Jump to content

On the new flashpoints - Comments for 7.0


Recommended Posts

Hello everyone,

 

First of all, I would like to explain the purpose of this thread. The recent expansions (major ones) were characterized by the introduction of new flashpoints that are repeatable. However, I would like to address and summarize the current problems that these new updates still have.

 

Difficulty

 

Although there are some flashpoints that can be played only in veteran or hard mode, the flashpoints introduced since Shadows of Revan added another level which is "solo" mode, i.e., you can complete it by your own without the necessity of finding a team.

 

However, the two last flahspoints (Spirit of Vengeance, hereinafter SoV, and Secretes of the Enclave, hereinafter SotE) introduced indirectly a forth level of difficulty: the first solo mode run. When you enter these flashpoints following the Story line, you not only have your own companion, but also an additional companion which is a main character from the story.

 

The above mechanic works in a similar way to the Combat Droid that you received when enter Solo Flashpoints as Taral V, Boarding Party, Maelstrom Prison, The Foundry, Directive Seven, Battle of Ilum, False Emperor, Korriban Incursion or Assault on Tython. However, since Knights of the Eternal Throne flashpoints (Crisis on Umbara, A traitor among the Chiss and Nathema Conspiracy), this support droid is missing.

 

While in KotET flashpoints the lack of the support droid is well compensated by the difficulty of the enemies/bosses, this was not the case in SoV and SotE at the beginning. Many of us agree that recent changes have made both flashpoints easier than when they were both released. However, there is still a clear feeling of increasing difficulty, even for irating 306 players. More over, patch 6.3.2 (more details here) were supposed to reduce the difficulty of Heta Kol's encounter by reducing the number of backups, which was not implemented.

 

The main problem with this increasing difficulty, is that players feel not worthy expending their time in replaying these two flashpoints

 

Deco drop rate

 

Another important factor for replaying flashpoints is to obtain decorations. Before KotET flashpoints, since just 1 decoration was granted for each flashpoint (either as a secure-drop from Solo Flashpoints or as a rare-drop from the very beginning flashpoints), the huge variety of decorations introduced since KotET makes necessary to replay flashpoints several times.

 

In the case of Crisis on Umbara, A traitor among the Chiss and Nathema Conspiracy, since each boss encounter drops a decoration (in each difficulty level), players have the possibility of replaying flashpoints either by their own or with the help of friends/group finder.

 

However, this is not the case for SoV and SoeT as pointed out here many months ago. You can complete a run of each flashpoint without obtaining any decoration from any encounter. This is clearly annoying:

 

  • Solo mode: First of all, you must complete the whole flashpoint and, as explained above, is not so easy. Secondy, there is a considerable amount of decorations per flashpoint, so even if you had the chance to get one, it is luckliy that the decoration is not the expected one. There for, from a probability X of obtaining one particular decoration, you must also take into account the probability of drawing one from the collection, lets say Y. So you end up with a proability of X*Y which is clearly lower than X. In other words, you must expend several hours completing SoV or SoeT to obtain the deco you want.
  • Veteran/Hard mode: In this case, we must consider that the difficulty escalates as you are in a group. Although the decoration drop rate seems to be higher that for Solo Modes (or is expected to be higher), you have also the probability of drawing randomly the decoration and then the roll of the decoration in the group (which is now performed automatically with the new loot system). So, the probability is even lower than in the solo mode.

 

This situation generates that 1) players are less motivated to replay this new flashpoints; 2) these items contributed to the inflation in the market since there is always 1 deco guaranteed from your first run following the story.

 

Conclussion

 

Right now, with the above ideas exposed, I think we can summarize that new flashpoints are less attractive not because of their story (I would like to say that both offer great stories) but because of the difficulty in replaying it or obtaining benefits from doing so.

 

Since Expansion 7.0 (more details here) is expected to introduce at least 1 new flashpoint, but I would guess a few more in forthcoming updates, I might suggest that the above items should be fixed so as the community could fully enjoy playing this new content.

 

Thank you for your time. And please, if you think that I am wrong or you have more ideas, do not hesitate in answering to this thread.

 

See you in the game!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think you're wrong.

 

It's wholely unnecessary to encourage people to participate in a solo run EVER in an MMO. Allowing them the freedom to choose to play solo is not something to reward to the point you actively encourage less cooperation and less group play.

