Seems to me that when you end up with a team that has half good players vs half good players and the rest of both teams are mediocre. A bunch of good players from one team leave and the back fill is all rubbish. It’s nearly always small premades doing it.

So, is it just the usual rage quitters leaving when they don’t see all good players on their team (which shouldn’t happen with match making) or are they playing the system to stack teams with good vs bad back fill teams.

So many matches where I see a bunch of good people leave before the match, usually 10 secs before the start and they’ve been standing there for over a minute. Then the match starts with 5-6 people and the back fills are terrible players.

This is really f’ing up the already messed up matchmaking system more than it needs to and is totally ruining matches that could have been competitive. The matches then turn into complete one sided affairs that end up with teams triple capping all because a bunch of good players at the start rage quite.

Ive never been a fan of penalising people for not accepting pops or rage quitting. God knows I’ve done it myself plenty of times. But for this new system to have half a chance of working, maybe it’s something they need to think about to stop this happening.

Either that or they don’t start matches until both teams are full. ie

Team A has 4 people leave just before the match starts. So the timer stops till the 4 back fills happen. The back fills also shouldn’t be random. The queue should look at the other team and replace the back fills with equally skilled players.

What do you guys think?

sigh.

trixxie that is exactly what happens. backfill system prioritize high elo players for selection.

just stop worrying about the "ghost" elo. it doesnt matter. at all. you cant see it, you cant manipulate what you cant see and its pointless to worry about it.

I will let anyone believe whatever they wish but Im 90% sure no one will ever see any kind of skill balance in regs. it would basically be 8v8 ranked back.. which it isnt. that means whatever they did is some sort of halfassed attempt to applease people.

sigh.

 

trixxie that is exactly what happens. backfill system prioritize high elo players for selection.

 

just stop worrying about the "ghost" elo. it doesnt matter. at all. you cant see it, you cant manipulate what you cant see and its pointless to worry about it.

 

I will let anyone believe whatever they wish but Im 90% sure no one will ever see any kind of skill balance in regs. it would basically be 8v8 ranked back.. which it isnt. that means whatever they did is some sort of halfassed attempt to applease people.

How do you know that. Bioware have not posted how this secret ELO works. Remember this isn’t ranked. It’s reg 8v8

I dont know anything about this elo, and neither does anyone else. no one is profiting off being kept in the dark.

as for why I would assume its a halfass 8v8R imitation? because bioware claimed whatever it was existed before its just more tangable now, 8v8R was the last time the various "reg wzs" had an elo system tied into them.

remember in videogames nothing is ever truely deleted, it may become corrupted from too many new processes running over it, but make no mistake... non bolstered story planets/expertise stat/companions actually using gear, all of this still exists sleeping under new code. all they have to do is bring it back from the deadzone.

the point being, unless bioware actually has the funding to make whole new tier/elo processes (doubt it) its just a copy of the original. remember, they said it already existed, there was no word about "new codeing" or "new elo"

I dont know anything about this elo, and neither does anyone else. no one is profiting off being kept in the dark.

They need to elaborate on this supposed hidden ELO.

With no apparent proof of actual matchmaking happening, it's hard to believe it.

Either it's not very effective, it's not in full effect yet, or it has not been implemented with the new patch.

Some transparency would go a long way, and might ease up some of the paranoia and confusion.

I dont know anything about this elo, and neither does anyone else. no one is profiting off being kept in the dark.

 

as for why I would assume its a halfass 8v8R imitation? because bioware claimed whatever it was existed before its just more tangable now, 8v8R was the last time the various "reg wzs" had an elo system tied into them.

 

remember in videogames nothing is ever truely deleted, it may become corrupted from too many new processes running over it, but make no mistake... non bolstered story planets/expertise stat/companions actually using gear, all of this still exists sleeping under new code. all they have to do is bring it back from the deadzone.

 

the point being, unless bioware actually has the funding to make whole new tier/elo processes (doubt it) its just a copy of the original. remember, they said it already existed, there was no word about "new codeing" or "new elo"

Ok, that makes sense. But it still allows these guys to queue and quit and you get backfilled with ****. Remember, the old 8v8 was group and I don’t ever remember teams getting back filled if someone left.

