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The mood about this xpac should be causing you (BW) to reevaluate the whole thing


Rolodome

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That other poster thinks we enjoy posting about doom and gloom. But I know I don’t and Im sure others don’t either. I love this game and I hate what I’ve seen BioWare do to it over the years. Im passionate about the game and want what’s best for it. That’s why I bother testing and providing feedback (unlike some others). I can say 100% from experience, that the changes BioWare have made for 7.0 WILL make some players leave, which the game cannot afford.

Yep. I can't speak for anyone else, but I would much rather be happy posting about a wonderful game, or just enjoying it and not posting at all. I would much rather be excited for the expansion. I hate that I came back only to get swept up in another round of impending doom, I should have seen it coming.

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Yep. Incompetence is often mistaken for Malice. This is what 7.0 is - complete and utter incompetence. It continues the trend which ME:Andromeda and Anthem have shown - this is the sorry state of BW. Edited by ExarSun
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...

That other poster thinks we enjoy posting about doom and gloom. But I know I don’t and Im sure others don’t either. I love this game and I hate what I’ve seen BioWare do to it over the years. Im passionate about the game and want what’s best for it. That’s why I bother testing and providing feedback (unlike some others). I can say 100% from experience, that the changes BioWare have made for 7.0 WILL make some players leave, which the game cannot afford.

 

For the record I hope I've been 100% wrong about 7.0. I've been wrong occasionally in the past, it happens. Having played this game for 10 years and invested a lot of time, energy and $ into it, I'd love it if this game started to become really successful and got handed more dev resources for content and non-hokey gameplay fixes/upgrades. I just don't see how the 7.0 we've been told about and played on the PTS could theoretically get us there. Maybe Sony has to buy EA first...

Edited by Savej
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For the record I hope I've been 100% wrong about 7.0. I've been wrong occasionally in the past, it happens. Having played this game for 10 years and invested a lot of time, energy and $ into it, I'd love it if this game started to become really successful and got handed more dev resources for content and non-hokey gameplay fixes/upgrades.

 

Like you, I would love to be 100% wrong about 7.0, I really would. Sadly I don’t think that’s going to happen, but I’d be ecstatic if it did. Even if I’m only 50% wrong, that means 50% of what I’ve predicted will actually happen. Which means the game will still be in trouble after 7.0 launches.

Edited by TrixxieTriss
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Edit: And the last post got pulled so somebody's been talking to the mods.

 

I swere it wasn't me! but for the recorde I didnt have a issue with it, it was a bit of fun...

 

On topic.

 

I understand peoples anxiety, I just don't share it (yet) if it turns out to be as bad as people say then am happy to post asking for change, but I really do think after people have got used to the changes it will be ok.

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I understand peoples anxiety, I just don't share it (yet) if it turns out to be as bad as people say then am happy to post asking for change, but I really do think after people have got used to the changes it will be ok.

 

It is as bad as people claim, at least in parts. And I don't expect to see any real changes to what we saw on PTS, aside from fixing bugs and probably some minor balance tweaks.

But the majority of "features" we got to see on PTS will remain unchanged, they have far too many bugs to squash to even consider changing the widely disliked changes they made to working systems.

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I swere it wasn't me! but for the recorde I didnt have a issue with it, it was a bit of fun...

 

On topic.

 

I understand peoples anxiety, I just don't share it (yet) if it turns out to be as bad as people say then am happy to post asking for change, but I really do think after people have got used to the changes it will be ok.

 

I believe it wasn't you because you had a good sense of humor about it.

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It is as bad as people claim, at least in parts. And I don't expect to see any real changes to what we saw on PTS, aside from fixing bugs and probably some minor balance tweaks.

But the majority of "features" we got to see on PTS will remain unchanged, they have far too many bugs to squash to even consider changing the widely disliked changes they made to working systems.

 

This is my assessment too. There was still way too much for them to fix for them to make any mayor changes to what’s already on the PTS.

