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need to post a official sticky about this or a post

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
need to post a official sticky about this or a post

Telephian's Avatar


Telephian
03.13.2012 , 12:54 AM | #111
Old Frontiers DAoC with guard/spawn modification to adjust for population imbalance. I'm not sure what else needs to be said.

Culdor's Avatar


Culdor
03.13.2012 , 02:22 PM | #112
When EA/Mythic removed fortresses from zone progression in WAR, they told us they had great 'plans'. What we got was an empty building everyone rode past for 2+ years.

While I appreciate the need to go back to the drawing board, I for one think leaving it in place as is, is better then not having any world PvP options at all, specially if EA/Bioware plans to take 2+ years with their plans.

Mhorham's Avatar


Mhorham
03.13.2012 , 07:46 PM | #113
Quote: Originally Posted by StephenReid View Post
Ilum is being deprecated in Game Update 1.2. The Open World PvP area on Ilum will still be present in 1.2, but rewards previously gained in Ilum will be available in Warzones and that's where we expect the bulk of PvP to take place for now.

As we said during the Guild Summit, the PvP team is 'going back to the drawing board' with Ilum. That means they want to rework it to be fun and engaging. We accept there are issues with the current design and want to ensure that what we end up with is enjoyable for PvP fans. We have no ETA on when a redesigned Ilum might be available, but when we do have more news, we'll share it.

The PvP team definitely monitors these Forums and would love to see constructive feedback on Open World PvP and how you feel it could be improved. They have their own ideas, of course, and they've read many of the posts here but more feedback is always welcome.
I really wish we could have a discussion about open world pvp where we knew we were talking about all the contested planets and not just Ilum.

It looks like Merc-coms were intended rewards for open world pvp but what happened there? Why cant we have rewards for battles on Tat, Alderan or other pvp enabled planets? Is there no mechanism for rewarding kills within your lvl bracket to reduce farming of lower lvl players. Was the pvp community just not worth the effort in making a system to reward honorable kills and not pharming lowbies? Or will the game just not support that lvl of activity on the contested planets?

mayjin's Avatar


mayjin
03.13.2012 , 08:03 PM | #114
Quote: Originally Posted by hargrave View Post
The majority of people myself included up to the guild summit believe ilum and open world pvp is being thrown out the window permanently. Based on what i heard at the guild summit and seeing this http://www.theimperialnetwork.com/wp...12/03/ilum.jpg and people still thinking ilum/open world pvp is bieng phased out permanently you really need to make a sticky or at least make it known on here.


Im not sure if youve realized this or are not aware of this bieng peoples view? Either way gabe or someone needs to post and say what was said at the guild summit about ilum.

On a side note like i said i thought open world pvp/ilum was bieng phased out myself until the guild summit. Please let people know this isnt true in the pvp forum with a sticky or post thank you.

Well if the community gets together and does it with some organisation we can have our Ilum battles agen

Pigdaddy's Avatar


Pigdaddy
03.15.2012 , 01:18 AM | #115
Install WoW..

Play "Wintergrasp" PvP-zone

Copy/Paste

Win
EVERYDAY I'M TROLOL'ING
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Absit's Avatar


Absit
03.15.2012 , 01:57 PM | #116
Quote: Originally Posted by StephenReid View Post
[color=#f9d648]...Warzones and that's where we expect the bulk of PvP to take place for now.
Thank you for that information. PvP is officially relegated to the minigames known as warzones. Goodbye SWTOR.
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Sandmahn's Avatar


Sandmahn
03.20.2012 , 01:54 PM | #117
Agree with most of ProfessorWalsh. Here are my additional suggestions/differences with his thoughts:

First, the other faction balancer in DAOC was the 3rd faction. If a server had a faction population imbalance, 2 of the factions would naturally and not via any game mechanism "team up" against the stronger realm until balance was restored. This also keeps every faction wary of the other faction even when they are "teaming up" which helps develop the pvp/fvf/rvr community.

How to create a 3rd faction in this game when it wasn't design in from the beginning? JFC, with all of the talent they assembled, I don't know why they didn't start with 3, but here is my 2 yen's worth...
1) Light/Dark/Grey: For both PvP and PvE servers, your Faction Life as it relates to Opvp/rvr/fvf should start at 50 and it only applies on Illum or whatever implemtnation of open pvp they go with. Each person's faction is determined by their light, dark or neutralness. A player reaching 50 will be assigned a faction based on this characteristic. A character can use daily quests to adjust their alignment but it will take multiple days to 'fix' them obviously. A player with mulitple characters of differing alignment will have a timeout period when switching to an alternate level 50.

2) SWTOR has Reps, Imps, and Mercs but they only implemented 2 factions. Make an expansion that moves all of the merc classes to a 3rd faction. I know this would be a huge upset for some people, so give the masses with guilds set and friends developed a one time choice for the toons that would be moved to the 3rd Merc realm. Obviously there would need to be some class rebalancing here and a few other storyline issues.

