If there was a competitive Hutball league mercs and snipers would not be picked. They don't bring anything useful utility wise. The team would look something like this

 

Jug Tank- Protect ball carrier

2 Conceal OP- Ball Runners

1 Mara-Predation is enough to have 1

2 Sorc- Pulls heals

2 AP PT- Pulls Burst DPS

snipers are and always have been one of the best possible classes for hb. entrench along with their whole area control kit make them the best possible spec for spawn control, particularly in the pit where they can perch on a platform and roll onto spawn at will with entrench up. control ball spawn = control the game. at least when remotely even teams are concerned. When heals and guards are available, sniper + PT with a side of mara are the goto dps (imo, ofc). 2 conceal ops is a mistake...at least if you think they're going to carry (see below). there's always a use for a stealth dps who can be in the right place at the right time. there's never been an answer to interceding to a stealther. it's even better than sorc pulls...so long as the stealther doesn't make himself useless the rest of the match like they do in regs by just camping the endzone all match while the other team just controls spawn.

similarly, ops and mercs dominate as ball carriers in regs now b/c the good players don't play the map. they mostly DM at mid, often ignoring a carrier entirely. ops especially would absolutely melt in a real 8v8 game. the only reprieve they'd get is if they got off a roll in the right place to cause desync that shows them running on the floor when they're on the 3rd lvl (roll + holotraverse) which would make them unassailable for an extra 2-5 seconds (depending on how badly the desync hits individual opponents).

but really, I've seen good coordinated players just make mincemeat out of those ops who run rampant with the ball + lolroll. guard doesn't protect them with a proper team bearing down on them. mercs would last longer, but they lack mobility and would need considerable help. proper tanks would need to carry the ball in a real HB match. and even then, they might just explode with the super slow on carriers + the short timer. also, moving so slow would make fire pulls incredibly easy. I think if actual teams took HB seriously, the OPness of ops as ball carriers would disappear in the annals of bad Bioware balance decisions (next to bubble-stun on every teammate).

I think you'd want a merc to net someone, but they are a liability otherwise. burst is worst of burst specs. mobility is worst of dps classes. being the tankiest dps is meaningless when you have a proper tank. snipers and sorcs have better CC and range. so yeah. just the net afaik. agree with you there.

gawd. ranked HB was so much fun. now I'm sad thinking about it.

snipers are and always have been one of the best possible classes for hb. entrench along with their whole area control kit make them the best possible spec for spawn control, particularly in the pit where they can perch on a platform and roll onto spawn at will with entrench up. control ball spawn = control the game. at least when remotely even teams are concerned. When heals and guards are available, sniper + PT with a side of mara are the goto dps (imo, ofc). 2 conceal ops is a mistake...at least if you think they're going to carry (see below). there's always a use for a stealth dps who can be in the right place at the right time. there's never been an answer to interceding to a stealther. it's even better than sorc pulls...so long as the stealther doesn't make himself useless the rest of the match like they do in regs by just camping the endzone all match while the other team just controls spawn.

 

similarly, ops and mercs dominate as ball carriers in regs now b/c the good players don't play the map. they mostly DM at mid, often ignoring a carrier entirely. ops especially would absolutely melt in a real 8v8 game. the only reprieve they'd get is if they got off a roll in the right place to cause desync that shows them running on the floor when they're on the 3rd lvl (roll + holotraverse) which would make them unassailable for an extra 2-5 seconds (depending on how badly the desync hits individual opponents).

 

but really, I've seen good coordinated players just make mincemeat out of those ops who run rampant with the ball + lolroll. guard doesn't protect them with a proper team bearing down on them. mercs would last longer, but they lack mobility and would need considerable help. proper tanks would need to carry the ball in a real HB match. and even then, they might just explode with the super slow on carriers + the short timer. also, moving so slow would make fire pulls incredibly easy. I think if actual teams took HB seriously, the OPness of ops as ball carriers would disappear in the annals of bad Bioware balance decisions (next to bubble-stun on every teammate).

