Wow. That's just...a lot of words I can't say here.

 

My support and sympathy goes out to Jennifer Hepler.

 

That definitely provides another perspective on why Bioware may be reluctant to give us an official answer on the SGRA issue in The Old Republic.

 

Some people...sheesh.

Whatever you do, never go to the Mass Effect 3 GameFAQs board. There is an entire topic on this, with people fearing that she'll "gay up" characters like was done with Anders. Because apparently, having a bisexual character flirt with the male character when it FITS HIS PERSONALITY is an unforgivable sin in writing. The insults just get pettier and pettier. (The word "cow" is used a few times...)

This is honestly frightening when you take it into context with SWTOR SGRA's. How many writers would get harrassed for "ruining" the current cast if they do so? How far do they have to hide in same-sex romance to avoid massive blowback?

Can I quit being a part of humanity, please? I don't enjoy being in the same category as people like that.

Can I quit being a part of humanity, please? I don't enjoy being in the same category as people like that.

You're not, believe me. They're the bottom-feeders of the gamer world. You're a much, much better person than they could hope to be.

This is my first post to the forums since launch. I did not start on launch day as I am usually broke at the end of the month and I received this game as a belated Christmas present from my ex and her boyfriend on the condition that I play on their server and join their guild (mostly made up of guildmates from Star Wars Galaxies so easy condition) They wanted to clear it with me on Xmas Day before buying it for me, since it is a subscription game.

They were both in the closed beta whereas I only got to play Thanksgiving weekend. I only sampled a Jedi Consular up to level 10 so the only romance I encountered was a flirty padawan who called me cute and one flirt option with the Courscanti Senator which I did not choose.

When I was over on Christmas day, they were showing me the game and answering my questions. My ex showed me her ship and her companions stationed around telling me one of them was her husband. And I was intrigued. I asked you can marry your companions? and the response was an enthusiastic yes. Then I asked what I thought would have been a no-brainer to do but certainly not a given, "Can you marry someone the same gender?" I was given the answer we all know much to my dissapointment. I was then told how it was a hot topic on the forums and many reasons people want that content. My friends told me they were going to implement it and I felt content with that, that it was on the way. Should have been there at launch, but later is better than never.

Now I am a casual player, I only have two characters and they are low level but over the president's day weekend a friend and I worked a lot and did all the Dromund Kass content (well finished tuesday night) and I am getting more invested in the game and its content, so I decided to look on the forums and this was the first thread I sought out. Its grown and shrunk a lot over the 3 or 4 days I have spent reading it in its entirety.

My attitude is less hopeful now having invested the time in reading about this issue. Now I am bisexual, so I am not entirely cut off from this style of playing. I am quite enjoying the budding romance between my Bounty Hunter Hodayc and Mako, but in future characters I am sure I would find male companions attractive and wish to pursue things with them. Unlike others this is not an I will take my money elsewhere issue. I enjoy the stories in this game and Bioware is known for its good writing (Though the only other Bioware game I have played was KOTOR which I loved and the main reason my current title proudly proclaims me a Revanite) but the lack of romance options for same sex relationships if they are going to have a romance mechanic at all in 2012, is wrong.

It simply ain't right and the (I hesitate to use this term because of the LGBT connotations) STONEWALLING from Bioware on even commenting on the issue is not helping matters at all. Honestly all things aside I find nothing glaringly wrong in this game (other than stranding a friend in my Hanger Bay for a few days when my sub was up and I was a few days from payday) I enjoy this game immensely, but I do want the option to flirt with my own gender along with my opposite gender and I am beside myself as to wondering why a game that has a romance mechanic did not include this.

Whatever you do, never go to the Mass Effect 3 GameFAQs board. There is an entire topic on this, with people fearing that she'll "gay up" characters like was done with Anders. Because apparently, having a bisexual character flirt with the male character when it FITS HIS PERSONALITY is an unforgivable sin in writing. The insults just get pettier and pettier. (The word "cow" is used a few times...)

<...........>

Can I quit being a part of humanity, please? I don't enjoy being in the same category as people like that.

What ruined Anders for me was turning him into an angsty emo git. Him flirting with my male Hawke without provocation was the last straw (where is the Renegade interrupt when you need it the most?). And no, I don't think it fits his personality. At all.

On the sidenote, I can actually see Kaidan Alenko willing to learn a few things from male Shepard. Although, I see The First Human Spectre as purely professional, "military-sexual", but that's my understanding (and handling) of the character.

You're not, believe me. They're the bottom-feeders of the gamer world. You're a much, much better person than they could hope to be.

