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Apex update

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Prog's Avatar


Prog
04.30.2021 , 06:21 AM | #41
I am happy the kiting strat is dead good work Bioware! I must say that watching some stream with boss on 30 stacks bombarding the s*** out of main tank and pushing him just 1m forward really looks amazing. Reminds me of wiping on Izax and then your body is pulled back inside blue shield. But in reverse. Looks fun KEKW

In my honest opinion, kiting strat was cool for group. Regular non-kiting strat can be fun for DPS who does adds, but for those who tunnel boss its more boring&punishing than Styrak. Such fights are really stressful and not fun. DPS are having same set of mechanics from the start till the end of the fight. Kiting made it more fun (and gave you more numbers) hence it was so loved by the people.

But yeah kiting indeed made boss significantly easier than it originally was designed, hence I am happy it is gone. And just like many others, I also wonder why the boss gets changed ~9 month after it made it to live, buuuut better late than never as someone has already put it

Quote: Originally Posted by nobodyseeyou View Post
Well, "thank you" dude. I am cursing that day when i decided to base our prog on your kiting strats. You and Jaydenz youtube video should have add a Note that this strat MIGHT be fixed soon as a bug/exploit Literally WASTED few months to progging it like that and we didnt killed it. Now we have TO REVERSE it Thank you
Feel free to contact me for Apex coaching. Helped couple teams already on regular non-kiting strat.
Always available on discord: nom#7342

Nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom. Nom.

csilvajonas's Avatar


csilvajonas
04.30.2021 , 06:31 AM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by AwesomeTacoCat View Post
Trivialized is a very interesting word choice. Do you think you could provide a number of players whoíve killed Apex even with the kite strategy in the game for 10 months? My guess is that itís less than 200. My guess is about 4-5 teams per server (I think mine has 5). And a number of players are on multiple teams. So...I think around 150-200 players. Am I arguing that kite strat didnít make the fight easier? No, for sure it did. But not sufficiently ďtrivialĒ that everyone is out there clearing apex. Itís still pretty much only top tier raid teams that even had a prayer of clearing apex with kite strat. Is it really necessary to make a fight harder that only 200 people have cleared in 10 months?
The things you're saying make a lot of sense. I hope this thread actually turns into an oportunity for the raiding community to speak about the things we're not happy on this game. I don't think they will go back with the apex update, but there are other things they can do imo to help us.
1 - make at least 1 new operation per year, 2 would be better. We do get bored of doing the same thing over and over and this could solve this problem. I see players who only play the game for raids and they sub when a new one comes and unsub when they get bored of it (which would be a 6 months window). The last ops we got is about to complete 2 years old.
2 - fix old ops bugs
3 - stop acting as if we were all billionaires in game or we all play pvp. This was a problem since 248 augments came in 5.x, doing 1 nim operation you could get 5 mats and split them between 8 players, you would get 1 or 2. But you could farm team ranked and get 6 mats with each character you had. I don't think pvp players were happy with team ranked farmers. And now you just make a new augment that is just making some people rich. So far i've only seen one player using a full augmented character with the new augments. Is this what devs intended? For real, why don't you just give us a weekly for completing 5 ops and give the mats? It's like you want pve players to play pvp. Well, most of us don't want to.
4 - Again, buff story mode and veteran mode. People used to say that if you've completed Temple of Sacrifice in veteran mode you were ready to start master mode operations. That's so not true now. Temple of Sacrifice is such a joke you can easily do it with a dwt and 1t, is this how you intended the fight to be? In fact, most veteran modes can be done this way, some of them you can even do with 1 healer. I'll ask again, is this how the fight was intended to be? I don't think so, as they used to be much harder before.
This apex update doesn't really feel like devs care about the raiding community, that's what i'm seeing on discord channels, even if people agree with it, there is a feeling that they don't really care and this decision to update apex was arbitrary, you pick one thing to update, but leave 90% of the problems there

