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why is the deserter lockout still present in regs?


abhaxus

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I played most of yesterday solo an didn't come across any noticeable premades. The minute I formed a group I ran into a premade every match and we were only a group of 3 people. This has been my experience every time I run a group. See for yourself sometime if you don't believe me.

 

Despite what you want to believe, the system does prioritize group vs group before putting group vs soio.

 

The "system" as you call it does not do this. swtors queue system is very basic it matches up the first 8/16 folks and then dumps them into random wz's. The system doesn't have that much logic to it.

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They don't have the right to premade, though. This may in fact break ToS:

 

 

 

If they can't run groups in lowbies without thoroughly ruining the experience for everyone else, they need to not run groups in lowbies at all. If they continue to make the game a worse place just for the sake of knowing they ruined someone's day, well... that's why there's the banhammer.

 

I personally think it's good that they're teaching the lowbies what PvP is all about and where it always goes, but I guess I'm just jaded and cynical.

 

Being in a premade for pvp is not a breach of TOS for swtor.

 

"Interfere with or disrupt another player's use of an EA Service. This includes disrupting the normal flow of game play, chat or dialogue within an EA Service by, for example, using vulgar or harassing language, being abusive, excessive shouting (all caps), spamming, flooding or hitting the return key repeatedly."

 

From what was quoted above - unless they are using vulgar, harassing language, being abusive (in chat), shouting (all caps), spamming, flooding or hitting the return key repeatedly in chat.

 

These comments made my day against TOS lol

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I am pretty much at the point with bioware as I am with politicians. How do you know a politician is lying? The politician is speaking.

 

Sometimes what you believe bears out. Sometimes not. It feels like all too often it does not. Whatever system is in place is not good enough. As we have commented earlier, fewer, higher quality games are preferable to most than faster, lower quality beat-downs. I don't mind losing too much. I DO mind premades that spawn camp and number farm. It is obnoxious.

 

You are def correct in the fact that swtors pvp queue system is a joke. It doesn't account for premades, non premades, tanks, healers on one team and not the other. There is no logical match making whatsoever.

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Despite what you want to believe, the system does prioritize group vs group before putting group vs soio.

 

Do you start with a conclusion and then gather evidence to support it? I don't. It is good policy to gather evidence first and then draw a conclusion based upon the facts. I don't have evidence enough to tell determine what is going on, and it would be myopic to suggest otherwise. I am also not going to accept at face value what the developers claim when my experience is often very different. If you can find an instance where I have stated, unequivocally, that the system does or does not do [X], please find it. It would surprise me if you could find something as I seldom converse or write in absolutes.

 

A few nights ago I ran into the same premade for 4 games, then I changed characters and did not run into them. I was solo queuing the whole time. Since January I have not grouped with anyone for PvP. When I do, it is usually just one other person, and only for a game or two. Perhaps it does prioritize as you suggest, but it does a piss poor job of it.

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Do you start with a conclusion and then gather evidence to support it? I don't. It is good policy to gather evidence first and then draw a conclusion based upon the facts. I don't have evidence enough to tell determine what is going on, and it would be myopic to suggest otherwise. I am also not going to accept at face value what the developers claim when my experience is often very different. If you can find an instance where I have stated, unequivocally, that the system does or does not do [X], please find it. It would surprise me if you could find something as I seldom converse or write in absolutes.

 

A few nights ago I ran into the same premade for 4 games, then I changed characters and did not run into them. I was solo queuing the whole time. Since January I have not grouped with anyone for PvP. When I do, it is usually just one other person, and only for a game or two. Perhaps it does prioritize as you suggest, but it does a piss poor job of it.

 

that person is a troll, I actually know folks that work, and have worked with Bioware on swtor and the queue system that is in place isn't complex and logical like know it all thinks.

 

And yes the current queue system is bad, it can def use a logical update.