 

To whit, I would wholeheartedly support the removal of each and every decoration from solo content and only allow it to drop in veteran or master mode play (or story mode operations since that is group content).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's wholely unnecessary to encourage people to participate in a solo run EVER in an MMO. Allowing them the freedom to choose to play solo is not something to reward to the point you actively encourage less cooperation and less group play.

 

I partially agree with your statement. Of course I think that MMO must encourage collaboration between players. However, I would say that some content (must-do content as the story) should be allowed to play in solo mode. Let's say you want to follow the chronological order of flashpoints: when "Collicoid Wars" was not in the group finder, you spent hours/days asking people to join you. Is this wrong? I wouldn't say so cause that flashpoint was unnecessary to understand your character story line, it was a complementary story (although there are some references in later flashpoints). But these new flashpoints are key to Onslaught story line.

 

To whit, I would wholeheartedly support the removal of each and every decoration from solo content and only allow it to drop in veteran or master mode play (or story mode operations since that is group content).

 

Although I do not agree with this part, I think we must still considering that there is not a certainty in obtaining a decoration by completing SoV or SotE in veteran/master mode. So I wouldn't say that this will encourage the collaboration because people would end up getting tired of trying and waiting for group finder.

Edited by Borja_Perez
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Totally agree with you.

 

I love decorating my strongholds, so I often play flashpoints by myself or with guildmates just to get decos. The newest flashpoints have lots of cool stuff, but so far I only got skulls, a boulder and some rubble... so I'm not as inclined to keep playing them again and again just to try to get some new decos and end up having another incredibly fancy rock from Dantooine.

 

In contrast, I play A Traitor Among The Chiss and other older FPs a lot, wether alone or with friends to get some nice decorations and outfits. Unlike the SoV and SotE FPs, these runs are very rewarding since you get tons of cool drops, so it pays the effort and time you dedicate to these runs. So I'm more inclined to keep replaying these older FPs rather than spending too much time in the new ones just to get some scraps.

 

Most of the players I know have not played the new FPs aside from the storyline mission, and I would say that making each boss drop decorations will increase the interest overall in playing these FPs, both solo and in group. Especially, since the new FPs are really nice and well designed and decorated, and it's a shame that players don't feel like playing them more because it's not worth the effort.

 

It's wholely unnecessary to encourage people to participate in a solo run EVER in an MMO. Allowing them the freedom to choose to play solo is not something to reward to the point you actively encourage less cooperation and less group play.

 

To whit, I would wholeheartedly support the removal of each and every decoration from solo content and only allow it to drop in veteran or master mode play (or story mode operations since that is group content).

 

I don't agree. People has not stopped playing the previous flashpoints in group just because there's loot in story mode. In fact, there might be more people farming them in group just because it's faster and more entertaining than doing it solo again and again, but you should not remove the option to play by yourself if you want to have a chill run or do it at your own pace.

 

Forcing people who don't want to do group content into Group Finder always ends up in tedious encounters and arguments between players who want to go easy and players who just want to farm. It's good to have options for everyone. Besides, if you only play the FPs to get decos, playing in group decreases your chances to get the drop thus having to farm a lot more.

 

Each difficulty having different rewards already forces players to group up to do the FPs and get the fancy loot, so I really don't get why removing solo mode will improve anything.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Too me the perfect system would be visual "shell" gear or empty gear and decos on solo story mode. Veteran would have the same hear only prototype or artifact mods inside. And Master Mode same visual gear but with set bonus as well as end game mods in the gear. Cause I could care less about option 2 or 3 and the decos. But everyone gets something.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think you're wrong.

 

It's wholely unnecessary to encourage people to participate in a solo run EVER in an MMO. Allowing them the freedom to choose to play solo is not something to reward to the point you actively encourage less cooperation and less group play.

 

To whit, I would wholeheartedly support the removal of each and every decoration from solo content and only allow it to drop in veteran or master mode play (or story mode operations since that is group content).

 

I know, right? How dare other people have fun their own way in playing the game. They're having BadWrongFun. They don't deserve decorations.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know, right? How dare other people have fun their own way in playing the game. They're having BadWrongFun. They don't deserve decorations.

 

For me, its more of a "Solo Mode already exists. Why should people run HM or VM fps if Solo is better rewards/run or same rewards/easier run."

