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Returning player.....Are Snipers really that bad now?!?


thefishdude

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I played the game at launch for about four years and I'm stepping my toes back in after 5+ years. I've read a bunch of forum post and other articles. Are snipers ( Eng & MM) really that bad in PVP now or are the other classes just that much better?

 

I know metas come and go, but it makes me sad to think my favorite classes sucks....:(

Edited by thefishdude
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No need to respond. Got my toon leveled, geared and played a bunch of pvp matches. Snipers suck now. :mad:

 

 

**UPDATED**

Appears you just need to roll a Merc,Jugg or Operative to completely destroy everyone.

Edited by thefishdude
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No need to respond. Got my toon leveled, geared and played a bunch of pvp matches. Snipers suck now. :mad:

 

 

**UPDATED**

Appears you just need to roll a Merc,Jugg or Operative to completely destroy everyone.

 

Snipers are fine as they are (they really are good). What you have to remember is snipers are near the top of the difficulty scale to play well.

 

It’s also horses for courses and the spec depending on what type of pvp you are playing. For instance, MM snipers can really dominate in ranked and Hutt Ball / Void Star. And Engineering snipers can be good in all maps because of their utility. They won’t do as much damage as a MM sniper, but they can be invaluable to have around.

 

It comes down to what gear you are using and what utility choices you make and how good you are vs the other players.

 

And yes, in regs you will have an over abundance of operatives, mercs and Skank Juggs, but that’s a different issue to do with class stacking and people who can’t play.

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Next question....

 

What's up with all the 3v4 crap in the warzones? four matches in a row it was 3v4 at the start.

Less ppl queue the time u queueing. Thats all.

And about snipers...I play a engineering sniper as one of my main pvp class. I am not the best,ofc,but I do pretty good in almost every type of pvp(rankes and unranked). Long time I dont play the other specs, but engi is the hardest and the most useful spec for snipers right now. Once u get the hang of it u'll be able to 1v1 almost any other class,do alot of dmg against groups and help alot ur group with all the utilities u'll have at ur disposal. Try it and maybe u'll change ur mind. Snipers are in a really good place right now.

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Next question....

 

What's up with all the 3v4 crap in the warzones? four matches in a row it was 3v4 at the start.

 

I know, it’s rubbish. Bioware could fix it if they wanted to but they don’t. It happens because there aren’t enough people in the queue.

 

There are 4 reasons it happens.

 

1. Sometimes it will be because someone declines a pop and there aren’t any others to fill the spot.

2. Someone leaves after popping in and there aren’t any others to fill the spot.

 

And

 

3. Other times it happens when it makes uneven teams because there are 7 people in the queue.

4. And of course the times it makes 3v3 and then back fills halfway through a match.

 

The first 2 reasons aren’t Bioware’s fault and they are limited to what they can do.

** They could just cancel the match before it starts and everyone requeue.

 

The last 2 reasons are 100% Bioware’s fault and they can easily do something to fix it.

** They could do the following to fix it

 

1. If there are 7 in the queue, it should make 3v3 out of the first 6 in the queue. Then rotate players on a first in, first out system.

2. If a game starts with 3v3, it should lock all back fills.

Edited by TrixxieTriss
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I know, it’s rubbish. Bioware could fix it if they wanted to but they don’t...

 

Submited a customer service ticket just to see the response. I quote....

 

I have reviewed your ticket and it looks like you are referring to issues with PVP warzones matching issues for 3v3. I have checked all the required things you asked me to and I would like to inform you that WARZONES ARE WORKING AS INTENDED and we did not receive many reports about this

 

 

Glad to see not much has changed in my six years away from the game.

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@Trix yeah I wish they would correct the backfill issue like WHAAATTT!!!! It's annoying. Why hasn't it been fixed?

 

the deserter debuff was added to reduce back fill. I think it has lessened it a bit. a lot more players visibly AFK or, especially, announce that they quit and then chew out the rest of the op for not coming when he called that one time. personally, i'll just AFK and watch otters on youtube, maybe the latest ep of emergency awesome, check the kitchen situation, or sometimes i'll just go join the DM. iunno. it is what it is. you can either be trixxie screaming the sky is falling and write exacting step by step instructions to "make swtor great again," or you can...you know...let it go. now if only I had control over ice and snow.....