 

I think you'd want a merc to net someone, but they are a liability otherwise. burst is worst of burst specs. mobility is worst of dps classes. being the tankiest dps is meaningless when you have a proper tank. snipers and sorcs have better CC and range. so yeah. just the net afaik. agree with you there.

 

gawd. ranked HB was so much fun. now I'm sad thinking about it.

Snipers aren’t bad, they just wouldn’t be BiS meta in HB if it was ranked standard with preformed teams (like the old days).

In regs they can be devastating in HB because people allow them to free cast. But most snipers are also terrible and when you pressure them in HB they don’t know how to play it.

Snipers aren’t bad, they just wouldn’t be BiS meta in HB if it was ranked standard with preformed teams (like the old days).

 

In regs they can be devastating in HB because people allow them to free cast. But most snipers are also terrible and when you pressure them in HB they don’t know how to play it.

you don't play garbage snipers in ranked. and a HB league is 8v8 ranked. there's zero question that one good sniper alongside your PT, mara, sorc, sin, w/e is the very best way to lockdown spawn. they're the master CC class and the the master anti-CC class. we're not talking about garbage players playing their classes at 50% of their capacity. and they have 2 healers with at least 2 guards should the need to support them occur. but again, snipers you'd play in a ranked match? they don't need to be babysat, and they are acutely aware of their surroundings.

you don't play garbage snipers in ranked. and a HB league is 8v8 ranked. there's zero question that one good sniper alongside your PT, mara, sorc, sin, w/e is the very best way to lockdown spawn. they're the master CC class and the the master anti-CC class. we're not talking about garbage players playing their classes at 50% of their capacity. and they have 2 healers with at least 2 guards should the need to support them occur. but again, snipers you'd play in a ranked match? they don't need to be babysat, and they are acutely aware of their surroundings.

Maybe based on comps.

I guess it would be similar to how it is with team comps in current ranked. It all comes down to the other team and also the map.

I was mainly thinking I wouldn’t want to use a sniper in Quesh Ball. But I would use one in OHB and I’d flip a coin for Vandin.

Actually I would get more specific and actually use an engineering sniper in Vandin and a MM in OHB. I’d forgo a sniper in Quesh ball for and extra Sorc to force pull.

The thing is, this will all be null and void with the 7.0 changes. I’m already dreading how unbalanced certain maps will be for some classes.

Imagine being on a Jugg and having less mobility and DCDs while you have a MM sniper taking pot shots at you while you crawl 3 paces from the ball spawn and die (wanna hope they fix the dysnc and lag or people will be dying before they can pass).

People are gonna need to learn to pass fast after they pick up that ball or it’s passed to them.

Maybe based on comps.

I guess it would be similar to how it is with team comps in current ranked. It all comes down to the other team and also the map.

I was mainly thinking I wouldn’t want to use a sniper in Quesh Ball. But I would use one in OHB and I’d flip a coin for Vandin.

Actually I would get more specific and actually use an engineering sniper in Vandin and a MM in OHB. I’d forgo a sniper in Quesh ball for and extra Sorc to force pull.

The thing is, this will all be null and void with the 7.0 changes. I’m already dreading how unbalanced certain maps will be for some classes.

Imagine being on a Jugg and having less mobility and DCDs while you have a MM sniper taking pot shots at you while you crawl 3 paces from the ball spawn and die (wanna hope they fix the dysnc and lag or people will be dying before they can pass).

People are gonna need to learn to pass fast after they pick up that ball or it’s passed to them.