*Feeds teh bottom* Reminds me of my mom saying that I'm a unique, special snowflake back when I was little. Boy, was I in for a rude awakening.

Ok, just a quick point...

Do you guys even realise that the devs are simply not permitted to give out certain information? A person can be fired from work of fined for telling you anything about this thing. So no matter how demanding you are, you will NOT get any news before time comes.

Remember before launch how many questions were there about end game, warzones, companions? Every time the answer was "we cannot talk about this right now".

They cannot talk about this right now! Give it a rest. If you simply can't play the game without SGRA then, no offense, that's your problem. Cancel your sub. Come back later. But please stop pretending to be disciminated or whatever by "lack of comunication". Not every question is answered by the devs. And yes, some people post the same thing every time in Q&A threads.

Ok, just a quick point...

 

Do you guys even realise that the devs are simply not permitted to give out certain information? A person can be fired from work of fined for telling you anything about this thing. So no matter how demanding you are, you will NOT get any news before time comes.

Remember before launch how many questions were there about end game, warzones, companions? Every time the answer was "we cannot talk about this right now".

They cannot talk about this right now! Give it a rest. If you simply can't play the game without SGRA then, no offense, that's your problem. Cancel your sub. Come back later. But please stop pretending to be disciminated or whatever by "lack of comunication". Not every question is answered by the devs. And yes, some people post the same thing every time in Q&A threads.

I've been reading this thread for a while, mainly because I'm interested in the prospect of SGR in game, and I don't recall anyone saying they are being discriminated against. The general consensus seems to be more that it's frustrating that a feature that has been promised to be incoming has completely vanished from public view and no one is clarifying if it's still going to happen or not.

To use your analogy, warzones and companions were constantly shown off pre-launch. Because of this there never was any doubt about the features being in game, even if Bioware were tight lipped about specific detials. But with SGRs there has only been one announcement, and when people ask if it's a feature still being worked on they recieve nothing but silence. It's nowhere near confirmation that they are no longer working on it. But it's understandable why some people who are invested in the idea of SGRs are worried they've been silently scrapped.

I've been reading this thread for a while, mainly because I'm interested in the prospect of SGR in game, and I don't recall anyone saying they are being discriminated against. The general consensus seems to be more that it's frustrating that a feature that has been promised to be incoming has completely vanished from public view and no one is clarifying if it's still going to happen or not.

 

To use your analogy, warzones and companions were constantly shown off pre-launch. Because of this there never was any doubt about the features being in game, even if Bioware were tight lipped about specific detials. But with SGRs there has only been one announcement, and when people ask if it's a feature still being worked on they recieve nothing but silence. It's nowhere near confirmation that they are no longer working on it. But it's understandable why some people who are invested in the idea of SGRs are worried they've been silently scrapped.

Well said indeed.

Ok, just a quick point...

 

Do you guys even realise that the devs are simply not permitted to give out certain information? A person can be fired from work of fined for telling you anything about this thing. So no matter how demanding you are, you will NOT get any news before time comes.

Remember before launch how many questions were there about end game, warzones, companions? Every time the answer was "we cannot talk about this right now".

They cannot talk about this right now! Give it a rest. If you simply can't play the game without SGRA then, no offense, that's your problem. Cancel your sub. Come back later. But please stop pretending to be disciminated or whatever by "lack of comunication". Not every question is answered by the devs. And yes, some people post the same thing every time in Q&A threads.

Yes, games are developed under a non-disclosure agreement signed by the writers. However, the game company can authorize the release of information at its discretion. That is how we got things like sneak-peeks in the developer blogs, and how they are able to answer questions in the Q&A thread.

Yes, we ask every week. More asked in the second week than the first, and more asked this week than last. And we mean to continue to. I am sorry if that is upsetting to you, but if this content is of no concern to you one way or the other, why are you posting here and not in a thread about something you care about?

We have three threads in which to discuss these topics. This one, one in the Suggestion Box to talk about possible same-gender content beyond the limited scope of companion characters, and the Q&A thread where our input is limited to asking for an update on the status of this content.

If, in fact, it is a non-disclosure agreement that prevents them from discussing it, then they can tell us that. They haven't. The last word - in an interview in another venue - was that they stand by the September Announcement with no further comment.

We would very much like further comment. Invited to ask the Dev Team what we want to know, we have asked. There is no call for you or anyone else to harrass us on account of that. No one is coming into your threads and telling you to stop talking about it. Kindly return the courtesy.

