Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Bracket Changes, and What's Next

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Bracket Changes, and What's Next
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
06.12.2021 , 10:30 PM | #81
The only way the 10-74 bracket is viable is to give everyone their class abilities when they enter pvp at lvl 10.

Yes this will be confusing for new players. But BioWare made this bed, so now they need to make it work. As it is, it’s a far worse experience than before.

Either seperate the brackets again and incentivise people to play lowbies and pvp. Or give players a fighting chance by granting all abilities and utilities up to lvl 74 in lowbies.

DarkTergon's Avatar


DarkTergon
06.14.2021 , 07:45 AM | #82
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
The only way the 10-74 bracket is viable is to give everyone their class abilities when they enter pvp at lvl 10.

Yes this will be confusing for new players. But BioWare made this bed, so now they need to make it work. As it is, it’s a far worse experience than before.

Either seperate the brackets again and incentivise people to play lowbies and pvp. Or give players a fighting chance by granting all abilities and utilities up to lvl 74 in lowbies.
another option could be that only limited stuns could work, say if you are stunned twice in a row, you couldn't be a third time, or something like that.
Stand up for what you believe in, even if it means standing alone
--------------------------------
Proud owner of 'Endwalker' , the first non SWTOR item I've ever pre ordered.
It's a sign of the times, my swtor sub has been used to sub a different game.

CheesyEZ's Avatar


CheesyEZ
06.14.2021 , 11:04 AM | #83
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
The only way the 10-74 bracket is viable is to give everyone their class abilities when they enter pvp at lvl 10.
false.

bolster works just fine at equalizing attack power and mitigating dmg. the real problem is mobility, cc, and escapes (or lack of them for low levels).

you don't need to unlock the entire tech tree (snake? ladder?), but you do need to unlock the cc, movement, and escape abilities that every class has by 66.

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
06.14.2021 , 12:29 PM | #84
Quote: Originally Posted by CheesyEZ View Post
false.

bolster works just fine at equalizing attack power and mitigating dmg. the real problem is mobility, cc, and escapes (or lack of them for low levels).

you don't need to unlock the entire tech tree (snake? ladder?), but you do need to unlock the cc, movement, and escape abilities that every class has by 66.
Most of which are linked to unlocking the majority of the utility tree. If they are ever to go down this path, they may as well go the whole way and give everyone the same abilities up to lvl 74. That way it’s 100% lvl playing field and it comes down to skill and not lvl.

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
06.14.2021 , 12:33 PM | #85
Quote: Originally Posted by DarkTergon View Post
another option could be that only limited stuns could work, say if you are stunned twice in a row, you couldn't be a third time, or something like that.
The 10-74 bracket idea is a massive failure in terms of playability and enjoyment for anyone below lvl 40. Whoever thought this would work and be healthy for pvp or that it was a good idea, needs a refresher on game development.

CheesyEZ's Avatar


CheesyEZ
06.14.2021 , 03:11 PM | #86
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
Most of which are linked to unlocking the majority of the utility tree. If they are ever to go down this path, they may as well go the whole way and give everyone the same abilities up to lvl 74. That way it’s 100% lvl playing field and it comes down to skill and not lvl.
every class has a base mobility enhancement, hard stun, and sap. you don't need to run through the heroic skills options for these. it's a lot less convoluted to add the standard stun, sap, stealth, hydrolics, barrier, undying, w/e. that's like 3-4 activated abilities per class rather than throwing the entire playbook of the class on a new player at lvl 10.

I wouldn't care if they opened the whole book to lvl 10s, but that's a far cry from just giving them their class base CCs, movements, and escapes.

DarkTergon's Avatar


DarkTergon
06.14.2021 , 04:05 PM | #87
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
The 10-74 bracket idea is a massive failure in terms of playability and enjoyment for anyone below lvl 40. Whoever thought this would work and be healthy for pvp or that it was a good idea, needs a refresher on game development.
I know, and you know. But this came from a certain group. The is no healthy pvp anymore, it's premade ranked people rolfstomping their way through it. All they care about is queues popping all the time, so they can keep smashing their way through, and believing they are really great.

This has been brought up a few times, and if you look on FB, and others places that don't have biased people in control, you can see different stories.

