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My first Ranked PvP season in ANY MMO, any big brain advice walking into it?


SoundPulserino

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Im about 15 matches into my first season, Im currently around 1050, which I hear is incredibly low, but to be expected honestly. I can accept it

But id sorta like to improve? By the end of the session I pretty much enjoyed it overall so I thought I try to see where I can improve on. Im currently rocking my sage healer in these matches and getting advice by ear during these matches (along with being flamed but we dont talk about that)

Im not sure if there are any relevant PvP guides for SWTOR in its current state, but any and all advice would be very much appreciated :rak_03:

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watch streams.

 

unfortunately, I don't know of any healer streamers, but cease (actually_cease on twitch, iirc) will answer questions in his stream if you ask about what he's doing to sage healers. he tanks and dpses.

 

it's easier for someone to respond to you when they can do it via voice like a twitch stream, and streamers can do it during down time or while actually engaged in the matches. more likely to get longer replies.

 

iunno if any of the others I followed are active these days.

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Im about 15 matches into my first season, Im currently around 1050, which I hear is incredibly low, but to be expected honestly. I can accept it

But id sorta like to improve? By the end of the session I pretty much enjoyed it overall so I thought I try to see where I can improve on. Im currently rocking my sage healer in these matches and getting advice by ear during these matches (along with being flamed but we dont talk about that)

Im not sure if there are any relevant PvP guides for SWTOR in its current state, but any and all advice would be very much appreciated :rak_03:

 

"Incredibly low..." Mmm, not so sure. I think I saw someone at 700 or so once (not in game, though).

 

Fox is right. Cease is VERY helpful. In point of fact, he's stated in his streams that he enjoys helping people. He's helped me a number of times. He WANTS players to be more knowledgeable and pay well because it makes the games more enjoyable.

Edited by Sappharan
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Im about 15 matches into my first season, Im currently around 1050, which I hear is incredibly low, but to be expected honestly. I can accept it

But id sorta like to improve? By the end of the session I pretty much enjoyed it overall so I thought I try to see where I can improve on. Im currently rocking my sage healer in these matches and getting advice by ear during these matches (along with being flamed but we dont talk about that)

Im not sure if there are any relevant PvP guides for SWTOR in its current state, but any and all advice would be very much appreciated :rak_03:

 

FWIW, I intend to start my first real ranked season tuesday (when AC is turned on in my place...long, boring story), and I expect I will be down in the 1ks as well. Now, I watched a GOLD player dip into the 1100s last season, so 1ks is not as bad as you might think. Furthermore, he rose to gold later on. Not entirely sure, but I think he mentioned it was his first season. He is an amazing player of course, but the takeaway is that it can happen to anyone, even the best.

 

The seasons are long, so keep positive and try your best. Ignore the :rak_01: s and just play to have fun and hopefully advance your rating.

 

Good luck.

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Im about 15 matches into my first season, Im currently around 1050, which I hear is incredibly low, but to be expected honestly. I can accept it

But id sorta like to improve? By the end of the session I pretty much enjoyed it overall so I thought I try to see where I can improve on. Im currently rocking my sage healer in these matches and getting advice by ear during these matches (along with being flamed but we dont talk about that)

Im not sure if there are any relevant PvP guides for SWTOR in its current state, but any and all advice would be very much appreciated :rak_03:

 

Mark Biggs, Cease and Krea.

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I agree with all the streamers that have been listed. All of them are good starts.

 

1k-1.2k is a good starting place for new ranked players. I have a couple of new friends who I am helping out right now who are also in that range. Don't worry about elo in your first season. Play for experience: learning your class, learning solo ranked metas, learning other classes, learning strats... ect.

 

I recommend queing as a dps. You will get raged at less. Bad healers are extremely noticeable. Bad dps are less so.

 

Nevertheless, you will get flamed. Expect toxicity. Just don't make the same mistakes over again. Improve. That's all that can be asked. But also listen to the toxicity. Typically there is a reason that you are getting flamed. Don't just ignore it. For example a lot of new players get really defensive when they start getting called bad. Instead, ask what you can do better.

Edited by septru
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I agree with all the streamers that have been listed. All of them are good starts.

 

1k-1.2k is a good starting place for new ranked players. I have a couple of new friends who I am helping out right now who are also in that range. Don't worry about elo in your first season. Play for experience: learning your class, learning solo ranked metas, learning other classes, learning strats... ect.

 

I recommend queing as a dps. You will get raged at less. Bad healers are extremely noticeable. Bad dps are less so.

 

Nevertheless, you will get flamed. Expect toxicity. Just don't make the same mistakes over again. Improve. That's all that can be asked. But also listen to the toxicity. Typically there is a reason that you are getting flamed. Don't just ignore it. For example a lot of new players get really defensive when they start getting called bad. Instead, ask what you can do better.