 

The things I think they might possibly tweak from the PTS is adding a modded vendor for each gear type at the current max lvl of 7.0 release. And reverse their decision to increase personal conquest goals to 100.000.

 

While they are not big tweaks, that would alleviate some of the stress and tension the majority of players have and less people are likely to quit and give the expansion a chance.

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Truth is WoW is dead, FFXIV is crushing it right now, BW want a slice of the pie, so they will see what works on FFXIV and try and make it work here. So is it any shock there building a platform to work from, remove skill bloat give players more choice on building there toons, if you look at what there doing its not hard to understand why.

 

Um...there's no skills removed from FFXIV Endwalker. Changes to classes such as the Asterlogian and Scholar for including the new Sage class the former is pure healing with no shielding, while the latter remained the same (shielding & healing) Sage took the place of the Asterlogian for shielding. Changed how Summoner summoned their Primals. My main, a Paladin, gained a new skill and had others with new infinity powers added that improved the play. Skill loss? Not at all. Square Enix knows it's player base, had they done what BW is doing, the uproar would be deafening.

 

BW isn't following FFXIV in any way, shape, or form. They are sticking to the outdated WoW design and expanding on it. They still believe this is a method that players love. However, their hallmark and track record makes a mockery of that latter statement. They do not, never have, nor would they unless it cost them a major hit to their net income as it did with the great companion 75% nerf back in 5.0. Let us not forget what brought us to this point in time. Update 1.2 disaster that nerfed both the Sage and Sorcerers into utter uselessness for nearly 4 years after that. 1.5 million players unsubbed which ushered in their crappy F2P and the firing of most of the original development staff.

 

BW is following it's on path, same as they did when the took up the methodology that WoW uses. As we know now...FFXIV offers a true RPG MMO universe where the story drives the game, where gear is not gated behind any dungeon type and you can play in a nearly drama-less environment. Should BW truly follow exactly how FFXIV is doing, you'd not see 7.0 in its current form. The proof of that is clear too see. FFXIV has nearly 25 million active subscribers (note: this does not include F2P to Heavensward players) and had to stop sales for new subs because of their back order server issue. SWTOR has what? 500k active subs? Someone is doing it right while the other has failed to remotely try or do what is necessary to improve the game for the fans. That is a sad testament to BioWare's entire legacy.

Edited by Ghost_Spectre
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Um...there's no skills removed from FFXIV Endwalker. Changes to classes such as the Asterlogian and Scholar for including the new Sage class the former is pure healing with no shielding, while the latter remained the same (shielding & healing) Sage took the place of the Asterlogian for shielding. Changed how Summoner summoned their Primals. My main, a Paladin, gained a new skill and had others with new infinity powers added that improved the play. Skill loss? Not at all. Square Enix knows it's player base, had they done what BW is doing, the uproar would be deafening.

 

BW isn't following FFXIV in any way, shape, or form. They are sticking to the outdated WoW design and expanding on it. They still believe this is a method that players love. However, their hallmark and track record makes a mockery of that latter statement. They do not, never have, nor would they unless it cost them a major hit to their net income as it did with the great companion 75% nerf back in 5.0. Let us not forget what brought us to this point in time. Update 1.2 disaster that nerfed both the Sage and Sorcerers into utter uselessness for nearly 4 years after that. 1.5 million players unsubbed which ushered in their crappy F2P and the firing of most of the original development staff.

 

BW is following it's on path, same as they did when the took up the methodology that WoW uses. As we know now...FFXIV offers a true RPG MMO universe where the story drives the game, where gear is not gated behind any dungeon type and you can play in a nearly drama-less environment. Should BW truly follow exactly how FFXIV is doing, you'd not see 7.0 in its current form. The proof of that is clear too see. FFXIV has nearly 25 million active subscribers (note: this does not include F2P to Heavensward players) and had to stop sales for new subs because of their back order server issue. SWTOR has what? 500k active subs? Someone is doing it right while the other has failed to remotely try or do what is necessary to improve the game for the fans. That is a sad testament to BioWare's entire legacy.

