First, please excuse in advance my non idiomatic non native speaker English language.

Above all else, the skills pruning is a matter of honesty.

The point is, Bioware lost some of the developers on the SWTOR team who were either reassigned to other projects or left the studio.

And we all know that from the point of view of human resources management, management consists above all in combining the peculiarities of each individual by placing each in his comfort zone so that without people even realizing it, they all go in the same direction.

Bioware has lived, like other studios which are in turmoil, a particularly difficult year. EA's strategic choices displease both players and developers, whose each passing day they are forced to move away a little more from their profession in favor of a creation exclusively focused on marketing and profitability at all price.

Pruning the combat abilities of player characters is above all a way of leaving whole blocks of code abandoned that no one can maintain because the people who coded them are no longer there and because the we know in advance that in the future we will have fewer developers available to maintain the code.

SWTOR will survive in the cartel market, and on new content, never looking back, leaving bugs that have been present from the start of the game forever.

The day Disney decides that the SW license must be transferred to another game, SWTOR will be abandoned altogether and the servers shut down, without the slightest consideration for the players who will have invested in it for some of them more than 10 years of their free time.

@Bioware: we beg you: don't insult our intelligence by using elements of corporate language to hide behind the scenes. Honesty is a mark of respect for the players, who are also your customers.

Make it clear to us that you can't or don't want to allocate so many resources to maintaining SWTOR anymore, instead of telling us that it's for easier access to the game.

The game is very easy to play. There are tons of game guides, in all languages, and guilds that are happy to explain the mechanics of the game to their new members.

Please don't treat us like we are naive and totally ignorant of the reality of the video game world. We know it well, we live in it. On the other side of the screen, sure, but just as much inside as you are.

First, please excuse in advance my non idiomatic non native speaker English language.

Your English is fine.

Above all else, the skills pruning is a matter of honesty.

Sounds like you're going to have to explain that.

The point is, Bioware lost some of the developers on the SWTOR team who were either reassigned to other projects or left the studio.

Shrug. That happens in the software development industry, whether for games or other things.

For reference, I've worked as a programmer / developer / software engineer for more than thirty years.

And we all know that from the point of view of human resources management, management consists above all in combining the peculiarities of each individual by placing each in his comfort zone so that without people even realizing it, they all go in the same direction.

In my experience, no, that's not what HR does. It's not what line managers do either.

OK, yes, as a manager you have to be aware of what people like doing and what they don't like doing, and I did at one point have a manager who recognised that I was bored out of my skull and arranged a transfer to a different team, but if you're a manager in that position, you move the person because it's better to keep the person and his/her experience and knowledge and skills in a different part of your company than to lose that knowledge to another company.

Bioware has lived, like other studios which are in turmoil, a particularly difficult year.

Duh. Our darling Covid has messed with pretty much all aspects of all jobs. Fifteen months of five days a week on work-from-home, combined with not being able to go out at weekends except for shopping and brief exercise, well, let's just say that it wasn't my mostest favouritest fifteen months.

EA's strategic choices displease both players and developers, whose each passing day they are forced to move away a little more from their profession in favor of a creation exclusively focused on marketing and profitability at all price.

Gee, a corporation that thinks its main goal is making money, whatever next.

Pruning the combat abilities of player characters is above all a way of leaving whole blocks of code abandoned that no one can maintain because the people who coded them are no longer there and because the we know in advance that in the future we will have fewer developers available to maintain the code.

Sorry, I don't get this. There are problems in any old codebase that arise from lack of maintenance, whether it's a game or a firewall or a word processor. And if I dig into the commit logs in my current company's git repository, there are files that were first committed to CVS in 2006, then transferred to Subversion, then *I* modified them in 2009 or 2010, and later they were transferred to git. Nobody knows when these files were created except that it was after 1999 when the company was founded. All that adds up to say that SWTOR's code is just like the code for any other long-:lived project, full of oddities and holes and parts that nobody who's left understands. (Or maybe it's like parts of my company's code base, you know, the bits that only I understand, and I only dimly remember because I wrote them twelve years ago. At least I leave behind big blocks of comments that are written in clear, fluent complete-sentence English rather than the somewhat erratic and universally brief and incomplete comments my colleagues write, often in English of questionable quality, what with the office being in France and all.)