Edited by Ibokagain
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that person is a troll, I actually know folks that work, and have worked with Bioware on swtor and the queue system that is in place isn't complex and logical like know it all thinks.

 

And yes the current queue system is bad, it can def use a logical update.

 

Respectfully, I disagree. He fundamentally believes that regs are better off as they are and does not care for, or consider, opposing points of view. Some probably fear our complaints will have an impact and are therefore arguing strenuously against reverting to the old system. I can understand their fears, but imo regs are demonstrably worse than they were before.

 

What irks me is when it is claimed that someone who dislikes the deserter debuff is automatically the person who abandons games as soon as they do not go favorably. That is absurd. I categorically refute that assertion. If that were the case my valor across all characters would be a LOT lower. I have a character with over 43k kills and only 200 or so wins. That is because she is republic, the overwhelming majority of her kills and warzones were at a time when republic and imperial queues were separated and, if anyone recalls, the republic had a very tough time obtaining wins. It is not just toward me that this accusation has been leveled.

 

I see just as many deserters now as ever before. What is more, I am getting even more backfills than ever before. I had three in a row the other night. Ludicrous.

 

My experience is that the queue system favors fast games over quality games. He may be right that the system is supposed to do as he claims, but it seems to be skewed heavily toward rapid queues, i.e. quantity over quality. It should be quality over quantity. When I played wow 14 years ago and BC was the first expansion, you could wait 10 or more minutes for a battleground. That did not bother me too much. I would be willing to wait that long for balanced, quality matches, honestly.

 

I almost don't have a stake in this fight because I seldom do regs anymore. I am trying (and failing) to learn the ranked craft. The games are more enjoyable (though a lot more toxic), and the queues happen frequently.

Edited by Sappharan
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What irks me is when it is claimed that someone who dislikes the deserter debuff is automatically the person who abandons games as soon as they do not go favorably.

 

honestly, in VS, when I jump down east and less than 30 seconds has passed when the alert sounds that the west door has been planted, I'm gone. that level of incompetence is not worth my time or effort.

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honestly, in VS, when I jump down east and less than 30 seconds has passed when the alert sounds that the west door has been planted, I'm gone. that level of incompetence is not worth my time or effort.

 

Plenty of times I've won games like that.

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didn't ask. don't care.

 

I care. Maybe stick around and try to win instead of ruining the match by quitting and creating a cycle of leavers. Thankfully now people like you can enjoy the lockout.

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What irks me is when it is claimed that someone who dislikes the deserter debuff is automatically the person who abandons games as soon as they do not go favorably.

 

by far the most common reason for players disliking the deserter lockout is that they are unhappy with being unable to requeue immediately after ragequitting a warzone they consider to be "lost", there has yet to be one good argument for removing the deserter punishment from regs

 

the system is working well, sure it could be tuned slightly to be more forgiving to people that continue to queue despite having questionable internet connection (and thus DC:ing regularly) but in the grand scheme of things that's a very very small pool of players

Edited by RikuvonDrake
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I care. Maybe stick around and try to win instead of ruining the match by quitting and creating a cycle of leavers. Thankfully now people like you can enjoy the lockout.

 

Sadly, that’s why the lock out was added and why may people asked for it. And honestly, I wouldn’t mind it as much if they hadn’t added it with a win requirement and had added some sort of map choice and a mechanism for back fillers to be able to decline and DC’s weren’t counted as lockouts.

If all of those had been implemented (and losses still counted), the system would be 100x better and more fair. I would even champion it. But as it is at the moment, it should go until they can implement everything else to go along with it.

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by far the most common reason for players disliking the deserter lockout is that they are unhappy with being unable to requeue immediately after ragequitting a warzone they consider to be "lost", there has yet to be one good argument for removing the deserter punishment from regs

 

the system is working well, sure it could be tuned slightly to be more forgiving to people that continue to queue despite having questionable internet connection (and thus DC:ing regularly) but in the grand scheme of things that's a very very small pool of players

 

Good reasons have been given, but you do not acknowledge them as "good reasons". Again, I find myself in Trixxie's camp. Above she gave her reasons for disliking it, and I find myself in near total agreement. I doubt I would champion it, though, but I would not be vehemently opposed to it either.