 

Yeah it kind of sucks BW is going for Wow's direction. Nobody cares anymore about wow's model. Just look at the absolutely 0 hype about 9.2.

 

BW removing mods and timegatting gearing to only Operations is just plain garbage. I've never liked Operations/raids. I like Manageable flashpoints, working towards a goal, and combining pvp/flashloints between runs.

 

I am even on a good guild. But I just don't like to play on Operations, period.

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The modable gear will be available once they release the operation. Which should not be far more than 1 months after release. So that is not that huge of a deal. The problem comes when they will postpone the release of the operation, for some reason. Whether it's going to be lots of bugs on the 15th of Feb or something else. We will be stuck with it for longer which will suck big time.

 

But we will have to wait and see. So far they are staying silent as per usual. Nothing is being said about keeping the release date, no new teases, absolute garbage. They have achieved the complete opposite and the trend is just getting deeper. So many people hating on 7.0 and there is no damage control, no communications except the ones that they will fix bugs like Kai zyken and guild perks. Give us a full blown post saying that you listened, this and that will be done, you can expect the following and we will put out some more of that.

 

Currently the hype has gone down to a minimum and I believe there are only 30 percent of players actually looking forward to 15th of Feb.

 

While this game is amazing and big part of my star wars identity, it just hits all the wrong boxes sometimes and makes me want to unsubscribe. I want to get some more, concrete info about what is going to happen. Give us at least that.

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The modable gear will be available once they release the operation. Which should not be far more than 1 months after release. So that is not that huge of a deal.

 

But that moddable gear will still only be available to operations players. THAT IS THE PROBLEM!

 

PvPers, Flash point, and Mastermode Pvers like to customise their stats too. But we won’t be able to even in 7.1 and probably not in 7.2. It will be 6+ months before we get access to that vendor.

 

Anyone who can’t see that being a problem, really doesn’t understand this player base.

Edited by TrixxieTriss
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The modable gear will be available once they release the operation. Which should not be far more than 1 months after release. So that is not that huge of a deal. The problem comes when they will postpone the release of the operation, for some reason. Whether it's going to be lots of bugs on the 15th of Feb or something else. We will be stuck with it for longer which will suck big time.

 

But we will have to wait and see. So far they are staying silent as per usual. Nothing is being said about keeping the release date, no new teases, absolute garbage. They have achieved the complete opposite and the trend is just getting deeper. So many people hating on 7.0 and there is no damage control, no communications except the ones that they will fix bugs like Kai zyken and guild perks. Give us a full blown post saying that you listened, this and that will be done, you can expect the following and we will put out some more of that.

 

Currently the hype has gone down to a minimum and I believe there are only 30 percent of players actually looking forward to 15th of Feb.

 

While this game is amazing and big part of my star wars identity, it just hits all the wrong boxes sometimes and makes me want to unsubscribe. I want to get some more, concrete info about what is going to happen. Give us at least that.

 

Sorry, the only moddable gear being 334 and available from the operation vendor -is- a huge deal. The only ones that will be able to use it or buy it will be raiders. Maybe when another raid gets released and the max gear level gets raised to 342 (or whatever) those of us that are willing to not use the best gear level available to non-raiders will be able to buy the old mods? That's assuming we get another raid. 5.0 and 6.0 had imminent plans to upgrade max gear levels too that never happened. And promises about "more content coming soon" and "this will be a great year for swtor" can usually be taken with a grain of salt.

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The modable gear will be available once they release the operation. Which should not be far more than 1 months after release. So that is not that huge of a deal. The problem comes when they will postpone the release of the operation, for some reason. Whether it's going to be lots of bugs on the 15th of Feb or something else. We will be stuck with it for longer which will suck big time.

 

But we will have to wait and see. So far they are staying silent as per usual. Nothing is being said about keeping the release date, no new teases, absolute garbage. They have achieved the complete opposite and the trend is just getting deeper. So many people hating on 7.0 and there is no damage control, no communications except the ones that they will fix bugs like Kai zyken and guild perks. Give us a full blown post saying that you listened, this and that will be done, you can expect the following and we will put out some more of that.