Pruning ability sets doesn't leave "whole blocks of code abandoned". Maybe those blocks of code (the ones that drive this or that ability that's no longer in the game) get deleted, but they don't get left there just taking up space.

SWTOR will survive in the cartel market, and on new content, never looking back, leaving bugs that have been present from the start of the game forever.

Shrug, yeah, just like any other large software project.

The day Disney decides that the SW license must be transferred to another game, SWTOR will be abandoned altogether and the servers shut down, without the slightest consideration for the players who will have invested in it for some of them more than 10 years of their free time.

True, but so what? Any time an on-line game closes, there's stuff like that. (I've heard stories about the final days of SWG, for example, and I played Devilian for a while before it, too, shut down.)

@Bioware: we beg you: don't insult our intelligence by using elements of corporate language to hide behind the scenes. Honesty is a mark of respect for the players, who are also your customers.

Sound advice.

Make it clear to us that you can't or don't want to allocate so many resources to maintaining SWTOR anymore, instead of telling us that it's for easier access to the game.

The game is very easy to play. There are tons of game guides, in all languages, and guilds that are happy to explain the mechanics of the game to their new members.

The endless threads about how impossible the Vaylin fight (or SoV, or the Copero Guardian Droid, or ...) is, well, they speak against what you say here.

Steve summarized nicely pretty much everything I would say on the subject of development (also a software developer), and I really got to question the word choice of "honesty"

At no point in this process have they broken a promise or been untruthful about abilities. They are under no obligation to maintain the status quo.

There are also more reasons to trim the abilities than just code maintenance. The CS system is more focused and easier to learn and gives incentive for players to roll alts, effectively revitalizing a large swath of the game for them (for a bit at least)

It also paves the way for adding completely new CSs (which would have been basically impossible with the old class/AC system)

Pruning the combat abilities of player characters is above all a way of leaving whole blocks of code abandoned that no one can maintain because the people who coded them are no longer there and because the we know in advance that in the future we will have fewer developers available to maintain the code.

I doubt this is the driving reason for pruning only because it creates massive balance headaches that, at BW's speed and being low on dev resources/time, would take an inordinate amount of time and cause more players to abandon their game b/c their beloved classes are broken.

it's possible. I don't have any secret insight. but I doubt it's a major motivator.

Is it just me, or does this really seem to boil down to yet another 'the game is dying' thread?

Not quite that bad, just another "I'm not happy with the direction of 7.0" thread

Not quite that bad, just another "I'm not happy with the direction of 7.0" thread

the two most popular reactions to change are...

1. OMG! I hate this! I'm comfortable where I am. (this is a natural reaction to change)
   
2. OMG! This change can't come fast enough. I hate where I am right now! (this is a natural reaction to change)
   

I usually fall into category number one. I continue to hate the fundamental changes that split the shared spec philosophy of each Advanced Class. I despise what they did to PTs when the way they made AP relevant was to basically swap it around with Pyro. Arenas. Almost every iteration of gearing and gear gating. The list goes on. I've left the game a couple times after being fed up over one or more of these.

on the flip side, I loved Legion over on WoW and I absolutely despised BFA. I felt insulted and left before even getting into M+ and normal raids (most gearing and borrowed power systems anger). so I came back to SWTOR and figured eh. at least I know what I'm getting into.

leave SWTOR at the end of 5.x for the launch of Shadowlands, and Shadowlands made me long for the last patch of BFA. couldn't run back to SWTOR fast enough. now I'm in SWTOR and thinking...this is patently ridiculous. there's obvious problems with classes having too many DCDs/utilities. I'm sorry that some ppl are accustomed to their favorite class' abilities. I know how these things come to feel like the most basic, bare bones things for you and losing them feels like a betrayal and all. But some of this **** has to go.