Snipers are good for all huttball, being the only class in the game to have consistent uptime to be immune to cc is huge for grabbing the ball when it spawns. Most times against good teams or groups, whoever has ball control wins, there are some matches where the moment the team gets the ball they score without fail. if you can't contest the ball spawn you lose, whats the point of having people to carry the ball if you can't actually get the ball when it spawns? xd I wasn't around for 8v8 ranked back in the days but have seen videos and have seen a lot of good snipers like caprica just sit by ball spawn so they have control over ball spawn 100% of the match basically

Snipers are good for all huttball, being the only class in the game to have consistent uptime to be immune to cc is huge for grabbing the ball when it spawns. Most times against good teams or groups, whoever has ball control wins, there are some matches where the moment the team gets the ball they score without fail. if you can't contest the ball spawn you lose, whats the point of having people to carry the ball if you can't actually get the ball when it spawns? xd I wasn't around for 8v8 ranked back in the days but have seen videos and have seen a lot of good snipers like caprica just sit by ball spawn so they have control over ball spawn 100% of the match basically

How many snipers do you see doing that these days?

How many snipers do you see doing that these days?

As the comment was regarded as to how they should be played in huttball, I would assume that is what a lot of good teams would be using for a 8v8 ranked huttball scenario. I could be wrong though

I was mainly thinking I wouldn’t want to use a sniper in Quesh Ball. But I would use one in OHB and I’d flip a coin for Vandin.

quesh is aids and shouldn't exist. but I'd love to have a sniper entrench on the corner, catch a pass that cannot be stopped, and then roll across the slime to the EZ.

controlling spawn in quesh isn't very important. but what is important is being able to pass the ball as no decent team of 8 players will allow 1 player to carry all the way to the EZ, as you've noted, that's almost impossible with the bomb timer. so who would you rather pass the ball to than an entrenched sniper on a ledge (preferably corner before slime so he can just roll across it once and score)?

How many snipers do you see doing that these days?

how many good players have you seen take HB seriously at all? as with my previous comment, the idea here is that players (particularly the ranked level ones who largely ignore objectives) take the objective seriously.

God what is wrong with you people? If you would actually just play the game and not spend all your time on the forums you would see that most regs is just pugs v pugs. You all seem to think the only reason you are losing in regs is because the other side is a premade. A 4 man or 8 man in discord is calling objs and focus targets. Get help seriously. If there was a "group regs queue" I promise you it would pop less then solo rank full stop. Here's a fun fact; sometimes people will just guard healers, use taunts focus targets and follow a deathball because it just makes sense. Some people just have map awareness and are able to use their abilities and dcds effectively. I played about 6 matches last night and the quality of players is gotten so low that I really don't think premades are the issue here. I haven't seen more people without set bonus's in blue, green and purple gear since the days of impside Ebon Hawk. I went to a node solo on a mara in poopergate and killed the jugg there. While the jugg was still alive trying to spam cap another mara was attacking me. I killed him too then capped. This was after their team rushed our node on the first turn and took it. After that 3 people from my team followed me to their node and we capped theirs but those who still went to our node were unable to cap. Literally the other 4 could not cap on 2 people from the other team. This is literally how most games play out. Its not premades most of you are just not good and need to learn how to kill stuff. This is the hard truth. Say all you want its not about doing numbers but the people that can do numbers and actually kill stuff are the people who can carry games and take objs if they want. Maybe people choose to just deathmatch because its not fun carrying a bunch of witless idiots match after match. Have any of you ever really thought about it and looked inward to reflect on what you are doing wrong in the game? How many of you don't cc the merc or use aoe on him when he uses his bubbles? Because from what I see day after day people still focus the merc while he has bubbles filling his health back up. How many of you make sure to inflict trauma on people who are getting healed if you can? Now instead of taking my words of advice to heart feel free to be children and attack me while edgy insults and passive aggressive remarks.

Oh I know for a fact what I am saying. Premades make new players give up on pvp. It personaly bothers me to play a one sided pvp,most of the time bcos of thia issue,either winning or losing.

So whats the point in even queue for regs with your full hardcore premade? Not that I take regs that serious, but I still want to have fun. Theres no fun at all when you know whos goin to win by the time the fight starts. I insist, hard core premades really dont care about winning, sure,but they want to group up on pugs just to feel powerful and mighty,while most of em cant stand a fair fight without their group.So they want a easy win or kill dps farm,regardless on the result of the match.