{...} I received this game as a belated Christmas present from my ex and her boyfriend {...}

Ha! I thought I was the only one that had this kind of relationship with their ex; my ex and her new fiance just gave me a bunch of Red Dwarf DVDs!

What ruined Anders for me was turning him into an angsty emo git.

I played females in the Dragon Age games, so I never thought Anders flirtation was strange. However, THIS was my problem with Anders; I don't care about his orientation, but he's a lot less fun in Dragon Age 2 than in Dragon Age: Awakenings. For the most part, I don't get why people disliked Dragon Age 2 so much, but this was one of only two complaints I can currently think of with that particular game.

Side Note: If someone can please explain to me the general hatred toward Dragon Age 2, can you please send me a PM explaining the issues? I hardly think all the hate I see can be because of re-used maps and Anders being a whiner. Thanks!

Now, to the main meat of the topic; the "anti-spammers".

I know my moods have swung on this topic, the gamut from optimistic to pessimistic. Like anybody who wants to know what's being done about a game feature, I just want to know more. I don't feel "discriminated" against, and this isn't a game-breaker for me (in fact, I can't think of a single "game-breaking" issue in SWtOR, despite all the rants to the contrary). I just think it's only fair that they disseminate SOME information.

Sure, the Devs may not be allowed to say anything. In fact, I'm almost positive that's why they haven't. My hope is that the one in charge of what's "allowed" to be said realizes that this is something people need to hear about.

If they scrap same-sex relationships entirely (which I highly doubt), I wouldn't quit or even cause a forum ruckus. I'll be sad that I'll never experience the love of Vette, Mako and Nadia, but I'll just go about their companion quests that have been piling up and maybe throw my lot in with... well, none of the male companions actually seem that interesting to me, so far. I'll just not do any romance subplots.

But this is holding up a bunch of companion quests I could be doing, otherwise, right now; just like Legacy is holding me up on making alts in case I may some day be able to play a Togruta. I'm not demanding things be handled in any particular way; I just want to know how and when they WILL be handled.

To use your analogy, warzones and companions were constantly shown off pre-launch. Because of this there never was any doubt about the features being in game, even if Bioware were tight lipped about specific detials. But with SGRs there has only been one announcement, and when people ask if it's a feature still being worked on they recieve nothing but silence. It's nowhere near confirmation that they are no longer working on it. But it's understandable why some people who are invested in the idea of SGRs are worried they've been silently scrapped.

It's understandable, but some poeple here are overly worried and acting like BioWare is "ignoring" them as if they hate them. And asking outside help? Really?

The devs said those will be in game. That is a big enough change to their original plans.

Side Note: If someone can please explain to me the general hatred toward Dragon Age 2, can you please send me a PM explaining the issues? I hardly think all the hate I see can be because of re-used maps and Anders being a whiner. Thanks!

I don't get it either. I really love the game. I hate Anders but I think that's just a reasonable reaction to the character. Either way, reasonable or not, it was my reaction.

Now, to the main meat of the topic; the "anti-spammers".

Sure, the Devs may not be allowed to say anything. In fact, I'm almost positive that's why they haven't. My hope is that the one in charge of what's "allowed" to be said realizes that this is something people need to hear about.

I wonder if there's some kind of developer dispute that's stopping them from developing it - disagreements as to how to implement it, or something.

If they scrap same-sex relationships entirely (which I highly doubt), I wouldn't quit or even cause a forum ruckus. I'll be sad that I'll never experience the love of Vette, Mako and Nadia, but I'll just go about their companion quests that have been piling up and maybe throw my lot in with... well, none of the male companions actually seem that interesting to me, so far. I'll just not do any romance subplots.

If I quit TOR it'll be because I'm no longer having fun. No other reason. No SGRAs will lower the fun-o-meter somewhat but it won't make it go right through the floor - IF we know they're not coming.

That's the thing that bugs me the most - no information, no updates, nothing.

Now, Bioware never promised us updates, so I don't think they've broken any promises or anything. But it's highly inefficient, frustrating and disappointing to try and promote constructive discussion about this implementation when we don't know, for example, which conceptual paths are dead-ends because the dev team already has a reason for not implementing that concept.

For example, if they've already decided not to include SGRA content for existing characters, it doesn't matter how much we discuss it. As a result we're likely to waste a HECK of a lot of time discussing the matter when we could be talking about something else and giving suggestions that are actually constructive.

Have they promised updates? No. But if they want us to provide meaningful feedback and suggestions we need some direction, whether it was promised us or not.