So yes, I'm now back into group number 2: anything has to be better than all of this desync and ridiculously long-lived dps specs that are tankier than some tanks or can live absurdly long w/o a guard or healer in sight. will the changes actually fix these issues? eh. I have no faith in BW whatsoever. But I'll take any drastic change to this garbage for another 2-3 years.

The issue for a lot of us who’ve been here forever is we can see from the pts that the changes they are making to certain classes will have zero affect to fix the performance issues like Desync.

Ie, excessive speed abilities, gap closing abilities, immunities, stuns, mez and multiple operative rolls have mostly been left alone.

Stuns are the only thing from that list that has had anything done to it and that’s only on Warriors. Every other class has kept them.

Instead Bioware have gone after iconic DCDs and abilities that have negligible affect on the games performance.

I feel as many do that if BioWares main reasons for the pruning was to fix performance or even get rid of useless abilities that are hardly used in any format, we’d suck it up and accept that.

But that’s not what they are doing and anyone whose tested knows that these changes will make no difference to the performance and there are abilities remaining that are useless as well.

BioWare haven’t been honest with why they are making these changes and I think that’s what the OP is getting at. As usual BioWare have come up with a slogan like play your way or in this case have more customisation to hide their real reasons for the changes. Neither of which are true.

My moneys still on the Steam Deck theory and possible Xbox port next year. It’s the only thing that makes business sense when you consider these changes will likely cause heaps of people to leave. And let’s not forget there is a high probability that these changes will break many parts of the game with unforeseen bugs and terrible balance.

BioWare are spending a lot of money and resources by making these changes and doing very little to add new content by comparison. So the only way I see this business plan working is if they expect an big influx of untapped players to the game to offset the potential loss of the current paying players. Ie, Steam Deck and possible Xbox compatibility in the future.

BioWare haven’t been honest with why they are making these changes and I think that’s what the OP is getting at. As usual BioWare have come up with a slogan like play your way or in this case have more customisation to hide their real reasons for the changes. Neither of which are true.

My gut feeling as well

My moneys still on the Steam Deck theory and possible Xbox port next year. It’s the only thing that makes business sense when you consider these changes will likely cause heaps of people to leave. And let’s not forget there is a high probability that these changes will break many parts of the game with unforeseen bugs and terrible balance.[/Quote]

 

Considering past issues and the fact they have less resources, I can not see them recoding almost the entire game in time for the xpac drop.

 

BioWare are spending a lot of money and resources by making these changes and doing very little to add new content by comparison. So the only way I see this business plan working is if they expect an big influx of untapped players to the game to offset the potential loss of the current paying players. Ie, Steam Deck and possible Xbox compatibility in the future.

 

Maybe they actually do plan to add new Combat Styles and this opens the path to do so. No need for new story lines but just their patented quick back round blurbs we have seen with the reintroduction of so many of our legacy companions.

 

I do feel they have other plans like you are hinting and are not telling us though.

 

So yes, I'm now back into group number 2: anything has to be better than all of this desync and ridiculously long-lived dps specs that are tankier than some tanks or can live absurdly long w/o a guard or healer in sight. will the changes actually fix these issues? eh. I have no faith in BW whatsoever. But I'll take any drastic change to this garbage for another 2-3 years.

That awkward moment when you realize Mercs are keeping all of their DCDs.

That awkward moment when you realize Mercs are keeping all of their DCDs.

1st off, I agree that mercs need to be forced to choose between 40% return heals on shield and 60% kolto/adrenaline heal. (they have to keep reflect b/c it's the only way to force guard swaps, and every class has one of those).

and it sounds like BW is nerfing some stuff in the right area (stuns) but not others for which stuns are required (mobility).

