JackieKo, if you read this, exactly this. This forum needs weekend moderation exactly for this reason. These people, not Trixxie, the ones breaking the forums rules, feel empowered to spend all weekend spamming the boards, naming and shaming, and posting screenshots with guild and character names because there is no weekend moderation. These forums become the wild west because the sheriff takes a powder every Friday.

Fully agree, it's the weekend when the trolls come out, as they know their posts get to stay there, and they can harass, lie, bully, etc. And they know nothing will be done till Monday. Someone needs to go through this thread, and a few others, and clear out all the trolls :/

Today , 04:37 AM | #108

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There is sadly a lot of misinformation in this thread about crafting objectives and conquest. When you see players getting 10mil or more conquest, you assume it's hacking, or cheating, or exploiting, when the reality in most cases is that those players are very dedicated. Each week, I typically earn 10mil or more conquest for my guild, and thats on weeks when i am NOT crafting (war supplies and other things i queue while playing normally can significantly inflate this number).

 

The trick? Play 12+ hrs a day. Honestly, there are just some players putting insane numbers in. We have players in our guild who play 16hrs a day.

 

Of course they are going to pull crazy amounts of conquest in, possibly close to other guilds as a whole, but those guilds dont have a lot of active players farming the highest conquest activities in the most efficient manor they know of.

 

When you put your mind to it, and try week after week to earn as much conquest as you possibly can, you'll learn a bunch of tips and tricks to optimize everything. And if you add crafting, you don't macro it. Honestly. its not queuing stuff up thats hard, its getting the VAST quantity of mats required to craft in sufficient quantity to make a difference. I'll include mat gathering for many hours each week, to save resources for push weeks where i'll burn through them extremely quickly, but im just queuing stuff up as i do heroics and what not.

 

There isn't evidence of macro'ers in this thread, there is evidence of people putting a ridiculous amount of time into this game to help their guild.

// Tarak = Level 50 Commando, Server = Firkrann Crystal

 

The players that have 20m + conquest in these guilds are hardly playing the game, their guilds have under 10 players off peak about 65 at peak times, even with most being level 75, the guilds with 200 to 300 online have 100+ 75s working 15 hours + a day and can not keep up with the macro bots

Do you actually know what a macro is? A macro is just automating playing the game, e.g. automating clicks and key presses. It's doing something a regular player would do, but automated (against the TOS). This means the person still has to be logged in and playing the game. You can't have players "hardly playing the game" be at the top of the leaderboard, that makes no sense. Macro or not, it requires these players to be doing optimal conquest activities for many hours per day. And anything that can be done via macro can be done manually, if players are dedicated. I know many crafters who just craft while watching TV. Requires a ton of clicking and many people would find it mind numbingly boring, but they don't. They just like to contribute.

The numbers are all visible. You can go see/calculate how much conquest can be earned by crafting. Per hour, its not that much. Where crafting shines is if you're doing other conquest activities (e.g. heroics, star fortresses, uprisings, etc) while also queuing crafting, all day long, every day.

Macros simply don't work the way you are implying.

The players that have 20m + conquest in these guilds are hardly playing the game, their guilds have under 10 players off peak about 65 at peak times, even with most being level 75, the guilds with 200 to 300 online have 100+ 75s working 15 hours + a day and can not keep up with the macro bots

This is pure disinformation. I'm in one of the largest (if not the largest) Conquest guilds on any of the servers. Let's talk about some facts instead:

We have had 7 years to organize and adapt as changes have come down the pipe. We have a relatively small amount of crafters, a larger amount of dedicated Conquestors, and a very large amount of players who just gain conquest points through just playing the game. We run 6-8 events every day that are aimed at Conquest while still providing a fun guild experience for our members. We have people who are dedicated to teaching and leading Ops, people who organize and run Conquest events, people who recruit and people who are responsible for reaching out to new members to assist them and make them feel like they are part of something. All of these people have a key role in our success in Conquest. None of this happened from day one, it took years - not months - to get enough people in key positions and to organize.

Every guild out there that wants it badly enough has every opportunity to do exactly the same thing we did. Take years to build a large successful guild that is competition-focused, experience all the setbacks, roll with the punches and win every week because every part of the guild is running like a swiss watch because we care.