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Good reasons have been given, but you do not acknowledge them as "good reasons". Again, I find myself in Trixxie's camp. Above she gave her reasons for disliking it, and I find myself in near total agreement. I doubt I would champion it, though, but I would not be vehemently opposed to it either.

 

those aren't good reasons for its removal, its incentives and features that Bioware should (and have said) that they will add (map opt-out, fix to bug that causes you to be unable to equip gear/change utilities in certain warzones), the core reason the deserter lockout is there is to disincentives people like you and the poster above from just ragequitting cause they think the game is lost which reduces the experience for the other 15 ppl in the game, and there is no good argument in this thread of why it should be removed and what should be put in its place.

 

there are some suggestions of adjusting it which I acknowledged, the shorter initial timer on the first ragequit (in case of DC) and then have a scaling one that is 20m or something on your second abandon within 24h or something, but the deserter lockout is a good thing for the game and there has yet to be presented a viable alternative that is equally good or better

 

that said, you promote people to go afk during warzones so I doubt the experience of the other 15 players in the warzone is irrelevant to you

Edited by RikuvonDrake
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Sadly, that’s why the lock out was added and why may people asked for it. And honestly, I wouldn’t mind it as much if they hadn’t added it with a win requirement and had added some sort of map choice and a mechanism for back fillers to be able to decline and DC’s weren’t counted as lockouts.

If all of those had been implemented (and losses still counted), the system would be 100x better and more fair. I would even champion it. But as it is at the moment, it should go until they can implement everything else to go along with it.

 

The win requirement is a good thing. Makes people try and win instead of afking in a corner somewhere.

 

I'm heavily against map choice. That would just lead to certain maps never being played. A map voting prompted during the queue pop similar to something like CoD? Sure that could work. A straight up map selection though? No definitely not unless it comes with a stipulation that removing maps from the queue will remove your eligibility to complete the daily/weekly.

 

It is impossible tell if someone DC's intentionally or not, and as I've said countless times before, if you have DC problems then fix your internet first before queuing.

 

nah. now I stay and afk. maybe load the laundry or watch a youtube video.

 

Which is great news for all the other players. Enjoy your afk, its at least 1 to 2 matches where 1 less ragequitter is in the pool of players until you inevitably rage quit again because your next match is also not a carry. Eventually you'll get the idea and either learn to contribute to the match or just stop queueing. Its a win/win for everyone else.

 

Until they implement class balancing, losses count, map selection, matchmaking improvements, address the number farmer crap, detection for connection losses rather than one-size-fits-all answer to leaving warzones, and other issues, I don't blame you one iota. That is PRECISELY what you should do. No sarcasm.

 

Class balancing will be a forever issue. The closest we got to perfect balance was 2.x-3.x and it still had problems.

 

Losses should not count. The original daily/weekly required wins and the worst thing they did was change it to losses counting. It lead to people just afking and not trying. If you want your daily you should have to earn it.

 

As I said earlier, its IMPOSSIBLE to detect if a DC is intentional or not. A one size fits all penalty is the best solution. If you get a random DC then well that sucks, it happens. Take a break and requeue later. If you continuously DC? Stop queuing and fix your internet because you're becoming a detriment to other players experiences.

 

Do pray tell how you would deal with the number farmers? I'm quite curious what your answer is considering the two things that exist currently to dissuade number farming you want changed back to encourage it. As toxic as those players are, there's little you can do to change it, unless you advocate removing the scoreboard which is a HORRIBLE idea.