Which means there was nothing in place to backfill similar skilled players (ELO). That didn’t come into effect till solo ranked.

What it looks like to me is it puts the next people who are in the queue and 9/10 times they seem to be **** players because there aren’t many good players left.

The whole matchmaking idea is good, but it’s certainly not working right and I think it’s because the parameters they are using to base skill are faulty or incomplete. Musco said it would take gear into consideration too, but I am yet to see that happen in 8v8 or reg 4v4. So that is obviously borked too.

Now when you have good players in mini premades leave at the start because they don’t pop with better players, this is making it worse because any match making the system was supposed to do, ie good, mediocre and probably bad or Premade on the same team vs the same on the other (the way they said it was supposed to work), means you end up with mainly mediocre - bad vs good, mediocre, Premade (maybe) and bad. It gets even worse if one of those who left is a healer because the other team should have one and may even have two.

Wether these guys are doing it on purpose to play the system or just doing it when they don’t pop with better players, it is destroying what ever little match making the system does.

The more I think about it, the more I’m leaning towards them putting in place a leave penalty. Either they do that or remove the match making altogether and make it more random. Then if people leave, it may not always mean you will get pitted against stronger teams. I’m sure you will be sometimes, but it won’t become a certainty.

The only thing they would need to keep in place is the healer tank restrictions.

They need to elaborate on this supposed hidden ELO.

 

With no apparent proof of actual matchmaking happening, it's hard to believe it.

 

Either it's not very effective, it's not in full effect yet, or it has not been implemented with the new patch.

 

Some transparency would go a long way, and might ease up some of the paranoia and confusion.

Realistically, how many matches have people got where the teams are even close to balanced with skill. Most matches are even more one sided then they use to be.

The only good thing is matches don’t normally have more than 1-2 healers.

Realistically, how many matches have people got where the teams are even close to balanced with skill. Most matches are even more one sided then they use to be.

The only good thing is matches don’t normally have more than 1-2 healers.

I have not been able to play consistently for the past few days, but when I did I noticed no difference in quality of PVP. I have had lopsided matches, good matches, quitters and *******s just like before the changes.

I feel like the matchmaking is a placebo, and until it's explained won't believe otherwise.

I have not been able to play consistently for the past few days, but when I did I noticed no difference in quality of PVP. I have had lopsided matches, good matches, quitters and *******s just like before the changes.

 

I feel like the matchmaking is a placebo, and until it's explained won't believe otherwise.

9/10 of my matches end with people leaving and I’m stuck with people who can’t crack 400k. While the other team farms the **** out of them and end up with 2 mil each.

There is no way those teams are even closely balanced.

I just had an arena and we had all Sorc dps, I had the highest gear (236). 1 had 208 and another 228.

He other team had healer tank combo with Mara and Merc. All had 248 gear.

If that’s balanced, I’ll eat my own ***

Seems to me that when you end up with a team that has half good players vs half good players and the rest of both teams are mediocre. A bunch of good players from one team leave and the back fill is all rubbish. It’s nearly always small premades doing it.

 

So, is it just the usual rage quitters leaving when they don’t see all good players on their team (which shouldn’t happen with match making) or are they playing the system to stack teams with good vs bad back fill teams.

So many matches where I see a bunch of good people leave before the match, usually 10 secs before the start and they’ve been standing there for over a minute. Then the match starts with 5-6 people and the back fills are terrible players.

 

This is really f’ing up the already messed up matchmaking system more than it needs to and is totally ruining matches that could have been competitive. The matches then turn into complete one sided affairs that end up with teams triple capping all because a bunch of good players at the start rage quite.

 

Ive never been a fan of penalising people for not accepting pops or rage quitting. God knows I’ve done it myself plenty of times. But for this new system to have half a chance of working, maybe it’s something they need to think about to stop this happening.

 

Either that or they don’t start matches until both teams are full. ie

Team A has 4 people leave just before the match starts. So the timer stops till the 4 back fills happen. The back fills also shouldn’t be random. The queue should look at the other team and replace the back fills with equally skilled players.

 

What do you guys think?

Seems like you have too much time on your hands... and open threads about everything that happens in the game.