I know its Nice to play with friends. I do that alot too. I just think its boring af to face a group of pugs when I'm in a premade and same thing the otherwise. Its just burocratic pvp for me. And it keeps new players away, most of the time. Só thats why I think a change in this system should be made. It would benefit everyone. If I want to go with my friends,I will have to face another group of friends. Sounds way more fair to me.

And no,it wont make it harder for regs to pop cos the pugs still the majority of the players queueing.It will make it harder for a premade to be as predominant tho,cos they would be facing another premade. If you play a premade,like I dont half of the time I pvp and u still dont agree with that,I'm sry,but u just want an easy fight:(..maybe to show off or something,I dont reallt know.

I agree with you tho when u say that the quality of ppl gotten really low,100%. Ppl really need to learn when to cc break,use their cc and dcd, taunt etc. But that only makes the premade problem even worse! Seriously, I feel really bad when me and my guys are fighting against a group of pugs with no experience with the class they playing. Its just a boring massacre. I cant believe the other premades dont feel the same.

Oh I know for a fact what I am saying. Premades make new players give up on pvp.

4 bad players in a group, whether heal+tank comp or 4dps, do not make new players quit PvP. The only thing you are concerned about is being matched against good players. This hasn't been and never will be a problem with people being grouped. It's a problem with people being better than others and the game not having the population to match them against players with similar skill levels.

4 bad players in a group, whether heal+tank comp or 4dps, do not make new players quit PvP. The only thing you are concerned about is being matched against good players. This hasn't been and never will be a problem with people being grouped. It's a problem with people being better than others and the game not having the population to match them against players with similar skill levels.

Low population makes everything worse, but that also means a knowledgeable player or two makes a huge difference. That’s especially true in Huttball, because any class can pass.

4 bad players in a group, whether heal+tank comp or 4dps, do not make new players quit PvP. The only thing you are concerned about is being matched against good players. This hasn't been and never will be a problem with people being grouped. It's a problem with people being better than others and the game not having the population to match them against players with similar skill levels.

You missing the point lol. Its a premade against pugs. Só u never know what to expect when u are in a pug group. Sometimes they can be good and sometimes they sux. But when you fighting against a premade,it is most of the times one sided,unless u are lucky enought to get a good pug group which is pretty rare these days. So if u trully believe even an avarage premade dosent change the game most of the times,u either not doing pvp very often or it just happens that u are one of those premade guys.

From one Karim to another, I agree with the OP.

Thank you.

If you had friends to queue with in WZ that were even somewhat competent you wouldn't have came to the forums in the first place to add another "no more premades in regs" thread to the endless pile of threads with this exact same topic. At this point the game has less regular premades then ever given Biowares inifinite neglect of PVP over the past several years. You got destroyed in a few games and weren't able to win with a bunch of random solos going for muh objs and got so worked up you had to blow off some steam by posting hoping others would share in your distress and rally around you to echo your frustrations. 9 times out of 10 even if your team loses the other team does not have 4 people in a group. The bads on your team just happen to be worse then the bads on the other team.

que desgradable tu comentario, quien te crees para hablarle a alguien asá a alguin ??!!!

éste es un juego y cuando hacen trampa es frustrante para cualquiera y además desmotiva a todos, probablemente eres unos de esos Grankers que ama hacer trampa

que desgradable tu comentario, quien te crees para hablarle a alguien asá a alguin ??!!!

éste es un juego y cuando hacen trampa es frustrante para cualquiera y además desmotiva a todos, probablemente eres unos de esos Grankers que ama hacer trampa

For those who don’t speak Spanish. Here’s a translation:

“How disgusting your comment, who do you think you speak to someone like this to someone ?? !!!

This is a game and when they cheat it is frustrating for anyone and also demotivates everyone, you are probably one of those Grankers who loves to cheat”

if the ranked premade groups are trolling regs, then just start signing up for solo ranked and troll them and their ranked score. They get really touchy about it.

