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Level Sync Update


ChrisSchmidt

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It's obvious isn't it? It is needed so the general population doesn't realize there is no new content because without scaling you'd be able to one hit world bosses on 90% of the planets! There is no new content, it works in WoW because they actually have more than 2h worth of planet progression (or zone)!

 

Imagine how boring this game would be if you could blow anything away "yeah that ancient dude, the one from you yavin you remember him? I aoe'd him down" is just not fun.

 

Also I am a broken record at this point but literally all they have to do is make presence unscaled on planets again so the general population doesn't have to play anymore, because quite obviously they just want to watch their companion win.

 

I have no idea what any of this has to do with PvP. Open world PvP is not existend, it will never be again.

 

You do sound like a broken record indeed. It has nothing to do with companions, It's about tertiary stats being capped. The heroics don't become any more "difficult" with that, just a boring slog. Boring slog is not fun. It doesn't make anyone a better player, it just makes them quit.

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You do sound like a broken record indeed. It has nothing to do with companions, It's about tertiary stats being capped. The heroics don't become any more "difficult" with that, just a boring slog. Boring slog is not fun. It doesn't make anyone a better player, it just makes them quit.

 

Exactly what I am talking about, it is the same issue. Companions being bad and stats being capped is 100% related and the same problem.

 

Furthermore, if it's a slog the easiest solution would be to just do more damage which in return would be a skill issue.

 

Either way: it doesn't matter, it's just heroics.

Edited by ZUHFB
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Exactly what I am talking about, it is the same issue. Companions being bad and stats being capped is 100% related and the same problem.

 

Furthermore, if it's a slog the easiest solution would be to just do more damage which in return would be a skill issue.

 

Either way: it doesn't matter, it's just heroics.

 

I don't care about companions, I'm talking about tertiary stats. I grinded for gear, I want it matter. Gear have tertiary stats such as accuracy, alacrity and crit. Missing hits and abilities triggering slower because crucial stats are capped has nothing to do with skill and you know it. No-one in their right mind would defend a system that makes something like heroics a boring slog when more and more people quit the game every day because game is not fun anymore. We need more players, not less.

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I don't care about companions, I'm talking about tertiary stats. I grinded for gear, I want it matter. Gear have tertiary stats such as accuracy, alacrity and crit. Missing hits and abilities triggering slower because crucial stats are capped has nothing to do with skill and you know it. No-one in their right mind would defend a system that makes something like heroics a boring slog when more and more people quit the game every day because game is not fun anymore. We need more players, not less.

 

Again, stats being capped and companions being bad is the same core issue - the stat scaling.

 

There is nothing "crucial" about those stats but I 100% agree that gear should matter.

 

You can 100% be more faster if you just play better, it has absolutly to do with skill.

 

Players aren't quitting because they have 20% less crit on idk Tatooine, they quit because there is no content - like none at all.

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Again, stats being capped and companions being bad is the same core issue - the stat scaling.

 

There is nothing "crucial" about those stats but I 100% agree that gear should matter.

 

Really? Then why do we have tertiary stats in the game? I thought you would have known for example how 110% accuracy is needed to not miss interrupts on crucial game mechanics. Or that you would have known that alacrity defines how fast the abilities can be used. You sure pretend well to know how the game works, but claiming silly things like that says you don't.

 

You can 100% be more faster if you just play better, it has absolutly to do with skill.

 

And that is a lie. The capped stats are MATHS. It has nothing to do with skill. I get that you want people who enjoy heroics and who do not meet your standards on how to play leave the game, but calling people bad because they can't fight MATH is pretty low. You should know better.

 

If you put two people to hit same type of NPC with same rotation, one having correct tertiary stats and one without, the one with correct stats will win, every time. They don't miss and they can hit in faster pace than the guy who didn't have those stats. That's plain and simple maths and it has nothing do with skill.

 

I asked you earlier: did you get good by doing heroics? You never replied to that. Please tell us how to become a better player without accuracy and alacrity, how does that help in learning a rotation? If you'd want people to "get better", you should advocate proper stats on all content, because that's the only way to practise rotation apart from dummy parsing.

 

 

Players aren't quitting because they have 20% less crit on idk Tatooine, they quit because there is no content - like none at all.

