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What does (re)playing a "class" story using a "non-class" combat style mean to you?


Zorii_Bliss

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And how many times will you replay that story with a different combat style?

How much mileage is in this, especially if you've already played all the stories with any number of toons, each with their own headcanon?

 

a) It would be nice to stealth through class content that you couldn't previously. It would be nice for LS Sith and DS Jedi to use their corresponding animations. It would be nice to use an assault cannon on an IA or a rifle on a BH.

 

b) Expansions don't have to precisely cater to your specific interests to have value. I haven't played the Dxun op and probably won't play the new op, and that's fine. Other players like that stuff.

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And how many times will you replay that story with a different combat style?

How much mileage is in this, especially if you've already played all the stories with any number of toons, each with their own headcanon?

 

Currently I'd like to play through each story again at least once.

 

It enables you to merge the mindset of a certain base class and story with a different combat style. A cool poll I saw on reddit was about what combination of class and combat style would represent Qui-Gon Jinn and the majority of people thought consular and guardian. This makes perfect sense to me - you can play a more political jedi character who still fights on the front lines as a guardian of the people.

Likewise for the sith warrior, you could play a warrior who holds more value in mastery of the force and so pick a sith sorcerer. There is also a point in the sith warrior storyline that if you accept it, can fundamentally change the way you see your character and change alignments. This did nothing in game apart from giving some companion affection and light side or dark side points, but now if you hit light 5 you can actually become a jedi, then carry that forward and be a saboteur in onslaught etc. That is huge for me.

 

Realistically it doesn't fundamentally change a tonne of things, the cutscenes will be the same etc, but it allows for an in game representation of so many more headcanons that can only be seen as a benefit for the game imo.

 

Also I dislike the bounty hunter animations for the most part and would much rather use the trooper combat styles while playing a bounty hunter - with these changes I will be able to do just that.

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It means getting a chance to do something I've wanted for more than eight years, if not quite as universal as I would've liked, even then.

 

Honestly, though, it's just plenty of opportunity to put some spice and variety into the part of the game that, to me, is still really the biggest draw.

 

Chris did allude to breaking the tech/force boundary in the future (would need a lot of new animations and is a big time commitment) and said that the devs consider combat styles to be a step in that direction, so your dream of a trooper knight could still happen in the future!

 

Not much of a spice fan myself, where are the death sticks at...

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Combat style means nothing to me, what so ever. I'll make more characters (and buy more slots) if they do something substantial with character creation. However, I will make stealth loadouts for everyone for those times I don't feel like clearing trash.
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It means I can get the single blade saber melee combat I want for my Consular and Inquisitor :)

 

It means I get my blaster pistols for my Agent and Trooper!

 

Means I'll go Gunslinger and maybe Commando on my Hunter. Yeah, Hunter's are the mirror class of the Trooper, but now that Hunter can wield an Ion Cannon when I want!

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Chris did allude to breaking the tech/force boundary in the future (would need a lot of new animations and is a big time commitment) and said that the devs consider combat styles to be a step in that direction, so your dream of a trooper knight could still happen in the future!

Yeah, I won't balk at further expansion, if that comes at some point in the future. For how long I've been waiting for this sort of thing, I'll take getting "only" 50% of the options opened! And honestly, I'm still really hyped for getting an excuse to redo the Consular story, too (I don't enjoy playing Sage, and Shadow is fun, but the animations aren't exactly my favorites...Guardian Shadow, here I come!).

 

Not to mention a stealthy Hunter...that early episode of the Mandalorian where he's doing stealth takedowns of Stormtroopers has made me want to play a Scoundrel in that story, too...

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Nothing. It means absolutely nothing to me. First, because i don't understand what "loadout" means, second because i don't want to be forced to learn a second class if i don't want to, don't want to die in 5 seconds in each and every flashpoint because my class has been "balanced" so is a glass cannon and third, because i REFUSE to play jedi guardian, the only class that won't be completely ruined by "combat styles".

How exactly am i supposed to re-play a class story WITHOUT any defensives and rotation??? How am i supposed to control powertech overheat when "some abilities will be baked and no more tacticals" ?

