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Jedi Sentinel Feedback

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JackieKo's Avatar


JackieKo
07.28.2021 , 03:01 PM | #1 Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread. Next  
With our next phase of PTS now live, you can help test the Combat Style for the Jedi Sentinel.

Please answer the following questions:
  • What abilities make the Sentinel unique to you?
  • Do these ability paths feel effective against enemies?
  • If you have feedback on the different disciplines and loadouts, please note your feedback accordingly so we can track it.
Feel free to answer in as much detail as possible to help us understand your thought process and line of thinking.

Thank you!
Jackie | Community Manager
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koshouu's Avatar


koshouu
07.28.2021 , 04:28 PM | #2
Today I tried Loadout A for the Watchman Sentinel. Keep in mind I didn't play around with it too much & just went around killing things on Onderon, since this is (as the devs have said repeatedly) and early look at the changes, so I'm not trying to go too in-depth.

Force Camouflage & Transcendence were missing, but I don't think this was intentional, just pointing it out.

Aside from the lack of Force Clarity, it felt about the same as it usually does. Again, I can't speak to raid performance and damage output, but the spirit of the class feels intact. I'm frustrated that the utility to remove the Centering requirement on Transcendence seems not to have made it into the Combat Style. Transcendence is an extremely handy mobility ability to have in raids, & the timing of Centering doesn't always work out (though I guess that adds to the challenge, doesn't it?) However, I'm very interested in the modifications to the Force Camouflage ability to include the cleanse and an immunity to controlling effects (is that new, or am I a *******? lol). Nice to not have to choose between a self-cleanse and another utility.

All the Sentinel defensives seem to be intact as well, which is a really good sign. It feels like you guys were hearing us RE: the Guardian, so I appreciate that a lot.

Though speaking of Force Clarity vs. Inspiration, I'm kinda worried about that tbh. As of right now, the BiS set bonus for all Sentinels in PVE content is Descent of the Fearless, so that choice... isn't really a choice. Unless there's plans for new set bonuses that would account for not having Force Clarity, I really think that choice needs some second thought. Inspiration is one of the best raid buffs in the game, and lends a lot to the Sentinel's group utility, so ideally I wouldn't want to have to choose between that and anything at all, but if I had to choose, I wouldn't want to choose between it and Force Clarity.

Overall, I think us Sentinels got dealt a better hand than Guardians (sorry Guardians...), and I hope you'll continue incorporating this feedback into your implementation of the other classes. This has given me a bit more hope for 7.0, rather than dread.

EDIT: gah, I misunderstood the forum post, disregard this 🤦*♂️

metwars's Avatar


metwars
07.28.2021 , 04:30 PM | #3
So I mostly just played the watchman tree right now, and overall, its feels pretty good. The A route feels almost exactly like it did in the live server and some of the new passives that I have are really nice. the damage still feels good and for the most part the rotation still feels fun, though the lose of force clarity is a bit of a downer, but I will get to that later. With B route, having force lash is great and it does change how the rotation works, but in a interesting way. honestly, just looking at the tree, I get really excited about the different combinations I can use with the passives once we get the choice of customizations. lots of different things we can play with. Also I don't think the different load outs are working correctly. No matter which build I choose, I always get inspiration and guarded by the force, and never receive force clarity.

Having said that, there are some options that do not make sense to me. Making force camo and all of the level 70 abilities a choice is not a good move. each one of those abilities are very needed in a lot of fights. having a threat drop should always be required because you never know when you will pull of someone when you don't mean to. This happens a lot more often in fp's than you would think. inspiration and force clarity are also abilities that I use in most major battles and just taking them away doesn't really changed how I think about a rotation, it really only takes away utilites to use, and in a lot of way make marauders weaker.

honestly from what I gather here, I think the mixing and matching of the passives is a great idea and there is a lot of cool concepts here that could be played with. But once you start making us chose the abilities we have to use, it doesn't become fun anymore. Please, don't not make us chose are abilities like this.

khamseen_air's Avatar


khamseen_air
07.28.2021 , 04:39 PM | #4
Not sure why you ask for feedback and then delete the post I just read before replying. It was accurate.

I've mained concentration sentinel/fury marauder for years now and you've totally destroyed it. It doesn't feel or perform anything like it currently does.