 

Heroics are content and making them slower and grindier with capped tertiary stats does make people quit. You also seem to forget that there are other content on planets, such as world bosses and enemy bases.

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Really? Then why do we have tertiary stats in the game? I thought you would have known for example how 110% accuracy is needed to not miss interrupts on crucial game mechanics. Or that you would have known that alacrity defines how fast the abilities can be used. You sure pretend well to know how the game works, but claiming silly things like that says you don't.

 

It's fine if you disagree, obviously the stats matter. However, they do not in heroics. Furthermore this couldn't be a problem since the game does indeed give you the 110% accuracy on most planets, I think all of them even.

Alacrity does not infact define how fast abilities can be used, I mean - it does yes, but it also determines the CDs of bigger cooldowns like explosive fuel or polarity shift, but it does not do that for all of them. Deflection for example does not get it's cooldown lowered by alacrity while overcharged saber does. But again, this just does not matter at all because you would still use the same amount of GCDs you would do anyway. This makes you what? 0.3s faster per trash group? Killing them one GCD faster by e.g. hardcasting CL vs. spamming lightning storm will save you 2 or more GCDs making you 3s (or more) faster, per trashpack. So it does indeed have everything to do with skill and not stats.

 

And that is a lie. The capped stats are MATHS. It has nothing to do with skill. I get that you want people who enjoy heroics and who do not meet your standards on how to play leave the game, but calling people bad because they can't fight MATH is pretty low. You should know better.

 

Absolutely not what I intended to say. Quite obviously most players don't care how fast they get through heroics, otherwise why would they be clicking? Either way, people can play the game they want - if this includes being bad that's fine but you will have to live with the fact that somebody who did put in time into improving their gameplay, stats will NEVER in any content compensate this difference.

 

If you put two people to hit same type of NPC with same rotation, one having correct tertiary stats and one without, the one with correct stats will win, every time. They don't miss and they can hit in faster pace than the guy who didn't have those stats. That's plain and simple maths and it has nothing do with skill.

 

Well, on average you are correct. But 1. Since you specified math: you would infact not always win due to crit luck and 2. why do you assume they have the same rotation? This implies that you can do a heroics run without any mistakes which is quite frankly impossible since the theorycrafting needed to do this would be insane, playing correct down to every GCD over the course of 15min is next to impossible and not even the best raiders will achieve this. However high end raiders will almost always have a near perfect fight, but fully perfect? No, never.

 

I asked you earlier: did you get good by doing heroics? You never replied to that. Please tell us how to become a better player without accuracy and alacrity, how does that help in learning a rotation? If you'd want people to "get better", you should advocate proper stats on all content, because that's the only way to practise rotation apart from dummy parsing.

 

Because learning the rotation is the very very very basics of any class in the game, if you yolo rofl stomp the rotation to a boss and think that the only thing setting you apart from the top people is gear you are very mistaken. It's not executing it perfectly, it's infact executing it inperfectly so you can delay cooldowns for higher DPS phases and then "steal" dps from other players. This is why they are on top of the parse, not because they play perfectly - but because they quite literally steal DPS. If all players of a team do this nobody will get a good parse.

 

Heroics are content and making them slower and grindier with capped tertiary stats does make people quit. You also seem to forget that there are other content on planets, such as world bosses and enemy bases.

 

World bosses are fun yeah! I actually agree but on a world boss your stats just don't matter, a bigger improvement would be keybinds or just straight up another player. It is not, and shouldn't be, content that the game is balanced around. Yes, not having the alacrity is a bummer, having your gear be useless is... stupid? Like why play if your gear doesn't matter but at the same time there is no new content you could do -> alt f4

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It's fine if you disagree, obviously the stats matter. However, they do not in heroics. Furthermore this couldn't be a problem since the game does indeed give you the 110% accuracy on most planets, I think all of them even.

 

No the game does not "give" you 110% accuracy.

 

By sheer dumb luck, accuracy stims escape the downgrade of stats so when you're on a level 10 planet you have this huge chunk of accuracy stat that isn't getting downgraded therefore you are easily put over 110%.

 

However in a future patch the game will respect your accuracy % whether it uses a stim or not and you keep the accuracy % you have at max level through any downgraded content.

