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Ability pruning will lead to subscribers pruning

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Public Test Server
Ability pruning will lead to subscribers pruning

CainNiner's Avatar


CainNiner
08.23.2021 , 10:43 AM | #61
Long time ago when i first started i remember levelling up took some time and combat was genuinely challenging. At least that's what i remember, a few years later i come back and i level like lightning and combat was no issue.
I didn't mind as i like games more for their stories. But combat is also an integral part, it's what takes you from story content to story content.

I always use all of my abilities except for status abilities that break on damage. I don't care about the meta or an ability being useless. I just press buttons, it's a simple state of mind that i think some people, mostly casual players can relate to, and the amount of abilities in the game is good as is. I just simply read the tooltips and decide on the best way to apply all of my abilities in snyc. This takes no time at all and any new player can take the time to do the same. Usually my first ability bar is full with my main combat abilities and then separating the rest based on whether or not they are situational or passive abilities on my other bars. I got so used to this that all my toons abilities are ordered the same way, and i don't know if this gets changed that i would be comfortable with it.

The game is also so freaking easy, i seriously doubt anyone who complains about it being hard, has played any game other than maybe minecraft. The learning curve only starts after you have reached lvl75. After 75 you have to think about item rating, gear sets, tacticals and these are just the things i, a pretty casual player knows about, and even then you don't have to bother with them if you don't plan on doing harder stuff. But even before i knew of all these i didn't find anything that was too challenging. Heroics, easy with a healing comp. Flashpoints again, easy with a healing comp, a comp pretty much solves every basic story challenge the game could throw at you, and if someone wants to go deeper into the game content like veteran and master modes, then obviously they will have to do some research, and use the gear sets, tacticals etc. You can't take that out of a game no matter how much you dumb it down. But if you dumb it down too much for the new players that you hope will keep playing the game, then you screw over people that are already invested in the game as it currently is.

I came back about a few months ago and finished the last of my class stories and wanted to become a "veteran" player by learning all that i can, getting as much achievements as possible and just get better at the game. I was planning on saving up my money and kitting out all 16 of my characters with stuff from the CM. That might seem dumb to some, but i just wanted to have fun. It seems though that this game has truly been going downhill, i heard some people saying this in game but i didn't believe them. After reading through this thread, I'm questioning whether or not i should keep putting my energy (and money) into this game. Mainly because i don't know how much I'm gonna be interested in it after the update rolls out, but also because if the update truly sucks, and a lot of people leave, then it's gonna be a matter of time until bioware decides maintaining support for the game isn't worth it anymore.

This is just the simple take of a casual player though. Hopefully the stuff i said makes sense.
Edit: I did some detective work and i found my old account, it was made in 2013. Wow. I wish i had set up a security key. In this case someone could fact check me about how the levelling and other stuff was in 2013.
Tomb of Freedon Nadd server. This server doesn't even exist anymore.

-sakaa-'s Avatar


-sakaa-
08.23.2021 , 02:18 PM | #62
I am less concerned about ability pruning then I am about how affective what is there. On one hand there needs to be a challenging environment for the elite gamers but there also needs to be space for those like me who just play to blow off steam. I want to see the trainers active so I can level a character and see what the new way looks like


long time casual player

timovdt's Avatar


timovdt
08.24.2021 , 10:27 PM | #63
Quote: Originally Posted by Nee-Elder View Post
Can't believe i haven't mentioned this yet (and, as far as i've noticed , no one else has mentioned this yet either) ....

What about HEALERS?!?!

I have a Guardian alt, but my main has always been a healer (Sage) since 2011 , never respec'd (except when the game forced me to upon 1st login after new update----see 4.0 & such) And , particularly in PVP & NiM ops (or other Level 75+ content) , every single 'heal' skill on my toolbar is useful & significant.

Again , we still don't know the extent of what exactly BioWare is up to with this whole LotS 7.0 update, so i'm def. NOT one of those "game is gonna die" types ( *especially since people have been claiming "SWTOR will die" since 2012 lol ) .