 

^This

 

I have been only dabbling in ranked the past few seasons. Not good, not bad, just a whole lot of meh. I was able to get a few matches in the other night and did ok.

 

To Septru's point, listen to everything the others have to say. Regardless of how it said, they trying to help you, help them, win. In the past, I used to ignore it.

 

I am going to try to be much more active this season. As I explained to players the other night, I cannot make a dps guardian/jugg work in ranked if I DONT PLAY RANKED. I have to be all in or don't bother with it at all. The other players were receptive and did make suggestions which I appreciated.

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had subbed to this thread in hopes that I would find useful information and ways of learning how to get into those arenas better.

Tried Marauder, basically once u got dmged enough u are dead unless u manage to run away and someone from your team picks up the guy chasing you, otherwise the chaser will just find u way before you leave combat.

Tried Jugg, and jugg is ballz, immortal is boring to play and u have to basically babysit others while also trying to do dmg, but my fav spec for jugg which is Rage is basically denied the pleasure of Ranked because u get insta tunneled and u have no *********** way of staying on the fight, u set up nimble and play carousel like an idiot until u manage to get Enraged Defense back up, u last another 30 seconds (if they are insistent on tunneling u) and u are dead. Only chance is if your team manages to kill someone while you are running around like a fool...

 

My conclusion is simple: Ranked is rubbish. Meta favors certain specs while rendering other specs completely useless, and there's a minority of specs that manages but they have to "not play" to "play" (jugg runing around like an idiot, Marauders hoping that they manage to get out of combat fast enough for recovery ability because they have absolutely no heals), exploiting LOS to the fullest. Couldn't outrun the 300 CC self-healing rolling Concealment OP? Tough luck, our system has computed that you suck as a player, so here lose some points.

Basically for Ranked u either get into the meta classes/specs or you are better off not even touching it.

 

I would appreciate some advice, but talking in-game with other ranked players the conclusion is simple: Don't play Jugg DPS (my current fav. spec is Rage), and for the marauder I am really really confused, I've tried breaking out of combat multiple times, and to me it seems more like a gamble, sometimes I manage, but most of the time I'm stuck in-combat and someone comes chasing me with all my DCDs spent, really have no clue what to do there.

 

There's also the endless stream of infantile behavior from RPvP players constantly trash talking others or you, constantly saying "don't queue, go play regs" as if the freaking regs would help with anything (regs are cheese easy with almost any class or spec, the thing about ranked is that u must know what is "broken" or exploitable or you simply run cheese specs, it's not about skill, just game knowledge, personal experience, and following the meta).

 

Anyway, I see no point in doing ranked other than trying to get some gated cosmetics, which are a *********** pain to get considering how many matches u must play to get any of those, in the end the high toxicity in it and the hard bias over certain classes from Bioware is slowly pushing me towards unsubbing. Today (first day I decided to try ranked) I almost did it, but I'll cool off and decide if this game has anything to offer me other than grief on a global scale, PvE has been subpar, it's hard to get into Story OPS due to everyone exploiting GF instead of using it as it was supposed to, but even doing those (which I did a few times) the real "content" for end-game are the master OPS which u are gated by other players either by them having a fix grp or because u aren't "geared enough". Basically the game is showing that it has nothing to offer because the top gearing one can achieve is gated behind billions of credits or doing both Ranked and Master OPS. I digress. Any tips are welcome, if I am able to play what I want in Ranked and not be subpar I'll give it another go, but if not I'll probably pull my hard earned money from Bioware because I am no masochist to pay for such an unpleasant experience.

 

PS: Forgot to mention the ridiculous Matchmaking that basically gives free wins to people.

Edited by xdjinn
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had subbed to this thread in hopes that I would find useful information and ways of learning how to get into those arenas better.

Tried Marauder, basically once u got dmged enough u are dead unless u manage to run away and someone from your team picks up the guy chasing you, otherwise the chaser will just find u way before you leave combat.

Tried Jugg, and jugg is ballz, immortal is boring to play and u have to basically babysit others while also trying to do dmg, but my fav spec for jugg which is Rage is basically denied the pleasure of Ranked because u get insta tunneled and u have no *********** way of staying on the fight, u set up nimble and play carousel like an idiot until u manage to get Enraged Defense back up, u last another 30 seconds (if they are insistent on tunneling u) and u are dead. Only chance is if your team manages to kill someone while you are running around like a fool...