Edited by Gyronamics
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World bosses are fun yeah! I actually agree but on a world boss your stats just don't matter, a bigger improvement would be keybinds or just straight up another player. It is not, and shouldn't be, content that the game is balanced around. Yes, not having the alacrity is a bummer, having your gear be useless is... stupid? Like why play if your gear doesn't matter but at the same time there is no new content you could do -> alt f4

 

 

Stats matter in WB fights. Obviously I'm not talking about NS and Hoth level of world bosses, but fun stuff like Nightmare Pilgrim and Ancient Threat. It's not just the dps stats that get capped, tanks really need their shield and absorb, and healers really need alacrity and crit. Considering you also have to tackle the fps drop on those fights, would be nice to have at least the gear make a difference.

 

For the last sentence of your post: I don't play that much now. I am fully geared and I only log in for raids. But even those are getting cancelled on regular basis now because too many people quit playing. It would be pointless for me to do anything else in game now, because I'm capped with pretty much all currencies. So for me it's not just the lack of content that makes me log off swtor and play something else, it's the currency caps . If I'm not getting mission rewards because arbitrary currency caps, I just play other games instead.

 

So my reasons why I don't currently enjoy the game outside of raiding:

 

1) currency caps

2) not being able to gear alts because the gear grind is too much and too complicated

3) when I play something other than ops (heroics, dailies), the gear I had to grind for doesn't matter

4) lack of content: with this I don't mean just new content, I also mean old content that is overtuned or can't be found from mission terminals to get the weekly, or can't be finished on one character, which is the current requirement to finish the weekly

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No the game does not "give" you 110% accuracy.

 

By sheer dumb luck, accuracy stims escape the downgrade of stats so when you're on a level 10 planet you have this huge chunk of accuracy stat that isn't getting downgraded therefore you are easily put over 110%.

 

However in a future patch the game will respect your accuracy % whether it uses a stim or not and you keep the accuracy % you have at max level through any downgraded content.

 

Ahh, I did not know that - thanks for clarifying

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Hi folks,

 

I wanted to chat about the history of Bolster, how it’s evolved over the years into what is now known as our new Level Sync system, and how we’ve been tuning and adjusting Level Sync based on your feedback. One note on terminology: I’m going to refer to Bolster as the pre-7.0 technology and Level Sync as the post-7.0 technology. We’ve used several terms interchangeably over the years, but for the purposes of this post I’m referring to the technology difference between the two.

 

In the 4.0 release, we introduced the concept of Bolster throughout the wider game. It was previously launched to specifically address PvP Warzone balance in order to help undergeared players, but the 4.0 release brought the feature to PvE content. When your character visited a planet they had completed the story on, we shifted the character level down to a range we expected players to be in for that planet. Bolster enabled the game to give better and more relevant rewards for high level players going back to older content. We could finally reward max level characters with useful items or currency, whereas previously they would receive rewards far below their actual level.

 

The reverse was also true: we could Bolster players upwards in order to give more content options to lower level players. This mostly occurred in PvP Warzones in order to keep the queues more active and provide a better Warzone experience for those players in the lower levels.

 

Unfortunately, this implementation of Bolster brought a host of problems with it. To peel back the curtain a bit, that system relied on applying an ability on the player, and that ability would dictate the level and stat scaling to apply to the player. All of this data was defined by hand in tables, with specific stats defined per planet or per difficulty level per piece of content. Not only was this difficult to maintain and update, but it introduced a host of bugs and undesirable problems that we worked hard over the years to address. Sometimes lower level mods would actually provide better stats in PvP, for example. Or the Bolster ability would fail to apply in Operations or Flashpoints leaving one or more players over leveled for the content, and introducing exploits that allowed players to reliably force the bug and easily complete content balanced for several levels below their own.

 

This implementation also limited the ideas we had for the future of repeatable content, so for 7.0 we invested in modernizing our Bolster system, and effectively removed it and replaced it with the current Level Sync system.

 

Level Sync works from a new codebase that is more predictable and less prone to exploitative behavior. Designers can effectively enter item rating ranges per planet/piece of content, and the NPCs in that content are using the same scaling and stat ranges, making the balance relationship more predictable. This was a large change, so it required lots of per-content testing and iteration. We made this change last fall and it went through several PTS iterations. We were able to address lots of balance feedback back then and continue to do so to this day across the game in order to get the system feeling better with each iteration.