Good luck with that!

Yes, i get it, the Amban JP riffle is cool and i dream of having one, but i don't want to be a BH with an "advanced" class extremely hard to play, like plasmatech vanguard! By the way, Vulkk's rotation and utilities points for plasmatech are plain wrong, it doesn't work.

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I've made character of both advanced classes / gender for every class, and as i made the characters to fit these, i'll most probably leave them as is, but that mostly means i can also have stealth for everyone, which is great.

 

So i'll probably have one loadout for their regular / current adv. class and the other one for a similar stealth adv. class.

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It doesn't really mean much to me. I've got way, way too many characters as-is.

 

I look forward to having more flexibility with what my RP characters can wield and it seems fun to have more flexibility on the toons I like. It'll be nice to hang on to a smaller group of my favorite characters now that I can have just four do everything, more or less.

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How exactly am i supposed to re-play a class story WITHOUT any defensives and rotation???

 

How many situations in the class stories are you getting into where you need to use more than 3 or 4 abilities?

 

If anything Combat Styles will make the Solo PVE content easier than it already was not more difficult.

 

They're also not getting rid of rotations. The rotations will just change which is something that tends to happen with every expansion.

 

You seem to be worried or upset about a number of things that won't actually be an issue.

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I'm extremely excited for it. The options it gives are really interesting. Someone else already mentioned being able to stealth through any class story if you pick the right style--but I'm also looking rather forward to Trooper and Agent presumably getting to use whatever pistol they have equipped, if using a Smuggle/BH style, instead of their generic cutscene pistol. Quite a few classes have way better animations on one mirror or another, as well.
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I'm extremely excited for it. The options it gives are really interesting. Someone else already mentioned being able to stealth through any class story if you pick the right style--but I'm also looking rather forward to Trooper and Agent presumably getting to use whatever pistol they have equipped, if using a Smuggle/BH style, instead of their generic cutscene pistol. Quite a few classes have way better animations on one mirror or another, as well.

 

I don't know that they're going to update any of the cutscenes to reflect Combat Styles.

 

They've frequently mentioned how Combat Styles are meant to uncouple story from gameplay. If that's truly the case then the Trooper and Agent will continue to use the same generic pistol in cutscenes to represent the story instead of representing Combat Styles. This potentially means that the Smuggler & Bounty Hunter will now also use that same generic pistol if you're using a Combat Style with them that that doesn't use a pistol.

 

The only Combat Style weapons that will probably be reflected in cutscenes are lightsabers, ie single & double-bladed. When it comes to lightsabers the force users always draw them with the same animation in cutscenes regardless if they use a single or double blade.

Edited by Darth-Obvious
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How many situations in the class stories are you getting into where you need to use more than 3 or 4 abilities?

 

If anything Combat Styles will make the Solo PVE content easier than it already was not more difficult.

 

They're also not getting rid of rotations. The rotations will just change which is something that tends to happen with every expansion.

 

You seem to be worried or upset about a number of things that won't actually be an issue.

 

In Toborro's Courtyard, i am always put to kill the adds alone and without ISO, because i'm a "DwH" rpds and I'm supposed to be somehow invincible, so at least that's what the tank thinks. Two mobs pew-pew-pew-ing me plus the orbital strike ( somehow I'm the only one targeted..) and I'm dead in seconds without all my defensives.

Please tell me what to do?

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In Toborro's Courtyard, i am always put to kill the adds alone and without ISO, because i'm a "DwH" rpds and I'm supposed to be somehow invincible, so at least that's what the tank thinks. Two mobs pew-pew-pew-ing me plus the orbital strike ( somehow I'm the only one targeted..) and I'm dead in seconds without all my defensives.

Please tell me what to do?

 

I asked you about class stories, ie solo content. So why are you asking me about group content?

 

You asked "How exactly am i supposed to re-play a class story WITHOUT any defensives and rotation???" which doesn't make much sense given that class content is super easy and doesn't tend to require the use of defensive cooldowns and they're also not getting rid of rotations either.

 

So, once again I ask you - How many situations in the class stories are you getting into where you need to use more than 3 or 4 abilities?