I like the s***s and giggles value of this, but it's not likely to happen because ranked players tend to premade regs when ranked isn't popping.

I like the s***s and giggles value of this, but it's not likely to happen because ranked players tend to premade regs when ranked isn't popping.

But group ranked never pops because most ranked players can’t handle granked. Which means these are solo ranked players grouping up for regs instead of queuing into regs like they do for ranked. Then they use all the lame excuses to justify it. Imagine being a ranked player whose too intimidated to play group ranked, but trolls regs in premades 🤣

You only need to look at how unsuccessful group ranked is to realise these guys don’t want competitive premade vs premade matches. They only want to stomp other players.

So get rid of group/solo ranked and the seperate reg queues of lowbies, mids, lvl 75 and merge them into two new solo queues of Arena and Objective pvp. Give everyone access to max lvl abilities and gear, no matter their lvl.

With all the pvpers together, there are more people in the one queue so that matchmaking and ELO should seperate the newbies from the top tier players. Without premades those games should be more balanced. And only the top 200 players have their ELO ranking published. Everyone else’s remains private so only they can see it.

But group ranked never pops because most ranked players can’t handle granked. Which means these are solo ranked players grouping up for regs instead of queuing into regs like they do for ranked. Then they use all the lame excuses to justify it. Imagine being a ranked player whose too intimidated to play group ranked, but trolls regs in premades 🤣

 

You only need to look at how unsuccessful group ranked is to realise these guys don’t want competitive premade vs premade matches. They only want to stomp other players.

So get rid of group/solo ranked and the seperate reg queues of lowbies, mids, lvl 75 and merge them into two new solo queues of Arena and Objective pvp. Give everyone access to max lvl abilities and gear, no matter their lvl.

 

With all the pvpers together, there are more people in the one queue so that matchmaking and ELO should seperate the newbies from the top tier players. Without premades those games should be more balanced. And only the top 200 players have their ELO ranking published. Everyone else’s remains private so only they can see it.

Either way, if ranked isn't popping, it's pretty difficult to troll ranked. I agree on the unified queue/hidden rating idea. If BW ever did it, it would be awesome.

But group ranked never pops because most ranked players can’t handle granked. Which means these are solo ranked players grouping up for regs instead of queuing into regs like they do for ranked. Then they use all the lame excuses to justify it. Imagine being a ranked player whose too intimidated to play group ranked, but trolls regs in premades 🤣

 

You only need to look at how unsuccessful group ranked is to realise these guys don’t want competitive premade vs premade matches. They only want to stomp other players.

So get rid of group/solo ranked and the seperate reg queues of lowbies, mids, lvl 75 and merge them into two new solo queues of Arena and Objective pvp. Give everyone access to max lvl abilities and gear, no matter their lvl.

 

With all the pvpers together, there are more people in the one queue so that matchmaking and ELO should seperate the newbies from the top tier players. Without premades those games should be more balanced. And only the top 200 players have their ELO ranking published. Everyone else’s remains private so only they can see it.

Couldnt agree more with everything u just said. And the excuses are the best lol. Hopefully some changes will be done to this in the near futuro.

if the ranked premade groups are trolling regs, then just start signing up for solo ranked and troll them and their ranked score. They get really touchy about it.

This is hilarious lol. Me like

I've played probably 40 games in the last 3 days and have been in 3 winning games in unranked. So I've given up PVP in this game due to it, I'm not the best PVPer anymore as age has cought up to me and I just don't care to be among the best anymore.

I PVP for fun only, but SWTOR PVP is the farthest thing from fun I can think of as it stands now so why bother doing something that isn't fun right?

We have guild events for PVP, so I know the PVP in SWTOR CAN be fun, but getting ganked over and over in un even matches just puts me off, I'm not really sure anything can be done about it though because people play who they play with and limiting who they can play with will just piss them off.

Anyway rant over ;P