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premades in unranked


Karimloo

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If you queue premade, you should get placed with other premades. you're seriously ruining the game for everyone else.

 

It's not enough we have roleplayers queueing in wz for the conquest/seasons, we also have to deal with premades screwing the queue?

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it's called granked. stop trolling the thread.

 

This is a troll thread. There is no teamranked. Only organized wintrading. Make some friends and to PVP with in your multiplayer online game. Generally speaking though many premades you encounter in regs are terrible.

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This is a troll thread. There is no teamranked. Only organized wintrading. Make some friends and to PVP with in your multiplayer online game. Generally speaking though many premades you encounter in regs are terrible.

 

This is not a troll thread, and you're baiting.

 

group ranked is team ranked, what are you talking about? Are you advocating win-trading as well?

I will not be queuing with friends to simply gank players in unranked wz, that's the exact opposite of what I am trying to discuss and you're pushing into trolling territory the more you suggest it.

 

Premades with a balanced trinity setup will almost always win due to many players flooding PvP for season/conquest objectives, with no real interest in pvp. You're absolutely trying to defend this griefing behaviour, that's why so far the two posts have been bait posts.

 

Doing this is compounding the issue why new players are put off of doing warzones. Bioware needs to make warzones more fun and ensure fair play, while ranked is where players can push themselves and their teams.

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If you queue premade, you should get placed with other premades. you're seriously ruining the game for everyone else.

 

It's not enough we have roleplayers queueing in wz for the conquest/seasons, we also have to deal with premades screwing the queue?

 

I know you don't want to hear this, but the system does put premades on opposite teams whenever possible (and then there's the issue of filling spots when ppl decline queue). it just doesn't hold their spot in the queue or bump them while waiting to find another premade. personally, I think that's the way it should be. frankly, it's more proper to queue as a trinity or at least a 4m with one support role than for a buncha solo dpsers who run around like chickens with their heads cut off.

 

I've noticed that quite often two powerful (for regs) premades find themselves on opposite teams, particularly when they're full 4m's.

 

edit: also, solo tanks are the worst. half of them ask if there are any healers, then they just leave their guard on the healer the whole match while dps get isolated and obliterated.

Edited by CheesyEZ
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I know you don't want to hear this, but the system does put premades on opposite teams whenever possible (and then there's the issue of filling spots when ppl decline queue). it just doesn't hold their spot in the queue or bump them while waiting to find another premade. personally, I think that's the way it should be. frankly, it's more proper to queue as a trinity or at least a 4m with one support role than for a buncha solo dpsers who run around like chickens with their heads cut off.

 

I've noticed that quite often two powerful (for regs) premades find themselves on opposite teams, particularly when they're full 4m's.

 

edit: also, solo tanks are the worst. half of them ask if there are any healers, then they just leave their guard on the healer the whole match while dps get isolated and obliterated.

 

I know this sounds crazy these days on the internet, but your response is totally reasonable. why wouldnt I want to hear that?

 

so the system that exists isn't actually preventing a premade from just wrecking queues for 4-5 matches in a row, I'd suggest it get fixed to actually work. I honestly don't agree that the system is fine if the system is designed to prevent something, and it's not preventing it. maybe the system needs to match specific premades either from pulling from a solo pool of healers/tanks/dps and matching to the premade, or just find other premades. this would make queuing take longer for premades, and I think if you need a premade to run unranked, you should wait longer, since you're getting a communication/synergy advantage over solo's.

 

honestly, why can't unranked be chaotic, its a good way for new players to get more familiar with pvp, i dont understand the expectation that you need to be at your best level of play at all times, it's like just having a scrimmage, for fun and just blowing off some steam. if you want organized, just queue ranked. ranked needs more players anyways, and I enjoy planning and executing a plan with a solo team. I think 8v8 ranked should return as well, I like playing with and against players that know the game, but that's a different topic.

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If you queue premade, you should get placed with other premades. you're seriously ruining the game for everyone else.

 

It's not enough we have roleplayers queueing in wz for the conquest/seasons, we also have to deal with premades screwing the queue?

 

You don't care about playing against groups of players from bad guilds. You are only upset that you get beaten by better players. Your complaint is about the matchmaking system putting you in games with players who are far better than you, not with people who group together. That matchmaking system has been discussed ad nauseam on the forums, and the reality is that it can't be fixed with the low population in SWTOR. It will get better if they merge the servers, until the population on that final server is low again.