I don't know. I've said all along that I don't trust BW to make good balance changes. and they certainly don't care to re-balance in a timely fashion (for whatever reasons).

as far as the stuns issue is concerned, my guess is that a large majority of players have complained about "stun wars" since the inception of the game, and now the devil is granting their wish. this wouldn't be the first time it's been done in swtor. this all goes back to power creep again. BW's general M.O. is to "fix" by increasing the power creep. so if you're going to nerf stuns w/o nerfing mobility/immunity, then you're exacerbating the problem. again: "I've said all along that I don't trust BW to make good balance changes. and they certainly don't care to re-balance in a timely fashion (for whatever reasons)."

the same can be said of the dcd nerf to guardians. look man, guardians are ungodly in regs. they just are. whether it's skanks or even vengeance, they take a ton of dmg and have a lot of CC and CC immunity. the comedy of that is they're the worst class to take into solo ranked as dps. so yeah. cut into their dcds balances the poop-show that is reg WZs, but holy hell! what have you just done to them in ranked???

I would love detailed answers about why certain changes are made and not others. I do realize that the ppl raging about X ability are (for the most part) emotionally acting out and lack the knowledge/skill to understand what effect their "demands" will have. but at the same time...I mean...the clipped, one sentence explanations and lack of discussion about the thought process that took BW 2-3 years to make this one change is insulting.

but at the same time...I mean...the clipped, one sentence explanations and lack of discussion about the thought process that took BW 2-3 years to make this one change is insulting.

You’re absolutely correct. It does come across as insulting.

*snip*

Good stuff, and I agree with most of what you said. Their silence is deafening. Contrary to what it might seem like I'm actually open to change so long as it's done right. That line about ridiculously long lived DPS specs just made me laugh out loud given the fact that Mercs can have all of their DCDs lol.

Mind you, I don't think Mercs are OP on live. I think most classes are fairly well balanced. I do however think Mercs are uniquely positioned to rule 7.0 since they received the least modification of all classes.

DPS Juggs and PTs have very similar uptime. Juggs get a few more seconds of life under similar focus fire, but we lack the damage they do. Overall though, survivability is merely seconds apart. Personally I've never encountered a DPS Jugg in Ranked / Regs and thought to myself "I can't win this fight". I just dismantle them and move on. I must be missing whatever it is you see.

Regardless, I don't actually have a problem with Bioware nerfing DCDs so long as they nerf them equally, retain class identity, and overall feel in combat. Essentially have a plan. Their execution has been ham fisted at best, and I don't buy their explanation as to why.

Ultimately they just need to exercise some finesse when it comes to rebalancing classes. Throwing a Marauder into a reg warzone with no CC, no Undying Rage, no Mad Dash, a Predation that barely gives any movement speed, and no self heals against a Merc with 5.x DCDs and double rocket out is a prime example of what not to do when it comes to rebalancing classes.

Another company (Rhymes with Lizard / Smak-ti-vision) used to revamp all classes and specs EVERY expansion. Needless to say, this led to plenty of folks seeking FOTM, and subsequent massive patching / reworking of abilities. (Some core abilities getting buffed 20%. <<-- Not a typo)

Change, simply for change sake, is not always a positive outcome. Often said change is net neutral at best, or deleterious at worse.

We saw them do this with in game currencies. We saw them do this with crafting materials. We currently are at the point where it's not practical to keep adding new combat abilities. In order to add new abilities in the future (assuming there will be a few more years and a couple more expansions for SWTOR), the current combat system (available abilities) needs pruning.

I'm not saying I don't like the current setup or amount of abilities we have. I do. I'm not looking forward to a large reduction. But I understand that they can't just keep adding more abilities every time the level cap is raised. I don't believe this is about game performance. It's just a matter of being at the point where we'd need more quickbar slots cluttering the screen.

We've seen them remove a couple abilities from classes altogether and then as new abilities came out, some of those "replaced" older abilities. It appears they are just at the point where they feel pruning is in order to allow addition later (like they did with currencies and mats).