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Light Side(Jedi Counsulor) is excruciatingly dull(possible spoilers).

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Light Side(Jedi Counsulor) is excruciatingly dull(possible spoilers).

ceryxp's Avatar


ceryxp
05.27.2021 , 04:02 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Hrafnhildur View Post
Personally i do not understand this intense hatred for Zenith.. what's wrong with the guy? Everyone,but absolutely everyone hates him and i find this a bit hypocritical , since everyone loves Kanaan, Ezra,Ahsoka and Hera - they are rebels and anti-Empire too, remember?
True, they are all rebels who are anti-Empire. But Zenith has no compassion for people just trying to survive. Zenith is willing to throw people under the bus if it is good for Zenith. Zenith embodies the "with me or against me" mentality. That does not apply to Kanan, Erzra, Ahsoka, or Hera.

Every class has a companion or two who embody the traits that are antithetical to the expected trajectory of the class story. The Consular is expected to the light, or at least light grey, and Zenith, and to a lesser extent Qyzen, is the dark side Consular companion.
≈~≈~≈~≈~≈ ≈~≈~≈~≈~≈ ≈~≈~≈~≈~≈ ≈~≈~≈~≈~≈ ≈~≈~≈~≈~≈ ≈~≈~≈~≈~≈
Just your average, opinionated, disabled, queer gaymer.

Hrafnhildur's Avatar


Hrafnhildur
05.28.2021 , 01:51 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by ceryxp View Post
True, they are all rebels who are anti-Empire. But Zenith has no compassion for people just trying to survive. Zenith is willing to throw people under the bus if it is good for Zenith. Zenith embodies the "with me or against me" mentality. That does not apply to Kanan, Erzra, Ahsoka, or Hera.

Every class has a companion or two who embody the traits that are antithetical to the expected trajectory of the class story. The Consular is expected to the light, or at least light grey, and Zenith, and to a lesser extent Qyzen, is the dark side Consular companion.
As i said in another topic, he is not easy to understand. Still, he is, till some extent, loyal to the Consular, personally i like that part. Still, there is no reason for him to be completely excluded from future action, a good story requires controversy and a few dark characters, otherwise it would be dull.
Besides, you were warned about him since the beginning, when Tai Cordan described Zenith as a " blunt instrument", so you knew exactly what you're getting into.
And again, strictly as a personal opinion, my JC would very much prefer to have him as the active in the story companion instead of Tau Udair/ Arn Peralun. Why? "The devil you know".
Siegwalde Ykir

JJKerryee's Avatar


JJKerryee
05.28.2021 , 11:57 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by ceryxp View Post
True, they are all rebels who are anti-Empire. But Zenith has no compassion for people just trying to survive. Zenith is willing to throw people under the bus if it is good for Zenith. Zenith embodies the "with me or against me" mentality. That does not apply to Kanan, Erzra, Ahsoka, or Hera.

Every class has a companion or two who embody the traits that are antithetical to the expected trajectory of the class story. The Consular is expected to the light, or at least light grey, and Zenith, and to a lesser extent Qyzen, is the dark side Consular companion.
I have to say that after recently doing a playthrough of the consular story and bringing Zenith along with me everywhere, I don't see him like that at all.

Zenith is extremely passionate about people who are just trying to survive, hell he knows better than anyone what those people go through, he cares deeply about balmorrans and other refugees of the Empire. (Not to mention his obsession with ensuring the consular is safe.) After playing through all of the planetary quests and paying attention to what he approved and disapproved, Zenith simply has no mercy for imperials, and it makes sense due to what they did to his homeworld, he's obviously deeply scarred with it.

Saying that he would "throw people under the bus if it is good for Zenith", doesn't correlate with what I saw with him at all, in fact, Zenith would disapprove every time I decided not to help someone and would approve every time I decided to help right away. Bluntly put, he doesn't believe in second chances, he doesn't believe in forgiveness and he does see things a bit too black and white when they are a lot more gray, but ultimately I would say his heart is in the right place if a bit broken because of his past.

To be honest, I never got why so many dislike this character so much and after doing a full playthrough of the story with him, I understand it even less. I would personally say he is one of the most interesting companions the consular has.
Retreat is not weakness, it is strategy.

ceryxp's Avatar


ceryxp
05.28.2021 , 01:45 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by JJKerryee View Post
I have to say that after recently doing a playthrough of the consular story and bringing Zenith along with me everywhere, I don't see him like that at all.

Zenith is extremely passionate about people who are just trying to survive, hell he knows better than anyone what those people go through, he cares deeply about balmorrans and other refugees of the Empire. (Not to mention his obsession with ensuring the consular is safe.) After playing through all of the planetary quests and paying attention to what he approved and disapproved, Zenith simply has no mercy for imperials, and it makes sense due to what they did to his homeworld, he's obviously deeply scarred with it.

Saying that he would "throw people under the bus if it is good for Zenith", doesn't correlate with what I saw with him at all, in fact, Zenith would disapprove every time I decided not to help someone and would approve every time I decided to help right away. Bluntly put, he doesn't believe in second chances, he doesn't believe in forgiveness and he does see things a bit too black and white when they are a lot more gray, but ultimately I would say his heart is in the right place if a bit broken because of his past.

To be honest, I never got why so many dislike this character so much and after doing a full playthrough of the story with him, I understand it even less. I would personally say he is one of the most interesting companions the consular has.
Most of that is derived from Zenith's story. I think a lot of people get turned off by Zenith on Balmorra, your very first interaction has Zenith wanting to kill someone in cold blood, and then they see what happens during their story, and that gives a strong impression. In Zenith's story they are willing to use blackmail, deceit, and lies to further their own goals, they show a lack of compassion for people who were in a bad situation and had to make tough choices for their families, and are then blasť about the fallout. If one's interactions with Zenith do not extend beyond the ship, and are entirely formed by Zenith's story and their reactions to choices made during on-ship cutscenes, it is entirely understandable why some come to the conclusion that they do.