 

My conclusion is simple: Ranked is rubbish. Meta favors certain specs while rendering other specs completely useless, and there's a minority of specs that manages but they have to "not play" to "play" (jugg runing around like an idiot, Marauders hoping that they manage to get out of combat fast enough for recovery ability because they have absolutely no heals), exploiting LOS to the fullest. Couldn't outrun the 300 CC self-healing rolling Concealment OP? Tough luck, our system has computed that you suck as a player, so here lose some points.

Basically for Ranked u either get into the meta classes/specs or you are better off not even touching it.

 

I would appreciate some advice, but talking in-game with other ranked players the conclusion is simple: Don't play Jugg DPS (my current fav. spec is Rage), and for the marauder I am really really confused, I've tried breaking out of combat multiple times, and to me it seems more like a gamble, sometimes I manage, but most of the time I'm stuck in-combat and someone comes chasing me with all my DCDs spent, really have no clue what to do there.

 

There's also the endless stream of infantile behavior from RPvP players constantly trash talking others or you, constantly saying "don't queue, go play regs" as if the freaking regs would help with anything (regs are cheese easy with almost any class or spec, the thing about ranked is that u must know what is "broken" or exploitable or you simply run cheese specs, it's not about skill, just game knowledge, personal experience, and following the meta).

 

Anyway, I see no point in doing ranked other than trying to get some gated cosmetics, which are a *********** pain to get considering how many matches u must play to get any of those, in the end the high toxicity in it and the hard bias over certain classes from Bioware is slowly pushing me towards unsubbing. Today (first day I decided to try ranked) I almost did it, but I'll cool off and decide if this game has anything to offer me other than grief on a global scale, PvE has been subpar, it's hard to get into Story OPS due to everyone exploiting GF instead of using it as it was supposed to, but even doing those (which I did a few times) the real "content" for end-game are the master OPS which u are gated by other players either by them having a fix grp or because u aren't "geared enough". Basically the game is showing that it has nothing to offer because the top gearing one can achieve is gated behind billions of credits or doing both Ranked and Master OPS. I digress. Any tips are welcome, if I am able to play what I want in Ranked and not be subpar I'll give it another go, but if not I'll probably pull my hard earned money from Bioware because I am no masochist to pay for such an unpleasant experience.

 

PS: Forgot to mention the ridiculous Matchmaking that basically gives free wins to people.

 

Hey..

 

It would be good to know how much PVP experience you have in general and how much unraked have you played compared to arenas , especially ranked ones.

 

If you , let's say , played 85% regs and the remaining 15% was arenas, then that's one of your problems . I was in the same boat more or less. I always played unranked, did pretty well, but when I qued ranked all hell broke lose .

 

In order to become good, you have to first of all stop unranked unless you know it's low population in que and you get some arenas . But you have to que ranked and go through this pain you mentioned here. There are a lot of factors involved in the outcome of your games,: your own performance, who is in your team and in the enemy, what specs are matched together . You should also know how other classes work and how to counter whatever they are doing by being able to watch their buffs .

 

There isn't much advice anyone can give here other than be patient and practice , but I think one of the most important thing is to : STOP queing 2, 3 games and then getting discouraged because you end up losing and feeling miserable. I don't think anyone can become good at something by not failing at it first . So I advise you to not give up and keep practicing . Sadly , yes, you have to pick a meta class/spec unless you are PVP god at some weaker spec . You should play the class/spec you are best at.(whatever it is) Fury marauder is a good start due to good burst and cc immunity . But it's not easy to play . I main a mara and in some situations I feel totally useless . Years ago I was like 800-900 rated, but now I can keep myself around 1200-1300 constantly . I am not thinking of top 3 spots or things like that, I just like competing vs good players . Got a lot of toxicity myself from other players in the past. Some of it was justified but you have ignore it and move on. Focus on your own improvement , which I repeat, will take some time if you are patient enough. LIke I said earlier, many players que up, get some bad games and then get discouraged from queing.

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Today (first day I decided to try ranked) I almost did it, but I'll cool off and decide if this game has anything to offer me other than grief on a global scale, .

 

i love that you jumped into ranked for the first time, got your clock cleaned, and then declared the format unplayable. there's a huge learning curve from regs to ranked.

 

dps jugg are arguably the least viable specs in yolos, but they're far from the only one. most classes only have one viable spec. immortal jugg is BROKEN. I'm sorry that spec bores you. arsenal bores me.

 

mara is finesse vis-a-vis jugg dps, but it's perfectly viable in ranked. you have a slew of defenses and abilities to circumvent CC. but from previous pb interactions with you, I'd say you feel you know them all and they're not good enough, or it's too many buttons to push, and you're squishy af. I know that not to be the case, but I'm not going to debate it with you. as far as getting out of combat, every map has a few places where you can run and hide to heal up. it's ranked, so the competition isn't stupid af. they will hunt you down and cut you off if they can. it's a team game. if your team cannot pressure the others so that they cannot afford to hunt you down, then your team failed. if you pop a cd at the wrong time, you failed. maras have a lot of options, but it's easy to make the wrong one at a given time.

