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Streamlining ability set.Who asked for this?These are not changes you are looking for


omaan

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Is swtor a mobile game? No

Did we had new classes since game release? No

Do players enjoy variety and more possibilities to play different types of content in swtor? Yes

 

So why would you remove even few abilities? We have enough bars to keep all abilities, and those which are used less are not key binded. You already streamlined classes few times in the past - when took away talent trees, when removed secondary abilities from classes (e.g. snipe from operatives, channeling ravage from marauder, cast abilities from assassin etc). So why would you make it even more Streamlined? It's an mmo game and people enjoy having variety of abilities which they choose to use or not.

 

Besides, i must remind that certain advanced classes in swtor are already too similar to each other. Dot assassin and dot sorcerer are nearly the same, fury marauder and rage juggernaut are almost the same, few classes are inflicting same debuffs (e.g. "target takes 10% more damage from aoe abilities" is applied by fury marauder, engineering sniper, telekinetics sage). Removing abilities will only make old classes even more similar, without enough set of unique abilities there is no sense to play different classes at all and game will become more boring and monotony.

Edited by omaan
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Is swtor a mobile game? No

 

Oh, for crying out loud. Two abilities are (as of yet) permanently gone. Freezing Force and Force Clarity. The first one was always just a stupidly overpowered choice in PvP that added nothing in terms of exciting gameplay to the class. Especially coupled with the insane focus generation from Saber Throw, Force Leap and Combat Focus on a short cooldown and the added benefit of Persistent Chill, it was always just a no-brainer. You might as well add a permanent aura around the Guardian that slows everyone around by 50% and gives you 50% movement speed. With it having no cooldown, doing all that and costing a negligible amount of focus, it would be functionally the same.

 

Force Clarity was a two-year-old ability that was pretty much: press this button to do some more damage on 1-4 abilities depending on how long you wait. No offense, but even seeing the amount of stacks on top of it was a bit strange. It was effectively a cooldown you'd press every two minutes to get some more damage. It wasn't part of exciting gameplay or strategy, but just something you pressed before your rotation every so often to burst a bit. A proc could do the same thing.

 

Outside of that, as I have said in another post, things that were moved around weren't integral to the classes either. Challenging Call on a Vigilance Guardian was an annoying ability you pressed when your tank didn't do his job properly, and not something that was exciting or defined me as a Guardian. I'd much rather see threat generation reworked across the board so I don't have to press it every minute to lose threat. It's a "situational" thing that solves a situational problem that shouldn't even exist.

 

Guardian Leap was always a nice ability for defensive specs, but with how there is now a utility that turns Zealous Leap for Focus Guardians into something that gap closes and gives defensive utility, we effectively get an offensive Guardian Leap that is more in line with being a DPS player and sticking to the target while retaining some defensive use.

 

And since Resolute, Dispatch and Combat Focus are returning, everything is fine. Judging by the incredibly well presented list made by FumblesPhD, we're looking at twenty-four baseline key-binds + Saber Throw and Awe you can spec into + Dispatch and Combat Focus returning + the new ability + medpacs and stims + interrupt and CC breaker. That's up to 33 keybinds for a Guardian player.

 

But sure, the last mobile game I played had 33 keybinds...

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Besides, i must remind that certain advanced classes in swtor are already too similar to each other ... Removing abilities will only make old classes even more similar, without enough set of unique abilities there is no sense to play different classes at all and game will become more boring and monotony.

 

That is kind of the point. They are similar, yes. They are 'trimming' some fat, yes

This is where your perspective falls short.

That is not *all* they are doing. They are adding, changing, tuning abilities. They are drawing new lines between the fantasy of what is an assassin sith vs what is a sorcerer, and they are going to do it in a way that is not as shortsighted as you are being here.

