Eh.... my distaste for this gearing model aside...

Don't you want people to not burn through or hate the new content in record time?

I just want to know why Bioware wants to create enmity between players.

 

Six players screwed per boss doesn't really seem motivational.

A player could go all 4 bosses and get zero of these tokens.

Do you expect the boss to be puggable? Because I don't and as such this is fine.

Hi everyone,

 

Now that 7.1 PTS is live, I have some additional info to share with you from the Design team regarding gearing in Operations, specifically in The R-4 Anomaly.

 

On PTS you’ll notice that gearing works differently in R4 than other Operations. There are 2 goals we’ve focused on with R4 gear.

 

Progression as a Group

Operations are difficult content requiring coordinated groups to progress. Progressing can be easier if the group has control over which members are receiving their upgrades. We want to allow groups to have some control over their power progression, and have built this into R4’s gearing.

 

Progression on every Kill

It isn’t fun to kill a boss and make no progress towards your goals, even if your team is progressing towards group goals. R4 will have a secondary method of progression allowing every player to gain power as their group conquers each boss.

 

How these take shape in R4

 

Story Mode

In Story Mode, each boss will reward the operation group with story mode tokens, 1 per player. These tokens can be brought to a vendor and exchanged for Prototype gear at item rating 326. Players can use additional story mode tokens and credits to upgrade their gear pieces to a maximum item rating of 330. Cosmetic versions of the gear will be available on the vendor for players who have finished upgrading.

 

Veteran Mode

Veteran Mode offer gear at 2 item qualities:

 

Virulent Gear (Artifact, Maximum Item Rating: 340)

 

Bosses will drop a token unique to them, for now let’s call it the R4 Boss 1 Token. This Boss Token can be exchanged on a vendor for a piece of Artifact gear at item rating 340. Only 2 tokens will drop per boss and they are tradeable amongst the operations group.

Each boss token can only be used to purchase certain gear pieces, defeat the entire operation to obtain all gear!

 

Here is the list of Boss Tokens and the gear slots they purchase:

 

Boss 1

• Head
  
• Waist
  
• Relic
  

Boss 2

 

• Legs
  
• Wrists
  
• Relic
  

Boss 3

 

• Chest
  
• Offhand
  
• Earpiece
  

Boss 4

 

• Feet
  
• Hands
  
• Mainhand
  

 

Note: Implants will not be purchasable at item rating 340 as players are encouraged to focus on their Legendary Implants.

 

Hazardous Gear (Prototype, Maximum Item Rating: 340)

 

Each boss on defeat will reward the entire operation group 1 Veteran Token each. These tokens can be brought to a vendor and exchanged for Prototype gear at item rating 332. Players can use additional story mode tokens and credits to upgrade their gear pieces to a maximum item rating of 340. Cosmetic versions of the R4 gear will be available on the vendor for players who have finished upgrading.

 

We look forward to your feedback on this gearing system with the 7.1 PTS!

I really hope you aren't planning to force pvp players to play pve in order to get best gear for pvp? Reminding that pvp players are willing to get best gear possible for pvp only through pvp activities. If pve gear which drops from pve will give better stats in pvp than pvp gear, this will be catastrofic and intolerable

In response to the original post, let me make some comments and follow this up with constructive suggestions:

1. I am worried that the proposed system is going to disincentivize players from wanting to participate in PUGs. These days, I have seen pugging being limited to a few instances (KP, DF, and NiM Nefra and a few others).

2. Right now, gearing is incredibly grindy. I mean really grindy. That means that my mindset is being moved away from enjoying the game to, I need to do FPs (quickly, efficiently), WBs (let's kill'em and hurry), WZs (hope I get some good groups, otherwise I get to grind out 12 WZs instead of 4), and GSF (again, hope I get a group).

Suggestions:

1. Increase the caps on Tech Frags and Commendations (If we are having to pursue a separate pathway for Implants, at least give us the ability to save up to do two upgrades at once).