We're not in it for the payoff. We don't get paid credits to win. Every single member that joins our guild knows we are a competitive conquest guild, they aren't cluelessly bumbling around making conquest objectives because we ninja-invited them. We're fair to everyone, there are no exceptions, everyone knows the drill. We remove people who don't achieve their conquest goals. We promote people who do. We're in it for each other.

The crafting objectives are just another aspect of the meta of conquest for us. They allow a segment of our members who enjoy that sort of thing (not a lot do) to meaningfully contribute to our victories, but crafting alone doesn't cut it. They craft AND they have to run content to put in the big numbers. One of the beautiful things about Conquest is that there are so many different ways to contribute. A properly prepared character can level 0-75 and pull 4m cp for doing it. Another player just doing daily areas can pull 1m per week per character. So while crafters can individually pull big numbers, in the aggregate they don't alone account for the win. It's the rest of the team pulling together with them that accounts for it.

Your 5 crafters versus our 5 crafters will all generate good numbers. You're not losing because our crafters are 'cheating', you're losing because you're new, disorganized, put out an extremely negative vibe and most of the people working towards winning are doing it for the wrong reasons or don't even know what they're doing, having been ninja-invited and then subsequently booted without ever knowing what was going on.

This is a total lie, Conquest has been easy like never before with ACTIVITY rather then CRAFTING unless its done for hours and hours.

 

HOWEVER

 

If Your issue is true, then the changes should be

 

A disabling limitless crafting, because it an be abused as i state, and i still see no reason why it shouldnt be changed because...

 

...B,

enhancing conquest rewards for other activities like OPses, FPs, PvE and PvP in general etc can change Your problem and furthers the goal to play together.

 

If You disagree with this i believe You play this game wrong, im sorry to say this, but again, finishing Your conquest is easy to that extend in that way, but letting You PC run 12h a day crafting is stupid and asocial and also can be abused with bots.

 

Myquestion is, how can a single guild with 20-50 people online reach half a billion conquest points in 3 days.

If anyone can explain this , then why CANT other guilds, who do rampage for example with the same amount of players or even 5 times as much NOT reach said conquest level?

 

Im genuenly curious what answers anyone has because ill gladly do exactly the same "secret" and recommend everyone else to do so if noone sees an issue or problem. i saw some players having 12 million CQ points in 2-3 days, lets figure out how so i can use the same tactic on my own private guild.

 

We all can play Single Player games instead of a MMORPG online if crafting is now suddenly the main reward for this game, and that You get after a repeated amount after hours and hours, who does that even (bots excluded)?

I guess you are either illiterate or just trying to pick a fight. I never said conquest is hard, so I would go for illiterate. I said crafting is sometimes needed to meet the guild goal especially in small guilds. I'm not going to demand people to play enough to meet the goal, and that means I will have to do it on my own if others haven't done enough numbers. Crafting is what I can do even when I don't have the time to do anything else to reach the guild goal. You are attacking all crafters, not just botters, and you have absolutely no right to tell people who craft are playing "wrong". It just makes you another tunnel visioned muppet trying to dictate others how they should play.

It's kind of funny that you also seem to insist that everyone should be social and play with other people just because it's MMO. Yet your own behaviour is a good example why a lot of people don't enjoy group content. Who would anyone want to play with someone who can only see things from their own narrow perspective, who doesn't care, approve or respect other people's choices to do what they want to do in game. My crafting is no business of yours or anyone else's and it doesn't affect how you play your game at all. Unlike you seem to believe, it's still a "play your way" game, and not "play Beoknez way". Just because you don't like how I and a lot of other people play, doesn't mean you'd get to tell us to "go play a single player game".

If you have a problem with botters, report them. Leave legit crafters alone. There is absolutely no reason to touch crafting as long as the guild goals are that high.

I said crafting is sometimes needed to meet the guild goal especially in small guilds. I'm not going to demand people to play enough to meet the goal, and that means I will have to do it on my own if others haven't done enough numbers. Crafting is what I can do even when I don't have the time to do anything else to reach the guild goal. You are attacking all crafters, not just botters, and you have absolutely no right to tell people who craft are playing "wrong". It just makes you another tunnel visioned muppet trying to dictate others how they should play.