Edited by FumblesPhD
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Oh, for crying out loud. Two abilities are (as of yet) permanently gone. Freezing Force and Force Clarity. The first one was always just a stupidly overpowered choice in PvP that added nothing in terms of exciting gameplay to the class. Especially coupled with the insane focus generation from Saber Throw, Force Leap and Combat Focus on a short cooldown and the added benefit of Persistent Chill, it was always just a no-brainer. You might as well add a permanent aura around the Guardian that slows everyone around by 50% and gives you 50% movement speed. With it having no cooldown, doing all that and costing a negligible amount of focus, it would be functionally the same.

 

Force Clarity was a two-year-old ability that was pretty much: press this button to do some more damage on 1-4 abilities depending on how long you wait. No offense, but even seeing the amount of stacks on top of it was a bit strange. It was effectively a cooldown you'd press every two minutes to get some more damage. It wasn't part of exciting gameplay or strategy, but just something you pressed before your rotation every so often to burst a bit. A proc could do the same thing.

 

Outside of that, as I have said in another post, things that were moved around weren't integral to the classes either. Challenging Call on a Vigilance Guardian was an annoying ability you pressed when your tank didn't do his job properly, and not something that was exciting or defined me as a Guardian. I'd much rather see threat generation reworked across the board so I don't have to press it every minute to lose threat. It's a "situational" thing that solves a situational problem that shouldn't even exist.

 

Guardian Leap was always a nice ability for defensive specs, but with how there is now a utility that turns Zealous Leap for Focus Guardians into something that gap closes and gives defensive utility, we effectively get an offensive Guardian Leap that is more in line with being a DPS player and sticking to the target while retaining some defensive use.

 

And since Resolute, Dispatch and Combat Focus are returning, everything is fine. Judging by the incredibly well presented list made by FumblesPhD, we're looking at twenty-four baseline key-binds + Saber Throw and Awe you can spec into + Dispatch and Combat Focus returning + the new ability + medpacs and stims + interrupt and CC breaker. That's up to 33 keybinds for a Guardian player.

 

But sure, the last mobile game I played had 33 keybinds...

 

Really? Freezing force is OP? A aoe slow is broken, have you never heard of shatter slug 75% reduced move speed with 100% uptime? What do you lose in exchange for this OP "Aura" jugg has? you need the 30 seconds off of ED utility, you need the mad dash cooldown reduction, last one is up for grabs between more intimidating roars (force bound) or a 5 second reflect. That pathetic 50% slow and 35% move speed buff for 8 seconds that you just spent a GCD on isnt going to save you at all. It has its uses and when its useful it shines, but you dont see juggs running around ranked spamming freezing force and getting easy gold ratings.

 

AOE taunt is not about threat generation on boss, its also your 60% aoe DR button in PvE content instead of the passive 30% AOE DR other classes get you have to use it at the right time to really make it shine. It is also invaluable in PvP 30% DR to your whole team in immediate radius. Removing this and tacking on a flat 30% DR utility to jugg doesnt help make it unique. Being a DWT without a aoe taunt is not something I like the thought of.

 

Guardian Leap is a great ability for all specs not just tank spec, in PvE if you are in a bad position or if someone is about to get hit and you want to help them its your meal ticket. In PvP its a 20% DR for a tunneled target button, or a get out of team fight for free button. It needs a separate ability because it is used for completely different things.

 

The difference between mara and jugg is going to be guard and single target taunt. What a joke, why would anyone play dps jugg in this state.

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Really?have you never heard of shatter slug 75% reduced move speed with 100% uptime?

Main a PT for years and I never heard of 100% uptime 75% slow. The utility you are referencing gives 75% slow for 15 sec every 30 sec, which means most Powertechs/Vanguards die before they can use it a second time. That utility was there forever, its funny to see how people make a big deal of it.)

 

It kinda makes me curious what pt's are going to get if the jugg mains feel stripped of dcd's lol)

Edited by Voroschuk
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Main a PT for years and I never heard of 100% uptime 75% slow. The utility you are referencing gives 75% slow for 15 sec every 30 sec, which means most Powertechs/Vanguards die before they can use it a second time lol. That utility was there forever, its funny to see how people make a big deal of it.)

