Sleep Dart is not removed. Good. Now, could you, please, bring back Overload Shot? While some claim it's useless for Concealment, it has a great value for Lethality/Medicine similar to Frag Grenade. Both were in the original Op kit forever. Both abilites are there to quickly dispatch weak targets, when using the standart DOT rotation is simply not worth it(Leth) or when Shiv/Stab is not enough(Med). Overload Shot is spammable and covers the lack of key abilities when lvling, which is crucial since it takes ages to get them. With utility it was also fun and handy in PvP. Both Frag Grenade and Overload Shot should stay intact unless far greater changes are made to the kit, leaving those useless.

 

P.S. Frankly I don't understand why there is no some kind of short article with PTS changes including Dev Team comments on each point explaining their position. It would eliminate any misunderstanding or pointless criticism like it happened to Sleep Dart. Right now there are so many unanswered questions about missing skills/passives and overall visage of each spec in 7.0.

As a longtime concealment main (in PvE, not a PvP fan), I really liked the changes. I know there is some more tweaking to be done, but it feels to me like a positive change. I like the faster access to stim boost via cool down reduction. I am interested to see how this interacts with new(?) set bonuses. I think the overall feel of the class trends a little more towards lightning sorc's polarity shift, but I like that a lot; it makes the class feel more burst-y than it did before.

 

The major negative that I see with this change (like most have been saying) is the loss of available DCDs. While I am a fan of removing ability bloat, I think that picking between DCDs removes some of the recovery/survival options when something goes wrong in a raid. I guess you could just say git gud 4head, don't make mistakes, but often DCDs allow for mistakes to be recovered from when they inevitably do happen. The other change I am not a fan of is the removal of the threat drop ability; with such a burst spec, it is easy to rip aggro off the tank early in the pull before the stealth out comes in the rotation.

 

Final score: overall feel is a big improvement, I like the feeling it gives. Loss of some DCDs and threat drop sucks. 7/10. Looking forward to future tweaks to the class!

This will be exlusively aimed at Medicine Operative, as I very rarely play DPS operatives specs and from an endgame PvE perspective as well. Overall the changes seem fine, the important healing abilities are still there, and we even get some shiny new passives to play around with. I'm going tier by tier:

 

Level 15

 

 

Level 20

 

Level 30

 

 

Level 35

 

 

Level 50

 

 

 

Level 60

 

 

 

Level 70

 

 

 

Level 80

 

 

 

In conclusion the changes are all right for me. I'm a bit confused as to why we're getting an AoE Kolto Injection, this seems pointless to a class already so powerful in AoE heals. There are very few things missing that I really care about. I'm only very much going to miss the heal over time effect on Kolto Infusion that you could spec into (although I believe many people passed on this utility I religiously held to it), as well as the instant 2 stacks of Kolto Probes which was useful if I forgot to keep up my Probes on the target.

I am very pleased by the new passives aimed at improving our ability to handle burst though. Giving tanks 5% extra DR when big hits are coming up seems very useful indeed, lessening the need for single target burst when you can predict it. A similar thing for Nano Mark which can see you give a player a massive 20% increased healing received for 9 seconds. Though it has strong competition from the Stim Boost cooldown reducing talent. Of course the 15% increased healing done during Stim Boost deserves a shout-out as well, making our burst cooldown even burstier.

Edited August 29, 2021 by AdjeYo

Impressions of Operative Medicine 7.0

I did several missions on Onderon. I selected abilities geared toward healing, thus my healer had no stuns (selecting hps over stuns) and severely restricted dps relative to live (due to loss of Overload Shot and Sever Tendon). Of course, we have to factor in that PTS is 270 gear vs 360 live. Also, my comp was 11 vs 50 live. On live the missions are very quick with my healer doing more damage than my 50 comp. On PTS it felt more like the old SWG combat medic. If my healer did no damage and just healed the comp, it was a slow but predictable win against normal mobs and gold star mobs. If my healer opened with Backstab then she quickly drew threat and spent the rest of the fight furiously self-healing but was able to keep up while the comp finished the kills.

 

Extrapolating to group content, its likely Operative Medicine will spend a significant portion of its healing on self healing to stay alive. On live, Operative Medicine rarely needs to self heal beyond its AOE Kolto Waves. The loss of Countermeasures, Debilitate, Tactical Overdrive and Flash Bag make this a very squishy feeling build. Three of those can be selected but at a heavy loss of hps.