Ignoring the fact that for some reason you grant Zealous leap three times (level 20/25/30).

You remove the ability to use Transcendence without having to use up centering which makes the ability pretty much pointless because building centering to use Zen is crucial to the rotation of the class. I can't count how many ops runs have only been successful because of Transcendence being popped at the right moment.

Making me choose between the ability to gain focus while dealing damage or having force camouflage means I'm never going to have force camouflage now because again gaining focus from attacking is essential to the rotations. So we're just losing that ability for any pve build.

Level 50 having to pick between passive AOE defence (on a class which is well known to be a glass cannon), extra force leap charge (which is now pretty much essential because of the transcendence nerf), or gaining focus when crowd controlled is just insane.

Level 60 having to pick between Zealous Ward and Trailblazer... what? Why are you doing this? Sentinels have so little AoE damage already even with Trailblazer and as mentioned above we're already glass cannons.

Level 70... I don't even know how to express how insane it is that I have to pick between my best defensive ability (the whopping 4 seconds of 99% damage reduction every 3 minutes)... my raid buff... or the class ability added from 6.0 Force Clarity which is needed for the current BiS armour for all Sentinels.

I'm sorry, but I truly don't know why you're doing any of this. You keep telling us that you can't increase the level of OPs or FPs from 70-75 because it would be too complex to rework them all but here you are totally destroying our classes and apparently you're somehow going to be able to rework all the content in the game right now to handle these changes?

I'm really unsure how you can't see that what you're doing is going to make the 10th anniversary the end of the game.

koshouu's Avatar


koshouu
07.28.2021 , 04:44 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by koshouu View Post
Today I tried Loadout A for the Watchman Sentinel. Keep in mind I didn't play around with it too much & just went around killing things on Onderon, since this is (as the devs have said repeatedly) and early look at the changes, so I'm not trying to go too in-depth.

Force Camouflage & Transcendence were missing, but I don't think this was intentional, just pointing it out.

Aside from the lack of Force Clarity, it felt about the same as it usually does. Again, I can't speak to raid performance and damage output, but the spirit of the class feels intact. I'm frustrated that the utility to remove the Centering requirement on Transcendence seems not to have made it into the Combat Style. Transcendence is an extremely handy mobility ability to have in raids, & the timing of Centering doesn't always work out (though I guess that adds to the challenge, doesn't it?) However, I'm very interested in the modifications to the Force Camouflage ability to include the cleanse and an immunity to controlling effects (is that new, or am I a *******? lol). Nice to not have to choose between a self-cleanse and another utility.

All the Sentinel defensives seem to be intact as well, which is a really good sign. It feels like you guys were hearing us RE: the Guardian, so I appreciate that a lot.

Though speaking of Force Clarity vs. Inspiration, I'm kinda worried about that tbh. As of right now, the BiS set bonus for all Sentinels in PVE content is Descent of the Fearless, so that choice... isn't really a choice. Unless there's plans for new set bonuses that would account for not having Force Clarity, I really think that choice needs some second thought. Inspiration is one of the best raid buffs in the game, and lends a lot to the Sentinel's group utility, so ideally I wouldn't want to have to choose between that and anything at all, but if I had to choose, I wouldn't want to choose between it and Force Clarity.

Overall, I think us Sentinels got dealt a better hand than Guardians (sorry Guardians...), and I hope you'll continue incorporating this feedback into your implementation of the other classes. This has given me a bit more hope for 7.0, rather than dread.

EDIT: gah, I misunderstood the forum post
What I said about the spirit of the class feeling intact & defensives not being messed with still stands, however I was wrong about Transcendence and Force Camouflage not being choices, because they are. While I would prefer not to have to choose between these or the passives at all, it's not... too terrible in my opinion? It's still much better than the Guardian where you had to choose between... what was it, Saber Reflect & Enure?

Transcendence is a pretty important mobility ability, and most players are going to choose that over the passives. But the passives for this choice, to me, sound more useful for PVP than PVE, and I don't really use Transcendence all that much in PVP (then again, I don't really PVP on my Sentinel), so I wouldn't take those passives in PVE anyway.