The changes of brackets was purely to make pvp pop more, it doesn't promote anything healthy.
All it's going to do in the end, is stop new people from learning, and wanting to get better. When the queues stop popping, we'll see more pushes from GS, and/or bigger rewards, or possibly even cross server.
Stand up for what you believe in, even if it means standing alone
--------------------------------
Proud owner of 'Endwalker' , the first non SWTOR item I've ever pre ordered.
It's a sign of the times, my swtor sub has been used to sub a different game.

DarkTergon's Avatar


DarkTergon
06.14.2021 , 04:09 PM | #88
Quote: Originally Posted by CheesyEZ View Post
every class has a base mobility enhancement, hard stun, and sap. you don't need to run through the heroic skills options for these. it's a lot less convoluted to add the standard stun, sap, stealth, hydrolics, barrier, undying, w/e. that's like 3-4 activated abilities per class rather than throwing the entire playbook of the class on a new player at lvl 10.

I wouldn't care if they opened the whole book to lvl 10s, but that's a far cry from just giving them their class base CCs, movements, and escapes.
the system is not fair at the moment, a level 10 versus a level 74 is unbalanced, and bolstering will never fix that, there are too many other factors to consider, before they can be even considered, that's why there was always brackets.
So small fish could learn to grow, become big fish, before heading to a bigger ponds, then training from small fish again, to be bigger fish, then eventually, training enough to be come a shark, and take a bite out of ranked.
Stand up for what you believe in, even if it means standing alone
--------------------------------
Proud owner of 'Endwalker' , the first non SWTOR item I've ever pre ordered.
It's a sign of the times, my swtor sub has been used to sub a different game.

CheesyEZ's Avatar


CheesyEZ
06.14.2021 , 05:23 PM | #89
Quote: Originally Posted by DarkTergon View Post
the system is not fair at the moment, a level 10 versus a level 74 is unbalanced, and bolstering will never fix that, there are too many other factors to consider, before they can be even considered, that's why there was always brackets.
So small fish could learn to grow, become big fish, before heading to a bigger ponds, then training from small fish again, to be bigger fish, then eventually, training enough to be come a shark, and take a bite out of ranked.
I think this'll my last post in here. I don't like being dragged into these pb loops.

bolster isn't perfect, but it does do an adequate job of buffing 1) lower level player's passive mitigation and 2) lower level's limited and basic attacks. what's sorely missing for lower level players is not the strength of their attacks or their passive mitigation. it is their ability to control, escape, chase, and kite. 90% of those abilities are rolled-up in having your class' base CC, escape/mobility abilities.

let me explain: on a concentration sentinel, I can go toe to toe with any level 70+ class in the game so long as we both just stand there hitting each other. i've tested this numerous times. I can actually dps down a 70s AP PT with nothing more than unbuffed saber ward, rebuke, and the cc breaker.

the problem occurs when the lower level player has to move. no low level player has the CC or the movement/escape abilities to kite anything under 20, and even under 40 it's pretty rough. I don't need the immunity + root breaker attached to the lvl 66(?) ability that makes JKs "sprint" 30m or the skill that goes along with it. but I do need awe to aoe CC and force choke to hard stun players that are tunneling me. I need to be able to transcend at least once (valorous call) OR be able to stand and fight w/o generating resources with zen (again, valorous call). these are not specially talented abilities in the skill tree. they are not a slew of perks slowly built into the abilities ladder.

there a small group of basic class abilities that enable players to pvp on a very basic ground floor level of competition. I'm not arguing that mashing 10-74 together was a good idea. of course it's dumb. however, only a few small tweaks that grant 2-4 movement and CC related abilities + bolster the way it already works now would be sufficient to give low level players a chance to meaningfully contribute in both arenas and WZs. right now, what is a sorc in the teens going to do in an arena? no PW. no barrier. I think he has a sprint and one break. night not even have a CC. he could do solid dmg, but not if he doesn't have the opportunity to use is b/c he lacks his class' basic escapes. again, don't need to reinvent the wheel. don't need to give level 10s the whole skills library and have them setup all their bars and whatnot before each match. but yeah, give the 2-4 base mobility/cc/escape moves that everyone would have ~lvl 50.