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How can I explain to you I prefer warzones alone? I fundamentally enjoy it better, It's because of the random chance of meeting different players and seeing how they work together.

 

My friends on my guild regularly do it and I don't join them specifically because I think it's boring. I enjoy the randomness of people being placed with each other and seeing what happens. If I just roll with a gank ball of course we're going to dominate. I am fundamentally against it because it ruins the point of unranked being a random, chaotic mode. The fun of unranked is finding your dance partner in the chaos. There's always that one player you end up getting focused on by, or focusing on. But if it's just a gank ball then it doesn't matter anymore.

 

Look if you're just in hear to hurl conjecture or flame bait, I don't know what to tell you. You haven't made a defense for why premades should be allowed, you've only told me I just need to do it myself. I won't. unranked is the entire opposite of hardcore team organization. It's just for fun. and queuing with a group is the antithesis to what unranked should be. group up for ranked.

 

So, the same way you prefer queuing alone, some people prefer queuing with their friends. And some people prefer queuing with their friends in regs for a variety of reasons. It’s not fair to force them out of regs just because you don’t like premades.

 

And before you say it, no, a separate regs group queue won’t work. The PvP population isn’t big enough to support something like that.

 

I’m also going to have to echo an earlier sentiment. You’re not against premades. You’re against getting stomped. No one ever argues against premades when they’re on the winning side. As has been mentioned, forming a premade is not a guarantee of victory. In fact, you’ve probably encountered a premade or two that lost against your team. Your problem is with matchmaker, which has been argued about from one end of this forum to the next. It’s broken and not getting fixed anytime soon.

 

I’m curious about something. You said that forming a premade isn’t fun because it’s not fun to stomp people. But, let me ask you this. If you encounter a team in a wz that’s just bad, and you end up stomping them without a premade, do you leave the wz? Is it still no longer fun to you under those parameters?

 

Skill imbalances happen in every PvP game. Getting stomped by a premade isn’t much different than getting stomped by three or four individual players. And if you think that those players will just be split between the two teams if they don’t group up, see my point about the broken matchmaker system.

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I play alone 99% of my Time and I like it, because the fun fact with most Premades is, they are only strong in Group with their Meta Setups. Catch them alone and most of them get rekt in 1v1.

 

They can farm me 15 Times, I don't care, i'll show them the Truth when I catch them alone.

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I play alone 99% of my Time and I like it, because the fun fact with most Premades is, they are only strong in Group with their Meta Setups. Catch them alone and most of them get rekt in 1v1.

 

They can farm me 15 Times, I don't care, i'll show them the Truth when I catch them alone.

 

honestly, the biggest issue I have with premades isn't even premades. but like...what are you supposed to do when two remotely competent sins conc ops open on you when you yourself don't have guard and heals? WZs are littered with class stacking and groups singling out solos. I'm sure nobody appreciates double nets and trying to do something about two warriors who are going to be immune to anything you do for 2-3 gcd. double AP is aids. AP with trinity in regs is aids. (sh! they don't seem to realize this!)

 

I'm not sure how you actually "fix" this though. forbid stacking classes in a grp? strictly enforce even numbers of each class (per role) in every pop? it just seems incredibly infeasible for regs. more reasonable for solo ranked except you can't do anything if the population is half ops (e.g.).

 

there's just no coordination or care on teams (for the most part). so if a couple ppl are working together, they're going to stomp 80% of the solo players they focus.

Edited by CheesyEZ
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Tonight, during the limited time I played, I noticed no premades. The games were competitive, even though I lost 2 of the three games I played. Fun was had because we had healers. When there are healers and the teams are relatively balanced, I don't care if I win or lose.

 

Last night I won all three games and one was against a premade. Dunno if I was on a premade team, but we had two healers to their one in an AH...and the other team DEFINITELY had a premade. All from the same guild, all focusing one, then another, then another. Coordinated. The healers made the difference. That and, we had the damage.

 

One game I had recently I was second top dps, and the sorcerer was top dps. We lost. My damage was X. The next highest on our team was X/2...LITERALLY (yes, the real meaning of the word). I can post ss if there is question.

We had healers...two of them. I still had fun, but if your team does not have the damage you're not going to win. Balanced games are far more fun, even during losses.