 

It kinda makes me curious what pt's are going to get if the jugg mains feel stripped of dcd's lol)

 

A choice between power yield/ hydros and adren rush rofl. Dont cheery pick my post though I do not main PT and it was not the backbone of my argument.

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For twenty years, there has been a constant drive towards over simplification in gaming. You get a bunch of guys sitting in a meeting that don't really know or understand the customer, or maybe even take a dim view of the customer, and they end up imagining a customer that doesn't really exist, who is confused by 8 abilities, but not 7. They fetishize mathematical/mechanical sleekness over feel and visual. When discussing Deus Ex vs. Invisible War, and what went wrong, Harvey Smith gives probably

I've heard.

 

At this point, I've watched it happen to more games and franchises than I can remember, I've never watched it produce a better product, but the simplicity brain worm just keeps finding new devs to infect. An enjoyable online game eventually being patched into something less is the expectation, not the exception. I actually can't think of any online games that have escaped it.

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Really? Freezing force is OP? A aoe slow is broken, have you never heard of shatter slug 75% reduced move speed with 100% uptime? What do you lose in exchange for this OP "Aura" jugg has? you need the 30 seconds off of ED utility, you need the mad dash cooldown reduction, last one is up for grabs between more intimidating roars (force bound) or a 5 second reflect. That pathetic 50% slow and 35% move speed buff for 8 seconds that you just spent a GCD on isnt going to save you at all. It has its uses and when its useful it shines, but you dont see juggs running around ranked spamming freezing force and getting easy gold ratings.

 

AOE taunt is not about threat generation on boss, its also your 60% aoe DR button in PvE content instead of the passive 30% AOE DR other classes get you have to use it at the right time to really make it shine. It is also invaluable in PvP 30% DR to your whole team in immediate radius. Removing this and tacking on a flat 30% DR utility to jugg doesnt help make it unique. Being a DWT without a aoe taunt is not something I like the thought of.

 

Guardian Leap is a great ability for all specs not just tank spec, in PvE if you are in a bad position or if someone is about to get hit and you want to help them its your meal ticket. In PvP its a 20% DR for a tunneled target button, or a get out of team fight for free button. It needs a separate ability because it is used for completely different things.

 

The difference between mara and jugg is going to be guard and single target taunt. What a joke, why would anyone play dps jugg in this state.

 

indeed, there are also no reflect for guardian if you don't choose proper build. The difference between sentinel and guardian now is camouflage, and of course it is better to choose sentinel because with camouflage you can skip npc in pve and save yourself from other players in pvp. Why you would play a useless guardian now when sentinel will be the same but with quasi-stealth ability.

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When discussing Deus Ex vs. Invisible War, and what went wrong, Harvey Smith gives probably
I've heard.

 

Thanks for sharing, 2 things hit me:

  • they listened to their engineer friends instead of their players
  • things were "mechanically" the same but they were very different from a player's "fantasy" perspective

 

These 2 points look so very much close to what's happening here IMO.

 

Ofc noone knows who BW is actually listening to, or if they try to copy WoW as many are speculating, but it's certain they don't fully understand what their players want or what their fantasy is.

 

An enjoyable online game eventually being patched into something less is the expectation, not the exception. I actually can't think of any online games that have escaped it.

 

Nor can I. And if a game can come out again, in the same state it was more than 15 years ago, with all its flaws but also all its "fantasy", and be a huge success even among people that weren't even born when it released originally, something is amiss in modern MMO designing.

Edited by silviaslack
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You get a bunch of guys sitting in a meeting that don't really know or understand the customer, or maybe even take a dim view of the customer, and they end up imagining a customer that doesn't really exist, who is confused by 8 abilities, but not 7.