Maybe if you stop having unrealistic expectations of what you want to see in PVP these things you write about won't be so weird to you. If you think they can balance ques based on skill.. you are terribly... naive...

Eric Musco has really good marketing skills. He said something and you totally fell for it, and missed his comment before the patch when he said the matchmaking " will TRY" to make even groups as much as possible. Notice the emphasis on " will TRY".

Rage quitters are that.... rage quitters and the matchmaking system is fine. Most of the time both teams have healers and tanks and that's all the game can do for you. If your team lacks skill... its called bad luck, but no patch or dev can give players skill.

I've told you countless times before cross faction that it won't matter in the end because a lot.. and i mean A LOT Of players in PVP are terrible, no words. The real PVP-ers left.. most of them anyway.

They need to elaborate on this supposed hidden ELO.

 

With no apparent proof of actual matchmaking happening, it's hard to believe it.

 

Either it's not very effective, it's not in full effect yet, or it has not been implemented with the new patch.

 

Some transparency would go a long way, and might ease up some of the paranoia and confusion.

I'm not sure I agree that they should make the "hidden elo" less hidden. But I do wish they would elaborate on the mechanics of how the fills and the backfills work. There was quite a bit of confusion and solicitation for more info about this on the PTS forums, and yet nothing came of it in the way of more information.

Things like...

How long do they wait on enough to fill an 8-man game before they give up and pop an arena?

If they have 16 people queued, and 8 of them are healers, then how long do they wait for the correct dps/healer/tank ratio before they say "heck with it" and pop the 8 man with 4 healers on a side?

When someone quits, does the backfill come from the match-making algorithm, or is it next in the queue? If it tries to match-make, then does that match just the healer/tank role part of it, or also the "skill" part?

I wish they would put role markers in for 8-mans. I probably should know who is what somehow, but I don't until I see what they are doing in matches. And I still see that I don't get it right sometimes, where I figured someone was a healer because I saw them casting heals a couple times... and then from their numbers at the end they were obviously DPS and I just caught them off-healing. Or I know that with my DPS sin/shadow, that the amount of times I off-guard and peel, people sometimes think I am a tank. Plus given the number of "any healers?" and "any tanks?" questions I see pop up at the start of matches, many other people don't know either.

I think those things would help us determine if the match-making is just not working out like we'd hoped, or is in fact bugged. Which would help promote proper feedback, instead of all this guessing.

From what I read in the patch the new system does it best to balance teams but if there is little balance it goes to the best possible matchup it can do based on different parameters so we don't get endless que times waiting for equally skill players to que for the same match.

Sorry kinda mixed some other thread with this one and my answered wasnt for this one but regardless it kinda of applies too.Can't control quitters unless you give some penalty but I don't know if giving a penalty help que times for the rest of us in the long run.

I'm not sure I agree that they should make the "hidden elo" less hidden. But I do wish they would elaborate on the mechanics of how the fills and the backfills work. There was quite a bit of confusion and solicitation for more info about this on the PTS forums, and yet nothing came of it in the way of more information.

 

Things like...

 

How long do they wait on enough to fill an 8-man game before they give up and pop an arena?

 

If they have 16 people queued, and 8 of them are healers, then how long do they wait for the correct dps/healer/tank ratio before they say "heck with it" and pop the 8 man with 4 healers on a side?

 

When someone quits, does the backfill come from the match-making algorithm, or is it next in the queue? If it tries to match-make, then does that match just the healer/tank role part of it, or also the "skill" part?

 

I wish they would put role markers in for 8-mans. I probably should know who is what somehow, but I don't until I see what they are doing in matches. And I still see that I don't get it right sometimes, where I figured someone was a healer because I saw them casting heals a couple times... and then from their numbers at the end they were obviously DPS and I just caught them off-healing. Or I know that with my DPS sin/shadow, that the amount of times I off-guard and peel, people sometimes think I am a tank. Plus given the number of "any healers?" and "any tanks?" questions I see pop up at the start of matches, many other people don't know either.

 

I think those things would help us determine if the match-making is just not working out like we'd hoped, or is in fact bugged. Which would help promote proper feedback, instead of all this guessing.

100% agree.

I can’t understand their reluctance to give us basic information like -

How long do they wait on enough to fill an 8-man game before they give up and pop an arena?