 

Extrapolating to PVP, Operative Medicine feels like it would be much more vulnerable than on live. The Concealment Operative appears to retain the core dps rotation while losing defensives and non core dps abilities. If that pattern holds up with other dps classes, then fights will be dps alpha driven with healers the prime target. Holotraverse will become vital to escape, reducing hps while seeking self preservation.

Impressions of Operative Concealment 7.0

I went marauding with my Concealment Operative. It felt more or less like live until I got in too deep. I choose abilities to max dps. My comp was lvl 11 set to heals. When I started an attack with Backstab on a standard mob, the rotation felt familiar to live and the kill was quick. The comp easily kept up with the minor damage I took. Similar situation with two mobs. So, I started aggroing 5. The comp could not keep up healing the damage and my agent's off-heal didn't help. My muscle memory went to the Countermeasures key instead of the Cloaking Screen. Too late.

 

My lesson is that group PVE will change a lot from live. On live, DCDs allow a certain abandonment by the dps. Between their own defensives and the healers, there is little risk. That seems ready to change. Group planning will become necessary again and PUGs are likely going to be less successful. Even story mode is likely to be affected by the potential for mobs to overrun the healing potential of the group's combined DCDs and healers. A more conservative play style will likely evolve.

 

Extrapolating to PVP, I think the lack of DCDs moves us in the opposite direction. Alpha dps to overcome the opposite side defense quickly seems more likely to win.

 

...

 

Continuing for leth, defensively its pretty much dead on arrival. Unlike concealment, which has immunity roll (on GCD) and laceration DR utility (off GCD), lethality has nearly nothing off GCD. Especially with AOE DR removed from operative in general, I can't really see lethality being very raid viable. Currently, classes that already lack AOE DR are disliked in raiding, and with the removal of Revitalizers, the only off GCD defensives are really shield probe and evasion, which is looking real grim for PVE.

 

...

 

TLDR; reconsider Revitalizers for exclusively lethality ops, or some kind of passive defense for lethality. Med looks unchanged, and Concealment is getting some passive DR, still has roll immunity, and top tier dmg.

 

Medicine also doesn't have revitalizers as far as I can tell. That's pretty scary for raiding. Revitalizers was basically the only real defensive op heals had, and they're already quite squishy. I suppose the idea is to force them to rely on teammates for protection? That kinda blows tbh.

Some things I like, some things I don’t.

UI:

Ability tree:

• Icons are small for the window they are in, need to be scaled up 10-20%
  
• Some annotations will be helpful as well. Auto-granted column vs options
  

 

The optional stuff (where you have to choose): Have to say I’m getting mixed signal of what these ‘options’ are supposed to be? At some levels (15 and 30) we choose between 1 of 3 “utilities” that boost a previous ability in 1 of 3 ways. At other levels (20 & 35) we have to choose between one ability versus two utilities. For other levels it’s a choice between 3 unrelated utilities or 3 abilities.

 

I do like that there is no COMMIT or RESET buttons where the whole tree or utility set has to be redone, that you can basically change things on the fly. Well, almost, I assume you won’t be able to change while in combat.

 

I do like when one set of choices all benefit one ability (levels 10/15 and 25/30).

Or having a set of choices be all ‘passive’ stuff or utilities. Options we can set and forget for most players.

 

What I do not like is having to choose between an ability and a utility. Give me the ability or don’t.

 

Take Lethality Operative level 35. I want all three options all the time. Tactical Stims is great for starting a fight to immediately max out TA at the start. Tactical Overdrive is useful in longer fights (thinking operation bosses), do I use it much, no, but it does get used. Then there is Tactical Offense, who does not want an extra 5% bonus damage/healing?

 

I honestly prefer the current setup of a tree with a set of abilities and pre-defined utilities with a set of optional utilities over the new mix of choosing between abilities and utilities.

 

Where the proposed system is going to become problematic is in group content. Especially operations where having those seldom used abilities can be wipe savers. While select utilities can mean the difference between beating a DPS check or failing it.

 

Lastly, why are new active and passive abilities granted only at 5 level increments? Ever since Beta new abilities were granted every level till about level 10 before the rate of new abilities started slowing. By locking new abilities to 5 level increments you’re forcing yourselves into a corner where we as players have to choose between these abilities and utilities.

 

I understand the desire to simplify some things, but you are going the wrong way.

 

Recommendations:

 

When 7.0 was announced we were promised the ability to play the way we want, PTs with blaster rifles and assault cannons; agents with dual pistols and assault cannons. This is not what we are getting.