Edited by Raansu
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It's funny how people keep saying that the deserter lockout dissuades rage quitting. It doesn't, not in any significant manner. I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen someone actually say that the deserter lockout kept them from quitting. I still see people leave wzs on an extremely regular basis, which means the system simply isn't working.
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Which is great news for all the other players. Enjoy your afk, its at least 1 to 2 matches where 1 less ragequitter is in the pool of players until you inevitably rage quit again because your next match is also not a carry. Eventually you'll get the idea and either learn to contribute to the match or just stop queueing. Its a win/win for everyone else.

 

dunno what you're on about. I have no problem completing my dailies or weeklies in one night. instead of leaving matches I'd normally leave, I afk them. it's no skin off my back. there's plenty to occupy my time for the 2-6 minutes the rest of my team plays a man down. gl hf. :p

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those aren't good reasons for its removal, its incentives and features that Bioware should (and have said) that they will add (map opt-out, fix to bug that causes you to be unable to equip gear/change utilities in certain warzones),

 

Bioware "says" a lot of things. Fewer than half come true, and only for those that massage their egos. You know who I mean.

 

the core reason the deserter lockout is there is to disincentives people like you

 

You think you know me, but you don't...and you never will. You're making assumptions, and they're wildly inaccurate.

I only ever leave quesh, because I loathe quesh and suckball in general. But I only leave quesh, and I am not going to apologize for so doing.

 

and there is no good argument in this thread of why it should be removed and what should be put in its place.

 

your opinion, nothing more.

 

tthere are some suggestions of adjusting it which I acknowledged, the shorter initial timer on the first ragequit (in case of DC) and then have a scaling one that is 20m or something on your second abandon within 24h or something, but the deserter lockout is a good thing for the game and there has yet to be presented a viable alternative that is equally good or better

 

The principal reason I oppose it is because of disconnect...but please continue with your assumptions.

 

that said, you promote people to go afk during warzones so I doubt the experience of the other 15 players in the warzone is irrelevant to you[sic]

 

That was a rage post. You ever spout crap you don't truly mean? Half of me agrees that he should do that. Half of me doesn't. But I am so disgusted with the current state of PvP that those last words felt cathartic. I have seen instances of people quitting in the warzone when I have been on the team DOING the brutalizing. I get it. It sucks for them, and I actually feel badly for opposing teams when I am on the butt-whooping team. I stop myself when I find that I am beating on the same player too much. They should funnel themselves to my side so we can continue to slaughter them? Naw. And I have been on that side often enough to understand both sides. Perhaps you like to crush others' spirits. Not me.

 

Oh, and I don't ragequit, which is why these other aspects are so important to me (class balance, eliminating number farmers, etcetera). Don't believe me? Don't care.

Edited by Sappharan
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Respectfully, I disagree. He fundamentally believes that regs are better off as they are and does not care for, or consider, opposing points of view. Some probably fear our complaints will have an impact and are therefore arguing strenuously against reverting to the old system. I can understand their fears, but imo regs are demonstrably worse than they were before.

 

What irks me is when it is claimed that someone who dislikes the deserter debuff is automatically the person who abandons games as soon as they do not go favorably. That is absurd. I categorically refute that assertion. If that were the case my valor across all characters would be a LOT lower. I have a character with over 43k kills and only 200 or so wins. That is because she is republic, the overwhelming majority of her kills and warzones were at a time when republic and imperial queues were separated and, if anyone recalls, the republic had a very tough time obtaining wins. It is not just toward me that this accusation has been leveled.

 

I see just as many deserters now as ever before. What is more, I am getting even more backfills than ever before. I had three in a row the other night. Ludicrous.

 

My experience is that the queue system favors fast games over quality games. He may be right that the system is supposed to do as he claims, but it seems to be skewed heavily toward rapid queues, i.e. quantity over quality. It should be quality over quantity. When I played wow 14 years ago and BC was the first expansion, you could wait 10 or more minutes for a battleground. That did not bother me too much. I would be willing to wait that long for balanced, quality matches, honestly.