 

I mean, the customer is also all the people who spammed the forums every day for what ? months ? asking for nerfs to spirit of vengeance over and over and over again because they couldn't beat the solo story mode, and eventually got what they wanted.

Edited by Loc_n_lol
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For 1 you are assuming they have not actually thought up the other classes yet and how they are designed. Sentinels and other classes may actually have hits to them that guardian is having but with other abilities. While prunning of unnecessary abilities in the long run is necessary, prunning of necessary abilities is bad form. But they are going to make you decide how to play each of the classes which maybe different from other players. A lot of players may not like it, I am on the fence about how they are approaching it but the idea is solid if executed a bit better.

 

You have to assume they are only going to minor tweak this system going forward and that they actually have the other classes already thought of the different paths going forward. Do not forget we have not seen the new Utility layout since some of the utilities seem to be add for guardian into their skill trees, so revamped Utilities will eventually be added as well.

 

Between Onslaught and LotS it seems like they are actually part 1 and part 2 of the same expansion setting up for 8.0 and beyond actually. Seeing a lot of people looking at this as sky is falling and its the end of the world type of changes. While there are changes inside this that is bad it also forces players to actually think than be a button mashing machine and not think for themselves. Sure there are abilities that actually kind of nerf you but you have to assume its going to be that way for every single class out there not just guardian specs. They did not actually lie about what was going to be in the expansion/PTS's people just were not paying close attention to every word they were saying. Vague as the answers were they did tell you exactly what they were going to do. Most that will change with this system is the abilities that you will get to choose from and thats what you need to be looking at.

 

I been playing and raiding since launch and played and raided in other games as well these changes happen with MMOs. While they are dumbing down even more than they already have they are actually giving you options of how to play specs within specs. Some maybe more viable than others while others are less viable in a manner of speaking dumbing it down to the point they have actually made the game even more complex than it already was. Because you have to play smarter, choose your abilities based on your playstyle and probably your raid group's or pvp based. You are not going be a freaking robot anymore with classes. They want you to tailor your class specifically the way that best fits you rather than fits everybody else its basically another level of character customization. sure they tied some pretty useful abilities where they should not have.

 

You will get changes you ask for, others you never ask for or want thats MMO gaming for any of you that think its just bioware. WoW did changes that made you scratch your head all the time so did other MMOs this is literally nothing new even for Swtor itself. Well these exact changes are new but changes to classes in general that nobody asked for always happen.

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In my opinion based on World of Warcraft current content, with those choices you will just be a robot with less abilities (less possibilities too) checking internet before every fight. Because there is noway to balance it.

The first thing I loved with SWTOR is that I should not have to choose between two active abilities and having them all in my kit.

Edited by LeoAugustina
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For twenty years, there has been a constant drive towards over simplification in gaming. You get a bunch of guys sitting in a meeting that don't really know or understand the customer, or maybe even take a dim view of the customer, and they end up imagining a customer that doesn't really exist, who is confused by 8 abilities, but not 7. They fetishize mathematical/mechanical sleekness over feel and visual. When discussing Deus Ex vs. Invisible War, and what went wrong, Harvey Smith gives probably
I've heard.

 

At this point, I've watched it happen to more games and franchises than I can remember, I've never watched it produce a better product, but the simplicity brain worm just keeps finding new devs to infect. An enjoyable online game eventually being patched into something less is the expectation, not the exception. I actually can't think of any online games that have escaped it.

 

Nice rational logical post.

 

A rarity these days. :ph_good_post:

 

---

I mean, the customer is also all the people who spammed the forums every day for what ? months ? asking for nerfs to spirit of vengeance over and over and over again because they couldn't beat the solo story mode, and eventually got what they wanted.