 

If they have 16 people queued, and 8 of them are healers, then how long do they wait for the correct dps/healer/tank ratio before they say "heck with it" and pop the 8 man with 4 healers on a side?

 

When someone quits, does the backfill come from the match-making algorithm, or is it next in the queue? If it tries to match-make, then does that match just the healer/tank role part of it, or also the "skill" part?

There is no reason I can see for not sharing that.

Maybe if you stop having unrealistic expectations of what you want to see in PVP these things you write about won't be so weird to you. If you think they can balance ques based on skill.. you are terribly... naive...

Egosm and narcissm seems to be what drives people in PvP, especially in ranked.

Plus : Are the same people applying this mindset to RL as well ?

Egosm and narcissm seems to be what drives people in PvP, especially in ranked.

Plus : Are the same people applying this mindset to RL as well ?

The people you talk about hide behind the anonymity of the internet... They most certainly don't apply it in real life. It's called pixel macho syndrome.

[P]ixel [M]acho yndrome.

I see what you did there.

What do you guys think?

What do I think? I think this match making idea is absolute disaster from my vantage point and personally I've lost a lot of my desire to continue to PvP.

I am fine with BW artificially limiting the number of tanks and healers in match (even though I play a combat medic), but what I do have a problem with is how the game is determining the rest of team make ups. My guild and I have a very high win/loss ratio over the last 2 years or so because:

a) we're decent PvPers for the most part; and

b) we play to objectives versus just farming numbers (say what you will about premades in regs, but I enjoy objective based PvP and I like playing with friends).

As a result of the matchmaking changes and our assumed above average regs ratings, when we queue up now we get put with the absolute worst boulders our server can muster to try and average out the mystical "ELO" between the groups and try as I might, I can't carry 4 boulders across the hutball line.

What does this mean to me? Well first, it means I lose a lot more often than I am used to and while the Imps on SS may find that enjoyable I sure don't, but more importantly it's getting me more and more frustrated with a game I used to enjoy. I can no longer trust that the left side of my ops frame will be able to pull their weight, and that is frustrating. I can no longer play with my group of friends in any personal meaningful way in PvP, and that is frustrating. But overall I can no longer see myself playing this game long term, and that is truly frustrating.

So yeah, if the left side of my ops frame is an absolute dumpster fire I'll probably just leave at this point and let the other side have their ROFLstomp because I just don't need that negatively in my life.

^ this was the guy who thought we should all just "deal with it" that his premade was solid support stack.

I return your advice to you.

What do I think? I think this match making idea is absolute disaster from my vantage point and personally I've lost a lot of my desire to continue to PvP.

 

I am fine with BW artificially limiting the number of tanks and healers in match (even though I play a combat medic), but what I do have a problem with is how the game is determining the rest of team make ups. My guild and I have a very high win/loss ratio over the last 2 years or so because:

 

a) we're decent PvPers for the most part; and

b) we play to objectives versus just farming numbers (say what you will about premades in regs, but I enjoy objective based PvP and I like playing with friends).

 

As a result of the matchmaking changes and our assumed above average regs ratings, when we queue up now we get put with the absolute worst boulders our server can muster to try and average out the mystical "ELO" between the groups and try as I might, I can't carry 4 boulders across the hutball line.

 

What does this mean to me? Well first, it means I lose a lot more often than I am used to and while the Imps on SS may find that enjoyable I sure don't, but more importantly it's getting me more and more frustrated with a game I used to enjoy. I can no longer trust that the left side of my ops frame will be able to pull their weight, and that is frustrating. I can no longer play with my group of friends in any personal meaningful way in PvP, and that is frustrating. But overall I can no longer see myself playing this game long term, and that is truly frustrating.

 

So yeah, if the left side of my ops frame is an absolute dumpster fire I'll probably just leave at this point and let the other side have their ROFLstomp because I just don't need that negatively in my life.

If you truly lose so much it means your initial ELO was overrated. The losses will "fix" it by lowering it and eventually you will get groups which are no so much more terrible than your opposition (not in a level you can't handle it), and then you will start getting a normal win ratio and your ELO will balance there. You just need to bare with some more terrible games first (which sucks, I know).