The Force Camouflage choices are a bit trickier, because I really like having my own cleanse & a threat drop, but I'd also like to play around with those passives that modify Zen. If I'm understanding correctly, Burning Center would increase the uptime on Zen, which sounds like very good news for Watchman damage output. But Force Camouflage is not Required for every single fight, and if I'm correct in thinking we can change these choices like how we can change utilities right now, then I don't... hate it ? I can just take Burning Center when I don't need Force Camouflage.

So still, not bad. Would prefer if Force Camo and Transcendence weren't choices, but as it is currently, it's definitely not a dealbreaker for me.

matthaxian's Avatar


matthaxian
07.28.2021 , 04:55 PM | #6
Wow this is sad. You took all the feedback from the guardian pass and doubled down on what everyone hated about it with sentinel, which is sad because some of these new passives would be very nice IF we didnt have to choose them over losing abilities.

To recap, on all 3 specs:
Transendence must be specced into and costs centering.
You must choose at 70 which 2 defense/mobility abilities you have been using forever to lose.
Force clarity, which was just given last expansion and our set bonus is built around, must be specced into at the expense of perhaps the best new passives.

Keith, you allegedly are a longtime hardcore player. Why are you allowing this to happen to our beloved characters?
As devs, can you not foresee all the confusion and infighting this is going to cause among players about being properly specced for the content you are attempting? In 6.0 you may not have picked the right utility, in 7.0 you may not even HAVE the ability you need. Good luck to new players in PVP , they are going to die so fast+ its going to be worse for them than when expertise was still a thing.

The defensive response after the guardian changes and now this make it pretty clear you are not budging one inch on gutting the classes. This is going to be a bigger fiasco than galactic command. If you don't like the comments now from the tiny dedicated slice of the playerbase even aware these changes are coming, wait until they hit live and all the salty teenagers find out how bad their toons got neutered. We're trying to do you a service, we want this game to succeed as much as you do.

This is so bad I don't even want the expansion or level cap increase.

matthaxian's Avatar


matthaxian
07.28.2021 , 05:09 PM | #7
Honest question for the devs, what is your target number for abilities?
Do you want everything to fit on 3 quickbars?
If you gave us some guidelines we would love to help you out with what our priorities are.

JackieKo's Avatar


JackieKo
07.28.2021 , 05:30 PM | #8 Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread. Next  
Quote: Originally Posted by khamseen_air View Post
Not sure why you ask for feedback and then delete the post I just read before replying. It was accurate.

I kept record of the original feedback of the post, but for the post in general, feedback can be provided without wishing harm to the dev team. I understand that changes like these can cause emotional responses, but if a post violates the guidelines regardless if the offending content was against another forum user or a staff member, it will be removed.

That said, thank you for providing your own feedback in this thread.
Jackie | Community Manager
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FlameYOL's Avatar


FlameYOL
07.28.2021 , 05:38 PM | #9
Overall my core rotation is still the same, the only thing missing is Force Clarity. I do miss some of the mobility the class had, I recommend making either transcende or blade blitz as baseline as having only Zealous Leap is not enough in my opinion. Also, since we are meant to choose the upgraded version of the abilities I believe transcendence should not require focus and just have a cooldown, perhaps it can be reduced if we're meant to be choosing between it and Blade Blitz. I also think Force Camouflage should remain baseline, perhaps the upgrades can be relegated to a passive in level 70. A threat drop is needed, unless you'll be buffing the amount of threat and lowering cooldowns of taunts in order to make up for it. I personally would love the latter. Also what are these new abilities we'll be granted?
A man can have anything...If he's willing to sacrifice everything

koshouu's Avatar


koshouu
07.28.2021 , 05:50 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by FlameYOL View Post
I also think Force Camouflage should remain baseline, perhaps the upgrades can be relegated to a passive in level 70. A threat drop is needed, unless you'll be buffing the amount of threat and lowering cooldowns of taunts in order to make up for it. I personally would love the latter. Also what are these new abilities we'll be granted?
Oooohhh, lowering cooldowns on taunts would be a good way to alleviate the need for threat drops. When I raid with my guild, I've never really had issues regarding pulling aggro off the tank, but I don't play a burst class (and our tanks are quite talented), so usually when I use Force Camouflage, it's for the cleanse or as a defensive, but I understand the need for it for the burst Sentinel specs. iirc taunts weren't available when Guardian launched on PTS, maybe that's why?