Obviously my 2 yen's worth is worth just about that and I don't have to implent any of it so easier said than done. I just really really hope that they get whatever new stuff done before people leave because SWTOR has a good base game to build from.


Quote: Originally Posted by ProfessorWalsh View Post
Okay Stephen, here is my suggestions for improving Ilum.

First I'm going to give a breakdown of what open world PVP is and what are the inherent flaws with it:

Open World PVP is basically when each faction may attack the other.

An open world PVP zone is a zone specifically with incentives to cause that to occur.

Now, there is an inherent flaw in open world PVP in that a numerical faction imbalance has a deep and nasty impact if two groups come to blows, the larger side will always win. If objectives are there to be taken that don't require direct player conflict then the reward has to come from holding it rather than taking it, if there is incentive to take it, but then no incentive to hold it, then people will trade it off.

These are, unfortunately, the two mistakes you made in open world PVP on Ilum. The first build was based around objectives with incentives only being given to taking, rather than holding, the objective. The second build was based around killing enemy players which provided too large of an advantage to the faction with the higher population.

Thus the zone cannot be based around kill numbers but must be based around an objective. This objective must be something that grants a reward for being held that is tangible enough that it lures others into the zone. This objective must also be complicated enough to hold that it isn't simply a numbers game with the overpopulated realm being able to accomplish it.

How do you do this? That is the difficult part of this.

A game known as Dark Age of Camelot managed this by giving each of the three realms a "relic" holding these "relics" each gave a different bonus to the realm (in PVP and PVE) that held it. The relic forts were protected by extremely powerful NPCs, however these NPC's could be weakened by claiming and holding a number of lesser fortresses in the zone. Because the NPCs were so powerful the lower population realm could often defend against superior numbers by either aiding at the main battle or retaking lesser forts while the larger population realm was attacking the relic fort.

This forced the higher population force to leave defenders at the numerous smaller forts in the zone, which lessened the numbers that could hit the relic fort. This served to actually spread their numbers significantly enough that the lesser realm could actually field nearly equal numbers at the relic fort if the enemy spread their numbers to protect the minor forts.

This, in my opinion, is the most elegant solution to the current issue.

In fact we can look to "Return of the Jedi" for a possible scenario:

In Return of the Jedi the Death Star was protected by a shield generator. This shield generator was powerful enough to protect the Death Star from being attacked. So a group had to take out the shield generator to make the Death Star vulnerable.

If we want to keep the battle focused on Ilum I would do something similar.

My Idea:

On the planet of Ilum an ancient Jedi stronghold has been unearthed. It is protected by a very powerful force of ancient Rakatan droids. These droids are powered by a series of six recently discovered Rakatan energy stations. A faction may defeat these droids and claim the stations which weaken the droids at the stronghold.

The stronghold can be seized by either faction by defeating the command droid. The main computer can then be reprogrammed to recognize that faction as "friendlies" and the other faction as "enemies." At that point holding the power stations strengthens the defenses for the currently holding faction.

Inside the stronghold are a number of powerful objects. The first is a series of five special crystal synthesizers. These special crystals degrade quickly however so new crystals must be farmed every 24 hours. These crystals are the best crystals in the game for both PVP and PVE. (These crystals are available in blue, green, red, purple, and white.) These crystals provide a stat bonus of +51 but only last for 24 hours.

On top of that holding this stronghold increases all valor, experience, and credits gained by 15% to all members of the holding faction.

BaneOfKings's Avatar


BaneOfKings
03.20.2012 , 01:56 PM | #118
After much thought, world pvp cannot be made perfect by the developers, or if at all. In wow, world pvp was created by the players, and the gave incentives by the developers later in the form of achievements and such. But people have to realize..... Do you really need a reward to pvp? Or can u just play for fun and skill? I remember on azgalor ( a wow pvp server) many years ago had the best 4 horde guilds ( equiv to empire ) team up, and sacked stormwind, the alliance's Capitol city...... They held the city for 2 days, and then blizzard had to server reset because the alliance couldn't get in!!!!

Did the horde get rewarded for sieging the city? None at all. But it was fun. Bioware, please open Capitol worlds. Or, make a city on each planet and grant rewards to the faction that controls most of them! All of the planets have markers that either say empire, republic, or contested! Why not borrow winter grasp, but use it on each world, slowly implementing them planet by planet and show the war you created!

EternalFinality's Avatar


EternalFinality
03.20.2012 , 01:59 PM | #119
Quote:
It's interesting to see how this thread is divided into 2 categories:

1) Those who played Daoc and know how good open world pvp can be.

2) Those who seem to think pvp is what Warcraft gave them.
Speak for yourself. WoW before battlegrounds had great world PvP. Stranglethorn Vale and outside UBRS were constant hot spots.

TUXs's Avatar


TUXs
03.20.2012 , 02:00 PM | #120
Quote: Originally Posted by stealthdrow View Post
From what I gathered while drinking with Gabe one night of the summit, open world PvP is not being phased out.
Then he better get moving - because he doesn't have the luxury of time. Maybe a sober Gabe would care to comment on this openly?!
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