DiamondNemke's Avatar


DiamondNemke
04.30.2021 , 05:06 PM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by AwesomeTacoCat View Post
Trivialized is a very interesting word choice. Do you think you could provide a number of players whoíve killed Apex even with the kite strategy in the game for 10 months? My guess is that itís less than 200. My guess is about 4-5 teams per server (I think mine has 5). And a number of players are on multiple teams. So...I think around 150-200 players. Am I arguing that kite strat didnít make the fight easier? No, for sure it did. But not sufficiently ďtrivialĒ that everyone is out there clearing apex. Itís still pretty much only top tier raid teams that even had a prayer of clearing apex with kite strat. Is it really necessary to make a fight harder that only 200 people have cleared in 10 months?
Exactly what this guy says. The fight is not trivialized at all. It is still tricky to do it because you need to have a specific team composition and still follow 80% of other mechanics, to adjust, as some videos show.
Do I think it is wrong? Absolutely not. I killed the boss with normal tactics, and I say this. 99% of other bosses have some cheese mechanic. Is it wrong? No because you are using your class in a creative way to make the fight easier. Nothing wrong with that. You can still do it normally if you want, but finding new ways to deal with the boss is part of the fun.
The bigger issue is that some opses are so bugged that you can't even play them properly when they decide to bug on you. Some examples are:

- TfB tentacles in 2nd phase not showing slam animation (just float in the air)
- Styrak manifestations desyncing all the time, killing the group even if they seem far enough.
- Styrak ghosts bugging, not giving knockback, staying alive after wipe, slowing down people who try to do timed run.
- Invisible Tyrans
- Calphayus constaly murdering people after the wipe, slowing down timed runs
- Completely unbalanced 16m Veteran and Master Modes of some operations, such as Dxun and EC
- Underlurker desyncing most of the time, murdering people because they didn't press space to jump, and sometimes even if they did

The list can go on and on with the amount of bugs there are, and you act when someone finds a very legit way to kill the boss in a different and more creative way than you intended. Yes it is easier, but still not easy to do at all. There need to be more washes, more stims, which still require teams to follow the tactics. Just because people don't use flairs, doesn't mean the boss is trivial to kill. Far from it.
I mean I don't personally care about Apex in general, it is by far, one of the worst bosses in the game, but this update is just ridiculous.
It would be better if you focused your efforts to fixing gamebreaking bugs in other opses, rather than doing this. But, that's just my opinion as an active player.

sayakamikis's Avatar


sayakamikis
04.30.2021 , 05:49 PM | #44
jota is right!!!! #freejota #jotadidnothingwrong #katehasneverkilledrevanwomenomg

AlexIonutPlay's Avatar


AlexIonutPlay
04.30.2021 , 09:21 PM | #45
Just be more creative and find another way KekW
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Nee-Elder's Avatar


Nee-Elder
04.30.2021 , 10:11 PM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by DiamondNemke View Post
- Underlurker desyncing most of the time, murdering people because they didn't press space to jump, and sometimes even if they did
.
ugh QFE ^ ... i often wonder if i'll ever clear the 16m verson cheevo sometime between now & end of SWTOR

Quote: Originally Posted by AlexIonutPlay View Post
Just be more creative and find another way
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csilvajonas's Avatar