 

I almost don't have a stake in this fight because I seldom do regs anymore. I am trying (and failing) to learn the ranked craft. The games are more enjoyable (though a lot more toxic), and the queues happen frequently.

 

All you have to do is read any of its reply's, they are all troll-like answers. I guarantee that this person does not like the game the way it is, and I for one highly doubt that it is even active in the game. It just trolls around the forums all day trying to cause angst with other players.

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It's funny how people keep saying that the deserter lockout dissuades rage quitting. It doesn't, not in any significant manner. I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen someone actually say that the deserter lockout kept them from quitting. I still see people leave wzs on an extremely regular basis, which means the system simply isn't working.

 

100% correct,if their overall goal was to have folks stop leaving warzones this isn't working.

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The win requirement is a good thing. Makes people try and win instead of afking in a corner somewhere.

 

Your opinion. Mine is that it is terrible.

 

I'm heavily against map choice. That would just lead to certain maps never being played. A map voting prompted during the queue pop similar to something like CoD? Sure that could work. A straight up map selection though? No definitely not unless it comes with a stipulation that removing maps from the queue will remove your eligibility to complete the daily/weekly.

 

Which is why we verbally spar all the time because we're diametrically opposed. No, map selection may not be great, but map avoidance...one or two, that would be helpful. I loathe quesh. It is the only map I REFUSE to do.

 

It is impossible tell if someone DC's intentionally or not, and as I've said countless times before, if you have DC problems then fix your internet first before queuing.

 

Forgive me if I take Trixxie's word on this over yours.

 

Class balancing will be a forever issue. The closest we got to perfect balance was 2.x-3.x and it still had problems.

 

That is a POOR excuse to avoid addressing the problem.

 

Losses should not count. The original daily/weekly required wins and the worst thing they did was change it to losses counting. It lead to people just afking and not trying. If you want your daily you should have to earn it.

 

Just as the deserter debuff has done.

 

As I said earlier, its IMPOSSIBLE to detect if a DC is intentional or not. A one size fits all penalty is the best solution. If you get a random DC then well that sucks, it happens. Take a break and requeue later. If you continuously DC? Stop queuing and fix your internet because you're becoming a detriment to other players experiences.

 

Friend of mine suggested an alternative

 

Do pray tell how you would deal with the number farmers? I'm quite curious what your answer is considering the two things that exist currently to dissuade number farming you want changed back to encourage it. As toxic as those players are, there's little you can do to change it, unless you advocate removing the scoreboard which is a HORRIBLE idea.

 

It is not my job to generate solutions that will only be ignored. WoW had a system of ranks in PvP which was missed when it was removed. Perhaps introducing that here (along with titles) would be a nice start. But, these ranks only count for won warzones. You can still farm, but now it requires winning too. That is one thought.

 

Why is removing the scoreboard a horrible idea? I am genuinely intrigued by your opposition to this. An explanation could be enlightening. This ego massaging and validation some seek in warzones is obnoxious. Bitter rivalry and intense competition need not be one and the same.

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All you have to do is read any of its reply's, they are all troll-like answers. I guarantee that this person does not like the game the way it is, and I for one highly doubt that it is even active in the game. It just trolls around the forums all day trying to cause angst with other players.

 

Mmmm, not all answers. Dehumanizing him is not going to help. I don't like most of his answers, though.

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What good does afking do when you need a win to complete the daily and weekly? The lockout and the daily changes is one of the better things they have done for pvp.

 

Sadly, with Galactic Conquest, there are daily and weekly missions of just completing a Warzone (win or lose).

 

Besides that problem, some players who are QQers and would leave at first sign of having to work for it, prefer to stay AFK for the lose , rather than wait 15 minutes for lockout. Is faster.

I don't know those are my guesses. I dislike quiters and AFKers the same, but quitters is the lesser evil in these scenarios if you want to win a match. At least you have the chance of a refill, while the AFKers is filling the spot.

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