 

Currently the hype has gone down to a minimum and I believe there are only 30 percent of players actually looking forward to 15th of Feb.

 

While this game is amazing and big part of my star wars identity, it just hits all the wrong boxes sometimes and makes me want to unsubscribe. I want to get some more, concrete info about what is going to happen. Give us at least that.

 

what we have here is failure to communicate, Some player bases you just can't reach. (sorry I kinda had to)

 

Wile I don't agree with it, I understand why BW don't speak out, lets me honest what could they say at this point? Nothing other than we are cancelling 7.0 would appease the mob. Wiile I don't agree with the mass panic a lot of the vocal people on the forums have at the moment, You cant deny it isnt there. I do think 7.0 will be a big change and that can be upsetting and very strange for people (myself included) and I understand the anger people have.

 

I do think the only real course of action now is to "wait and see" we have a outdated version on the PTR, the infomation that is available is also out of date at this point, we could be arguing over things that have changed, we just don't know.

Edited by WNxAbaddon
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We should be used to being excited for only a little bit of an expansion. I think the last expansion I was truly excited about in total was Shadow of Revan. Every other expansion has given me some things to be excited for, and stuff I really hated. After losing class missions, losing pve space (yeah im like the one person who loved it), losing my companions (I will never forgive them for doing what they did to companions) to command crates and now this 6.0 gearing I learned that It's probably best to find one thing in an expansion to look forward to and laser focus on that. If you cant find one thing, it's time to explore the world both real and digital.

 

For me I can find a few things in this that I am excited about: 1 new flashpoint (I love flashpoints so adding a new one to collect achievements on will be good for me). 1 new operation (judging by my signature I do enjoy this aspect of the game). And I'll be happy with the double spec thing or whatever it's called (I'm excited to combine a few things into one character so I don't have to have so many toons for specific roles. I can consolidate which I am in favor of). Since I have things to look forward to, I'll stay and enjoy what I can. Everyone's decision is their own to make.

 

Gearing has never been fun for anyone, in any expansion, so for me I'll treat it as a necessary evil and slog through like I've done with 6.0 (seriously F trying to get bis mods and enhancements in this tier.), 5.0, 4.0, 3.0, 2.0 1.0.

Edited by Shwarzchild
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Wile I don't agree with it, I understand why BW don't speak out, lets me honest what could they say at this point? Nothing other than we are cancelling 7.0 would appease the mob.

 

There's quite a lot they could do and say...

 

> They could include a way for every playstyle to have access to modable gear, not just NiM raiders.

 

> They could delay 7.0 by a month or two again, to iron out the remaining issues.

 

> They could scrap the horrible gearing system of 7.0 and just go through with the rest.

 

Any of the things listed would go a long way in appeasing a lot of players. The total silence, however, does nothing to ease people's minds.

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I highly doubt that. Disney would be crazy to let BioWare make swtor2 because of how badly they’ve squandered the possibilities with swtor.

 

8.0's story could simply be that the Republic, and the military of the Sith Empire get so sick of all these force users that they trick them all into landing on a planet for the "Final Battle" which is just one big carbonite trap, after which it's activated gets pushed past the event horizon of an artificial black hole.

 

(Either/or works, either carbonization or time distortion due to gravity from black hole)

 

New company, could step in with SWTOR 2. Alternate timeline plot where Emperor Palpatine finds the planet of force users frozen in carbonite, and an overzealous Imperial accidently unfreezes it, and the black hole generator fails and it disipates, unleashing thousands of Jedi and Sith into the era somewhere between episode 4 and 6.

 

New company could actually give a s*!@, with a decent engine, eyes on class balance and pvp, and most importantly, an actual understanding of what makes MMOs fun and monitization methods that don't ruin it. Because it has Star Destroyers, Darth Vader, and all the things people recognize with the original films, game has more widespread appeal, but with an solid excuse as to why all these Jedi and Sith (player characters) are running around.