 

I've also found that most players still leave immediately in 1) vandin, 2) arenas, 3) OPG, 4) quesh in that order. the differen between 2 and 3 is fairly large. but the different between 4 and 5 is exceptionally large. I think we've isolated the maps/formats most players dislike or won't play ad nauseum.

 

it's anecdotal, but I'm very confident in it at least as far as SF is concerned. I do queue at all different times from 10am-3am EST various times a given day but the range of days and hours of the day is pretty large.

Edited by CheesyEZ
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Submited a customer service ticket just to see the response. I quote....

 

I have reviewed your ticket and it looks like you are referring to issues with PVP warzones matching issues for 3v3. I have checked all the required things you asked me to and I would like to inform you that WARZONES ARE WORKING AS INTENDED and we did not receive many reports about this

 

 

Glad to see not much has changed in my six years away from the game.

 

Maybe we should all make tickets every time we get a 3v4 game or 1v4 game. Then they’ll have the reports to support what’s happening.

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I played the game at launch for about four years and I'm stepping my toes back in after 5+ years. I've read a bunch of forum post and other articles. Are snipers ( Eng & MM) really that bad in PVP now or are the other classes just that much better?

 

I know metas come and go, but it makes me sad to think my favorite classes sucks....:(

 

This is a L2P issue.

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  • 2 weeks later...
This is a L2P issue.

 

It's funny. It's always easier to just write "it's a L2P issue" than actually address the comment. Makes the person look edgy I guess.....

 

Having played for several weeks now (all three specs in pvp), snipers are definitely not the top dogs. They aren't the worse, but definitely not top dog. Give them a tactical that auto crits Ambush, allows Ambush to insta cast and continues to proc it for 30 seconds....then we'll talk about being top dog (looking at you Powerlode).

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You could spend hundreds of hours learning to be the best sniper possible, or you could just make a brand new mercenary and get practically the same results + more utility. Tank juggs and all types of merc are defo the top dogs rn and hopefully the 7.0 rebalancing levels out the playing field for others specs (though I doubt dot specs like madness will ever be considered good).

 

Marksman and engineering can do really good damage and win a lot of 1v1s, but against some classes you just don't stand a chance, you need to always be thinking 2 steps ahead with positioning and relocation. Virulence absolutely is terrible. Great for numbers fluffing, terrible at anything else.

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I think you're conflating "ease of play" with "most effective."

 

I suspect there are quite a few sniper mains who will be upset if your complaining about snipers leads BW to lower the skill floor for the class but also (as they should) lower the ceiling along with it (just as merc ceiling is lower than sniper).

 

for my part, I'd be fine with such a shift as I don't play sniper. but yeah...iunno. I'd take caprica's word on this over random dude who can't seem to play the class effectively.

 

this xpack, I play arsenal (less), IO (most), deception (most recently), fury mara. and I'm toying with a skank jugg (but it's so silly simplistic that it feels like arsenal that doesn't die in regs, so I'm struggling to login with it).

 

my point is this...I will go after mercs and sorcs on my sin and mara without hesitation. if I fail, I'll go at it a few more times before deciding that the opponent just has my measure. but with snipers, I'll only try once. you can tell right away whether a sniper knows what he's doing or not. and if he does, I just go do something on the other side of the WZ (or wait for an army of friends to help me on the sniper).

Edited by CheesyEZ
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You could spend hundreds of hours learning to be the best sniper possible, or you could just make a brand new mercenary and get practically the same results + more utility. Tank juggs and all types of merc are defo the top dogs rn and hopefully the 7.0 rebalancing levels out the playing field for others specs (though I doubt dot specs like madness will ever be considered good).

 

Marksman and engineering can do really good damage and win a lot of 1v1s, but against some classes you just don't stand a chance, you need to always be thinking 2 steps ahead with positioning and relocation. Virulence absolutely is terrible. Great for numbers fluffing, terrible at anything else.