 

I'm going to assume you know to purge with combat stealth and pop transcend immediately. you also have to know where the nearest los hiding place is and calculate what you need to do to get there. but...I've been in ranked on an off for years. it's perfectly doable. maras do it all the time.

 

I cringe when you complain about mara being under-powered or in need of "help" on this board. literal. visceral. cringe.

 

a quick check of the leader board shows a mara far and away above everyone else with 2 more maras/sents in the top 10. going further, the top 10 scores for all classes are in the 1500s. in fact, the lowest class leader scores appear to be for...ops and then mercs. that's right, those annoying, over-used, lolrollers have one of the lowest top scores of any class in s14.

 

by the end of last season, well, by the time I stopped playing last season, yolos were dominated by stealth. not all the time, but there were times at night when there were 3 stealth on each team. after a couple games like that (win or lose), it was enough. time to go do something else. mind you, the same was true of mercs with net. there's nothing anyone can do about 3 nets or a couple of warriors with 6s CC immunity and obfuscate pounding on you. it is, in the end, a team game.

 

as you surmised, yolos is mostly about survival. but being able to dps while practicing survival is important (I never did master that last part).

 

there's much to be desired from the matchmaking for solos. it's pretty good about role balancing, but it's bad about class stacking, and it doesn't make any sort of account for class viability (it just looks at one's elo). honestly, I'm not sure how much effort BW can or should put into the system, given how comparatively small the community is - it's a niche of a niche. but yeah, obviously stricter adherence to role balance and significant consideration to class stacking would be welcomed.

Edited by foxmob
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snip

 

I'll repeat what others said and probably reaffirm a lot of what you observed from playing.

 

Meta is important in solo ranked. Marauders, operatives, assassins, mercs, sorcs are all strong choices. Rage jugg is not. What that said, rage jugg is possible. Just difficult. You need to be very good. I don't recommend it for new players.

 

Don't get discouraged at toxicity. It's a part of the competition. And honestly if someone said "practice in regs" that is more tame than toxic. Next time someone rails at you ask them what you could have done better. For instance I tell people to practice in regs when they are missing a basic and foundational skill like awareness and knowledge of class DCDs.

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in fact, the lowest class leader scores appear to be for...ops and then mercs. that's right, those annoying, over-used, lolrollers have one of the lowest top scores of any class in s14.

 

ya **** those top3 opers. they're all ****.

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Have the right gear. 306 isn't an end onto itself. You need to make sure that your mods, augments, and stim are all making you reach all of your targets for every stat. Don't be the healer who queues in with the wrong alacrity or queues in with 1,500 accuracy or something. :p

 

As a healer, you will be occasionally on teams where three players run 100m in opposite directions and all three still expect you to keep them healed to full. If one of them dies, you will be blamed. Ignore toxic weirdos.

 

Before you step into ranked, make sure you have mastered regs. When you start having those long games that end in 14 million heals or somewhere around there, you're probably ready.

 

Cleanse CC

 

While we're at it, cleanse lots of other things, too.

 

For sorcs, use phase walk to troll. On maps with multiple levels, when you're under siege, you drop down and force the enemies to follow you. Then you phase walk back up and they spend time trying to get back to you while you heal to full.

 

You have time to talk to your team before each round. Use it and tell them what you are going to do.

 

For sorcs, against teams with mercs, you have to resist the urge to stunbreak for anything other than net, unless it's an absolute emergency. If the enemies have a merc, the strategy is always to beat on the sage and then net you to disable barrier/phase walk. If you don't have stunbreak at this time, it's probably the end.

 

For mercs, reactive shield is your bread and butter. Pop it whenever you hit white bar and you can't stopped because of interrupt immunity. For sorcs, same but with polarity shift.

 

For operatives, re-roll to a healer with real defensives

Edited by HaoZhao
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i love that you jumped into ranked for the first time, got your clock cleaned, and then declared the format unplayable. there's a huge learning curve from regs to ranked.

 

dps jugg are arguably the least viable specs in yolos, but they're far from the only one. most classes only have one viable spec. immortal jugg is BROKEN. I'm sorry that spec bores you. arsenal bores me.