Edited by Darth-Obvious
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I asked you about class stories, ie solo content. So why are you asking me about group content?

 

You asked "How exactly am i supposed to re-play a class story WITHOUT any defensives and rotation???" which doesn't make much sense given that class content is super easy and doesn't tend to require the use of defensive cooldowns and they're also not getting rid of rotations either.

 

So, once again I ask you - How many situations in the class stories are you getting into where you need to use more than 3 or 4 abilities?

 

Yes, you are right, class stories are easy, they don't require much defensives. But what about flashpoints and operation? How will any ranged survived with the "irating adjustment" cutting 50% of their HP/abilities and without any defensives or a defensive that will have a huge cooldown or not work at all? And with a guessed "rotation"..

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How many situations in the class stories are you getting into where you need to use more than 3 or 4 abilities?

 

If anything Combat Styles will make the Solo PVE content easier than it already was not more difficult.

 

As if it needs to be any easier. This game is 5 yr old easy during the story. Streamlining abilities and getting rid of cooldowns does nothing but actually make the game more shallow in my opinion.

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I don't know that they're going to update any of the cutscenes to reflect Combat Styles.

 

They've frequently mentioned how Combat Styles are meant to uncouple story from gameplay. If that's truly the case then the Trooper and Agent will continue to use the same generic pistol in cutscenes to represent the story instead of representing Combat Styles. This potentially means that the Smuggler & Bounty Hunter will now also use that same generic pistol if you're using a Combat Style with them that that doesn't use a pistol.

 

The only Combat Style weapons that will probably be reflected in cutscenes are lightsabers, ie single & double-bladed. When it comes to lightsabers the force users always draw them with the same animation in cutscenes regardless if they use a single or double blade.

 

It's really hard to say. The only reason Trooper and Agent use a generic pistol in their cutscenes is that they don't actually equip a pistol, whereas Smuggler and Bounty Hunter do. We'd need a closer look at how EXACTLY it's coded, but it is not out of the realm of possibility at all that if you're using a Pistol Combat Style, then the cutscene pistol will actually be a pistol you're using.

 

I'll also note that Trooper and Agent have DIFFERENT generic pistol designs, so your post does make me super curious what Smuggler and Bounty Hunter's will be chosen to look like, as you say. Hmm!

Edited by DjiiniTwo
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Yes, you are right, class stories are easy, they don't require much defensives. But what about flashpoints and operation? How will any ranged survived with the "irating adjustment" cutting 50% of their HP/abilities and without any defensives or a defensive that will have a huge cooldown or not work at all? And with a guessed "rotation"..

 

There are too many unknowns right now but group content is obviously going to get hit the hardest by the changes, most notably PVP more than anything.

 

As for a guessed rotation, it's only going to be guessed for what a few days at most until someone maths out the best rotation like always.

 

You're acting as if everything has had the same rotations for the last 10 years and that nobody will know what to do but new rotations are a fairly standard part of a new expansion launching for an MMO. If you've been playing SWTOR for any significant amount of time, have played all the classes, etc, you've had to learn a new rotation at some point.

 

Having to learn a new rotation alongside the release of an expansion isn't something out of the ordinary.

 

As if it needs to be any easier. This game is 5 yr old easy during the story. Streamlining abilities and getting rid of cooldowns does nothing but actually make the game more shallow in my opinion.

 

Open world PVE and Solo PVE will still no doubt be...

 

- Move forward till you get to the enemy

- Engage enemy

- Target Enemy 1

- Attack Enemy 1 (with simple rotation) till they're dead

- Target Enemy 2

- Attack Enemy 2 (with same rotation) till they're dead

- Target Enemy 3

- Attack Enemy 3 (with same rotation) till they're dead

- All enemies are dead

- Repeat

 

...just as it has been since launch.

 

It's not like the story/solo PVE had a lot of depth or variety to it and it's no wonder so many people want to skip past it whether they're on a speeder or using stealth or whatever. It's just not interesting or engaging enough. People attribute it to being too easy but I think it more has to do with people viewing it as obstacle to get to what they want whether that be gear or story.