 

With this new system came a few side effects that removed some of the quirks of the older Bolster system. One oddity we solved was the way primary stats were scaled in the old Bolster system, especially when leveled down. They were far from accurate, and the system merely capped stats, so everyone over the defined thresholds had identical stats. With the Level Sync system, primary stats are actually scaled downwards according to how much of each stat characters have equipped. So if you have a high Mastery build, you should see more Mastery than another player who is running a high Endurance build in the same scaled content.

 

One side effect of the new system is all stats are scaled down when Level Synced. Under the Bolster system, tertiary stats such as Accuracy, Critical Rating, and Alacrity were never scaled. This had both advantages and disadvantages to how players would experience content. The plus side is Accuracy and Alacrity thresholds that players had taken care to optimize would be maintained when playing lower level content. But stats like Crit not scaling made older content more trivial than intended, which set the wrong expectation for game balance when facing other players in other modes such as PvP, or NPCs in Operations, and Master Mode Flashpoints.

We intend to update the new system to maintain Accuracy and Alacrity thresholds when scaled up or down in a future update. This would be very similar to how the old system worked for Accuracy and Alacrity specifically.

 

Another side effect involves Relics. These typically provide extra stats when they are activated or trigger on their own. As all stats now scale in Level Synced content, there currently isn’t a method to scale the extra stats provided by Relics, so they currently provide no stat bonuses when activated or triggered while Level Synced. We’ve been working on resolving this problem and intend to address it in a future update.

 

There is similar behavior with Augments and Color Crystals. We identified some issues both internally and thanks to your feedback on the PTS servers where it was possible to manipulate Augments and Color Crystals to provide huge stat bonuses outside of the bounds of the system. We have identified the root cause of these bugs, and have been working on solutions to both, to be introduced in future updates.

 

Finally, we’ve had a couple of issues prevalent in PvP modes that we’ve identified and fixed incrementally over several updates.

 

PvP Warzones and Arenas in 7.0 introduced a valid item rating range in level 80 matches. The Level Sync system was intended to allow players with gear from 318 through 326 to compete and upgrade their gear, while synching down players with higher gear (such as 330 gear) to the ceiling of 326. The system was also intended to reduce the stats and effectiveness for equipped gear below the 318 minimum threshold, such as 306 gear.

 

Once 7.0 launched, players noticed they were not less effective wearing 306 gear in level 80 Warzones and Arenas, and in fact in some cases their equipped stats were the same or better than 326 gear. We found the root cause of this bug and resolved this odd behavior in the 7.0.1 patch.

 

We have also determined the root cause of a bug that was causing item ratings in Level Synced content to be inaccurately computed. This didn’t result in major stat changes, but was the cause of some stats appearing to be worse after the 7.0.1 update in content that was Level Synced, and also that players with better than 326 gear in Warzones and Arenas had a slight stat advantage. We have a fix to this bug coming in the 7.0.2 update.

 

One last thing I wanted to address is companions, and their effectiveness in combat. The root cause for companions suddenly becoming worse tanks or not drawing aggro or dealing damage as expected was a bug in how their base stats were applied when loading into a planet or area. This caused some of their stats to be missing or inaccurate, which made things like their taunt ability or area of effect damage abilities miss their target NPC every time. The fix for the companion issue is also coming in the 7.0.2 update.

 

An additional note on companions and their effectiveness: the Presence base stat does scale in Level Synced content to reflect the amount of base Presence a player would expect to have in that level range. This would apply to Presence earned through character level-up and from equipment. However, the system does not scale any bonus Presence earned from raising the influence levels of companions, so companions with high influence levels will always be more effective across all content where companions can be used.

 

All of the fixes described above for the 7.0.2 update can be currently seen on the PTS, and we continue to keep an eye on your reports and experiences both in the live game and the PTS server. We made over 100 balance tweaks and adjustments to existing content thanks to your feedback in the 7.0 PTS cycles, and continue to address any areas as they are reported by players, our internal testing, and our own playthroughs of the game.

 

Hopefully this post sheds a bit of light on some of the issues and resolutions with Level Sync in the game. We’re still very excited about the content possibilities unlocked by modernizing this huge and fundamental system of the game.

 

Thanks!