2. Increase caps on Commendations. I thought that we were supposed to get extra tech frags or commendations escrowed in crates/bags in our inventory until we had spent below our cap. I am leaving a lot of commendations on the battlefield.

3. Allow linear progression with flashpoint gear (green to blue to purple) like PVP.

4. Add an extra level of purple to PVP to bring it in line with the existing highest level of purple. That is probably easier to do by coding than shifting all PVP gear up on level (you start one level below the lowest general decuronium gear earned by just doing story content).

5. I am concerned that by placing two tokens on the end boss in the newest OP, you run a great risk at causing a lot of animosity to the individuals who get the drops.

6. And I am afraid that you are going to lock a lot of players out of this content because of the limit of the number of available slots in endgame progression guild raids, the lack of ability to train to progress (lack of slots, lack of repeats (once a week)), and the time committent required to be available to try and try and try.

7. So, why not make a drop of any piece of gear available from any of the bosses killed in the raid?

A lot of negativity in these comments. I, personally, am thrilled to have the 1.x gearing showing a return. The fact that you can get BiS gear in 6.x simply from farming just about anything was dumb. These changes make sense. Sorry, not sorry. If you can't clear all of R-4 Vet Mode...you simply do not deserve BiS gear. No more participation trophies. When I hover over someone's character portrait, or inspect them and see their Item Rating average as 340 with all slots showing a purple border (except legendary implants of course)--I will know they are a beast because that means there is a very good chance that they and their group have cleared R-4 HM about 12 times.

 

Calling them elitists is gaslighting. Having BiS gear should be an indication of skill across 8 players who spend enough time to maximize their character's effectiveness and coordination with their teammates to beat the hardest content.

 

This is how it should be. And I say this knowing there's a chance my group may not make it to the end of R-4 for a long time. It is what it is. We will do our best, get better each week, and be rewarded properly based on how well we do. As it will be for everyone. You get what you put in. If you raid 2 hours per week, don't expect to get a full set of BiS gear in any timely manner.

 

As for PUGs...the first problem is thinking "hey, let's PUG the hardest content". If the hardest content is PUGable...it's not hard enough. The hardest content should only be clearable from static groups who coordinate well with each other, that have no qualms with wiping 50 times per night just to learn one mechanic.

 

"But I'm not in a static group...it's not fair". Here's a suggestion: put yourself out there. I know for a fact that so many static groups are actively filling slots right now. I also know for a fact a lot of players are involved in multiple groups and actually enjoy starting new groups for inexperienced players looking to get a taste of prog raiding. Just ask. If you're in a guild, let your guild leaders know you're interested. If enough people show interest, I'm sure they will help form additional static groups. If they refuse...you're not in the right guild.

 

Last topic I saw was a complaint about the possibility of needing 65,000 tech frags to upgrade our legendary implants from 330 to 340. Have you played recently? The game is just giving away tech frags. If you regularly play Vet mode legacy ops for fun (tons of PUGs always forming), you can easily--EASILY, do a single upgrade every 1 or 2 days of playing. I promise you will have legendary implants at 340 before you're even close to having a full set of Artifact 340s. As it stands based on this post, a single static group of 8 players will need to clear all 4 vet mode bosses 12 times (that's 12 weeks), in order for each player to get the R-4 boss token for each of the 12 slots of gear the operation offers. You don't think you'll have 65,000 tech frags in 3 months? I consider myself a slightly dedicated casual gamer and I'm pulling about 8,000 frags per week. If I needed to, I can get more per week by playing more.

 

As I said already, you get what you put in. Nothing should be handed to you for little to no effort. That's what Pay To Win games are for. I'm excited for the gearing changes come 7.1. Even if I'm the only one in the comments who is.

And THAT is what people mean with "elitist ********".

Just claiming because you do OPS you NEED toget the highest gear - only YOU!

People invest as much time in other activity or even more. They SHOULD have means of getting to max gear.

WITHOUT OPS.

Even in 6.0 you COULD get to 306 but it did take massively longer times compared to OPS-Players.

I was happy with that.