 

If you want to see solo mode made yet more inviting (its already pretty easy) then I want to see even better rewards in HM so that I'll see more people queueing up for these fun fps I hardly ever see.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know, right? How dare other people have fun their own way in playing the game. They're having BadWrongFun. They don't deserve decorations.

 

I appreciate your syllogism, but perhaps you'd like to understand why giving decorations a prevalency in solo content is counterintuitive to functionality in an online multiplayer game.

 

You see, this game cannot accomodate more people than there are on the planet. It's unlikely to get close. It's also unlikely to grow by way of hundreds of thousands of players playing alone, changing it from an MMO into kotor 3 (which, as we recall 10 years ago, was what a lot of people desired anyway). Some players love group content, some loathe it... but the ones on the fence are in question. The ones on the fence will consider the easiest route to victory (their own victory, in this instance, being decorations). And if it's easier to solo everything for decorations, instead of grouping up, you diminish the number of participants in group play in a Multiplayer game and, yes, make the game less fun.

 

Perhaps once you consider this option you'll realise the selflishness of your statement far outweighs that of mine. So sure, I decided to go reductio ad absurdum and go 'no story mode decorations!' but honestly, I do believe that sort of thing needs to require group play, or at the very least more decorations only obtainable in easily accessible content (we could discuss nim deco's here if you like, but that's something for another day).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Although there are some flashpoints that can be played only in veteran or hard mode, the flashpoints introduced since Shadows of Revan added another level which is "solo" mode, i.e., you can complete it by your own without the necessity of finding a team.

 

However, the two last flahspoints (Spirit of Vengeance, hereinafter SoV, and Secretes of the Enclave, hereinafter SotE) introduced indirectly a forth level of difficulty: the first solo mode run.

No, they didn't. They merely continued the established tradition of Solo-Story mode, a tradition that started with Crisis on Umbara. The complete current list of four-mode flashpoints is:

* Crisis on Umbara

* A Traitor Among The Chiss (Copero)

* Nathema Conspiracy

* Objective Meridian

* (??? I'm not 100% convinced that it's an FP) Echoes of Oblivion

* Spirit of Vengeance

* Secrets of the Enclave

 

It's worth noting that CoU has a subtle difference between "solo-story" and "story"(1) - for the first half, you are accompanied by a second NPC who shall remain nameless in case someone hasn't run it yet, but only in solo-story. Something similar applies to Objective Meridian on Pubside - you have a companion (who's fixed at Influence Rank 1) and an extraneous NPC.

 

EDIT: and of course ATATC also suffered from the "first run is with a new rank 1 companion" effect in Solo-Story.

 

(1) Confusingly, when the fourth mode was introduced, it was called just "Solo", but was for advancing the story, while "Story" was normal solo repetition. This naming caused *epic* confusion when CoU was introduced.

Edited by SteveTheCynic
Link to comment
Share on other sites

i agree with OP that solo/story should be dumbtruck easy so even the least capable players should be able to clear it, the combat support droid is great but reduce the difficulty of content and make the droid better. however, story/solo shouldn't be something that's promoted to play over the harder difficulties, as such I agree with several of the prior posters that gear, decorations and other stuff should be dropping a lot more/have higher chance in harder difficulties

 

that means that a solo/story player can still do the storymode but for players that want more rewards there are incentives to do the harder difficulties

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This was exhausting to read its like your submitting a paper for school.

I think Spirits and Enclave are some of the better flashpoints and increase difficulty is always a welcomed sign in this under tuned chucky cheese game.

If its not designed for solo then so be queue up in galactic finder.

Edited by danksama
Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, they didn't. They merely continued the established tradition of Solo-Story mode, a tradition that started with Crisis on Umbara. The complete current list of four-mode flashpoints is:

* Crisis on Umbara

* A Traitor Among The Chiss (Copero)

* Nathema Conspiracy

* Objective Meridian

* (??? I'm not 100% convinced that it's an FP) Echoes of Oblivion

* Spirit of Vengeance

* Secrets of the Enclave

 

It's worth noting that CoU has a subtle difference between "solo-story" and "story"(1) - for the first half, you are accompanied by a second NPC who shall remain nameless in case someone hasn't run it yet, but only in solo-story. Something similar applies to Objective Meridian on Pubside - you have a companion (who's fixed at Influence Rank 1) and an extraneous NPC.