I played females in the Dragon Age games, so I never thought Anders flirtation was strange. However, THIS was my problem with Anders; I don't care about his orientation, but he's a lot less fun in Dragon Age 2 than in Dragon Age: Awakenings. For the most part, I don't get why people disliked Dragon Age 2 so much, but this was one of only two complaints I can currently think of with that particular game.

 

Side Note: If someone can please explain to me the general hatred toward Dragon Age 2, can you please send me a PM explaining the issues? I hardly think all the hate I see can be because of re-used maps and Anders being a whiner. Thanks!

Yup, they pretty much ruined Anders. As for the hate towards the game, it feels very unfinished and shallow. Recycled, relatively low-quality zones from 2005, lack of the "big world" feeling, even more pronounced "story railroad" feeling. I simply don't feel as much freedom as I did in BG games, in Fallout, even in Dragon Age I and both Mass Effects.

Although, DAII DLC was solid, I have to give them that.

And if it actually gets answered this friday, I'll post a drawing of Blizz with puppies and kittens.

If it doesn't get answered, can you do a picture of Blizz with huuuge sad anime eyes? If that won't pull at the heart-strings then nothing will

Anyhoo, still on my smuggler, came across a scene last night that could/will pose problems for implementation.

In that scene, how could things be made to work? By allowing the pc to flirt with either npc and thus setting the flag for the rest of the scene to play out?

That would take some work, no doubt, or perhaps leave it as it is? I don't know if the encounter would have led anywhere had my Captain been into men, she isn't so shut him down without a second thought.

If it wasn't meant to lead anywhere, could the scene play out the same only

That scenario would be most amusing - to me at least:cool:

Side-note on the DA2 hate - boiled down to people expecting an Origins clone and continuation of The Warden's story (despite all the advertising and dev discussion while DA2 was being made, selective reading on many a gamers' part) No Morrigan, more colour, a voiced protagonist and a less-than heroic story (which I love. Is nice to not be the saviour of everything for a change), and companions designed for all types of gamers not just of the 'straight, white, male' variety. Sure it has it's shortcomings - re-used maps etc, but as with most Bioware games, the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts - just not the parts some people expected or liked. A lot of players forget the series is called 'Dragon Age' not 'The Grey Warden' - I personally love playing different characters in the same world. Unfortunately there are a lot of gamers out there who can't get their head around the fact that people like diffferent things, as we have all encountered. DA2 is not perfect, but it is one of my favourite games and if nothing else was a brave experiment for bioware

They will be as optional as the current heterosexual romances.

They aren't as optional as you think. You still see the flirt options, even if you don't want to. I want the option to not see the flirt options for "homosexual" characters, and I want the option to NOT have a homosexual companion. If they are going to put that in the game, they need to have that option available.

I really don't see it happening anytime soon though, as this is a licensed product, so they will have to get George Lucas' permission to include something so controversial into the game. This isn't like their own babies Mass Effect or Dragon Age, where they can do whatever they want.

 

I really don't see it happening anytime soon though, as this is a licensed product, so they will have to get George Lucas' permission to include something so controversial into the game. This isn't like their own babies Mass Effect or Dragon Age, where they can do whatever they want.

Bioware must already have George Lucas' permission, since it's been stated that SGRAs WILL be in game. And has been pointed out before, there are already canon homosexual characters in Star Wars Lore - both in the books and the games that SWTOR is based on.

The only real question now is the how and the when.

If they are going to put that in the game, they need to have that option available.

Correction: you want that option to be available. They don't need to do anything. They don't even need to continue the game if they don't want to.

Though, obviously, I hope they do continue the game.

They aren't as optional as you think. You still see the flirt options, even if you don't want to. I want the option to not see the flirt options for "homosexual" characters, and I want the option to NOT have a homosexual companion. If they are going to put that in the game, they need to have that option available.

 

I really don't see it happening anytime soon though, as this is a licensed product, so they will have to get George Lucas' permission to include something so controversial into the game. This isn't like their own babies Mass Effect or Dragon Age, where they can do whatever they want.

Why is a flirt option such a problem? Is it really such an outrage that there is a dialogue choice available that you simply don't click on? And why would it be such a problem to have a character who is the same gender as your toon come onto you? All you would have to do is turn them down, much like you would in real life. I appreciate that you seem to feel SGRs are immoral for some reason, but including an optional route for you to take your character down is not exactly forcing it upon you.

And I think you'll find Lucasfilm has probably already provided some form of permission. Otherwise I don't think Bioware would have ever got away with confirming SGRs as post launch content.

Bioware must already have George Lucas' permission, since it's been stated that SGRAs WILL be in game. And has been pointed out before, there are already canon homosexual characters in Star Wars Lore - both in the books and the games that SWTOR is based on.