 

That's actually an excellent point , and ironically what "they" really wanted (but maybe couldn't express it) was just to shorten the length of the FP (by reducing all the excessively boring high-hp trash mobs ) instead of a full on dumbing down easy mode across the board. Which btw is even more irony, since the whole 'story/veteran/master' modes are supposed to do just that lol

 

Anyways, no one is saying BioWare's decisions are gonna please everyone, much less the vocal minority (whatever that is anymore) .

 

And obviously the entirety of the LotS update (and all combat changes therein) hasn't been revealed yet.

 

But it all just SEEMS....i dunno....unnecessary.

 

And i just personally never understand why Dev teams always focus on combat overhauls so much, when there are so many other far more immersive & interesting aspects of SWTOR (see my sig :D ) to put attention toward; particularly in our *10th Anniversary* year. /shrug

Edited by Nee-Elder
the word "suspect" didn't come off right
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I find it funny when you all know this is a very bare bones version of the system that still has 6 months of development time left and most people here are acting like this is the final pts version instead of going crazy right now save your outrage for the final pts build if it stays the same.
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I find it funny when you all know this is a very bare bones version of the system that still has 6 months of development time left and most people here are acting like this is the final pts version instead of going crazy right now save your outrage for the final pts build if it stays the same.

 

Yes by all means save your feedback for when the new content will be already finished and tuned to these changes and when it will be impossible to change stuff according to said feedback :rolleyes:

 

BIOWARE asked for feedback on what's available atm in pts and people are giving it, yet as per usual the "wait and see" crowd are already here polluting discussion and feedback with their useless diatribes on how feedback should be relayed and when.

 

Btw I haven't seen any outrage here either all I see is people trying to make heads or tails on what is happening to the characters they have been playing for years, and giving feedback with the very little overall expansion info they have.

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I find it funny when you all know this is a very bare bones version of the system that still has 6 months of development time left and most people here are acting like this is the final pts version instead of going crazy right now save your outrage for the final pts build if it stays the same.

 

Very funny, if we don't say it now, devs will just do as they whant and say "well, the time you outlined your concerns we already had reached the point we can't change anything, so sorry". Knowing devs in swtor it's better to shout loud and clear about our concerns and as much as possible or we will see new quests killing team ranked, one class receiving huge buff while other getting nerfed, removal of cool old outfits from the game etc.

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Very funny, if we don't say it now, devs will just do as they whant and say "well, the time you outlined your concerns we already had reached the point we can't change anything, so sorry". Knowing devs in swtor it's better to shout loud and clear about our concerns and as much as possible or we will see new quests killing team ranked, one class receiving huge buff while other getting nerfed, removal of cool old outfits from the game etc.

 

The "White Knights" here have nothing. Guardians are being nerfed heavily, other classes will be too. These changes aren't "necessary" unless you want to say that they should have happened 10 years ago when guardians had over 25 things to keybind. Guardians had ~4 new abilities added since then (and in my guardian's pts spec he's lost access to all of them). There is no "losing this, gaining that" it's all "losing", all nerfs.

 

And it's already too late; BW is committed to this course of action. They may tweak a couple things but 4-5 months is not time to rethink, replace (and recode and test) anything major for an xpac.

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I mean, the customer is also all the people who spammed the forums every day for what ? months ? asking for nerfs to spirit of vengeance over and over and over again because they couldn't beat the solo story mode, and eventually got what they wanted.

 

Spirit of Vengeance needed a "nerf" not because it is hard, but because it is a long boring slog in Story Mode.

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The "White Knights" here have nothing. Guardians are being nerfed heavily, other classes will be too. These changes aren't "necessary" unless you want to say that they should have happened 10 years ago when guardians had over 25 things to keybind. Guardians had ~4 new abilities added since then (and in my guardian's pts spec he's lost access to all of them). There is no "losing this, gaining that" it's all "losing", all nerfs.

 

And it's already too late; BW is committed to this course of action. They may tweak a couple things but 4-5 months is not time to rethink, replace (and recode and test) anything major for an xpac.