 

A million potential stories pop up, bunch of "what ifs" or wouldn't it be cool, blah blah blah.

 

But yeah, keep Bioware and EA away from SWTOR 2, if in the unlikely event it ever happens.

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There's quite a lot they could do and say...

 

> They could include a way for every playstyle to have access to modable gear, not just NiM raiders.

 

> They could delay 7.0 by a month or two again, to iron out the remaining issues.

 

> They could scrap the horrible gearing system of 7.0 and just go through with the rest.

 

Any of the things listed would go a long way in appeasing a lot of players. The total silence, however, does nothing to ease people's minds.

 

I agree BW sould comment, they won't however.

 

Thing is let's say, BW agree with your list and they comment saying as much, you will get someone else going "oh and you can fix pvp balance" on the face of it a good thing to ask for, then someone asks for better class balance, then someone asks for clipping on items to be fixed and on and on and on till at somone asks " wile your at it can we PLEASE at long last get wearable duck helmets" then we desend into madness.

 

My point being wile people can agree 7.0 is going to be different shades of bad, what they disagree on are the details. IF BW do comment, they open up a can of worms people asking for different things and rather than a delay 7.0 by a month or two, it's delayed till January 36 2193 at what point people STILL can't agree on what needs to fixed first. In truth wile I don't agree 7.0 is going to be as bad as people say ( it rarely is on game forums )

 

BW souldhave a idea on what there target placebase wants, I want more end game content. Stuff like, raids, better end game pvp (no more lag), flashpoints and gear to be rewards based on the content your doing, NM mode players sould get higher item lvl then story mode, Ranked area sould give better rewards then reg's, but if the game is made up of story mode players there going to hate that BW sould know this.

 

My argument is if the player base is split 50/50 or even 60/40 sometimes you have to give the minority player base something to enjoy, that way more people join the game that want that content, sure people are going to get upset sometimes, but if you bring say ranked area back in a big way and you give them nice shiny things to win who then get to show it off to there mates, more people that love pvp will join subs go up and the game is better for it.

 

I love story content, I enjoy playing seeing where we go next, who is the next big bad for both sides imp and repubs I wanna know what Malgus is upto next, what cool new outfits my Jedi can use, I may even pluck up the curage to try out a flashpoint when I feel brave, But I also love watching people with Ops mounts & titles, the guys and girls that do put the time and effort into getting that really cool effect on there lightsaber from pvp, I just think they need some love sometimes.

 

My long winded point is sometimes you CAN'T please everyone, 7.0 is going to make someone angry, sure they may leave and unsub. but if 7.0 brings back more ops players or pvpers or even story mode players then its worth it.

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Wile I don't agree with it, I understand why BW don't speak out, lets me honest what could they say at this point?

I mean, that's their job to figure out what to say so these situations don't happen, isn't it? They can't work magic if they have to be a bearer of bad news, some of it's on who's in charge, not the community team, but I've never not known this team to be uncommunicative when answers are needed more than most major games. There's always a risk that what they say will make things worse, or get dunked on, ala the classic "pride and accomplishment" EA moment, but that's part of the job and their main approach with this game seems to be avoiding doing that part of the job.

 

As it is, it's no wonder if they are afraid when they have basically no rapport with the community, being so chronically absent and so often delivering bad or middling news, as if from some castle tower on high speaking to the peasants, not as someone who is actually among the community and cares.

 

Is it really their fault or are their bosses tying their hands behind their back and then instructing them to do jumping jacks, I don't know. But there's little excuse for the state of things. Somebody is responsibility somewhere, it didn't all happen on accident.

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I mean, that's their job to figure out what to say so these situations don't happen, isn't it? They can't work magic if they have to be a bearer of bad news, some of it's on who's in charge, not the community team, but I've never not known this team to be uncommunicative when answers are needed more than most major games.

 

I've found Bioware to be fairly absent in terms of supporting their products post launch historically, and their communication is definitely an F grade...