 

The only real question now is the how and the when.

Plus, this is game canon (this Wookieepedia article explains the matter quite well). It's flexible compared to other forms of Star Wars canon.

They aren't as optional as you think. You still see the flirt options, even if you don't want to. I want the option to not see the flirt options for "homosexual" characters, and I want the option to NOT have a homosexual companion.

Ah, you're asking for special treatment.

Why is a flirt option such a problem? Is it really such an outrage that there is a dialogue choice available that you simply don't click on? And why would it be such a problem to have a character who is the same gender as your toon come onto you? All you would have to do is turn them down, much like you would in real life. I appreciate that you seem to feel SGRs are immoral for some reason, but including an optional route for you to take your character down is not exactly forcing it upon you.

 

And I think you'll find Lucasfilm has probably already provided some form of permission. Otherwise I don't think Bioware would have ever got away with confirming SGRs as post launch content.

The very reason they steer clear of real-life religions and references that might offend their followers.

Like I said before, tolerance is in compromise, and in mutual respect. If (when) SGRAs are implemented, they'd better be implemented in a way that works for both sides of the discussion.

The very reason they steer clear of real-life religions and references that might offend their followers.

 

Like I said before, tolerance is in compromise, and in mutual respect. If (when) SGRAs are implemented, they'd better be implemented in a way that works for both sides of the discussion.

I would have thought the lack of references to religion would have had more to do with the fact that the game is based a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. You wouldn't be able to fit religion into that setting.

Mass Effect proves that Bioware are willing to touch upon religion if the setting permits it. Legion is named after a quote from the bible, and Ashley has a discussion with Shepard about her religious beliefs.

In all honesty, the ones most complaining about homosexual relations are single males wanting lesbian encounters in game. I am most certain that this has been pointed out already considering previous threads have been filled to capacity while this one is well over 50 pages (500 posts). I could really care less as a monogamous relationship is the healthiest it is not really what is desired. This is one of very few games that even begins to allow any PC to NPC relationship building.

I did catch one post where someone stated that (and this is not a direct quote but pretty close to what was said in summary) 'perhaps a player chose the wrong sex at character creation'..... Seriously? Delete and remake if that's the case. Leveling is not that hard anymore. Back in 99 when i started playing EQ it would take a month of 8 hour days to get to 30 ish. In this and many others you can be max level and fully raid/op geared in barely a week of dedicated playing. Lets not make excuses for this. There are children playing and homosexuality in action is a choice regardless if the attraction is biological. Our children do not necessarily need to be exposed to everything, and this is something they should decide on their own.

Please make relationship encounters switchable in the very least within the parental controls section of preferences.

They aren't as optional as you think. You still see the flirt options, even if you don't want to. I want the option to not see the flirt options for "homosexual" characters, and I want the option to NOT have a homosexual companion. If they are going to put that in the game, they need to have that option available.

 

I really don't see it happening anytime soon though, as this is a licensed product, so they will have to get George Lucas' permission to include something so controversial into the game. This isn't like their own babies Mass Effect or Dragon Age, where they can do whatever they want.

Let me get this straight (no wait or do I get this queer?) you want a version of the game specially filtered so as not to offend your delicate sensibilities? I could understand general prudishness and not wanting any flirt options at all but you are quite clear its not hetero romance you have a problem with but the inclusion same sex romantic encounters. It seems that not selecting a [flirt] option is not good enough but you want to be shielded from the very existence of same sex romance.

This is 2012, there is nothing "controversial" as you phrase it about homosexuality. I don't have to be closeted about my own orientation, surely our companions who after all are fictional characters in a Galaxy Far Far Away don't need to be forced in a closet on a case by case by way of an optional feature.

I suspect that for the majority of players same sex romance is a non-issue. What is an issue is the lack of communication from Bioware for six months on what we can expect.

Nobody ever claimed they wanted same-sex relationships to be more visible than opposite-sex relationships. Only as visible. Most (possibly all) of which is in the privacy of a ship or cantina anyway.

That's why a "sex-switch" is required. A small dropbox in your Preferences with "Heterosexual, Bisexual, Homosexual and Asexual" settings. That's it.

In all honesty, the ones most complaining about homosexual relations are single males wanting lesbian encounters in game.

Even if you had any data to back this up it's still irrelevant. A single male wanting to pursue a female same sex relationship is no less legitimate than a married female wanting to pursue a heterosexual relationship, nor a homosexual person of whatever marital status wantign to pursue a homosexual relationship.

Some players want it. Who the players are isn't actually relevant.