 

Sadly I agree. It is too late. They might tweak a thing or two to appear as if they listen to feedback, but in their business outline they have already proceeded with these changes. Pruning will happen.

Interestingly the news about dumbing down SWTOR strangely coincide with the release of Steam Deck, a new, Nintendo Switch-like, PC-based console. In some weird, dark and funny sort of way, these two events might be connected, but that’s too far fetched.

The nerf-hammer comes to smite upon our game, enjoy your characters while we still have full skill sets.

Edited by Labranth
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I find it funny when you all know this is a very bare bones version of the system that still has 6 months of development time left and most people here are acting like this is the final pts version instead of going crazy right now save your outrage for the final pts build if it stays the same.

 

Yes by all means save your feedback for when the new content will be already finished and tuned to these changes and when it will be impossible to change stuff according to said feedback :rolleyes:

 

BIOWARE asked for feedback on what's available atm in pts and people are giving it, yet as per usual the "wait and see" crowd are already here polluting discussion and feedback with their useless diatribes on how feedback should be relayed and when.

 

Exactly this.

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I've seen several folks trying to portray this as a "do it for the new players" kind of thing. Yet that assumes new players are too stupid to read their abilities and learn, well before we've ever even met the new person. In today's day and age, there are guides, videos, and similar out there people can look for, and players who can help them. Back when the game first launched we didn't have those things, but today we do. If folks choose not to look for info, that's a self-inflicted wound as they have chosen not to accept help and have hamstrung themselves. That's not the fault of the game or community, and the rest of us shouldn't have to pay for a small amount of people choosing to remain in the dark vs learning and growing. All of their arguments are purely emotional appeals that don't address anything, but attempt a never ending Tu Quo Que fallacy or an "exception that proves the rule" fallacy. Such as their emotional appeals of "you're just projecting" or trying to use fringe examples to demonstrate why they believe a pruning is needed and trying to apply it to the whole of the game.

 

Every ability we have now for the guardian is a part of the toolkit that allows the class to do their job and adapt to the situation in front of them. I've played every class and spec at some point or another, though I typically main a tank. Each ability is part of my toolkit that allows me to do my job. If you start yanking abilities out of the toolkit willy nilly, you're stealing durability from me, and you're stealing abilities that I've had for a very long time, perhaps since launch depending on what ability ends up getting stolen. Now as a class I would be weaker overall. Personally I don't use the ability Awe that often, but that doesn't make it useless. For all I know it could be someone's bread and butter elsewhere. Not everyone plays the exact same way. I actually put a video out on my youtube talking about this stuff, and showing how each ability gets used. I don't have swtorista's numbers so idk how much good it'll do.

 

Stealing abilities we have and dividing them up between loadout presets and giving them back to us like they've done us a favor, doesn't add anything new, but steals substance and gameplay from us. Just like slicing up a pie. Each time you create an additional slice in the pie, you're not creating more pie, you're just further dividing what's already there, which means each piece of pie gets less and less substance to it. Likewise, stealing abilities from us then dividing them up gives us less choice, and less uniqueness. Division doesn't create, it only subtracts. You don't preserve uniqueness by stealing it, and you don't create more uniqueness by recycling what's already there.

 

They also like to say "but we need to wait and see everything before we make a decision." I'm all for making sure we have all available info, and right now the available info says that this is a huge mega nerf overall. We don't need to know every one or zero of the code in this instance to see where this is going. They made clear in their statements they have this planned for the other classes as well. There is enough information here to make an informed inference that if they're doing this to one class, the others are going to be just as bad off if not worse.

 

Then let's not forget that World of Warcraft tried it and had to walk it back. They even admitted as much themselves, dubbing one of their devs The Unpruner. Star Wars Galaxies also changed the core of their gameplay and it completely obliterated that game from existence. Certain folks want to act like we have no real data and no real world examples to show this is a bad idea, but we do. This would make the 3rd time a major game has tried this foolishness, and it would be doing the same thing 3 times while expecting a different result, the literal definition of insanity. it doesn't add value, but steals value and is lazy development overall. It doesn't create new choice and it doesn't preserve uniqueness, both of which run counter to their stated goals.