csilvajonas
05.01.2021 , 07:09 AM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by AlexIonutPlay View Post
Just be more creative and find another way KekW
Well, what bioware just did is sending us the msg that if we find another way, we'll have to be careful not to make the fight easier. Is it even worth it finding new way of doing ops now? We can try, but we may end up hurting bioware's feelings cause we're not doing things as they intended. It's an update that just seems like they're pretending to care about raiding, I'll believe them when they start fixing what is broken for a long time now, when they scale everything to lvl 75 and stop making augments and crafting materials just to make some players rich, when they start releasing at least one new operation each year (and stop making trash operations like Dxun, its plot is just Jurassic Park with lightsabers, when star wars has such a vast lore). Even though this thread started with me complaining about the Apex update, i don't like dxun. I care about what they're doing with the raiding community, with prioritizing an update when we still have bugs/desyncs that have been there since day 1 on some ops, some great ops, much better than dxun and all of a sudden dxun gets an update, almost a year after its release and the question they will probably never answer is: why not fix the rest? They can blame the pandemic and it would make sense, except we've had those problems since before. So what is the excuse? Also, why they insist on making boring fights like Apex? It's 10 minutes of doing the same thing over and over. Is it even the same team who did Revan? They do make some masterpieces, but wth happens sometimes? At least with the kiting strategy the fight was not so boring.

Rion_Starkiller's Avatar


Rion_Starkiller
05.01.2021 , 08:42 AM | #48
IDK what you guys are smoking if you think the devs are going to go back and remove cheeses/kiting/etc from old operations. They can barely churn out one raid every 2 years. The only reason Dxun is being fixed is because it is "current" content -- and was created by the current dev team.

If the devs are worried about bugs/exploits/unintendeds in raids, they could go back to the Gods model and release one boss at a time.
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8 pugs and a grophet can i borrow a stim?
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Opiklo's Avatar


Opiklo
05.01.2021 , 09:57 AM | #49
Quote: Originally Posted by DiamondNemke View Post
- Underlurker desyncing most of the time, murdering people because they didn't press space to jump, and sometimes even if they did
jumping is the worst you can do. its a half circle over the cross. if you jump you can miss it.
and also its mostly the tanks fault if it desyncs.
dont run to it.. let it come to you.

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AlexIonutPlay's Avatar


AlexIonutPlay
05.01.2021 , 01:45 PM | #50
Quote: Originally Posted by csilvajonas View Post
Well, what bioware just did is sending us the msg that if we find another way, we'll have to be careful not to make the fight easier. Is it even worth it finding new way of doing ops now? We can try, but we may end up hurting bioware's feelings cause we're not doing things as they intended. It's an update that just seems like they're pretending to care about raiding, I'll believe them when they start fixing what is broken for a long time now, when they scale everything to lvl 75 and stop making augments and crafting materials just to make some players rich, when they start releasing at least one new operation each year (and stop making trash operations like Dxun, its plot is just Jurassic Park with lightsabers, when star wars has such a vast lore). Even though this thread started with me complaining about the Apex update, i don't like dxun. I care about what they're doing with the raiding community, with prioritizing an update when we still have bugs/desyncs that have been there since day 1 on some ops, some great ops, much better than dxun and all of a sudden dxun gets an update, almost a year after its release and the question they will probably never answer is: why not fix the rest? They can blame the pandemic and it would make sense, except we've had those problems since before. So what is the excuse? Also, why they insist on making boring fights like Apex? It's 10 minutes of doing the same thing over and over. Is it even the same team who did Revan? They do make some masterpieces, but wth happens sometimes? At least with the kiting strategy the fight was not so boring.
In case you people didn't notice, the boss had a mechanic in burn to avoid kiting, they just added a new one for the entire fight. For a nightmare/master mode fight, you need to make some dps/healing checks and have some brain to follow some mechanics and make your own strat, especially for last boss, making/using flares and keeping track of Darkness Overdrive is also part of the fight. You are telling me that the fight is not boring with kiting strat, and its boring when you are doing mechanics, ok, seems logic.

Everybody comes here with random things like, why u changed this instead of that, how about you ask the devs when are they gonna change this and that as well instead of asking why they changed this now.
When people bug the timer they are also creative I guess and game is not boring anymore.
Darth Malgus
∂█≣ịδ‾▩=[█|▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀)
World Second Slayer of the Machine Gods

Top 3 Sith Juggernaut SEASON 13
Top 3 Jedi Guardian SEASON 13

World First Izax HM
World First Apex Vanguard HM

PTS CHEATER