 

I still believe the quest advancement of X2 for winning and X for losing are best. But, I don't even bother with the daily pvp quests anymore because I just don't care. Balanced teams are fun. Even winning when I am getting killed umpteen million times is *NOT* fun. Losing while having an impact and being able to kill and not dying 1,000,001 times *IS* infinitely more fun.

 

So, tldr: balance the teams bioware. :D

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In my experience playing both solo and with my group of friends I am sure that its way easier to win when you are in a premade. Its just a fact that nobody should try to argue agaisnt.

I find it funny to see ppl saying they just want to play with their friends,but most of the times they queue with a full premade(tank,healer, dps). Sorry ,but if u really only play like that you just want easier wins. When I play with my friends I really dont care for their roles and anything cos I really just want to play with em. But even so, we as a premade win most of the time due to everything ppl already said in this thread.

Using the state of the players population in this game as an excuse to not change this system is just what it is: an excuse. Just make a group unranked queue and a solo unranked queue like happens with ranked. If u and ur premade dont get a pop in team unranked and dont want to wait,u are free to queue solo unranked. That way would be much better for everyone but the noobs that need to be in a full premade to be carried. Those ones can try their luck against another premade. Much more fair.

I play in SF and pvp pops all day long.Most of the time its all pug against pug, which is great. Sometimes theres premades you see they just having fun,like when I go with my friends. But there are times u can see the try hard premades joining just for easy wins or bcos they waiting ranked group to start poping,which ruins the experience of most players that are not in a try hard premade.

You wanna talk about population? How about ppl stoping going pvp after they see theres no point to queue just to get ganked by a group of discord coordinated ppl,with all the 3 roles together?Thats what kills the population in pvp. Less and less new players queue bcos they cant compete against those premades.Change it and I'm pretty sure it will be alot more enjoyable and competitive,and more ppl would want to keep doing it,so the pvp population would be bigger.The premades Will still have their place . I personaly wouldnt bother to queue with my premade where only premades can queue. In fact,it would be way better cos I hate easy wins. If I want easy wins I just play pve.lol

I know some pvers dont queue pvp too bcos of that. They dont even bother to queue cos they know it will be only a nightmare to fight against a full group of more experienced pvp players,leading to even lower population in pvp.

So,yes, the way as it is now only favors premades ,which is a problem.But I doubt anything goin to change,so whatever. :)

Edited by DougTheNoob
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The issue has always been the matchmaking putting full pugs vs premades. If the matchmaking worked properly, this subject would never be an issue because premades would only play other premades and pugs would play pugs.

 

But the problem, which has continued to get worse over the years (and will probably accelerate with 7.0) is the loss of population. As it continues to shrink, the worse match making becomes. It won’t be long (in game terms) if the population keeps dropping for regs to start feeling like you’ll need to arrange matches to get pops (some servers are already there).

 

Bioware say they are making changes next year for pvp. But they havent yet announced anything to do with it. I hope that Jackie and the CS team have scoured the pvp forums to look for some good player ideas that have been suggested over the years and also player feed back and sentiment of the current pvp eco system.

 

Here’s an idea I posted the other day to specifically address the dwindling population issues for ranked and regs. Of course it’s not perfect and the idea is a compromise, but I hope Bioware are considering something like this idea (that’s not entirely mine) to help improve the health and functionality of all pvp.

 

I don’t think this game has enough players these days to seperate the small numbers into solo ranked, group ranked and mixed regs.

 

If Bioware wants ranked players to have numbers or proper competition, then they need to consider a different alternative to what we currently have.

 

The solution is to remove the “ranked” moniker from the name and seperate all arena and objective pvp into just 2 queues. Then add a public rating system to all pvpers once you’re in the top 200 that refers to an arena rating and an objective rating (it could stay private until you hit the the top 200).

 

You can still have your seasons and your bronze, silver, gold and top 3s from arena, but you can also have it for objective pvp. This also adds an incentive for players to get better or play properly in objective pvp.

 

This way you remove the stigma of ranked because it’s all just pvp in this game. There is no separation between regs and rank populations. You just have arena or objective pvp and you can choose your preferred type of play.

 

The top players will still vie for the top places and rewards in arena (plus objective pvp) and lower tiered players should hardly ever run into them unless the queue numbers are really low.