 

 

If you have a problem with botters, report them. Leave legit crafters alone. There is absolutely no reason to touch crafting as long as the guild goals are that high.

You are 100% right about this. Just last night I had run one of my crafters through making 100 items (2x the repeatable crafting conquest achievement) to finish conquest on her because all other activities were done for the day.

I wish they finally dropped crafting as an infinitely repeatable. Why not replace it with a 3-tiered daily repeatable or something. Or a weekly. Make it very generous one at that if you must. Have tiers II and III require a notable amount of work and reward that with a significant amount of points. It is ridiculous how year after year, patch after patch various bots and exploits having to do with crafting apparently plays such a major part in some guilds conq plans.

Fully agree, it's the weekend when the trolls come out, as they know their posts get to stay there, and they can harass, lie, bully, etc. And they know nothing will be done till Monday. Someone needs to go through this thread, and a few others, and clear out all the trolls :/

Yeah, I've noticed this as well. Some extremely insulting and ugly posts by you, DarkTergon, stay up for a long while often.

I wish they finally dropped crafting as an infinitely repeatable. Why not replace it with a 3-tiered daily repeatable or something. Or a weekly. Make it very generous one at that if you must. Have tiers II and III require a notable amount of work and reward that with a significant amount of points. It is ridiculous how year after year, patch after patch various bots and exploits having to do with crafting apparently plays such a major part in some guilds conq plans.

 

And I wish they'd drop the GSF and PVP weeklies and dailies, that are way too OP now compared to everything else. And let me put it this way: if crafting gets nerfed because of whiners like you, I'll be sure to join GSF to ruin it from the likes of you, since ruining the game from everyone else seems to be the thing people now do, right?

GSF and PVP finishers are on conquest every single week, flashpoint finisher seems to be a rare event, and heroics eternal is only up sometimes. So quit whining what OTHER people do in the game, and quit demanding nerfs to OTHER people's objectives.

--snipped because the post will likely get tossed out an airlock--

No, they hand out warnings because some people keep breaking the forum rules, specifically naming and shaming. If you have evidence that something is going on, that someone is cheating, do not post it here. Make a report. Posting it here is not only useless but against the forum rules and will get you a warning, or if you keep at it, an infraction or forced vacation.

And I wish they'd drop the GSF and PVP weeklies and dailies, that are way too OP now compared to everything else. And let me put it this way: if crafting gets nerfed because of whiners like you, I'll be sure to join GSF to ruin it from the likes of you, since ruining the game from everyone else seems to be the thing people now do, right?

 

GSF and PVP finishers are on conquest every single week, flashpoint finisher seems to be a rare event, and heroics eternal is only up sometimes. So quit whining what OTHER people do in the game, and quit demanding nerfs to OTHER people's objectives.

Lol, I'm not even demanding nerfs as such. That isn't the point here.

Can you agree to this: It is a bad thing if botting or exploiting via crafting is super easy, important and popular? Y/N Is it a bad thing if that plays a pivotal role in conq race for some guilds? Y/N?

If you agree it is a bad thing, then I recon we can agree it'd be great if something was done to make botting or exploting crafting less leasy and less lucrative.

Lol, I'm not even demanding nerfs as such. That isn't the point here.

Can you agree to this: It is a bad thing if botting or exploiting via crafting is super easy, important and popular? Y/N Is it a bad thing if that plays a pivotal role in conq race for some guilds? Y/N?

If you agree it is a bad thing, then I recon we can agree it'd be great if something was done to make botting or exploting crafting less leasy and less lucrative.

If botting is a problem, and assuming botting is against the TOS, go after the botters for not obeying the TOS. Why must everyone be nerfed because of what a small group of jerks are doing?

PS: I have no vested interest in crafting as the last time I levelled a craft was sometime around makeb. I merely feel if someone is disobeying the TOS, you should go after the people being the problem and not make everyone suffer for a few bad eggs; which, coincidentally is my opinion on this change as a whole. Throw out the rotten eggs and leave the rest well enough alone.