 

However, what can they possibly say at this point that people would believe. The base was already lied to about the 10 year anniversary being this epic huge big thing they had planned. I mean they literally announced a minor patch worth of content for any other game like it was a big deal. UI changes and a single FP, oh and nerfs all around... Oh yay.

 

For me, they need to be held accountable, and anything sort of an apology for outright lying to the base and I could care less what they have to say. Wouldn't believe em at this point, they've cried wolf too many times.

 

But hey companies can come back from this, but first they have to be honest with us and themselves... And they haven't been yet.

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I've found Bioware to be fairly absent in terms of supporting their products post launch historically, and their communication is definitely an F grade...

 

However, what can they possibly say at this point that people would believe. The base was already lied to about the 10 year anniversary being this epic huge big thing they had planned. I mean they literally announced a minor patch worth of content for any other game like it was a big deal. UI changes and a single FP, oh and nerfs all around... Oh yay.

 

For me, they need to be held accountable, and anything sort of an apology for outright lying to the base and I could care less what they have to say. Wouldn't believe em at this point, they've cried wolf too many times.

 

But hey companies can come back from this, but first they have to be honest with us and themselves... And they haven't been yet.

 

These are the same people that told us they were going to have east and west coast servers, and then told us, with a straight face, that the west coast server was located on the east coast and it was our mistake for misunderstanding them.

 

No accountability, no apology. Huge ping increase for rural players on the west side of the country, and massive ping for anyone located west of the United States.

 

They know they're the worst. They simply don't care, and lying again and getting called out on it doesn't effect them at all.

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I've found Bioware to be fairly absent in terms of supporting their products post launch historically, and their communication is definitely an F grade...

 

However, what can they possibly say at this point that people would believe. The base was already lied to about the 10 year anniversary being this epic huge big thing they had planned. I mean they literally announced a minor patch worth of content for any other game like it was a big deal. UI changes and a single FP, oh and nerfs all around... Oh yay.

 

For me, they need to be held accountable, and anything sort of an apology for outright lying to the base and I could care less what they have to say. Wouldn't believe em at this point, they've cried wolf too many times.

 

But hey companies can come back from this, but first they have to be honest with us and themselves... And they haven't been yet.

Yeah, that's a fair point. I guess the way I imagine it, is the only thing that would be taken in good faith at this point is knuckling down in regular back and forth with the community until 7.0 is out, and doing responsive changes as part of the back and forth. And then actually keeping that going, not just doing it this once and then going back to radio silence. Pretty sure they've done something like that before, where communication has been decent for a little while and then fallen apart again, so it'd be hard to trust it if it isn't maintained past expansion time.

 

The thing is, other than us all leaving and waving at the game as it goes bye bye, idk how to hold them accountable. The little power we have is in leaving and EA is the type of company that would probably shut the game down before they ever swallow pride and listen to customers. As it is, this game is typically "too little too late" when it comes to finally listening to people after too many leave. It's like they repeat the same failure time after time, never quite taking the complaints seriously until people are already long gone.

 

As honesty goes, I think admitting why they are making these sweeping changes without coding it in some BS about an artistic vision that clearly isn't there would be a good start. So much of it seems senseless and disjointed, unless it's to make it ready for other platforms like others have conjectured. And if that's what it is, the least they can do is say that and save people the trouble of thinking that PC is still priority 1.

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These are the same people that told us they were going to have east and west coast servers, and then told us, with a straight face, that the west coast server was located on the east coast and it was our mistake for misunderstanding them.

 

No accountability, no apology. Huge ping increase for rural players on the west side of the country, and massive ping for anyone located west of the United States.

 

They know they're the worst. They simply don't care, and lying again and getting called out on it doesn't effect them at all.

And the people who said on a livestream that galactic command would have nothing to do with the CM and then galactic command XP boosters were put on the CM.

 

And then there was that thing recently, the BS about not being able to customize certain companions because something something maintaining the iconic look of the character, when it's obviously a technical struggle with models.

 

It does seem to be a company culture thing with them, not just individuals.

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