 

Of course for that to work in objective pvp and be fair, you’d need to get rid of group / premade queuing or have a seperate group queue (which defeats the purpose of combining the population). At first some people who like Premade go to stomp pugs will complain, but the over all health of pvp will improve and they will come around when they see the games can be more fun and balanced.

 

snip

The situation within the game has changed in that we no longer have the player numbers for fair or balanced games with premades and the matchmaking.

 

The reason for my post was to address another issue entirely to do with ranked and unbalanced matchmaking. And the way to do that is to amalgamate ranked and regs and do away with so many queues.

 

But there is a hurdle if you want to do that because you need to make it fair if you want to have real competition (like ranked). That is why there are two queues for ranked. A solo queue and a group queue.

 

Of course in a game that had plenty of players, you would have 4 queues in a system I’m suggesting.

1. Solo Arena

2. Group Arena

3. Solo Objective

4. Group Objective

 

Except that is not feasible due to low player numbers. So the way forward is to make a concession if Bioware want to improve the system to make it more fair and balanced across the pvp eco system.

 

That concession is making 2 queues only. And sadly, the only way to make that work in a competitive environment is to do away with grouping. Which only leaves 2 choices.

1. Arena (solo)

2. Objective (solo)

 

I would even suggest Bioware merge lowbies into the 2 queues and give all players access to max lvl abilities and gear while in pvp (as I’ve suggested in other threads).

 

You can still play with your friends and try and queue sync. Of course some of you might be on different teams sometimes, but you can still chat together on voice or make your own custom txt channel. It’s actually fun playing against your friends as well as having them on your team.

 

If you would quit so easily over changes like this that would improve pvp as a whole, then I don’t think you like playing fair pvp that much to start with.

Sounds more like you prefer ganking solo players than having competitive games and getting a better quality of matches.

Edited by TrixxieTriss
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The issue has always been the matchmaking putting full pugs vs premades. If the matchmaking worked properly, this subject would never be an issue because premades would only play other premades and pugs would play pugs.

 

But the problem, which has continued to get worse over the years (and will probably accelerate with 7.0) is the loss of population. As the it continues to shrink, the worse match making becomes. It won’t be long (in game terms) if the population keeps dropping for regs to start feeling like you’ll need to arrange matches to get pops (some servers are already there).

 

Bioware say they are making changes next year for pvp. But they havent yet announced anything to do with it. I hope that Jackie and the CS team have scoured the pvp forums to look for some good player ideas that have been suggested over the years and also player feed back and sentiment of the current pvp eco system.

 

Here’s an idea I posted the other day to specifically address the dwindling population issues for ranked and regs. Of course it’s not perfect and the idea is a compromise, but I hope Bioware are considering something like this idea (that’s not entirely mine) to help improve the health and functionality of all pvp.

 

Trixxie for president.

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I play in SF and pvp pops all day long.Most of the time its all pug against pug, which is great. Sometimes theres premades you see they just having fun,like when I go with my friends. But there are times u can see the try hard premades joining just for easy wins or bcos they waiting ranked group to start poping,which ruins the experience of most players that are not in a try hard premade

 

so much of this is wrong.

 

I too play on SF, and chances are I play a lot more than you (3-6 hrs per day...yeah, I know. no life.). there are premades in almost every single WZ.

 

the premades that actually try to win are usually not even the "good" premades. you get some middling premades like <kitten's empire> or <vex> who try to win. but most of the hard hitters (e.g., <indica> or some of the old LD50s could care less and just move to wherever the most red plates are and blow-up players one at a time in clinical fashion). cflems has complained about <reign of darkness> premades that do this. they aren't try hards. they don't even care about winning at all. what game are you playing?

 

the greatest tryhards are tanks like fluxs or ops like juricane or me (anything with cheese legacy). and we're almost always solo. oh yeah...mr. <truck you> seems to be solo a lot.

 

the vast majority of premades that actually try to winare limp and can be overcome by slightly similar number of solos on the other team...should you find that many players who even care about winning in the first place. btw: when my guild premades (with or without me), it's more fun tunneling my guildmates. we do it to each other all the time.

 

the problem isn't premades being tryhards. it's players in general not caring about wins. but then again...it's regs. why so serious? your complaining is just going to result in more idiotic restrictions like the deserter debuff and the wins-only thing.

