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The Face Merchants Heroic


SteveTheCynic's Avatar


SteveTheCynic
07.29.2021 , 11:38 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Jephryp View Post
If it's 30 seconds, it's the longest 30 seconds I've ever encountered...in fact, it's a minute or more for each group. I know this doesn't sound like a lot, but when there are 10 characters there all trying to kill at least four groups to get their 15 kills, it definitely adds up.
PH = Posessed Hunter, on Dromund Kaas, the one with the dude in the room inside the Dark Temple. He respawns in 30 seconds.

The dudes outside The Face Merchants have a respawn timer of several minutes (maybe even as much as five...), while about 45-60 seconds would be a good compromise between "slow enough so we can go through them without them respawning in our faces" and "fast enough so we don't get cobwebs on us while we wait".
Something you find difficult is a lesson on how to play better, not a punishment for playing badly.
To go to Belsavis, you must go to Belsavis.
Latest patch notes at http://www.swtor.com/patchnotes

xordevoreaux's Avatar


xordevoreaux
07.29.2021 , 02:22 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by SteveTheCynic View Post
The dudes outside The Face Merchants have a respawn timer of several minutes (maybe even as much as five...), while about 45-60 seconds would be a good compromise
The Black Sun heroic for Face Merchants was absolutely crawling the other day with players, and flipping maps didn't help matters. They need to get the discovery droid out of that area and then wall the entire place off as a heroic instance and call it a day.
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darthscotty's Avatar


darthscotty
07.29.2021 , 05:05 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by xordevoreaux View Post
The Black Sun heroic for Face Merchants was absolutely crawling the other day with players, and flipping maps didn't help matters. They need to get the discovery droid out of that area and then wall the entire place off as a heroic instance and call it a day.
They need to do something because it is a huge pain to do, not enough mobs to accommodate people.
Quote: Originally Posted by Babby View Post
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Severith's Avatar


Severith
07.29.2021 , 05:31 PM | #14
The game is so easy that people are conditioned not to group up with people, outside of flashpoints, even if grouping up considerably expedites grinding through heroics.

Kinda sad really.

Darth-Obvious's Avatar


Darth-Obvious
07.30.2021 , 02:09 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Severith View Post
The game is so easy that people are conditioned not to group up with people, outside of flashpoints, even if grouping up considerably expedites grinding through heroics.

Kinda sad really.
Just do what Guild Wars 2 does and have everyone in a certain radius be grouped up without actually having to be in a party. "Oh wow when I'm doing this with other people it goes quicker and is actually more fun." and it's easier for players to see or experience that if it can just happen around them. This then potentially makes them more open to grouping and playing with other players.

SWTOR's easiness isn't what conditions people to not group it's the typical or standard MMO design that does so because typical MMO design has generally always been geared towards rewarding the individual and not the group. For instance when you're playing a dungeon and a boss drops a single gear piece that everyone in the party has to roll for. That's the sort of thing that is more beneficial or focused around rewarding a single individual rather than everyone in the group.

Yes, in guilds who continually raid with the same people it can help the group in the long run but with random groups it's not a great design choice to have players competing against one another in content where they're supposed to be working together.

In a similar fashion when it comes to resources nodes in a typical/standard MMO like SWTOR you're fighting against other players to get to them first. In GW2 resource nodes will only disappear for the player who mined them. So if Player A is chopping down a tree to get wood Player B can also chop down that same tree without having to wait for it respawn and if Player B notices that Player A is doing a mining run, going from tree to mineral ore, etc, they can follow Player A around to do the same without it resulting in annoyance or competition.

Is there a world boss that's about to spawn in and people are waiting around for it? In SWTOR only those who are in a group that gets the kill or does the most damage get credit for it. In GW2 it's everybody in the area that contributes regardless if they're grouped or not.

Multiple instances of MMO design that encourages and rewards people to play together rather than competing against one another. GW2 made a smart move by cutting out the middle man of requiring people to group to receive credit while also eliminating many elements of player competition in areas that shouldn't have any.

xordevoreaux's Avatar


xordevoreaux
07.30.2021 , 04:23 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth-Obvious View Post
Just do what Guild Wars 2 does and have everyone in a certain radius be grouped up without actually having to be in a party. "Oh wow when I'm doing this with other people it goes quicker and is actually more fun." and it's easier for players to see or experience that if it can just happen around them. This then potentially makes them more open to grouping and playing with other players.

SWTOR's easiness isn't what conditions people to not group it's the typical or standard MMO design that does so because typical MMO design has generally always been geared towards rewarding the individual and not the group. For instance when you're playing a dungeon and a boss drops a single gear piece that everyone in the party has to roll for. That's the sort of thing that is more beneficial or focused around rewarding a single individual rather than everyone in the group.