 

mara is finesse vis-a-vis jugg dps, but it's perfectly viable in ranked. you have a slew of defenses and abilities to circumvent CC. but from previous pb interactions with you, I'd say you feel you know them all and they're not good enough, or it's too many buttons to push, and you're squishy af. I know that not to be the case, but I'm not going to debate it with you. as far as getting out of combat, every map has a few places where you can run and hide to heal up. it's ranked, so the competition isn't stupid af. they will hunt you down and cut you off if they can. it's a team game. if your team cannot pressure the others so that they cannot afford to hunt you down, then your team failed. if you pop a cd at the wrong time, you failed. maras have a lot of options, but it's easy to make the wrong one at a given time.

 

I'm going to assume you know to purge with combat stealth and pop transcend immediately. you also have to know where the nearest los hiding place is and calculate what you need to do to get there. but...I've been in ranked on an off for years. it's perfectly doable. maras do it all the time.

 

I cringe when you complain about mara being under-powered or in need of "help" on this board. literal. visceral. cringe.

 

a quick check of the leader board shows a mara far and away above everyone else with 2 more maras/sents in the top 10. going further, the top 10 scores for all classes are in the 1500s. in fact, the lowest class leader scores appear to be for...ops and then mercs. that's right, those annoying, over-used, lolrollers have one of the lowest top scores of any class in s14.

 

by the end of last season, well, by the time I stopped playing last season, yolos were dominated by stealth. not all the time, but there were times at night when there were 3 stealth on each team. after a couple games like that (win or lose), it was enough. time to go do something else. mind you, the same was true of mercs with net. there's nothing anyone can do about 3 nets or a couple of warriors with 6s CC immunity and obfuscate pounding on you. it is, in the end, a team game.

 

as you surmised, yolos is mostly about survival. but being able to dps while practicing survival is important (I never did master that last part).

 

there's much to be desired from the matchmaking for solos. it's pretty good about role balancing, but it's bad about class stacking, and it doesn't make any sort of account for class viability (it just looks at one's elo). honestly, I'm not sure how much effort BW can or should put into the system, given how comparatively small the community is - it's a niche of a niche. but yeah, obviously stricter adherence to role balance and significant consideration to class stacking would be welcomed.

 

I know what you are talking about, problem is from the 11 matches I did yesterday with my Mara, I had 3 with team work, won one of those, and they were fun. The rest was just people cursing each other and doing their own thing. Maybe I was just unlucky, but that sums up to what I said to one of the guys in there: Solo feels like a gamble, period.

 

Ty for the input, and no, I don't think I know it all, but you and others constantly assume I don't understand LOS, timing, DCDs, etc. I understand them perfectly, and with the amount of practice I've gotten with Rage (managing very high DPS and very low deaths in regs with it) Fury wasn't hard to perform well, in fact I hardly got any complaints about me during these matches, but the whole finger pointing is just terrifyingly disturbing, I was a CS pro player, 90% of the games where ppl behaved like that was a certain loss, saw it a lot after I quit playing as pro in random MM on CSGO on Global bracket. That behavior is infantile and it causes losses.

 

On the part you agree with me there, I think one of the most bonkers thing that happens is how they managed to match up 2 - 3 or even 4 stealthers against a team with a jugg, 2 maras and a sorc, it's just ludicrous.

 

Btw, another problem I've been facing is serious desync, sometimes abilities will refuse to pop, sometimes I'll get 200k dmg from 1 frame to the next with no chance neither to see the incoming attacks nor react, same happens on attacks quite often, I assume I'm the only one targeting someone on 40%- hp, suddenly the guy suffers insta death. Those are serious issues.

 

I was very pssd yesterday as you can tell, many matches, 70%+ of them with dumb matchmaking, anyone would be furious, specially when you are still learning the ropes. The only mistake I made was not lower graphic settings I'd say.

 

a quick check of the leader board shows a mara far and away above everyone else with 2 more maras/sents in the top 10. going further, the top 10 scores for all classes are in the 1500s. in fact, the lowest class leader scores appear to be for...ops and then mercs. that's right, those annoying, over-used, lolrollers have one of the lowest top scores of any class in s14.

 

You have to remember that classes and ease of use talk louder on lower brackets, the more noobs u are playing (me included) the less likely ppl are to shut down these classes. Yes I know how to shut-down a pesky OP, but on a Mara I have very little CC to do that properly, and I'm usually also getting focused by them, which doesn't help. If heavy CCers in my team fail to CC at all, I'm toast.

 

I'll repeat what others said and probably reaffirm a lot of what you observed from playing.

 

Meta is important in solo ranked. Marauders, operatives, assassins, mercs, sorcs are all strong choices. Rage jugg is not. What that said, rage jugg is possible. Just difficult. You need to be very good. I don't recommend it for new players.