But I am afraid that if you used to win 95% of your matches because your team was usually composed of players that each and every one of them is better than each and every enemy (due, maybe, to faction imbalance or IDK what), you will be disappointed. You will not get that kind of easy games again.

P.S: In the very probable case that the ELO isn't counted if you quit your game, rage quitting on bad groups actually only halts the progress toward having better groups later...

@Viss the funny thing is, this change is actually affecting us by making me encourage running a second tank, so as not to hose our 2nd group. Other than that, the class/role based matchmaking has zero impact on us.

Now the skill based matchmaking is atrocious. I guess that it is trying to match teams with the same average "regs rating" and thus our 4 always end up with dumpster fires against the 8 next best players.

Combine that with the fact that every third match is now huttball and there is a limit to what we can carry.

Combine that with the fact that you can no longer queue sides of an ops frame, and that means I cannot micromanage 2 teams, but rely on someone to stand up and organize the second, and this is.... deeply troubling for the guild. We have many unhappy subscribing (for now...) players that seemingly used to enjoy swtor.

All this change has done for me is make pvp a glitchy, desyncing exercise in being a slow and stun prone class trying to figure out where to pass the huttball to my teammate while the idiots that cannot break 1 mill dps are attempting to number farm the ball stand, resulting in many understandably irritated guildies and inceeasing guild drama as I attempt to create similarly skilled 4 man teams so that everyine can play without getting screwed.

eventually you will get groups which are no so much more terrible than your opposition (not in a level you can't handle it), and then you will start getting a normal win ratio and your ELO will balance there. You just need to bare with some more terrible games first (which sucks, I know).

Just an example of the boulders we've had to carry this first week:

1. Sage with absorb mods

2. Sentinel with only 1 saber

3. Guardian missing 1/2 his gear

It don't matter how high my personal ELO rating is, the best PvPers in this game couldn't carry those folks to a civil war win.

I hope you're right, and that the teams will eventually even out for me personally but that doesn't fix the problem that the highest end players will always be saddled with the absolute worst of the absolute worst ... and when you've worked to get that good at what you do, playing with bads is just frustrating.

Remember when I said that bads would be crying after matchmaking went live because even though they thought matchmaking was their cause for losing, they’d be wrong?

Yeah, this thread.

It don't matter how high my personal ELO rating is, the best PvPers in this game couldn't carry those folks to a civil war win.

Start counting whether they are pubs or imps. I'm betting they're pubs. I've been suffering with these types of troglodytes for years. My pub side wins are off the charts now

I think a lot of people running imp premades -- and losing now -- are realizing that they had an over-inflated "hidden ELO" because of lopsided factions. Maybe not in your case, but for a lot of folks.

Start counting whether they are pubs or imps. I'm betting they're pubs. I've been suffering with these types of troglodytes for years. My pub side wins are off the charts now

 

The people running imp premades -- and losing now -- are realizing that they had an over-inflated "hidden ELO" because of lopsided factions.

For whatever record, if you haven't figured out who we are, we're pubs. I'd say the people with us are about half and half imps and pubs. Its making me wonder if faction imbalance was really a thing, or if it was merely population imbalance.

Whatever it is, the situation is slowly ripping my guild apart, and there is very little i can do to relive the tension. I just request that, if you insist on putting sorcs with tank stims and warding mods on a team, the other side gets saddled with them as much as i do.

^ this was the guy who thought we should all just "deal with it" that his premade was solid support stack.

 

I return your advice to you.

Y'all will still have to deal with my premade of solid support (i.e. me, my tank and 2 DPS) ... it just got easier to completely avoid us and roll the defense modded sage we got grouped with.

I've said before I don't like the changes that limits to roles people enjoy playing, but I can move on that point if it means people think games will become fairer (you'll still have a hard time killing a tank/heal combo without some coordination but I digress). The problem this change brought was not the limiting of roles but rather it was the attempt to include some sort of skill factor into an equation that couldn't handle it. If I lose enough rounds my experience may change, but that still means the high ranked guy that took my spot will encounter the same issues that I have been encountering so far this week and that is the problem, not my reluctance to be able roll 2 healers and 2 DPS in a group queue.

/IFedTheTrolls