 

To deliver on your promise you are going about it the wrong way.

For agents and smugglers (mirror classes), then mix it up between the mirror classes. For Lethality Operative/Ruffian Smuggler I recommend the following:

• Merge Shrap Bomb and Corrosive Grenade. Get rid of one, keep the other, or come up with something different altogether. Same goes for Scamper and Exfiltrate.
  
• Bushwack and Toxic Haze; here is something I would actually enjoy having a choice, let us choose one active ability or the other that do the same thing.
  

 

I’m sure there are other abilities that could be merged or choices given, but this is getting long I’m getting tired.

 

I’m looking forward to seeing BH and Trooper, I really want to see a blaster rifle yielding Pyrotech.

I'm going to nitpick this: Concealment's Crippling throw talent always uses the throw animation, and never uses the slice animation. Could we make this ability use the melee animation in melee range? I'm reminded of: Hew/Dispatch's melee animation vs its throw animation -- and also the utility where the Mara Deadly Throw was worked into Leg slash.

 

I suppose to be consistent with how the Mara/Sentinel Utility was, "Crippling Throw" wouldn't be a new ability, but merely, "Increases the range of crippling slice to 10m" and it's still called crippling slice.

Operative on pts looks like meta class.

Concealment with 10s CR on Stim Boost using laceration is really too much.

Medicine having heavy AoE heals is fine, but they should be reduced, because as of now, one operative healer can manage to keep alive whole group with few abilities.

Operative on pts looks like meta class.

Concealment with 10s CR on Stim Boost using laceration is really too much.

Medicine having heavy AoE heals is fine, but they should be reduced, because as of now, one operative healer can manage to keep alive whole group with few abilities.

 

 

Operatives definitely aren't as bad as how some of the other classes have gotten so far for sure, as with the 10s CR on stim boost, its not bad considering they would need to take the other passive for even quicker cd + making stim boost a root break. Now operatives will have to choose between using stim boost as a root break/saving it for root break purposes or using it as a TA and Offensive ability. Medicine heals haven't tried yet but you have to realize with ability pruning for all classes and a lot losing out on dcds, every class will not have as many dcds or dmg reduction and movespeed as they do now which will allow them to die faster i'm assuming

Query when you do the Merc changes. Can you please take away Kolto Shot and let Mercs use the pre 3.0 ability that did the heal with the same animation from 2.0? Thanks....

Query when you do the Merc changes. Can you please take away Kolto Shot and let Mercs use the pre 3.0 ability that did the heal with the same animation from 2.0? Thanks....

Given early changes here, be careful what you wish for, or you're going to end up with the first half of that ("Kolto shot has been removed"), but not the second.

so i decided to start with a level 1 toon to try it out and with no other skills usable till lvl 10 i cant even kill the first major boss at champion level let alone barely kill 2 weak droids with a strong droid idk abut this setup for newcomers this was on op that i played so far a thumbs down

so i decided to start with a level 1 toon to try it out and with no other skills usable till lvl 10 i cant even kill the first major boss at champion level let alone barely kill 2 weak droids with a strong droid idk abut this setup for newcomers this was on op that i played so far a thumbs down

 

This was by designed. You're meant to follow the instructions in the sticky to get all the abilities. Otherwise, you can't get them, unless you (for whatever reason) level to 75. Its a test for the new skill tree/system and not anything else.

 

As for my feedback:

 

The changes are good. They change nothing about how I play. Unlike others in the thread, I don't mind a choice between a stun and a threat dump. Just keep the free switch and it's fine.

 

I only use Debilitate when in pvp, never in pve, so the choice for that is fine. The cd reduction to Stim Boost per use of Massacre is great.

 

Edit: I can only test Concealment, since I would need a level 50 comp to test out healing (I use a tank comp on healers)

Edited September 5, 2021 by captianpenpen

Could somebody please tell me how many hotkeys will I free up for a Concealment Op?

Could somebody please tell me how many hotkeys will I free up for a Concealment Op?

 

depending on what you choose more less 4-5 keys

Could somebody please tell me how many hotkeys will I free up for a Concealment Op?

 

That's tough to say. I use q,e, r, t, f, z, and x. Since Debilitate is n option (which I hope it stays as one. Makes my setup for pve better, but it is used in pvp) and Countermesures is bundled with Evasion, I would say two, if we are the same in hotkey setup.