I haven't posted in awhile.

On the surface, I like the changes outlined in the OP.

#2 - guild loss of points for losing the character in a conquest week. I've often thought of as a solution to "guild hopping" that long dormant threads spoke of but never thought the devs would go for it.

#1 - I understand WHY they're doing this, and agree with it....MOSTLY.

However, as some people stated early on, this prevents people who are actively TRYING to get the conqueror titles from doing it. Today someone can look at the leader board for the planet they want to invade, ask to be invited, and if they get in and if that guild wins, they get the title. Under the new proposed rule they'd have to Guess at which guild to join, wait the grace period through, and HOPE the guild they were invited to invades the correct one. There's too many unknowns with that and if you get it wrong, you leave the guild, lose the guild level rewards for the week, then have to go through ANOTHER grace period to try what I'm going to call "guessing the guild invasion plan roulette" again.

With a grace period of the time the devs are proposing, I don't see a way around it.

It will cause a fundamental shift of playstyle for those people who are actively trying to get all those titles.

I would suggest to the devs that they allow a single toon, per legacy, to be exempt from the grace period.

That would allow those people JUST trying to get those titles to continue on...just one title at a time, instead of maybe all 3 for a week by putting 3 different toons in the top guild per invasion size.

As for botting, which was my original topic for this post before I saw the 2nd dev post...sorry just have to say this...

Botting is against the TOS, not infinite crafting.

Enforce the existing rules, don't punish everyone because a few people are cheating.

Oh...also...

anyone with SH bonus of 150% and a toon under level 71 can get 50k conquest in 30 seconds, by following the rules.

~17k conquest points to raise a companion up a level

~32k conquest points to respec utility points

~2k points to place a deco in your SH 5 times.

Every single day

once a day

I welcome the changes and thanks DEVs.

I was in 2 guilds.

Guild A - I enrolled since it was the top guild and wanted to see what the fuss was about. I will not mentioned names but heard this one was just using people like cattle and did not care about anything but conquest numbers. I was there for 2 days. I was active yet in day 2 got kicked out. I did not make the required 50K in conquest points (I was intentionally doing this) then all of a sudden with NO explanation was kicked out....just in 2 days.

Guild B - This one was a medium ranking not so popular but making the top 5 in conquest. I was amazed that nobody kicked me and guild was almost at 995 in members. They had a great website and policies that leaders followed up religiously. One of the statements they mentioned " We will not kick out any members unless inactive for 30 days" Wow wasn't that amazing? regardless of "conquest points".

Guess what I felt at home in guild 2 and still there for over years making so many conquest and top contributor at times. My Gulld has made the top once in a while.

People are NOT just numbers and so happy this is a change in the right direction. So sorry for the people that were used to inflate numbers and now this will fix this issue.

Still unhappy that the side effects are getting strewn my way.

Oh I also remembered: I still have to log in to set cq tonight even though, after 12 hours at work, I would very much like nothing more than to simply mindlessly sit on my sofa.

I do so dearly love changes that should have absolutely nothing to do with me somehow meaning I need to change my entire schedule to fit them.

Surely spam inviting and kicking newbies amounts to player harassment and can be dealt with as such under the TOS?

 

Character and Guild Separation

When a player is removed from a Guild by the Guild, their Conquest contributions will now be removed from that Guild as well. In the event the character leaves a Guild on their own accord, the points they contributed to a Guild’s Conquest will remain with the Guild for that Conquest.

 

When removing characters, Guild Leadership will now be provided with a notification informing them that removing the member will result in a loss of that member’s Conquest contributions. Again, it is important to note that this is per character, and not account.

Amen, this happens all the time, somebody puts in the work to get the conquest points and they boot the character and you get nothing for the work.

 

Oh I also remembered: I still have to log in to set cq tonight even though, after 12 hours at work, I would very much like nothing more than to simply mindlessly sit on my sofa.

 

Why? CQ is not locked till sunday night. You can do it any time between tuesday and sunday

I welcome the changes and thanks DEVs.