 

First, thanks for the detailed response. Second, I'm just not gonna roll a merc or commando (seriously, that ability that heals them is nuts....I've learned to simply stop firing at them or CC them). I've always loved snipers, so I'll continue working on that front.

 

With that said, Engineering is definitely my favorite spec, but I just don't think its burst is enough. I want it to be, but it just doesn't measure up to my least favorite spec....MM. Unfortunately, as always, MM is/was always the best spec in PVP.

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I think you're conflating "ease of play" with "most effective."

 

I suspect there are quite a few sniper mains who will be upset if your complaining about snipers leads BW to lower the skill floor for the class but also (as they should) lower the ceiling along with it (just as merc ceiling is lower than sniper)..

 

1) I'm definitely not conflating the two. I understand the sniper class in great detail and more importantly, I know it juggles a lot of abilities.

 

2) Nothing written in this post will get snipers nerfed by Bioware. It was like that at launch and a decade later still seems to be the case. Devs pay lip services to the forums, but they decide nerfs based of their internal data.

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First, thanks for the detailed response. Second, I'm just not gonna roll a merc or commando (seriously, that ability that heals them is nuts....I've learned to simply stop firing at them or CC them). I've always loved snipers, so I'll continue working on that front.

 

With that said, Engineering is definitely my favorite spec, but I just don't think its burst is enough. I want it to be, but it just doesn't measure up to my least favorite spec....MM. Unfortunately, as always, MM is/was always the best spec in PVP.

 

Engineering does put out less burst damage than Marksman, but it has a lot more tricks up its sleeve especially vs melee. Plasma probe alone gives an 8m radius of 50% slow and using interrogation probe + plasma probe + emp gives you another hard stun that's part of your rotation. Also a lot of your damage is internal vs white damage of marksman, so it's harder to negate.

 

Lastly, what heal are you talking about with the commando/merc? They have 3 with the right utilities!! Kolto heals to 70% hp and is practically impossible for any one or two people to get through, the reflect shield heals while making them immune to single target damage and their basic normal 25% damage reduction shield can go down to a minute cooldown while also healing for 40% hp...(joking aside I know which one you mean lol)

 

Just be warned that things may change drastically by the time 7.0 comes out - but, it has been implied that we'll be able to pick new combat styles even for current characters. That means that if commando gets giga nerfed for 7.0, you'll be free to pick whatever suits your fancy.

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1) I'm definitely not conflating the two. I understand the sniper class in great detail and more importantly, I know it juggles a lot of abilities.

 

2) Nothing written in this post will get snipers nerfed by Bioware. It was like that at launch and a decade later still seems to be the case. Devs pay lip services to the forums, but they decide nerfs based of their internal data.

 

snipers are difficult to play. they aren't bad or even middle of the pack. when you play at the class' skill cap, they are the best ranged class in the game.

 

in the current meta, mercs are the easiest ranged class to play, and they also have the weakest upside of the three dps classes. sorcs are in the middle and, imo, they are best ranged class for solos and regs. but seriously, any class and any spec is completely viable in regs. if that's where you experience problems, it really is a L2P issue.

 

you're going to think whatever you think, though. and that's cool. I wouldn't expect to change someone's mind on this forum.

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Engineering does put out less burst damage than Marksman, but it has a lot more tricks up its sleeve especially vs melee. Plasma probe alone gives an 8m radius of 50% slow and using interrogation probe + plasma probe + emp gives you another hard stun that's part of your rotation. Also a lot of your damage is internal vs white damage of marksman, so it's harder to negate.

 

Wanted to say thank you. Since I love Engineering so much, I took your post to heart and went back to. Worked out a few kinks in the rotation (including defensive abilities) and I'm loving it again! So, thanks for your response and feedback.

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Wanted to say thank you. Since I love Engineering so much, I took your post to heart and went back to. Worked out a few kinks in the rotation (including defensive abilities) and I'm loving it again! So, thanks for your response and feedback.

 

Glad you're enjoying it so much! That's what playing video games is all about :D

 

Engineering is also getting some fun options on the PTS to look forward to such as explosive probe resetting on kills and laze target provides a buff to probe damage as well as the auto crit.

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