Could somebody please tell me how many hotkeys will I free up for a Concealment Op?

Overload Shot, Sever Tendon, Countermeasures (CD), Tactical superiority (CD) gone. +4 slots. Debilitate or Flashbang optional, so up to +2. Tactical Overdrive optional, up to +1. In the end it's 5-7 slots depending on choice. Hope it's worth losing the major part of survivability kit.

Edited September 7, 2021 by Nortumberland

I'll post again here for concealment feedback.

 

Me and my friend wanted to test long combats (and new combat logging) so we duo'd KP sm first boss. The log is here: https://www.swtorlogs.com/reports/hWX8qvpnfZ7DKdQm/#type=summary&fight=10

 

It felt really great to have Stim boost uptime close to 50%. In sm / solo play context self heals, shield probe and immunity rolls are enough defensively but i can see there being some problems, especially for lethality, since revitalizers was removed. I'd hope that devs would add some kind of DR cooldown to operative toolkit for encounters like brontes Nim where there is long periods of high sustained dtps.

1. Yes, it feels like an operative. We’ll still be stealthing, rolling, and stabbing in 7.0.

 

2. Yes, the tree is easy to understand.

 

3. In Medicine, I like the damage reduction attached to kolto injection. The effects for laceration in concealment and the poisons in lethality were also interesting in a good way

It's great to see Active Stealth finally work!

 

Is it considered a bug that Revealing Weakness doesn't trigger it? Backstab should act "As if you attacked from stealth" after volatile substance. It triggers Jarring Strike knockdown, for example, so the precedent is not only "from-stealth" damage + gain a TA.

Hey again,

 

Just wanted to chime in again about how current med op needs some kinda defensive beyond shield probe and evasion.

 

If there is a big, unavoidable hit (common in raids), operatives are hugely disadvantaged compared to the other heal specs. Revitalizers and the probe dr utility were barely adequate in 6.0, but without those, we’re in a fair bit of trouble. Please give some us some form of dr, even if its something small like the probe dr we used to have. Ideally, we’d get revitalizers like lethality. I can see why concealment shouldnt get it with the stim boost uptime and god roll causing issues in pvp, but why not medicine?

With PTS now live, you can help test the Operative Combat Style.

 

Please answer the following questions:

[*]Do the abilities available make this experience feel like you are playing an Operative? Please explain why or why not.

I mainly play as lethality operative. I'd like to build my TA from stealth or from 10m distance(sever tendom ulitily is very helpful) since I'll use my rifle for corrosive assault as my main damage dealing ability. Removing sever tendom completly from the game pidgeonhole my playstyle into another concealment operative and makes lethality less attractive. Please can we get choice to make utility in new discipline tree that affect shiv to have 10m range or change it to be(also removed) overload shot that have same cooldown, grand TA and be 10m ability? PT/Vanguard already have a way to be 10m class via tactical flying fists.

I am going to chime in here and agree with several of the previous posts on 2 topics. I felt I wanted to bring them up again so they would not be lost in the thread.

 

1. Hard stun (debilitate) should not be a choice - unless it is a choice for every class. Its not balanced between what classes have a hard stun as a baseline ability and what ones have to choose it. It is a bit unfair.

 

2. Kolto infusion should go back to being a HoT-heal as stated by others it plays in line with medicine operatives being the HoT healers of the game and it would differentiate it from Kolto Injection. It is a rather lackluster heal as a single heal to be considered something to help operatives with burst healing. Its benefit comes from its other passives of reapplying 2 probes or making a target resistant to elemental or internal damage. I could live without the other things associated with the current curative agent utility if Kolto Infusion was made a HoT again.

 

Otherwise, there are some nice changes/choices for medicine operative and I'm looking forward to 7.0.

Overall, the top level stuff is fine. The current loss of overload shot is a pain for my personal style because I often use it as a finishing move. However, if you are keeping it out of endgame abilities, you might want to have players start with it and have it be a swapped out at a higher level with a key discipline ability. Doing the first few levels with only a basic attack is brutal. New players might get turned off, and having an ability that uses energy is vital for a new player to get the grasp of managing energy. Its loss is also a real drag for healers, as the advantage for ops/scoundrel heals is that they have the teeth to support the dps if they're low or there's a really resilient tank or to take care of themselves if there adds that focus on heals like at the end of Hammer Station. This applies for scoundrels and its equivalent as well. Edited November 13, 2021 by tsteenburg
clarity