 

EDIT: and of course ATATC also suffered from the "first run is with a new rank 1 companion" effect in Solo-Story.

 

(1) Confusingly, when the fourth mode was introduced, it was called just "Solo", but was for advancing the story, while "Story" was normal solo repetition. This naming caused *epic* confusion when CoU was introduced.

 

Yes, you are right. I did not remember if KotET flashpoints were initially run with the other companion. However, I think you agree with me that the use of such an additional companion in the solo run of CoU, ATATC or NC is not so critical when you re-run (story mode) the flashpoint without them. In SoV it makes a difference!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This was exhausting to read its like your submitting a paper for school.

I think Spirits and Enclave are some of the better flashpoints and increase difficulty is always a welcomed sign in this under tuned chucky cheese game.

If its not designed for solo then so be queue up in galactic finder.

 

First of all, yes, I am a scientist, so I think each time I have to explain something I structure my ideas as a paper. It is a curse, but sometimes a useful one!

 

Your comments are aligned with those written by:

For me, its more of a "Solo Mode already exists. Why should people run HM or VM fps if Solo is better rewards/run or same rewards/easier run."

 

however, story/solo shouldn't be something that's promoted to play over the harder difficulties, as such I agree with several of the prior posters that gear, decorations and other stuff should be dropping a lot more/have higher chance in harder difficulties

 

It's wholely unnecessary to encourage people to participate in a solo run EVER in an MMO. Allowing them the freedom to choose to play solo is not something to reward to the point you actively encourage less cooperation and less group play

 

Answering all of you at the same time, I partially agree with your ideas. Of course I consider that group content should be promoted in a MMO game. However, one thing is promoting content and the other thing is forcing that content. This is to answer to the complain about the freedom choice of solo content.

 

Regarding the rewards, I think the current system in which you obtain better gear/tacticals from master mode flashpoints is fine. However, okay, let's also introduced decorations as an incentive. If decoration is not guaranteed, there is great variety of them and players still have a 25% of obtaining the supposed decoration from the encounter, I would consider that people will be getting tired of trying VM and HM flashpoints (in best case scenario). For worst scenarios, I guess so much toxicity may arise due to disagreements and people forcing to do a particular content which requires, providing you don't have a group, joining randomly players.

 

I would like to add that ATATAC, Nathema Conspiracy and Objective Meridian are flashpoints introduced some years ago, whose Story Mode run is easy to run and whose rewards include a 100% certainty of decorations in all difficulties, and there are players queuing for VM and HM. That's why I do not see in my petition a threat to the group content.

Edited by Borja_Perez
wrong spelling
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, you are right. I did not remember if KotET flashpoints were initially run with the other companion. However, I think you agree with me that the use of such an additional companion in the solo run of CoU, ATATC or NC is not so critical when you re-run (story mode) the flashpoint without them. In SoV it makes a difference!

In ATATC it can make a difference if you (a) aren't a start-at-1 Agent and (b) forget to bring gifts for Raina Temple, since she will be rank 1 and there isn't a second companion to help out, but apart from that, yeah, the high probability that Blondie will be above rank 1 (for CoU and NC) strongly mitigates the problem.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Difficulty:

 

The problem of SoV is that it's broken in Solo Story Mode. Many solo players only play for the story and SoV block them from accessing the only new content they care about. Bioware didn't know where the problem is despite most if not all people have reported where the problem is: the adds that spawn in the final boss fight overwhelm them. It took Bioware 10 MONTHS to finally change it in the latest 6.2.3 patch. If they actually read any of the thread that talked about the issue, they should have known it and fixed it in last December (or January if we take Christmas holiday in consideration).

 

As a result, they made Secret of Enclave extremely easy even in MM. It shows how Bioware never understand the core of the problem: Solo Story Mode should be face-roll easy for every customer to progress the story content, but VM and MM should be challenging for skilled players to enjoy. This is how they should do story related contents.

 

Deco drop rate:

 

The reason I don't replay SoV is exactly because the non-guaranteed deco drop.

I run Copero and Nathema once in a while because:

1. I can stealth through the trash and only do the boss fights. Boss fights are fun. Killing trashes aren't.

2. Guaranteed deco drop.

 

Since Bioware made it impossible to skip trash in SoV, plus the very low deco drop rate, I'm not wasting 30min of my life killing endless trashes for nothing. Simple as that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...