 

honestly, WTH is going on with these queues???? I get Quesh for the 2nd time in a row after having 2 vandins and I can't even leave at the spawn b/c I'm going to be banned from everything for 15 mins. Quesh is absolute garbage. it's not even a good TDM map. it's just fish in a barrel. and hey, I like VS and AHG, but after the 4th or 5th in a row, I shouldn't be punished for leaving.

 

all the deserter debuff has done from my perspective is ruined life for players trying to play the game as intended and given players looking to fluff the dmg meters more meat for the grinder. then again, at least half the population of any given WZ seems not to care about winning anymore...or is completely incompetent (ty GS).

Edited by CheesyEZ
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Haha, I actually like Queshball. The main problem is people don't know how to look up :D

 

I mean...you can't leap to snipers under cover at all. but you also can't leap to anyone on the EZ ledge. and that's not even by design. it's just a permanent "glitch" of this ridiculously bad map. I've seen some VG charge up there. no idea if it's just a "fun fact of life" for maras or what. I'm also told it only happens occasionally, but it's every. single. time. for me. so I've stopped trying. if we could just get the DMing on the bottom, it would be cool. when it pops on my sent, I just roll my eyes and boil an egg or something.

 

the fact that absolute chumps (like really bad mercs) just sit on that ledge and unload....on top of the area control snipers can exert. iunno. man. when I get on my merc, I have the balls to at least drop onto the ground and kite.

 

iunno. livid hate for that map and, by proxy, the faceless BW "human beings" who decided to put it back into the rotation and continue to leave it there.

 

edit: also, in spawn waiting for the arena countdown to start in Mandalorian Battle Ring, I did a "rocket out" on my merc from one side of the spawn area to the other (where to consoles are), and instant-death. gawd. whoever is coding this stuff don't know what they're doing. eliminate the stuff the engine can't handle or fix your maps. it's not "rocket science" (or is it?).

Edited by CheesyEZ
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Haha, I actually like Queshball. The main problem is people don't know how to look up :D

 

I liked the map too till they broke it.

 

You can’t use force leap into the end zone is a killer for Juggs (and a pain for every other gap closing class) and the speed Nerf Bioware added when carrying the ball is criminal. Add the excessive desync and the fact that operatives can get the ball and be nearly unstoppable makes it one of the worst maps for me now. I went from loving it to hating it.

 

But you are right. People don’t look up and they don’t pass up either. Not only that but mist don’t even try to play Huttball anymore. They just DM the whole match.

 

The classes that dominate Quesh ball are operatives, MM snipers and Mercs/Sorcs. If you aren’t on one of those classes and want to play properly it’s painful and totally unenjoyable.

Edited by TrixxieTriss
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The classes that dominate Quesh ball are operatives, MM snipers and Mercs/Sorcs. If you aren’t on one of those classes and want to play properly it’s painful and totally unenjoyable.

 

 

If there was a competitive Hutball league mercs and snipers would not be picked. They don't bring anything useful utility wise. The team would look something like this

 

Jug Tank- Protect ball carrier

2 Conceal OP- Ball Runners

1 Mara-Predation is enough to have 1

2 Sorc- Pulls heals

2 AP PT- Pulls Burst DPS

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If there was a competitive Hutball league mercs and snipers would not be picked. They don't bring anything useful utility wise. The team would look something like this

 

Jug Tank- Protect ball carrier

2 Conceal OP- Ball Runners

1 Mara-Predation is enough to have 1

2 Sorc- Pulls heals

2 AP PT- Pulls Burst DPS

 

Anyone who used to play ranked Huttball would agree. Sadly, people don’t play Huttball properly anymore and it’s all about DMing.

So they all get on their MM snipers like turrets and surround the ball respawn in OHB and Vandin. In QB they sit on the ledge or pipes and free cast while ball carriers run behind them to score.

Add the bugs, dysnc and slow mechanic and it makes for a very unpleasant match that you can’t leave because of a stupid deserter penalty.

 

What cracks me up is when I get a QB pop while on my engineering sniper and I have to run the ball cause none of the operatives, maras, Juggs and Sorcs on my team will pick up the ball. So I’m already on the least mobile class in the game and I score most of the goals in the game.

Edited by TrixxieTriss
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Any class can be effective in Huttball. It's regs, and if you have even half a clue of what you're doing, you're 50% ahead of the game.

 

I don't understand threads like this. If there's an a*****e premade in queue, I go find something else to do until they get bored. Does anyone seriously think any developer is going to exclude people who group up and play together in an MMO?

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