I was also not as - how to phrase that best - "I have something NO ONE other than ME should have!"

Gearing via all means does not "hurt" OPS" Players.

Even in 6.0 they had the highest gear because the other means of advancements were slower.

I am OK with being slower on the higher gear.

But getting capped at some level like 326 is idiotic.

My invest of time in this game is not honored.

My want of play is not honored.

And yes I like to do OPS at some time but even on story the teams go around spamming "328 gear minimum".

That's just ********.

And does not make people get an interest in OPS and neither does it help the image of OPS-Players for the community.

Which makes for a toxic atmosphere.

And last off:

Yep - people have a life other than SWTOR.

And yup even these "normals" want to go for OPS sometimes.

But right now the OPS community is as toxic and NOT good company as toxic "git gud" PvP Premade Teams.

And that I mean in relationship to "normal" players doing all kind of content.

And THAT is what people mean with "elitist ********".

 

Just claiming because you do OPS you NEED toget the highest gear - only YOU!

 

People invest as much time in other activity or even more. They SHOULD have means of getting to max gear.

 

WITHOUT OPS.

 

Even in 6.0 you COULD get to 306 but it did take massively longer times compared to OPS-Players.

 

I was happy with that.

 

I was also not as - how to phrase that best - "I have something NO ONE other than ME should have!"

 

Gearing via all means does not "hurt" OPS" Players.

 

Even in 6.0 they had the highest gear because the other means of advancements were slower.

 

I am OK with being slower on the higher gear.

 

But getting capped at some level like 326 is idiotic.

 

My invest of time in this game is not honored.

 

My want of play is not honored.

 

And yes I like to do OPS at some time but even on story the teams go around spamming "328 gear minimum".

 

That's just ********.

 

And does not make people get an interest in OPS and neither does it help the image of OPS-Players for the community.

 

Which makes for a toxic atmosphere.

 

And last off:

 

Yep - people have a life other than SWTOR.

 

And yup even these "normals" want to go for OPS sometimes.

 

But right now the OPS community is as toxic and NOT good company as toxic "git gud" PvP Premade Teams.

 

And that I mean in relationship to "normal" players doing all kind of content.

I see your point, but people trying to kill apex or sister on MM NEED the gear, you only want it. I couldn't care less if everybody would have gear because it does not make a difference unless you are a very very high tier raider, or at least the difference will be so small you could just get better and that would improve your damage even more. But it's an objective fact that they need gear and you simply don't. Not saying you don't deserve BiS gear because literally who cares if everybody has gear? It's not OPs players that made NiM gear superior, if it should be like that or not is up to each individual but I think most could agree on the truth that harder content giving better gear is not unfair.

To the "OPs community being toxic" it's the same as for the PvP, people will flame if you play so bad they think you do it intentionally and thus you don't value their time so why would they value your feelings? To not get flamed you don't even have to be good or just okay, you just have to be friendly. If you cause a wipe just say sorry and you won't get flamed.

I see your point, but people trying to kill apex or sister on MM NEED the gear, you only want it. I couldn't care less if everybody would have gear because it does not make a difference unless you are a very very high tier raider, or at least the difference will be so small you could just get better and that would improve your damage even more. But it's an objective fact that they need gear and you simply don't. Not saying you don't deserve BiS gear because literally who cares if everybody has gear? It's not OPs players that made NiM gear superior, if it should be like that or not is up to each individual but I think most could agree on the truth that harder content giving better gear is not unfair.

 

To the "OPs community being toxic" it's the same as for the PvP, people will flame if you play so bad they think you do it intentionally and thus you don't value their time so why would they value your feelings? To not get flamed you don't even have to be good or just okay, you just have to be friendly. If you cause a wipe just say sorry and you won't get flamed.

I don't mind getting some comments when I am bad or causing wipes.

BUT

At the moment people are kicked for not having like 328 gear.

And read the comments in chat:

Way too many statements minimum gear for story or even veteran OPS.

326 is perfectly fine for those.