-Chris

 

EDIT on 4/28/22: Follow up post for further clarification on what was included in 7.0.2.

 

I am no one special, Just a subscriber who has been playing off and on since launch.

 

For the life of me i cannot understand the thoughts implemented in the questing flow? Do you think most people want to struggle to survive every quest? spend 20 minutes on each quest? Do you not know most pick a stealth class to bypass the 90 mobs you put in the quest area just to not fight them? i spent 1 hr just to do a heroic and the health and damage was so off that the previous heroic appeared to be 20 levels lower do to balance issues.

 

Bioware is in the business to make money surely they must care? i play this game for the story, which is great but the Balance and mechanics are terrible.

 

as i said i am just a subscriber, and will probably be ignored but if Bioware wants my money they will fix the Balancing issue and leave the hard content for flashpoints and ops.

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I just logged onto the PTS. What I did notice is that the acc and ala 'tertiary stats' are now 'not' being scaled. I went to several planets, and they did reflect what the actual values were as noted on the fleet station. Crit is still being scaled.

 

Presence was still not reflecting all the value.

 

It did make a difference in game play on several heroics and dailies.

 

I also noted better gear drops on the bosses as well.

 

Hopefully these will be some of the changes in the upcoming update next week.

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Why is crit still being scaled? is the concept of a percentage so hard to grasp?

 

Personally I have no problem with it. However I know that with full 330 gear and full 286 augments. I should be able to gain more critical stat in story content and flashpoints rather than being granted a flat stat set by Bioware regardless of my augments or my stims. It should scale according to your actual gears stats in some way. Obviously higher gear rating and end game augments should give you higher critical stat in story content and flashpoints. It feels like I am being penalized when my gear isn't able to reach it's full potential in ALL content in the game.

Edited by ReveredDead
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I don't care about companions, I'm talking about tertiary stats. I grinded for gear, I want it matter. Gear have tertiary stats such as accuracy, alacrity and crit. Missing hits and abilities triggering slower because crucial stats are capped has nothing to do with skill and you know it. No-one in their right mind would defend a system that makes something like heroics a boring slog when more and more people quit the game every day because game is not fun anymore. We need more players, not less.

 

And the only way to gain more players is to revert the scaling back to pre-7.0 scaling as it was in 6.X.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Used to love this game but I had to take a break for a while.

I came back to discover that I can barely play story mode.. My stats

are a mess! After doing some searching I found this thread.

Guess I'll be canceling my sub until they fix it. Yikes.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi folks,

 

I wanted to follow up on my original post here as I’ve seen lots of confusion around what is and isn’t in the latest patch 7.0.2:

 

In 7.0.2:

  • Companions should no longer miss taunts or heals, and should be performing better overall.
  • Players with gear over 326 in PvP Warzones and Arenas no longer have a stat advantage as their stats are now properly synched to 326.

Working as intended:

  • The base Presence stat scales when Level Synced, but no bonus Presence scales. Bonus Presence includes all Presence gained through higher Influence with companions, Legacy Unlocks, and Datacrons. This can be observed in the Details button on the Character Sheet.

In a future update:

  • Maintaining Accuracy (and additional stats TBD) thresholds in Level Synced content.
  • Relic bonus stats when activated or triggered on their own applying in Level Synced content.
  • Augments and Color Crystal stats applying properly in Level Synced content.

 

In my original post, I wrote out specifically what would be in 7.0.2 to set player expectations. When ‘future update’ is mentioned, that means the work is in active development but a specific patch has not been identified for a roll out. When the work is closer to completion and we are ready to deploy that content, it is at that time when we will communicate the patch number.

 

Outside of those things identified above, you should not expect any major changes to the Level Sync system until we communicate otherwise. Other related aspects, such as individual content difficulty and tuning, we will continue to address with each patch.

 

Thanks,

-Chris

 

 

 

 

 

What about returning to pre-4.0. The level synch is garbage.. it show be thrown into the bin.

 

I know you do it as an excuse to basically recycle content, not giving us up to date content.... Its moronic having 0 progression in the game.

 

PVP and Arenas capped at 326.. great, is there a reason to get geared afterwards ?.... I want my stats on fleet .... EVERYWHERE...

