Disney just retconned away the EU Sith Pureblood race by canonizing the Sith origins without them.

https://screenrant.com/star-wars-sith-origin-jedi-order-canon-explained/

Disney just retconned away the EU Sith Pureblood race by canonizing the Sith origins without them.

 

https://screenrant.com/star-wars-sith-origin-jedi-order-canon-explained/

So I'm reading it they are saying there never was a pure Sith Race so where does that leave the purebloods in this game? They don't count cause its not cannon?

So I'm reading it they are saying there never was a pure Sith Race so where does that leave the purebloods in this game? They don't count cause its not cannon?

This game is not canon, so nothing here is affected.

This game is not canon, so nothing here is affected.

Ahh ok the whole Cannon thing kind of confuses me. Cannon is like from the books/movies?

The canon defines the "official" history and lore.

What this move does is provide the canonical Sith origin story. Since it does so without the Sith race at all, that's it for them in the "official" Star Wars timeline and history - they simply don't exist. This game is probably the last they will be seen.

Sucks big time. They are one of the most interesting parts of the EU.

Ahh ok the whole Cannon thing kind of confuses me. Cannon is like from the books/movies?

Canon (one N in the middle - a cannon is a large gun) is the definitive text or other work, and when Disney took over, they declared that going forward, the existing movies and a couple of other things would be "canon", with new works being added to (i.e. approved by someone at Disney) the canon as time went on.

I get it I just googled and read up on some of the stuff pretty interesting been watching youtube vids of different Sith lords lol.

But ya that does suck, I was hoping one day they would make like a Star Wars dark side Sith type movie, all the stuff now is all hero's want to see some villain's. But ya most of my toons are Sith purebloods

Disney just retconned away the EU Sith Pureblood race by canonizing the Sith origins without them.

 

https://screenrant.com/star-wars-sith-origin-jedi-order-canon-explained/

Given that the game is over 3000 years before the movies, and at least 2000 years before Darth Bane, it is certainly plausible that the dark jedi referenced in this article chose to call themselves Sith based on rumors and legends of a species in the distant past. I mean, its at least as plausible as the notion that Tython could be forgotten along with Ach-To, or that Korriban would have its name changed to Moriband. Even Lucas himself confirmed Korriban and Moriband were the same physical planet.

"Because past" seems to be a handy excuse/mechanism for these kinds of retcons, pretty inconsequential to the larger story on either side of the historical dividing line. That's why the "high republic" project of novels is only 300 years before the movies.

Ahh ok the whole Cannon thing kind of confuses me. Cannon is like from the books/movies?

Well, technically a cannon is a large mounted weapon that fires heavy projectiles.

Prior to 2014 Star Wars canon was a bit complicated and convoluted. The only material that was definitely, officially, absolutely canon were the films. In 2001 during an interview for Cinescape magazine Lucas said:

"There are two worlds here. There's my world, which is the movies, and there's this other world that has been created, which I say is the parallel universe—the licensing world of the books, games and comic books. They don't intrude on my world, which is a select period of time, [but] they do intrude in between the movies. I don't get too involved in the parallel universe."

Then 2005 during an interview for Starlog magazine Lucas said:

"I don't read that stuff. I haven't read any of the novels. I don't know anything about that world. That's a different world than my world. But I do try to keep it consistent. The way I do it now is they have a Star Wars Encyclopedia. So if I come up with a name or something else, I look it up and see if it has already been used. When I said [other people] could make their own Star Wars stories, we decided that, like Star Trek, we would have two universes: My universe and then this other one. They try to make their universe as consistent with mine as possible, but obviously they get enthusiastic and want to go off in other directions."

Both quotes sourced on Wookieepedia in the article about canon.

So even prior to 2014 there was the George Lucas canon, the films, and then there was the Expended Universe canon, and whilst the two were largely kept consistent they were separate. In the end though, Lucas had final say, which is why in canon Korriban is called Moriband, because Lucas changed the name, and the EU had to retcon the name to maintain continuity (they decided the ancient name was Korriban, which is why that is used in the game, but the modern name is Moriband).

In truth, the relationship between G-Canon (the six films, original and prequel trilogies), T-Canon (the Clone Wars animated film and series), and all lower levels of canon was a big, snarled, tangled, convoluted mess worthy of praise by the Giant Flying Spaghetti Monster. The Extended Universe was rife with contradictions, retcons to try to force continuity, and although there were some very well crafted stories, there was a whole lot of dross.