Yes, in guilds who continually raid with the same people it can help the group in the long run but with random groups it's not a great design choice to have players competing against one another in content where they're supposed to be working together.

In a similar fashion when it comes to resources nodes in a typical/standard MMO like SWTOR you're fighting against other players to get to them first. In GW2 resource nodes will only disappear for the player who mined them. So if Player A is chopping down a tree to get wood Player B can also chop down that same tree without having to wait for it respawn and if Player B notices that Player A is doing a mining run, going from tree to mineral ore, etc, they can follow Player A around to do the same without it resulting in annoyance or competition.

Is there a world boss that's about to spawn in and people are waiting around for it? In SWTOR only those who are in a group that gets the kill or does the most damage get credit for it. In GW2 it's everybody in the area that contributes regardless if they're grouped or not.

Multiple instances of MMO design that encourages and rewards people to play together rather than competing against one another. GW2 made a smart move by cutting out the middle man of requiring people to group to receive credit while also eliminating many elements of player competition in areas that shouldn't have any.
One green wall would take care of Face Merchants.
About my SWTOR guilds
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SteveTheCynic's Avatar


SteveTheCynic
07.30.2021 , 04:57 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth-Obvious View Post
Just do what Guild Wars 2 does and have everyone in a certain radius be grouped up without actually having to be in a party. "Oh wow when I'm doing this with other people it goes quicker and is actually more fun." and it's easier for players to see or experience that if it can just happen around them. This then potentially makes them more open to grouping and playing with other players.

SWTOR's easiness isn't what conditions people to not group it's the typical or standard MMO design that does so because typical MMO design has generally always been geared towards rewarding the individual and not the group. For instance when you're playing a dungeon and a boss drops a single gear piece that everyone in the party has to roll for. That's the sort of thing that is more beneficial or focused around rewarding a single individual rather than everyone in the group.

Yes, in guilds who continually raid with the same people it can help the group in the long run but with random groups it's not a great design choice to have players competing against one another in content where they're supposed to be working together.

In a similar fashion when it comes to resources nodes in a typical/standard MMO like SWTOR you're fighting against other players to get to them first. In GW2 resource nodes will only disappear for the player who mined them. So if Player A is chopping down a tree to get wood Player B can also chop down that same tree without having to wait for it respawn and if Player B notices that Player A is doing a mining run, going from tree to mineral ore, etc, they can follow Player A around to do the same without it resulting in annoyance or competition.

Is there a world boss that's about to spawn in and people are waiting around for it? In SWTOR only those who are in a group that gets the kill or does the most damage get credit for it. In GW2 it's everybody in the area that contributes regardless if they're grouped or not.

Multiple instances of MMO design that encourages and rewards people to play together rather than competing against one another. GW2 made a smart move by cutting out the middle man of requiring people to group to receive credit while also eliminating many elements of player competition in areas that shouldn't have any.
I would say that GW2 has the best version of this. ESO has automatic cooperative mob-slaying, but still has PvP gathering, which is occasionally annoying. Certain ESO nodes are private because their existence is conditioned on having used a Mainmap Craftskill Survey object (e.g. Vvardenfell Enchanting Survey for enchanting ingredients in Vvardenfell). These show the location of a group of "Rich" nodes that give huge amounts of the resource, and only the owner of the map can gather them, and only after having "used" the map item in the character's inventory.

Either way, it's less awful than the SWTOR version.
Something you find difficult is a lesson on how to play better, not a punishment for playing badly.
To go to Belsavis, you must go to Belsavis.
Latest patch notes at http://www.swtor.com/patchnotes

Sarova's Avatar


Sarova
07.30.2021 , 05:20 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by SteveTheCynic View Post
PH = Posessed Hunter, on Dromund Kaas, the one with the dude in the room inside the Dark Temple. He respawns in 30 seconds.
Indeed and this was done in response to the previously ridiculously long respawn time. Everyone grouped at him out of frustration but even then you had 3 or 4 groups trying to get the first hit on him. They changed him to a fast respawn time and sorted. The other one they changed was shortening the respawn time for "Mutants" the H2 on Taris (that used to be a nightmare) though now it can be part of the PO dailies and the required mobs are few and always dead they might want to instance that too.
But back to OP's original post: +1 for making that area instanced or removing the bonus from the open area as that is beyond frustrating, grouped or not (and a reminder that some players loath randomly grouping - auto decline is there for a reason).
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AlacrityFitzhugh's Avatar


AlacrityFitzhugh
07.31.2021 , 06:03 PM | #19
Can't say I've ever had difficulty motorboating through this one solo without having to wait for anything.
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