I am hopeful that we will see some character growth in Zenith when we are reunited, but from the snippet presaging Zenith's return that we have received it seems like Zenith has merely fallen back into fighting the same old battles, and that will likely mean that Zenith has not grown as a person.
≈~≈~≈~≈~≈ ≈~≈~≈~≈~≈ ≈~≈~≈~≈~≈ ≈~≈~≈~≈~≈ ≈~≈~≈~≈~≈ ≈~≈~≈~≈~≈
Just your average, opinionated, disabled, queer gaymer.

JJKerryee's Avatar


JJKerryee
05.28.2021 , 04:32 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by ceryxp View Post
Most of that is derived from Zenith's story. I think a lot of people get turned off by Zenith on Balmorra, your very first interaction has Zenith wanting to kill someone in cold blood, and then they see what happens during their story, and that gives a strong impression. In Zenith's story they are willing to use blackmail, deceit, and lies to further their own goals, they show a lack of compassion for people who were in a bad situation and had to make tough choices for their families, and are then blasť about the fallout. If one's interactions with Zenith do not extend beyond the ship, and are entirely formed by Zenith's story and their reactions to choices made during on-ship cutscenes, it is entirely understandable why some come to the conclusion that they do.

I am hopeful that we will see some character growth in Zenith when we are reunited, but from the snippet presaging Zenith's return that we have received it seems like Zenith has merely fallen back into fighting the same old battles, and that will likely mean that Zenith has not grown as a person.
Well, I believe context is key here. He wants to murder someone in cold blood...who literally just tried to murder you in cold blood. And, although I convinced him to forgive the refugees, let's not sugar-coat things, "the families who had to make tough choices" are, in fact, traitors to their people that to ensure their own safety betrayed their planet and lead to thousands of balmorran deaths, so I don't think it's really fair to make them out to be simple "families in a tough situation". Zenith's anger when he learns the truth is completely understandable.

About the rest, although I'm not so sure it will be the case, I would also like to see some character growth for Zenith when he comes back.
Retreat is not weakness, it is strategy.

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rumpol
06.07.2021 , 04:47 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by JJKerryee View Post
Well, I believe context is key here. He wants to murder someone in cold blood...who literally just tried to murder you in cold blood. And, although I convinced him to forgive the refugees, let's not sugar-coat things, "the families who had to make tough choices" are, in fact, traitors to their people that to ensure their own safety betrayed their planet and lead to thousands of balmorran deaths, so I don't think it's really fair to make them out to be simple "families in a tough situation". Zenith's anger when he learns the truth is completely understandable.

About the rest, although I'm not so sure it will be the case, I would also like to see some character growth for Zenith when he comes back.
Ah come on. They were families who wanted to not see their kids die from starvation. Maintaining at least decent relations with the Empire was the only way the majority of families on Balmorra were going to survive. Zenith shouldn't be blaming them, he should be blaming the Republic.

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AshaSanlo
06.08.2021 , 08:59 AM | #27
I actually really loved this storyline. It does involve more politics and diplomacy than action, but that's what I liked about it, and what I found unique about it. This was the one character I played that I felt worked hard to embody the ideals of peace in the Jedi Code. I thought it was fun playing a character that wasn't always looking for a militant solution. Also, I love Felix. I actually really liked all of this characters companions.

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AshaSanlo
06.08.2021 , 09:02 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by rumpol View Post
Ah come on. They were families who wanted to not see their kids die from starvation. Maintaining at least decent relations with the Empire was the only way the majority of families on Balmorra were going to survive. Zenith shouldn't be blaming them, he should be blaming the Republic.
That's just the way Zenith is. He's a jerk. I love him, but his idea of being "nice" is not shooting to kill.

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JJKerryee
06.08.2021 , 08:42 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by rumpol View Post
Ah come on. They were families who wanted to not see their kids die from starvation. Maintaining at least decent relations with the Empire was the only way the majority of families on Balmorra were going to survive. Zenith shouldn't be blaming them, he should be blaming the Republic.
Just because the situation was difficult that doesn't erase the consequences of their actions: so they could survive, thousands more died. I simply believe Zenith's rage is justified when he discovers the truth. It would also be good to point out there's a difference between "maintaining at least decent relations with the Empire" and betraying their comrades which ends up leading to their deaths. Ultimately, we don't have enough information about the subject: were they tortured, or did they do it to get a better life under imperial occupation? Very different scenarios.

I also fail to see why the Republic should be blamed and the Empire not, you know the faction who actually occupied, tortured, murdered, and terrorized the inhabitants of Balmorra.
Retreat is not weakness, it is strategy.

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rumpol
06.11.2021 , 06:02 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by JJKerryee View Post
Just because the situation was difficult that doesn't erase the consequences of their actions: so they could survive, thousands more died. I simply believe Zenith's rage is justified when he discovers the truth. It would also be good to point out there's a difference between "maintaining at least decent relations with the Empire" and betraying their comrades which ends up leading to their deaths. Ultimately, we don't have enough information about the subject: were they tortured, or did they do it to get a better life under imperial occupation? Very different scenarios.

I also fail to see why the Republic should be blamed and the Empire not, you know the faction who actually occupied, tortured, murdered, and terrorized the inhabitants of Balmorra.
Zeniths actions are absolutely not justified. He, in fact, acts the same way as the Empire. He doesn't care about the reasons, if you dealt in any way with the Empire, you are a traitor and deserve to be killed.