After Disney acquired the Star Wars IP they decided that the easiest thing to do was to mark all material that was not directly produced by Lucasfilm (meaning the six films and the animated Clone Wars) as non-canon. All material that was part of the Extended Universe was marked as Legends and that includes this game, as well as the Knights of the Old Republic I and II games.

Since 2014, Disney has been slowly reintegrating some material from Legends. They have not always reintroduced concepts and stories verbatim, but there are a number of elements that have reappeared. For example, the Rise of Skywalker story arc involving Emperor Palpatine coming back as a clone was originally presented as a story in the Dark Horse Comics mini-series Dark Empire, which saw not only Emperor Palpatine in a cloned body, but also Luke fall to the dark side and serve Palpatine.

Currently, the only material that is considered canon are Lucas's original work, six films, notes, scripts, etc., the Clone Wars animated film and series, and any works commissioned or produced by Disney since 2014.

Well, technically a cannon is a large mounted weapon that fires heavy projectiles.

 

Prior to 2014 Star Wars canon was a bit complicated and convoluted. The only material that was definitely, officially, absolutely canon were the films. In 2001 during an interview for Cinescape magazine Lucas said:

 

"There are two worlds here. There's my world, which is the movies, and there's this other world that has been created, which I say is the parallel universe—the licensing world of the books, games and comic books. They don't intrude on my world, which is a select period of time, [but] they do intrude in between the movies. I don't get too involved in the parallel universe."

 

Then 2005 during an interview for Starlog magazine Lucas said:

 

"I don't read that stuff. I haven't read any of the novels. I don't know anything about that world. That's a different world than my world. But I do try to keep it consistent. The way I do it now is they have a Star Wars Encyclopedia. So if I come up with a name or something else, I look it up and see if it has already been used. When I said [other people] could make their own Star Wars stories, we decided that, like Star Trek, we would have two universes: My universe and then this other one. They try to make their universe as consistent with mine as possible, but obviously they get enthusiastic and want to go off in other directions."

 

Both quotes sourced on Wookieepedia in the article about canon.

 

So even prior to 2014 there was the George Lucas canon, the films, and then there was the Expended Universe canon, and whilst the two were largely kept consistent they were separate. In the end though, Lucas had final say, which is why in canon Korriban is called Moriband, because Lucas changed the name, and the EU had to retcon the name to maintain continuity (they decided the ancient name was Korriban, which is why that is used in the game, but the modern name is Moriband).

 

In truth, the relationship between G-Canon (the six films, original and prequel trilogies), T-Canon (the Clone Wars animated film and series), and all lower levels of canon was a big, snarled, tangled, convoluted mess worthy of praise by the Giant Flying Spaghetti Monster. The Extended Universe was rife with contradictions, retcons to try to force continuity, and although there were some very well crafted stories, there was a whole lot of dross.

 

After Disney acquired the Star Wars IP they decided that the easiest thing to do was to mark all material that was not directly produced by Lucasfilm (meaning the six films and the animated Clone Wars) as non-canon. All material that was part of the Extended Universe was marked as Legends and that includes this game, as well as the Knights of the Old Republic I and II games.

 

Since 2014, Disney has been slowly reintegrating some material from Legends. They have not always reintroduced concepts and stories verbatim, but there are a number of elements that have reappeared. For example, the Rise of Skywalker story arc involving Emperor Palpatine coming back as a clone was originally presented as a story in the Dark Horse Comics mini-series Dark Empire, which saw not only Emperor Palpatine in a cloned body, but also Luke fall to the dark side and serve Palpatine.

 

Currently, the only material that is considered canon are Lucas's original work, six films, notes, scripts, etc., the Clone Wars animated film and series, and any works commissioned or produced by Disney since 2014.

Thank you for explaining it!

**** that false canon ****! Of course Sith race existed and if someone says something different he / she is idiot! DisCanon is a Lie! There is only Expanded Universe! :-P

Hey, you want the Extended Universe that is fine. No one is going to come into your house and burn your old EU books and comics. All Disney did was put an end to the wishy-washy pseudo-canon that existed for the EU. But if you want the EU you have to take the EU.

Like that time Chewbacca was killed when the Yuuzhan Vong decided to crash Dobido, the smallest moon of Sernpidal, into the planet and Chewie died whilst saving Anakin, the youngest son of Han and Leia Solo.

And all those times that Luke was a really bad (so terribly, terribly bad) teacher and all the apprentices that turned to the dark side because Luke trained them. Or did not train them. It really did not matter if Luke trained them or not, so very many of them fell to the dark side. Yeah, that is another element Disney brought back from the EU for the sequel trilogy. Seriously, Luke's depiction in The Last Jedi pales in comparison to the very long list of failures as a teacher and a Jedi in the EU.

