including its Loadouts. Note the quotations around the word second. If your subscription lapses, your useable Combat Style will be the one you last logged out on when the cancellation hits your account. This means that if you log out on your primary Combat Style, you will continue to be able to play with that one and its Loadouts. If you log out on your secondary Combat Style, you will continue to be able to play with that one and its Loadouts. Essentially, whichever Combat Style is active when your sub lapses is the one you will continue to use when you log back in.
  

 

Force Origin Story Considerations

• Force Origin Stories have some special considerations, since there are some restrictions in Combat Style choice that Tech Origin Stories do not share.
  
• To a brand new player, or a player who has not unlocked their Dark V/Light V achievements in their Legacy (Legacy of Sacrifice and Legacy of Unity), they are not presented with the option to choose an opposite-aligned Combat Style at character create nor when they unlock their second Combat Style, with one exception:
  
  • If a player without these unlocks has been playing their character with opposite aligned morality, such as a Jedi Origin Story as a Dark Side character, or a Sith Origin Story as a Light Side character, they will receive the option to swap their current Combat Style to the opposite alignment equivalent upon completing their Act 3 story. In addition, when they are prompted to select their second Combat Style, they will have all Force Combat Styles available to them.
    

  [*]Force Origin Story players who have already unlocked Light V/Dark V achievements will not see any restrictions, and all Combat Styles are available to them at both character create and when choosing their second Combat Style

 

There has been no change in the design of the Force Origin Story Considerations, which was first shared in this post. You can listen to me talking about all of these restrictions, and expand on why and the philosophy behind these decisions in the linked podcast in the post.

 

However, to build upon Jackie’s clarification post here, we wanted to give Force Origin Story players some choice when the 7.0 update releases. So all pre-7.0 Force characters that have opposite alignment to their current class will be given the option to swap their primary combat style to the opposite aligned equivalent upon logging in post-7.0.

 

This means if you are a Jedi Knight or Jedi Consular, and have at least 1 Dark Side point away from 0, you will be given this choice. Likewise, if you are a Sith Warrior or Sith Inquisitor, and have at least 1 Light Side point away from 0, you will be given this choice. This will be regardless of any Legacy unlocks or otherwise. Once that character is in the game, and the swap choice has been made or refused, the rules as described above will still apply.

 

Finally, I wanted to address some comments around my clarifications in Discord about the above topic. What I stated in this post is still true. I have recently been trying to clarify confusion around swapping Force Combat Styles by repeating the same information we revealed in the podcast and linked in the official forums. I will typically include a link to the official sources to reinforce where this information originated from. Any new information around Combat Styles or any other topic will be shared through official channels such as our blogs, the forums, our livestreams, etc… and those mediums will be used to reinforce or clarify any questions being answered elsewhere.

 

Thanks,

-Chris

 

 

Okay, so:

1. Current toon, has an advanced class already. That class is locked in. By "advanced class," I mean "Sith Assassin," "Jedi Sage," "Scoundrel," etc.

2. Said toon, logs in and gets to choose a second advanced class (restricted by Force/Tech). Once chosen, that AC is locked in permanently as well.

3. However, within the AC, users will still be able to swap "combat proficiencies" right? (E.g. Sage can swap heals or DPS, Assassin can swap tank/dps, etc.?)

Okay, so:

3. However, within the AC, users will still be able to swap "combat proficiencies" right? (E.g. Sage can swap heals or DPS, Assassin can swap tank/dps, etc.?)

 

From what I understand and have seen from PTS footage, yes. Utilities are going away though, replaced with a skill tree of sorts that forces certain choices of abilities and passives for those abilities (ex. Watchman having to pick things to modify Force Melt, etc.).

No insinuations but it has become a very common practice to release unfinished products to meet deadlines. Not saying 7.0 is as bad as say Anthem, or Cyberpunk or even GTA Definitive edition. I am saying that people are tired of the whole thing in general. This half *** approach has got to stop. You buy a car as advertised. You don't go home with the chassis and they ship you the engine later. This concept of stringing along the customer is terrible.

 

Agreed, although the devs can't do anything about that.

But they should probably not make promises that they can't deliver, and no matter how you want to spin it, forcing people to make new characters to take advantage of the new features fully on a 10yo game is... not good practice.

I honestly believe that they thought they could do what they said. I can't blame them for an unforeseeable glitch. However, the way they handled announcing it, and the confusion over information being funneled from multiple non-official sources was badly done. I think they should just give Ms. Ko and Mr. Musco free reign to overhaul the communication policies.

For the ones that think that combat styles was something that the people on the forum made up:

 

Starts at 14:48

 

 

Been talked about since July 2021.

A couple questions. Why are locking this class system behind a subscription? Secondly is all 7.0 content locked behind a subscription outside of the original sub unlock? The way it works now is you sub to get access to an exppansion(s) and it's unlocked permamently, is that changing with 7.0?