I'm just a bit skeptical and, as a healer main, i'm very very curious/confused as to how the heck BioWare is gonna handle all this. I don't have the Livestream link handy at the moment but does anyone recall whether or not BioWare mentioned the effect 7.0 might have on HEALERS specifically ?

p.s. i hope they "prune" god-bubble so i won't be tempted to use it in Ranked PVP anymore
Considering there history with sorc over the last few years its prolly goodbye bubble phasewalk mental alacrity/polarity shift bye instant heal bye instant tornado and a flast 50% output nerf XD

JoeKickarse's Avatar


JoeKickarse
08.25.2021 , 12:51 AM | #64
Quote: Originally Posted by CainNiner View Post
Long time ago when i first started i remember levelling up took some time and combat was genuinely challenging. At least that's what i remember, a few years later i come back and i level like lightning and combat was no issue.
I didn't mind as i like games more for their stories. But combat is also an integral part, it's what takes you from story content to story content.
This was the first mmo I went hardcore at back at launch in 2011. Its like my highschool sweetheart, we've since moved on due to differences of opinions and not fulfilling desires but I always get a fire in me thinking about it. Yeah back before the Dark vs Light event players actually had to visit and do nearly every quest on every planet to level up. It was one of the best features of the game actually because this games main story is an amazing product. But now you can do one class quest and hit level 30 before you have time to think.
I stopped playing full time back in 2015 ish, but I occasionally come back to see how things are going. And the very best thing about this game in my opinion, is the combat and how each of the classes play. Hands down some of the best mmo combat in the business, I've tried nearly all of them too. But when they start making big shifts in how the class combat behaved I got a real bad feeling in my gut. The removal of iconic abilities was truly heartbreaking, flamethrower on bounty hunter became a flame fart, master strike/ravage became a 1 GCD spasm attack, no more Death from Above on my favorite class PT? It was absurd. I just can't fathom the effects more pruning will have on the state of the game. I honestly believe this game will lose one of its greatest assets, its combat.

Galnar_Kyja's Avatar


Galnar_Kyja
08.25.2021 , 03:29 AM | #65
Quote: Originally Posted by captainbladejk View Post
You keep bringing up these mythical new players having all these issues, yet you've refused to tell us who they are. You also say "the amount of buttons the game can get away with without being a turn off to newer players" is what we should go with, yet you refuse to quantify what that is. Are we talking 3 buttons? What about 5? Maybe 7? Or what about 10? Do we stop at 12, or do we go to 15?
Final Fantasy got every class down to about 12 buttons for DPS 15 for Tank 15 for Healer... Never lost players. In fact it gained players as it got simpler. Stormblood was the pruning of abilities and everyone loved it...

demotivator's Avatar


demotivator
08.25.2021 , 04:40 AM | #66
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
(...) Then they go on holidays for 6 weeks like they always do and we won’t get any fixes till the end of February 2022.

That’s nearly 3 months of time where the game will have a bunch of possibly game breaking bugs and unbalanced combat issues.
That is what drives players from the game and makes them unsub.
The end of the year expansions/updates have been a constant issue, with the team understandably going for holidays for weeks. I don't understand why they can't delay them to spring.

For the record, the game was released in December 2011 but they had a team on deck to respond to the launch issues (clearly it is suicidal to launch an MMO with your devs on vacation, why can't the same logic be applied to updates?). The first expansion, Rise of the Hutt Cartel, was released in April 2013: that's how you do things.

Then the hellish spiral started, Shadow of Revan launched in December 2014 and all the subsequent expansions/updates followed the same pattern.

TL;DR Don't release a major update when your team is gone for the Holiday season.
Randomizing your forums.