Which brings up that time that Luke became the clone Palpatines hit man.

And we must not forget about Luuke Skywalker, the clone of Luke Skywalker made from Luke's severed hand, and how Luke lost to Luuke.

How about that time when Luke saved the whales (whaladon) on Calamari?

And R5-D4? You remember R5-D4, right? The red astromech droid on Tatooine that Uncle Owen purchased. Yeah. That droid's name is Skippy. And it can use the Force. It had a vision that the Rebellion would fail, Leia would die, and the whole galaxy would would be ****** unless it sabotaged itself and used the Force to suggest to C-3PO that the Skywalkers take R2 instead. Yep, Skippy saved the galaxy.

Shall we mention Darth Vader's magic glove? Nah.

Think the story about Rey being Palpatine's grandchild sucks? Allow me to introduce Ken, the Jedi Prince grandchild of Emperor Palpatine.

The Crystal Star. That introduced wyrwolves, and centaurs, and a cult led by an evil golden blob named Waru that Luke decides is pretty cool and starts to worship. And that is enough said about that.

And let us not forget about that time when Luke fell in love with the Force ghost of a Jedi who died ~20 years before the Battle of Yavin, Callista Masana, who is haunting the body of one of Luke's dead students, Cray Mingla, who decided to die because their lover, Nichos Marr, was just a Force using droid and not a real boy.

Also, Luke was a terrible father in the EU.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to hold onto the Extended Universe, but it can not be denied that the EU had some really, terribly, horribly awful stories and plot lines. Disney really had no choice but to make a clean break. If they had tried to excise only the bad parts someone, somewhere, more than likely quite a few someones, would have cried foul that their favorite story was being cut from canon, and why was this book cut while that book was kept. It all had to go so they could start from a clean slate.

Hey, you want the Extended Universe that is fine. No one is going to come into your house and burn your old EU books and comics. All Disney did was put an end to the wishy-washy pseudo-canon that existed for the EU. But if you want the EU you have to take the EU.

 

(lots of funny stuff snipped)

It is important to remember that not all of the EU is Zahn's Thrawn trilogy, for sure.

There are good ways to honor the works previous and not-so-good ways. Dave Filoni knows how to incorporate that stuff. JJ Abrams does not. For example, Dave Filoni uses Malachor, and even though its a single planet instead the 5th in the system, it still evokes negative emotions (see Cpt. Rex's reactions), and was a site of thousands of dead Jedi, and thereby pays homage to the work without committing to its previous status as a site for Revan or the Exile.

JJ Abrams leaves the Dejarik table on the Millenium Falcon in the state it was in "A New Hope" and thinks his homage is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

I didn't agree with Lucas' reasoning for the name change (he thought Korriban sounded too close to Coruscant), but it was at least plausible, and he didn't go an take a dump on the EU. In fact, if i recall correctly, the name Coruscant first came from the novels, and he decided to keep it for Episode I.

Then Abrams decides not only is he just going to create a whole new MacGuffin even though "Sith Holocron" would have fit the bill perfectly, but he's also going to just make up brand new homeworlds altogether for the Jedi and Sith.

That's what I have a problem with. I don't have a problem with Disney needing to do certain things to start fresh. I have a problem when they don't utilize the talent within the organization to maintain a cohesive story that on occasion makes the effort to honor the work done previously. I have a problem when the directors and producers of the sequel trilogy didn't even involve the Lucasfilm Story Group to even try and make some effort to even be consistent with "Clone Wars". They didn't even try to maintain continuity within their sequel! And it was definitely a JJ Abrams problem, because Rogue One and even Solo had no problem maintaining some loose connection to the EU. Its not like the conversion of hypermatter to coaxium is a big deal (no, its not the same as Sith wayfinders vs Sith holocrons), and Kessel is still a spice mine with a difficult hyperspace route to get to it, despite its other natural resource.

Anyway, I'm probably off topic at this point.

It is important to remember that not all of the EU is Zahn's Thrawn trilogy, for sure.

 

There are good ways to honor the works previous and not-so-good ways. Dave Filoni knows how to incorporate that stuff. JJ Abrams does not. For example, Dave Filoni uses Malachor, and even though its a single planet instead the 5th in the system, it still evokes negative emotions (see Cpt. Rex's reactions), and was a site of thousands of dead Jedi, and thereby pays homage to the work without committing to its previous status as a site for Revan or the Exile.