You only need people knowing what to do.

Hell, in story even 326 is a cakewalk and some mechanics are plenty forgiving.

And there are plenty casual OPS-Players knowing things enough for those and getting kicked or denied for having some gearing stats which are definitely NOT needed for those difficulties.

I don't mind getting some comments when I am bad or causing wipes.

 

BUT

 

At the moment people are kicked for not having like 328 gear.

 

And read the comments in chat:

 

Way too many statements minimum gear for story or even veteran OPS.

 

326 is perfectly fine for those.

 

You only need people knowing what to do.

 

Hell, in story even 326 is a cakewalk and some mechanics are plenty forgiving.

 

And there are plenty casual OPS-Players knowing things enough for those and getting kicked or denied for having some gearing stats which are definitely NOT needed for those difficulties.

Yes, 326 is good enough for HM but not having 330 gear shows a lack of commitment and thus skill, they think you are bad because you don't have max gear, but not because you wouldn't be able to get it - just because you didn't yet. They want the best options for them and the raid.

Nobody gets kicked from a sm raid for not having gear. You know that as well as I do.

After the way gear is handed out now, you really think people will join PUG groups with the possibility of getting zero gear from an op?

You really think people are going to PUG Vet R4 which is suppose to be harder than Vet Gods?

I don't mind getting some comments when I am bad or causing wipes.

 

BUT

 

At the moment people are kicked for not having like 328 gear.

 

And read the comments in chat:

 

Way too many statements minimum gear for story or even veteran OPS.

 

326 is perfectly fine for those.

 

You only need people knowing what to do.

 

Hell, in story even 326 is a cakewalk and some mechanics are plenty forgiving.

 

And there are plenty casual OPS-Players knowing things enough for those and getting kicked or denied for having some gearing stats which are definitely NOT needed for those difficulties.

One you must be on that crappy toxic server SS, I take people into SM ops all the time under 320 because most SM OPS its just basic mechanics to beat the bosses. I would not suggest taking an entire OPS full of people in 306 or less, because there still are some heal, tank and DPS checks that you simply can't do is sub 320 gear. Same as for HM OPS, the checks in place virtually require you pretty much have at least 326 none Noble gear.

So you do not only continue with this elitist gearing crap, you make it even worse.

Great job.

+1

Moving from one of the player friendliest gearing systems (6.x) to one of the worst in just one expansion - new world record

Hi everyone,

 

Now that 7.1 PTS is live, I have some additional info to share with you from the Design team regarding gearing in Operations, specifically in The R-4 Anomaly.

 

On PTS you’ll notice that gearing works differently in R4 than other Operations. There are 2 goals we’ve focused on with R4 gear.

 

Progression as a Group

Operations are difficult content requiring coordinated groups to progress. Progressing can be easier if the group has control over which members are receiving their upgrades. We want to allow groups to have some control over their power progression, and have built this into R4’s gearing.

 

Progression on every Kill

It isn’t fun to kill a boss and make no progress towards your goals, even if your team is progressing towards group goals. R4 will have a secondary method of progression allowing every player to gain power as their group conquers each boss.

THANK YOU, these General goals are exactly pointing at the core of what was wrong with 7.0 OPS Gearing.

How these take shape in R4

 

Story Mode

In Story Mode, each boss will reward the operation group with story mode tokens, 1 per player. These tokens can be brought to a vendor and exchanged for Prototype gear at item rating 326. Players can use additional story mode tokens and credits to upgrade their gear pieces to a maximum item rating of 330. Cosmetic versions of the gear will be available on the vendor for players who have finished upgrading.

Will it be a Token called "Boss 1" that can be traded for any of the Items for that boss,

or can you get Waists for months in a row and never get the other two Options?

please please please let it be Option one.

what about the Equal iLVL drops that we have right now, that are used to Gear up alternative Roles?

I hope those will not go away, it would be really bad if they did.

lastly SM Players have 322 Gear right now, from our testing a Group of SM Players will never kill Boss one even in 330 Gear, they will have to get a Lockout to play and kill the later Bosses from other Players, in my experience that kind of "gaming the system" doesn't generally happen at that Level of play, though maybe I'm wrong about that.