 

Don't get discouraged at toxicity. It's a part of the competition. And honestly if someone said "practice in regs" that is more tame than toxic. Next time someone rails at you ask them what you could have done better. For instance I tell people to practice in regs when they are missing a basic and foundational skill like awareness and knowledge of class DCDs.

 

Thank you for the input, and understanding of my raging vent. I do get that you need to learn your spec well in regs before jumping into Ranked, but that I already did, so it is insulting when you are trying your best on a class that is so easily shut down and depends on your team helping you out. (talking about Rage Jugg).

I do outperform Fury on dps on my Jugg, but surviving is the problem. Saber Ward sucks on Rage, too short, we have no DR DCD at all, so u have to make due with what you get, and in the end Saber Ward becomes your escape skill, you can't use it mid-combat or you'll waste the only thing that allows you to break off. So you have Enr Def, and then u have to survive it's downtime, pretty hard to pull off considering you get zero utility for doing so. Nimble master "works", but for it to be reliable Ward should last at least 5 seconds more or the speed buff from Nimble would need at least 20% more speed. In the end Rage Jugg in Solo Ranked is about watching the Marathon, not quite a PvP

 

Rage Jugg Soundtrack:

 

Btw, I did try to pull off Immortal yestedary on one match, but I can't, I don't like how it plays on Arenas (underwhelming DPS from me) and I still need to learn how to guard swap properly, in a way, it's way too much information to account for, I'd need to make a massive party window to properly keep an eye on teams' HP too, it's bloody awful. The only way for me to perform well on PvP, apparently, is to have a healer in the team, otherwise it's always this little hell. (happened to, all matches where I had a healer I've managed to play really well)

Edited by xdjinn
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The highest parsing spec in the game is Annihilation. The second highest parsing spec is Fury. If you do more DPS as Rage than Fury, it's because you were doing something wrong as Fury (vulkk guides are trash BTW).

 

Rage being bad in PVP isn't your fault but you do have to accept it. In 6.0, everything got juiced up to the extreme but Rage was one of the specs that just got left behind. It's a bottom tier spec, all of the way down there with Hatred. The main issue here is that BioWare has completely forgotten what Rage spec is supposed to be. Immortal is supposed to be the defensive spec. Vengeance is supposed to be the offensive spec. Rage is supposed to be the balance between offence and defence but it is actually one of the squishiest specs in the entire game. Shi-cho form is supposed to be the balanced form. Rage needs significant defence buffs and BioWare has ignored all criticisms about this issue for over half a decade.

Edited by HaoZhao
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Rage being bad in PVP isn't your fault but you do have to accept it. In 6.0, everything got juiced up to the extreme but Rage was one of the specs that just got left behind. It's a bottom tier spec, all of the way down there with Hatred. The main issue here is that BioWare has completely forgotten what Rage spec is supposed to be. Immortal is supposed to be the defensive spec. Vengeance is supposed to be the offensive spec. Rage is supposed to be the balance between offence and defence but it is actually one of the squishiest specs in the entire game. Shi-cho form is supposed to be the balanced form. Rage needs significant defence buffs and BioWare has ignored all criticisms about this issue for over half a decade.

 

eh. juggs are tricky. rage juggs (and skank tanks) run amuck in regs. honestly, playing rage is the 2nd easiest dps in the game to playing arsenal (which is prolly why I have as many juggs as mercs. every time I rolled on a new server before mergers, the first toons I started were mercs, PTs, and juggs!).

 

anyway...there isn't anything actually wrong with rage. making them tankier is a huge mistake, imo (as in a new dcd). the problem they have is being controlled and lack of escapes. personally, I hate the idea of giving juggs an escape. it's just completely antithetical to the class, imo. if they could do their damage before they expire, they'd be fine. kinda like PT with no guard/heals to prop them up (although not the broken burst).

Edited by foxmob
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Thank you for the input, and understanding of my raging vent. I do get that you need to learn your spec well in regs before jumping into Ranked, but that I already did, so it is insulting when you are trying your best on a class that is so easily shut down and depends on your team helping you out. (talking about Rage Jugg).

I do outperform Fury on dps on my Jugg, but surviving is the problem. Saber Ward sucks on Rage, too short, we have no DR DCD at all, so u have to make due with what you get, and in the end Saber Ward becomes your escape skill, you can't use it mid-combat or you'll waste the only thing that allows you to break off. So you have Enr Def, and then u have to survive it's downtime, pretty hard to pull off considering you get zero utility for doing so. Nimble master "works", but for it to be reliable Ward should last at least 5 seconds more or the speed buff from Nimble would need at least 20% more speed. In the end Rage Jugg in Solo Ranked is about watching the Marathon, not quite a PvP

 

What server do you play on? If you play on SF there is a chance I might have seen you.