 

JJ Abrams leaves the Dejarik table on the Millenium Falcon in the state it was in "A New Hope" and thinks his homage is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

 

I didn't agree with Lucas' reasoning for the name change (he thought Korriban sounded too close to Coruscant), but it was at least plausible, and he didn't go an take a dump on the EU. In fact, if i recall correctly, the name Coruscant first came from the novels, and he decided to keep it for Episode I.

 

Then Abrams decides not only is he just going to create a whole new MacGuffin even though "Sith Holocron" would have fit the bill perfectly, but he's also going to just make up brand new homeworlds altogether for the Jedi and Sith.

 

That's what I have a problem with. I don't have a problem with Disney needing to do certain things to start fresh. I have a problem when they don't utilize the talent within the organization to maintain a cohesive story that on occasion makes the effort to honor the work done previously. I have a problem when the directors and producers of the sequel trilogy didn't even involve the Lucasfilm Story Group to even try and make some effort to even be consistent with "Clone Wars". They didn't even try to maintain continuity within their sequel! And it was definitely a JJ Abrams problem, because Rogue One and even Solo had no problem maintaining some loose connection to the EU. Its not like the conversion of hypermatter to coaxium is a big deal (no, its not the same as Sith wayfinders vs Sith holocrons), and Kessel is still a spice mine with a difficult hyperspace route to get to it, despite its other natural resource.

 

Anyway, I'm probably off topic at this point.

The problem originates a little higher than JJ with Kathleen Kennedy.

dam I hope she gets the boot next year... give her job to Filoni or even Favreau, can all the projects she started and give Star Wars the future that TCW S7 and Mandalorian show it still can have.

Anyway, I'm probably off topic at this point.

The discussion is about Disney canon and the EU, so I think you are good.

Understand that I do not have a problem with the EU. I recognize that there were some truly excellent stories that came out of it, and that having beloved content designated as non-canon can be hurtful. There is a feeling of loss. To be honest, I know far more about EU canon that I do about Disney canon other than the films. When I go to Wookieepedia it is almost always to look at Legends material.

I suppose, for myself, like Lucas, I always viewed the EU as a separate continuity. The EU was allowed to explore areas of the galaxy that Lucas never intended to go so long as the content shaped itself around G-Canon (Lucas canon). That was okay, but it did pose more than a few problems that resulted in some convoluted retconning in the EU. It is also true that for as much really good content there was also a lot of really bad content.

It is a lot easier to accept the sequels and Disney canon if one accepts that the EU was always separate from the films. I think therein lies much of the consternation. People merged the EU with the films into a single canon when the two should have been kept as distinct but related entities. I think in doing so many people went into the sequel films with expectations that were not met. But those were unrealistic expectations.

That is not to say that the sequel films are superb works of art on par with the greatest works of film ever produced. Far from it. But then, neither are the OT and PT films. As they say over at CinemaSins, no movie is without sin. That also does not mean that I did not enjoy them. I did. As well as Solo, and Rogue One, and the prequels when they came out. I love Star Wars, and I did not walk into the theater with expectations, so I was able to enjoy the sequel films for what they are: imperfect science fiction fantasies.

Understand that I do not have a problem with the EU. I recognize that there were some truly excellent stories that came out of it, and that having beloved content designated as non-canon can be hurtful. There is a feeling of loss. To be honest, I know far more about EU canon that I do about Disney canon other than the films. When I go to Wookieepedia it is almost always to look at Legends material.

Yeah, this is where I am at too. I just see this particular move as one of the more dumb, needless, and wasteful ones.

The EU Sith origin story was *fine*. it was not inconsistent. They could even resolve the "where are the purebloods now?" question with one minor modification (sometime soon after the current events in SWTOR the Jedi/pubs would need to finish the genocide they perpetrated at the end of the Great Hyperspace War - it fits in with the various pubside military "ends/means" storylines just fine).

The Sith Pureblood origin story is rich and interesting and lends nicely to lots of associated work (e.g. the SoR plotline where Sith genes are present in 99% of Imperial citizens and are targeted by Revan's bioweapon). The Sith themselves are deep and have lots of nuance - dark side ones being what you would expect, light side ones like Praven being basically Klingons - honorbound warriors loyal to their faction, but following a code.

GAH. Too many words. Basically, for me it boils down to "Mess with Han blasting Greedo? Who cares. Mess with my toons? FITE ME!"

The problem originates a little higher than JJ with Kathleen Kennedy.

 

dam I hope she gets the boot next year... give her job to Filoni or even Favreau, can all the projects she started and give Star Wars the future that TCW S7 and Mandalorian show it still can have.