 

Honestly they need to scrap this whole mess and start over. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If they want us to use new powers, then give us new powers worth considering. If I have 10 powers in my toolkit as a hypothetical, give me another set of 10 powers to consider using. You can't force people to play how you want them to play, you have to give them incentives to do it, or they're going to just quit using your stuff or quit playing your game. When I made levels and maps for TimeSplitters I would put med packs, armor, and more powerful weapons in the center of the map to draw people out of their bases, and it worked. Furthermore if I wanted to play a Diablo style game where I only have 5 buttons, I would go play Diablo. I play SWTOR in part still because it's not a dumbed down game. I actually enjoy some depth to my toons. You can't do a deep dive and having meaningful choices in only 6 inches of water.

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Honestly they need to scrap this whole mess and start over. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If they want us to use new powers, then give us new powers worth considering. If I have 10 powers in my toolkit as a hypothetical, give me another set of 10 powers to consider using. You can't force people to play how you want them to play, you have to give them incentives to do it, or they're going to just quit using your stuff or quit playing your game. When I made levels and maps for TimeSplitters I would put med packs, armor, and more powerful weapons in the center of the map to draw people out of their bases, and it worked. Furthermore if I wanted to play a Diablo style game where I only have 5 buttons, I would go play Diablo. I play SWTOR in part still because it's not a dumbed down game. I actually enjoy some depth to my toons. You can't do a deep dive and having meaningful choices in only 6 inches of water.

 

Keep in mind that the Dev's have already put in a considerable amount of time and money for this new system and have others above them they have to answer to. As we have seen in the past, no amount of people saying scrap the the whole mess will result in just that. This time however, they have brought the concept before us much earlier than in the past. This gives us the ability to give specific feedback that can help form the final product. In the end, what we get will be whatever they decide to give us but, if we just give them generalized feedback such as scrap the whole mess, we have pretty much thrown away our chance to have any meaningful impact on the final product.

 

This post is not directed at the one in quotes but for all of us. Give the Dev's the clear concise feedback which they requested, like some here in the forums have done. For those who want to wait and see, you are throwing away an honest chance at having the game resemble something you will enjoy playing imho. The correct time to provide feedback is when it is asked for. I doubt very much they will stay focused on any one particular class for too long as the amount of content changing is large. PvP is fluid and not scripted so what they have to change is balance for the classes. PvE on the other hand has vast amounts of scripted encounters that will have to change. Something they have promised they will do. Whether they get all that done by release is something we will have to wait and see. If they do not then they will have to reap the whirlwind as they have in the past numerous times. At least let us focus on giving them meaningful feedback.

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For those who want to wait and see, you are throwing away an honest chance at having the game resemble something you will enjoy playing imho. .

As I understand, the "wait and see" comments were for people who started jumping to conclusions that this is going to be the end of the game and other ridiculous "the sky is falling" kind of posts. I mean, obviously, we have to share our thoughts and concerns, but it has to be done in a way that will allow the devs to understand what can be done to achieve their goals in a way that will make sense for the players.

 

Right now it feels like the biggest issue is that the devs and players have different perceptions of what can be called "streamlined" gameplay.

Edited by Voroschuk
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As I understand, the "wait and see" comments were for people who started jumping to conclusions that this is going to be the end of the game and other ridiculous "the sky is falling" kind of posts. I mean, obviously, we have to share our thoughts and concerns, but it has to be done in a way that will allow the devs to understand what can be done to achieve their goals in a way that will make sense for the players.

 

Right now it feels like the biggest issue is that the devs and players have different perceptions of what can be called "streamlined" gameplay.

 

Why does the game need to be more streamlined than it already is? For solo story players it is very accessible, very very easy to play.

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