 

STOP BEING LAZY, WITH RECYCLED CONTENT, AND MAKE NEW ZONES FOR HIGHER LEVEL GEAR

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Technically stats are not capped anymore like they were in 6.0 and previous versions but reduced by a percentage (sometimes a very high percentage - the average on Taris for the main DPS stats is 98% reduction compared to the gear values). You can see this by putting on or taking off gear piece by piece. The stat will go up or down based on whether you add or subtract a piece (with no apparent hard cap or maximum value). In 7.0 all stats are dependent on the values on the gear regardless of where the gear comes from (Conquest, PVP, OPs) in synced content. Base Presence is still reduced but Presence from companion influence does not appear to be. Accuracy and Alacrity are not reduced at all.

 

For stats like Mastery, Power, Endurance, and Critical, points from all sources are reduced in synced content. Armor rating (which is impacts your damage reduction from an enemy attack) is also reduced in synced content. The old gear penalty (wearing gear not "appropriate" to your level - primarily 306 gear) also appears to be a 50% reduction in damage in addition to the synced reductions.

 

Short story, the more points your gear has in unsyced areas, the more points it will have in synced areas. The % reduction is within a percent or two of the average for any individual ability.

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Great, you've explained the problem. That's a great first step.

 

But as the level sync system stands, players are not rewarded for increased levels and improved gear with increased effectiveness. Period! Do you think another 10 mastery on a planet is something players really feel compared to the older system where we'd at least always feel our tertiary stats making a difference? You suggest that the old system "set the wrong expectation for game balance" and that's somehow a problem because the experience wouldn't match up "facing other players in other modes such as PvP, or NPCs in Operations, and Master Mode Flashpoints" - seriously? Is that a problem? The community is siloed! Different segments of the community focus on class stories versus PvP versus operations versus MM flashpoints! Did that really justify this awful new system that punishes everyone "equally?" And, no mistake, this is a punishment. This system punishes people for investing extra time into their characters, levelling them up, getting extra gear, by making sure that *isn't* reflected by an improvement in actual in-game performance. So the old system had a few wonky outliers. So what? It was *significantly* better than this.

 

You're punishing players for playing your game *more.* How is that a good business model?

 

In this system, colour crystals people paid money to get don't work. The entire aug system doesn't work. Relics don't work. Oh, that's fine because at least those aren't WAI? It's okay because you might actually fix those within six months to a year of release? What about the friggin datacron bonuses? Pointless now under your new terrible system, and that's WAI according to your post. Presence bonuses granted from completing all companion conversations from the class stories? Pointless. That's really the sum of 7.0 for a great portion of the player base: you don't seem to care one bit about the work people put in to get specific rewards prior to whatever latest fad you've adopted. We're seeing it in level sync, people who worked for set bonuses like the XP bonus gear are seeing it, anyone sitting at level 80 with an unused weapon skin is seeing it.

 

You're so much more eager to stop players from playing the "wrong" way than to enable players to play at all - or, heaven forbid, have fun playing - that undocumented nerfs come in faster than a simple fix for desynced mission content!

 

The general baseline content in this game is a joyless slog right now and it's horrifying to hear from you that this is working as intended. What is wrong with your priorities that your response to plummeting concurrent player counts is to tell the players that they're the ones who are wrong?

 

I shouldn't have to tell you this because you *should* have player data of your own to look at, but inside of the siloed playerbase, there is a significant segment of players who just play the class stories over and over. That's it, that's all they care about; the expansions never worked for them, flashpoints are a slog, operations are inaccessible, they just like the class stories that much. That segment of the playerbase is so easy to please because they're insulated from all of the later game's development. They only need the gear that can make the base game playable, crafting is more for flavour than anything else, the occasional pretty outfit is nice, but they have what they need. PvPers, raiders, late game PvErs, they're very sensitive to new changes and it's hard to weigh their disparate needs against each other, but at least SWTOR has that cushion of casuals it can always rely on to take what they're given with no complaints. And somehow this update managed to upset literally everyone for no discernable benefit to any distinct group. Yes, even the people who only play the damn base game class stories, who have now found the new level scaling turning every enemy fight into an annoying HP sponge slog with literally 0 discernable benefit. Because, apparently, you didn't like how niche exploiters in different communities were cheesing some out of the way loopholes?

 

Was that *really* worth it?

 

I could not have say it better!!!

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