Veteran Mode

Veteran Mode offer gear at 2 item qualities:

 

Virulent Gear (Artifact, Maximum Item Rating: 340)

 

Bosses will drop a token unique to them, for now let’s call it the R4 Boss 1 Token. This Boss Token can be exchanged on a vendor for a piece of Artifact gear at item rating 340. Only 2 tokens will drop per boss and they are tradeable amongst the operations group.

Each boss token can only be used to purchase certain gear pieces, defeat the entire operation to obtain all gear!

 

Here is the list of Boss Tokens and the gear slots they purchase:

...

 

Hazardous Gear (Prototype, Maximum Item Rating: 340)

 

Each boss on defeat will reward the entire operation group 1 Veteran Token each. These tokens can be brought to a vendor and exchanged for Prototype gear at item rating 332. Players can use additional story mode tokens and credits to upgrade their gear pieces to a maximum item rating of 340. Cosmetic versions of the R4 gear will be available on the vendor for players who have finished upgrading.

I like them, both of them, if you solve the Issues I have noted above I think it's perfect.

however you have to adjust some Legacy Operations.

leaving them in the Broken state they are right now makes all the talk about difficulty based rewards a complete Joke.

I'm not just talking about iLVL, the Token+credits for each Upgrade change has to happen, NOT

daily grind+Conquest+...

after getting that out of my System, I'm sorry but you just showed you know 100% spot on what is systematically wrong with current OPS Gearing and it seems like you want to do nothing whatsoever to fix it, now to my concerns with iLVLs.

The good news is, except for Nefra, no VM/MM boss dropped better gear then their Difficulty justified and if the DPS check on Nefra gets fixed (especially in 16 man) that would be fixed too.

(I see no talk about the "use one dead person to cheese that Boss" Exploit, but I can't remember seeing a patchnote, please tell me that was fixed long ago, otherwise that one is actually worse then Nefra)

so you could easily bump the iLVL of the Pieces dropped from most NIM bosses and give them the same reward System as for the new OP.

even with that, most Progression Groups killed by 7.0 will not come back, but new ones can from, and the ones that haven't disbanded should be very happy with the fixes and the fresh content.

if you show you know exactly what is wrong with OPS Gearing but you only fix it for the new OP and make its VM Impossible for anyone but the Best NIM Raiders, you will just kill the last Progression Groups the Game had left.

heres the Issue:

as far as the People I know about go, the old OPs being way overturned was accepted, because new gear was on the Horizon to prevent the Power creep that usually happens to give new gear for the release of the new OP.

Just because we want to re-clear old OPs doesn't mean we want them handed to us.

But the new OPs has Nim Level bosses at HM just like it was for Temple of Sacrifice, except during temple times Nim was generally easier so it was possible to clear and at the time it had the Best Loot so while it was Wrong from the perspective of having a good difficulty Curve in the Game, the Rewards matched the Difficulty so it was fine from the perspective of rewards having to match the actual difficulty.

the Gear it rewards would be appropriate for many Bosses in the older OPs, they should be bumped to have the same iLevel.

and then if the new OP ever gets a Nim Version the hardest of the Legacy Bosses can be bumped up again to match the newest Gear.

note: I'm talking about actual difficulty not what is written on the "select difficulty right click Option"

even with the Enrage timer fixed, nefra MM should probably only reward something like wrists (but those should be MM level once the Enrage timer is fixed), while Master Blaster even in VM should reward a Legacy-MM mode Main-hand. while Apex can almost certainly get a Mainhand that should be upgradable to the same iLVL as that of the new OP in MM once that exists.

TLDR:

• Legacy OPs temporarily rewarding Gear inappropriate for their actual Difficulty was fine, when that gear was bis and the limit was meant to combat power creep. with the release of better Gear Bosses of appropriate Difficulty should reward up to BIS Gear.
   