 

It seems like, from what you are describing, you are doing everything right. Nimble Master is the way to go in a lot of the games. But since dps jugg is so incredibly weak, one small mistake on any of the small details might get you killed. So it's hard to say what you could be doing better without seeing you play.

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The highest parsing spec in the game is Annihilation. The second highest parsing spec is Fury. If you do more DPS as Rage than Fury, it's because you were doing something wrong as Fury (vulkk guides are trash BTW).

 

Rage being bad in PVP isn't your fault but you do have to accept it. In 6.0, everything got juiced up to the extreme but Rage was one of the specs that just got left behind. It's a bottom tier spec, all of the way down there with Hatred. The main issue here is that BioWare has completely forgotten what Rage spec is supposed to be. Immortal is supposed to be the defensive spec. Vengeance is supposed to be the offensive spec. Rage is supposed to be the balance between offence and defence but it is actually one of the squishiest specs in the entire game. Shi-cho form is supposed to be the balanced form. Rage needs significant defence buffs and BioWare has ignored all criticisms about this issue for over half a decade.

 

I think you are onto something there... Could work.

 

eh. juggs are tricky. rage juggs (and skank tanks) run amuck in regs. honestly, playing rage is the 2nd easiest dps in the game to playing arsenal (which is prolly why I have as many juggs as mercs. every time I rolled on a new server before mergers, the first toons I started were mercs, PTs, and juggs!).

 

anyway...there isn't anything actually wrong with rage. making them tankier is a huge mistake, imo (as in a new dcd). the problem they have is being controlled and lack of escapes. personally, I hate the idea of giving juggs an escape. it's just completely antithetical to the class, imo. if they could do their damage before they expire, they'd be fine. kinda like PT with no guard/heals to prop them up (although not the broken burst).

 

that would make Veng pointless wouldn't it? What Hao Zhao said actually makes a lot of sense, in Rage Jugg I feel that role whne PvEing, I can off-tank, and if I'm playing right I can surpass dmg from most DPS specs, to a point where I keep stealing boss aggro constantly.

In PvP, your suggestion would either make Rage burst dmg absurd (if they buff it properly, instead of doing 50k crits I'd be doing 70k+ crits), that means that without DCD or healing I'd be killing sorcs with 3 abilities (no skill in that at all, just brainless button mashing). If they instead add defensives, either by increasing escape-ability or by buffing DCDs, or even by adding an extra DCD, Jugg would fill it's role. You call it broken because you are probably stagnated into the current META, comfortable with it, but in a way that's how it was supposed to go, though if BW gives Rage attention, they'd need to fix all specs so to speak, like putting Madness back into the game along Carnage (of the ones I know of), I bet there are more for others classes that are completely out of the game, but those two are the ones I've experienced first hand.

 

Maybe Zhao's suggestion is the only way, and as always it would create general outrage. I don't see Rage as "easy" spec, I'd argue Conc Ops are much easier (I know for i have one, but i strongly hate playing it), Sorcs are easier too (also have one). Rage is easier than Immortal? Absolutely, but than again it's not the easiest class to perform well.... In regs I manage to get toe to toe total dmg with Fury maras when all other Rage juggs I've seen playing can't do squat.

 

My impression is that if, and only IF, I play Group Ranked, I'd probably do very well, maybe even be considered good, because all matches that I got the full trio (tank+healer+2dps) I've done a good job.

 

What server do you play on? If you play on SF there is a chance I might have seen you.

 

It seems like, from what you are describing, you are doing everything right. Nimble Master is the way to go in a lot of the games. But since dps jugg is so incredibly weak, one small mistake on any of the small details might get you killed. So it's hard to say what you could be doing better without seeing you play.

 

That was me certainly. Same toon name as my forum tag (with some weirdness due to "name being already used). Any help is appreciated, although I'm very close to giving up on ranked altogether. I don't want to play a class that I don't feel it's playstyle pleases me, tried that (as I've said, with Conc OP, and Lightning Sorc, also tried Merc and Assassin), neither of those classes talk to me well, can I learn them? Absolutely! Problem lies with their playstyles, which I strongly dislike.

Edited by xdjinn
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the thematic differences were:

  1. burst (rage) vs. dot (veng)
  2. aoe (rage) vs. st (veng, but I guess spread was possible and better than IO lul)

 

however, rage/fury was tweaked to be more effective ST once the smash monkey era came to an end.

 

afaik, veng has always been tankier than rage b/c they weren't bursty. they had more cc immunity for the same reason. rage got a huge boost when BW opened up the skills trees for all 3 specs to each other.