I can't really completely blame her since we do have The Mandalorian, Rebels, Season 6 & 7 of Clone Wars, and Rogue One all under her watch. Not to mention the Obi Wan series, though there are still a lot unknowns about it. I blame her to the extent that she went along with or otherwise approved of not involving the Lucasfilm Story Group in the development of the sequels. It's not like I'm an industry insider or anything, and its clear she is not the same degree of "hands-on" during filming/production that Lucas was, but I can't help thinking that this isn't about her. After all, Lucas chose Filoni to shepherd The Clone Wars ... he chose Kennedy to replace him as he sold Lucasfilm to Disney. So, Lucas must have "felt some good in her" at some point. I won't be shedding any tears though if and when she is replaced.

I'm on the record as feeling OK about the Force Awakens, thinking it had a lot of potential. I'm also on the record as really enjoying the Last Jedi ... it's one of my favorites ... despite how it apparently subverted TFA. But Rise of Skywalker just stunk, and it covers the other two films in a stench of disappointment, lost potential, ridiculous easter eggs, and plot holes the size of Texas.

Ugh. When your primary goal is to make a movie that doesn't suck, its almost guaranteed to do so, and it ruined the other two films in the process, in my opinion.

Haven't we got that High Republic thing coming to Disney plus as well, kind of wish there was a swtor series but that's never going to happen.

Referral link here: http://www.swtor.com/r/qqQF4M

Like that time Chewbacca was killed when the Yuuzhan Vong decided to crash Dobido, the smallest moon of Sernpidal, into the planet and Chewie died whilst saving Anakin, the youngest son of Han and Leia Solo.

I never read that because I decided not go beyond Survivor's Quest, but I read many posts from people who like NJO era.

And all those times that Luke was a really bad (so terribly, terribly bad) teacher and all the apprentices that turned to the dark side because Luke trained them. Or did not train them. It really did not matter if Luke trained them or not, so very many of them fell to the dark side. Yeah, that is another element Disney brought back from the EU for the sequel trilogy. Seriously, Luke's depiction in The Last Jedi pales in comparison to the very long list of failures as a teacher and a Jedi in the EU. Also, Luke was a terrible father in the EU.

Well, we must take new villains somewhere. It is not actually bad idea (by my opinion), but must be in hands of very good writer.

Which brings up that time that Luke became the clone Palpatines hit man.

And we must not forget about Luuke Skywalker, the clone of Luke Skywalker made from Luke's severed hand, and how Luke lost to Luuke.

This is weaker part, but not that bad as other things.

And R5-D4? You remember R5-D4, right? The red astromech droid on Tatooine that Uncle Owen purchased. Yeah. That droid's name is Skippy. And it can use the Force. It had a vision that the Rebellion would fail, Leia would die, and the whole galaxy would would be ****** unless it sabotaged itself and used the Force to suggest to C-3PO that the Skywalkers take R2 instead. Yep, Skippy saved the galaxy.

This is comedic fan story never considered canon. In EU it was sabotaged by R2. :-D

Shall we mention Darth Vader's magic glove? Nah.

How about that time when Luke saved the whales (whaladon) on Calamari?

Think the story about Rey being Palpatine's grandchild sucks? Allow me to introduce Ken, the Jedi Prince grandchild of Emperor Palpatine.

Yes, the Jedi Prince series suck. I am lucky that I didn´t read it (only plot on wookiepedia). :-D

The Crystal Star. That introduced wyrwolves, and centaurs, and a cult led by an evil golden blob named Waru that Luke decides is pretty cool and starts to worship. And that is enough said about that.

Yes, this should be forgotten. :-D

And let us not forget about that time when Luke fell in love with the Force ghost of a Jedi who died ~20 years before the Battle of Yavin, Callista Masana, who is haunting the body of one of Luke's dead students, Cray Mingla, who decided to die because their lover, Nichos Marr, was just a Force using droid and not a real boy.

That 1st part sounds interesting, but Force using droid?! ***?!

There is nothing wrong with wanting to hold onto the Extended Universe, but it can not be denied that the EU had some really, terribly, horribly awful stories and plot lines. Disney really had no choice but to make a clean break. If they had tried to excise only the bad parts someone, somewhere, more than likely quite a few someones, would have cried foul that their favorite story was being cut from canon, and why was this book cut while that book was kept. It all had to go so they could start from a clean slate.

I never said that EU doesn't have some bull***** and terrible stories, but deacanonizing EU is not solution and never will be. Disney just decided to hide hole in a wall behind bad painting.