  
• the terrible way of grinding OPS gear we've had since 7.0 was never fine and will never be fine.
  

  Progression as a Group

  and
  

  Progression on every Kill

  HAVE to be applied to Legacy Ops as well
   
  
• have a nice day and tell the others the same, I do feel strongly about wanting SWTOR to be the best it can be, but in my Opinion SWTOR is overall the Least bad MMO that I have played, even with all it's Issues
  

And THAT is what people mean with "elitist ********".

 

Just claiming because you do OPS you NEED toget the highest gear - only YOU!

 

People invest as much time in other activity or even more. They SHOULD have means of getting to max gear.

 

WITHOUT OPS.

 

Even in 6.0 you COULD get to 306 but it did take massively longer times compared to OPS-Players.

 

I was happy with that.

 

I was also not as - how to phrase that best - "I have something NO ONE other than ME should have!"

 

Gearing via all means does not "hurt" OPS" Players.

 

Even in 6.0 they had the highest gear because the other means of advancements were slower.

 

I am OK with being slower on the higher gear.

 

But getting capped at some level like 326 is idiotic.

 

My invest of time in this game is not honored.

 

My want of play is not honored.

 

And yes I like to do OPS at some time but even on story the teams go around spamming "328 gear minimum".

 

That's just ********.

 

And does not make people get an interest in OPS and neither does it help the image of OPS-Players for the community.

 

Which makes for a toxic atmosphere.

 

And last off:

 

Yep - people have a life other than SWTOR.

 

And yup even these "normals" want to go for OPS sometimes.

 

But right now the OPS community is as toxic and NOT good company as toxic "git gud" PvP Premade Teams.

 

And that I mean in relationship to "normal" players doing all kind of content.

Sorry, but you're gaslighting here. I only play when my group raids which only accounts for a few hours per week. There's no other reason for me to play. I play other games...which is okay. There is more to like than swtor. I'm the furthest from elite. There is no reason for you to have max 340 gear to play story, or do flashpoints, or dailies, or anything else. You are scaled in PVP to 326...so it especially doesn't matter for PVP. The Rakata 330 gear in 7.0 is for PVE Ops. Period. The new Artifact 340 gear in 7.1 is going to be for PVE Ops. Period. Little Joe doing dailies every day should not have Artifact rated 340 gear just because. It's disingenuous to the players who spend time to be good at their roles and play with others to beat the hardest content. That's not elitism...that's common sense. Calling people like that elitist is a poor excuse for other people's laziness. In 6.0, I didn't have to raid because all I had to do was trip over a tauntaun and the game gave me 306 gear. That was dumb. But I still did ops because they are fun and I like to play games with friends. This is the hill I will die on: the quality of rewards should be proportional to the difficulty of achieving them. I, like many others, can't wait to experience that feeling of beating the last boss of VM R-4 and getting the main hand token. It will be a throwback to the feeling of beating Soa on HM EV for the first time 10 years ago.

But here's the thing. This is my opinion. This upcoming change makes me happy and I recognize not everyone will be happy. Some of you are so salty that you're threatening to leave. Fine. You do you. I'm sure BW isn't sweating over anyone's idle threats of unsubbing. I know some people who are ready to come back to swtor when 7.1 drops specifically because of this change. They left between 4.0 and 6.0 because gearing was stupid (in their opinion).

I'm a big proponent of balanced gaming. Why should swtor be the only game that you play and, therefore, must meet your exact needs? Sorry, you're not that important. And neither am I for that matter. If a game does something that pleases you, go play that game. If they do something you don't like, then leave. Population numbers is your voice.

If you leave, but the overall population doesn't change...I guess that means you're in the minority of public opinion.

It sucks, but it happens. I've been playing this game a lot more since 7.0 because they've done things that I like.

There are plenty of things I don't like, but the positives outweigh the negatives for me. If later on they do something game breaking for me, I will stop playing and move to something else. That's it. That's all I got. Feel free to drop your hate at your earliest convenience.