Edited by foxmob
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That was me certainly. Same toon name as my forum tag (with some weirdness due to "name being already used). Any help is appreciated, although I'm very close to giving up on ranked altogether.

 

I can't say that I've seen you. Or if I did, I can't remember. I'll try to keep an eye out and try to offer tips.

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the thematic differences were:

  1. burst (rage) vs. dot (veng)
  2. aoe (rage) vs. st (veng, but I guess spread was possible and better than IO lul)

 

however, rage/fury was tweaked to be more effective ST once the smash monkey era came to an end.

 

afaik, veng has always been tankier than rage b/c they weren't bursty. they had more cc immunity for the same reason. rage got a huge boost when BW opened up the skills trees for all 3 specs to each other.

 

Which makes no sense. Considering they are DoT classes, it would be okay if they had less CC immunity than a burst one, because u could open by stacking DoTs and even while stunned u'd be ravaging the opponets HP, no need for input is the whole idea behind DoTs. I think that my argument is that, DoTs should kill without hitting much, while Rage should be more durable because without direct player input there's absolutely zero dmg...

 

That was something I thought about tbh, switching to Veng, exploiting it's DoTs while running out LOS, could work, not entirely sure for I haven't tried it yet. Or spec Annihi Mara and abuse Force Camouflage doing timed hit-n-run. Have no idea if it works on the current meta, but in theory it could.

 

Either way, that means abandoning the spec I'm currently into, which to me is disappointing, in fact might be enough for me to call it quits on the game again.

 

So yeah, I think that either they boost Rage dmg, which will break the game, or make them harder to be tunneled, there's no way around it. As for Fury, it seems to be doing well, but it's exceptionally hard to play (I've tried), my problem with Fury is resource management.

Edited by xdjinn
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So yeah, I think that either they boost Rage dmg, which will break the game, or make them harder to be tunneled, there's no way around it. As for Fury, it seems to be doing well, but it's exceptionally hard to play (I've tried), my problem with Fury is resource management.

 

ok. I'm a bad sent/mara. but that's just b/c I'm bad with muscle memory. I'm playing it in regs and trying to put together a fearless set (just got my 4s, so I'm wearing it instead of 6pcs victor for the first time). anyway...I know how and why and what to do with fury, and is very good.

 

you should not ever have resource management issues with fury. you almost never need to zealous strike if you play it right. you should take the 30s transcend so that stacks are used exclusively for zen. between the normal building of stacks through your regular attacks and the automatic full stacks you get every (1min? 2min?) you shouldn't even need to think about generating focus/rage.

 

especially with bladestorm generating it, getting it back with dispatch, and generating it with leap (you'll want to take the talent to use dispatch on obfuscated targets and buff it with clarity). you might very rarely need to zealous or fill a gcd with auto attack. I understand that sent/mara is more difficult and there are a lot more buttons to push on a regular basis vs. rage jugg (bear in mind rage jugg is 2nd only to arsenal in simplicity). but there's always something meaningful to attack with, and it's never more than 1 gcd away.

 

edit: re-veng immunities, they needed the immunities to CC more b/c it took them time to ramp up damage. the bursty rage spec has always had burst dmg on hand immediately (much like AP PT in the current meta).

Edited by foxmob
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ok. I'm a bad sent/mara. but that's just b/c I'm bad with muscle memory. I'm playing it in regs and trying to put together a fearless set (just got my 4s, so I'm wearing it instead of 6pcs victor for the first time). anyway...I know how and why and what to do with fury, and is very good.

 

you should not ever have resource management issues with fury. you almost never need to zealous strike if you play it right. you should take the 30s transcend so that stacks are used exclusively for zen. between the normal building of stacks through your regular attacks and the automatic full stacks you get every (1min? 2min?) you shouldn't even need to think about generating focus/rage.

 

especially with bladestorm generating it, getting it back with dispatch, and generating it with leap (you'll want to take the talent to use dispatch on obfuscated targets and buff it with clarity). you might very rarely need to zealous or fill a gcd with auto attack. I understand that sent/mara is more difficult and there are a lot more buttons to push on a regular basis vs. rage jugg (bear in mind rage jugg is 2nd only to arsenal in simplicity). but there's always something meaningful to attack with, and it's never more than 1 gcd away.

 

edit: re-veng immunities, they needed the immunities to CC more b/c it took them time to ramp up damage. the bursty rage spec has always had burst dmg on hand immediately (much like AP PT in the current meta).

 

Even if I decide to unsub, I still have around 14 days left before the recurring kicks, I'll try to learn marauder better and see what the fuzz is about. I mean, I didn't like it much, but I guess it's better than being a punching-bag with Jugg, or being forced to tank (S-level hard) when I barely have patience to learn new specs.

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