Elssha's Avatar


Elssha
08.25.2021 , 05:33 AM | #67
Quote: Originally Posted by Galnar_Kyja View Post
Final Fantasy got every class down to about 12 buttons for DPS 15 for Tank 15 for Healer... Never lost players. In fact it gained players as it got simpler. Stormblood was the pruning of abilities and everyone loved it...
Strange... seeing as a screenshot of my PLD from ShB has over 30 in-combat moves, NOT counting stim/adrenal/med pack equivalents OR out-of-combat things like mounts, quick travel, or even the rocket-boost equivalent, which IIRC is usable in combat (it's been a while).

I also remember people discussing how much more fun they had on AST before the cards were dumbed down to 2 variations with different names instead of a bunch of cards... and I only played the game casually.

Galbsadi's Avatar


Galbsadi
08.25.2021 , 06:09 AM | #68
Quote: Originally Posted by Elssha View Post
Strange... seeing as a screenshot of my PLD from ShB has over 30 in-combat moves, NOT counting stim/adrenal/med pack equivalents OR out-of-combat things like mounts, quick travel, or even the rocket-boost equivalent, which IIRC is usable in combat (it's been a while).

I also remember people discussing how much more fun they had on AST before the cards were dumbed down to 2 variations with different names instead of a bunch of cards... and I only played the game casually.
Yeah, I remember similar, and I see way more Gunbreakers out there than Warriors (Warriors have way fewer buttons to press, both are tanks).
Peace is a lie.

Kaos_KidSWTOR's Avatar


Kaos_KidSWTOR
08.25.2021 , 08:39 AM | #69
Quote: Originally Posted by xordevoreaux View Post
I agree with that statement. But 60 buttons on 6 bars isn't content.
Except... SW:ToR is far from 60 buttons on 6 bars. Every class's main rotation is around 6 to 8 buttons. Tanks have more buttons because of Defensive Cooldowns and Taunts. And Healers have more buttons because well, there's more heal buttons than most DPS have in their rotation.

I've always used a single Ability bar for my entire rotation. That's only 12 buttons. And I've never felt that I need more than 4 Ability Bars in my almost 6 years of playing SW:ToR.

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
08.25.2021 , 08:31 PM | #70
Quote: Originally Posted by demotivator View Post
The end of the year expansions/updates have been a constant issue, with the team understandably going for holidays for weeks. I don't understand why they can't delay them to spring.

For the record, the game was released in December 2011 but they had a team on deck to respond to the launch issues (clearly it is suicidal to launch an MMO with your devs on vacation, why can't the same logic be applied to updates?). The first expansion, Rise of the Hutt Cartel, was released in April 2013: that's how you do things.

Then the hellish spiral started, Shadow of Revan launched in December 2014 and all the subsequent expansions/updates followed the same pattern.

TL;DR Don't release a major update when your team is gone for the Holiday season.
Yeah, that is my main concern here with such radical changes being made. I’ve seen how this plays out each expansion.

1. The expansion lands 2 weeks before Xmas and we have an excited influx of players but the games got problems (bugs or poor balance).
2. The devs go completely silent or rush out a bug fix that causes more problems than it fixes. And they go radio silent till they go on holidays.
3. The holidays arrive and we get even more potential new players, but the old players are pissed off and tell the new players complaining about bugs to get use to it because this is how BioWare operate.
4. Four to six weeks go by with no communication from BioWare about the problems and those new people have all started to leave the game along with many old players who’ve reached the threshold with BioWare.
5. Devs come back to work and say they are working on fixes but give no date. Four more weeks go by and more people leave.
6. Date of the first patch is announced and it’s second last week of February, but ends up being delayed till last week of Feb or first week early March.
7. Patch lands and the fixes don’t work or they break it worse. Which causes more players to leave in frustration.
8. BioWare go silent again for cause of the up roar and it’s April till we here from them about an update in May.
9. By now, 99% of the new people that tried the game in December have left and told everyone what a terrible experience it was.
10. We now have less players than we did before the expansion

Sadly, this is nearly exactly what happens each time. That’s why they shouldn’t release expansions or major content updates in November or December.
It is then usually exacerbated by lack of communication from BioWare. Hopefully with Jackie on board now that won’t happen. Because the lack of communication when this happens is a major factor or why people leave in frustration.