 

 

Guild A - I enrolled since it was the top guild and wanted to see what the fuss was about. I will not mentioned names but heard this one was just using people like cattle and did not care about anything but conquest numbers. I was there for 2 days. I was active yet in day 2 got kicked out. I did not make the required 50K in conquest points (I was intentionally doing this) then all of a sudden with NO explanation was kicked out....just in 2 days.

 

 

 

People are NOT just numbers and so happy this is a change in the right direction. So sorry for the people that were used to inflate numbers and now this will fix this issue.

There is now a guild on SF where you have to get 100k or get booted, I had toons who got the 50+, but not 100k, who got booted before reset on tuesday, so even though I got CQ, and should have got the rewards from the guild, they still got booted, and I ended up with nothing.

There is now a guild on SF where you have to get 100k or get booted, I had toons who got the 50+, but not 100k, who got booted before reset on tuesday, so even though I got CQ, and should have got the rewards from the guild, they still got booted, and I ended up with nothing.

Yeah, now those guilds will just do their booting on Tuesday after reset and , thanks to the probation period, you will be locked out of guild Conquest rewards for the next week.

Yeah, now those guilds will just do their booting on Tuesday after reset and , thanks to the probation period, you will be locked out of guild Conquest rewards for the next week.

And those guilds can replace those people they kicked for underperforming with uhh... people who will earn zero points for them this week

Why? CQ is not locked till sunday night. You can do it any time between tuesday and sunday

I've tried setting it on many a Saturday. It was too late.

I've tried setting it on many a Saturday. It was too late.

Depends on your time zone. I’ve also tried doing it on Sunday and had no issues. But then I am a day ahead of most of you guys.

And those guilds can replace those people they kicked for underperforming with uhh... people who will earn zero points for them this week

No, those guilds will do more aggressive recruitment from Friday to Monday and then push those people to make as many Conquest points as they can for the next week, and then kick them the following Tuesday. They will just change their routine to recruit a new batch each weekend and kick the old batch on Tuesday.

There is now a guild on SF where you have to get 100k or get booted, I had toons who got the 50+, but not 100k, who got booted before reset on tuesday, so even though I got CQ, and should have got the rewards from the guild, they still got booted, and I ended up with nothing.

I know of at least one guild on SF that requires 200K, I got booted from it because I chose to not get to 200k I stopped at 190K intentionally. I disagree with requirements to be in a guild that go above the 50k conquest points. It was not an issue of getting to 200K that is not a problem it is simply I disagree with that requirement, so I decided to make them follow through with there threat to boot me. I had a toon in a different guild on the same server for nearly two years always made conquest goals, first time I failed to make goal, I got booted. These changes are welcome but will not really change anything, other than punish the person who got booted by making conquests irrelevant for a week after getting booted.

These changes are welcome but will not really change anything, other than punish the person who got booted by making conquests irrelevant for a week after getting booted.

You make valid points.

There is another way to look at the guild situation though, and that is through the lens of specialization.

I think a "Conquest" guild should always be regarded as very competitive with emphasis on Conquest driven goals, and as the name suggests, Conquer planets. Cutthroat and competitive. It would not be unreasonable to impose a minimum amount a member should contribute in these types of guilds.

Whereas PVP guilds will have their emphasis on PVP and Raiding guilds on Raids and progs etc. These guilds can expect their members to be actively involved in their chosen specializations.

IOW if you hate PVP do not join a PVP oriented guild.

Similarly, if you do not like the competitive nature of Conquest guilds, stay away.

Then there's those Guilds will do a bit of everything, and have no specific specialization.

They can afford to be more laid back and perhaps concentrate more on the community itself, creating that near "perfect" environment most players will seek. This is THE most difficult type of guild to run and maintain though, so you probably wont find too many of them, but the few out there is definitely worth investing in. Even if it means you have to make a little extra effort to help the community of that guild in general. In return, you will have the benefit of a great community and be able to enjoy and take part in any content you wish with your friends.

The trade off is you wont find the top raiders or top pvp'ers in those guilds.

Choosing the right guild is actually really important to enjoy the game the way you want to enjoy it.

And that is why I actually do like that grace period. It gives new players (and old ones) the opportunity to really experience a prospective guild without any pressure.

But its just my opinion, and I am sure I miss the point somewhere.