 

Plenty of people are willing to engage with combat they fine easy, just look at something like the Dynasty Warriors series. It's never been hard or had much depth but the games generally always sell well. Warframe is another example where players can rip through enemies with easy and do it quickly but they still enjoy the combat or will engage with it even when players in that game are parkouring past enemies to get to the objective shoot or slash enemies despite not actually having to in a number of cases.

Edited by Darth-Obvious
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And how many times will you replay that story with a different combat style?

How much mileage is in this, especially if you've already played all the stories with any number of toons, each with their own headcanon?

Not a whole lot to be honest. I never really liked how gunslinger and commando skills were done, including their weapons. Commando's also have the opposite of heat management of mercenaries so I will change my 2 commando's to mercenaries and my gunslinger to sniper and that's about it.

 

As for force classes, I probably will pick the shadow/assassin on all of them but purely because it makes some things easier. I'm not even sure if my ds jedi knight will get ds skills because I just can't see using those skills and nobody noticing.

 

But as for replay value of the stories...zero.

 

Ok I'm thinking about starting a jedi sage with ds powers, just to experience how ridiculous it is for npc's including jedi masters to NOT notice me using ds powers like force lightning and I might play it through until I get the master title, because since I already have DS5 unlocked anyway, my sage will be able to become master with using those powers since the character itself can still be light side lol...

Edited by Tsillah
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It's really hard to say. The only reason Trooper and Agent use a generic pistol in their cutscenes is that they don't actually equip a pistol, whereas Smuggler and Bounty Hunter do.

 

The reason the Agent and Trooper use pistols in cutscenes is because their weapons are long-range weapons or things that don't work well within scripted sequences where you have characters standing a foot a part.

 

The Trooper's assault cannon just doesn't work for cutscenes the way they're designed/scripted in SWTOR. All 4 force classes can use recycle or reuse the same lightsaber animations in cutscenes without any issue other than holding the double bladed lightsaber a bit weird.

 

Tech classes have more variety in their weapons, their size, positioning, how they're held, etc, but just like with force users the tech classes share an animation set for cutscenes and that animation set is pistols. For example Bounty Hunters and Smugglers have the same set up with pistols either being single wielding or dual-wielding but they only use a single blaster in cutscenes (much like how Sentinels/Marauders only ever use a single lightsaber) those single blaster animations are repurposed and reused for Troopers and Agents in cutscenes which is another reason why Troopers and Agents use blasters in cutscenes.

 

Whether you're playing as a Trooper, Bounty Hunter, Smuggler, or Agent all 4 of them pull a gun off their hip using the exact same animation. All 4 of them point a gun in someone's face using the same animation.

 

We'd need a closer look at how EXACTLY it's coded, but it is not out of the realm of possibility at all that if you're using a Pistol Combat Style, then the cutscene pistol will actually be a pistol you're using.

 

I'll also note that Trooper and Agent have DIFFERENT generic pistol designs, so your post does make me super curious what Smuggler and Bounty Hunter's will be chosen to look like, as you say. Hmm!

 

Chances are the way the cutscenes are set up for the Trooper and Agent is that the cutscene is pointing to a specific file to use, ie Trooper_Cutscene_Pistol.file or Agent_Cutscene_Pistol.file. While Bounty Hunters and Smugglers have a script in place to use the equipped main hand weapon, ie Weapon=Pistol_Dynamic

 

Now they might be able to use the dynamic script or whatever in place of the file pathing that Troopers and Agents use or they might now. Obviously it would be great if they could however based on SWTOR's existing history with updates and changes over the last decade I'm expecting it to change but I hope I'm wrong.

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@Darth-Obvious : i haven't played SWTOR too much, was on/off to other games and yes you are right, guess i am worrying too much . Thing is i don't want to disappoint guild mates when we do FPs and ops together, don't want to be the weak link, that's all.
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I have no intention of restarting new characters. I have plenty with different combat styles and only planning to switch my DS Jedi to the DS equivalent and LS Sith to LS equivalent.

 

Not even interested in having two combat styles per character, although I can see that being beneficial for tanks and healers.

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