As someone who has been an officer in raiding guilds in MMOs for almost 20 years, everything this person said is wrong and is harmful to the community and to raiding in general.

 

Gear is a tool for progress and success, when it is treated like a reward it causes drama and slows down a group's ability to progress. Over the years I have seen so many fights and hurt feelings over loot that systems like this have caused. In 6.0 each person could max out their own loot and then it was purely about their skill and willingness to learn the content, as it should be.

I'm trying hard not to laugh. "Oooh look at me. I've been an officer in raiding guilds for almost 20 years. Therefore I have vast wisdom and whatever I say trumps this random guy I'm replying to." Seriously? "Everything" I said is wrong? You're free to not agree because you rather get the best gear from literally doing anything, and you are 100% entitled to that opinion. All I did was express my heartfelt gratitude for the proposed changes. Admittedly I was gushing a bit because I've been preaching to my guildies for years that I would love for the 1.5/1.6 gear/loot system to make a return. Reading this original post from the Devs felt so good. The casuals and RPers had their version of the game, 6.0. 6.0 alienated a lot of players that legitimately enjoy progressive raiding as a means of progressing their character. 7.1 is a big step in the right direction for those types of players.

But here's the thing, no system is ever going to be good enough. It's impossible to make everyone happy. So 7.X is going to be more PVE driven than 6.0. So what? I had a conversation with a guildy about this earlier and a good point was brought up. What if BW went back to the 6.0 ways for 7.1 gearing/looting? I will bet my life's savings I know exactly what will happen: hardly anyone will do R-4 VM, everyone will grind the crap out of FPs and puggable VM legacy ops, and everyone in the game will have the best gear. Funny thing about that: if everyone in the game had the best gear...then no one has the "best" gear. Everyone is the same...why not make it easier for everyone and just give us a crate at login with 14 best in slot pieces? It is literally pointless and a waste of time (gearing wise) to do anything but the easiest, fastest, farmable content to get best gear. Do that X number of times for all your alts...and then (and here's the truth) start complaining to BW that there's no content.

Tell me I'm wrong (again). In that scenario, only the achievement hunters and the hardcore prog raiders will care enough to slug through R-4 VM. They will also farm the easy, older content to get the best gear to make it easier to clear R-4 VM...instead of clearing it as the devs intended it with only Rakata 330 gear.

Almost 20 years as an offic....pff...son, I almost have 25 years experience as a guild leader across 17 different MMOs. I've played mainstream MMOs and lesser known niche MMOs. I even played Everquest back when you had to use dial-up Internet to connect to the servers. And my extra 5 years of experience has taught me that MaximusRex is completely wrong and bad for the community.

^ Did that make me look ridiculous? I bet it did. And it's exactly how you looked when you said it.

Before all the hate comes pouring in: no I haven't really been a guild leader for 25 years. But I have played MUDs, which is sort of dating me a bit.

Alright. Bring it on. More replies. I'm having fun. I can do this all day.

As someone who has been an officer in raiding guilds in MMOs for almost 20 years, everything this person said is wrong and is harmful to the community and to raiding in general.

 

Gear is a tool for progress and success, when it is treated like a reward it causes drama and slows down a group's ability to progress. Over the years I have seen so many fights and hurt feelings over loot that systems like this have caused. In 6.0 each person could max out their own loot and then it was purely about their skill and willingness to learn the content, as it should be.

 

Limiting access to gear makes it harder for new players to break into raiding, and that only gets worse as each new tier of "rewards" is put in place, making those players further and further behind. If a team loses a player, they either need to try and find someone who got geared on some other team, which can then leave a different team short handed, or they need to pause their progress to bring a new player up to spec on their gear.

 

Gear grinding is nothing but an artificial block put in place to slow players from doing the content they actually want to do. This system additionally makes it terrible to gear alts or secondary combat styles as you are pressured and feel obligated to focus on gearing your main first, leaving the alts without currency and 100% dependent on drops that are actual upgrades, which is a terribly rare occurrence currently.

 

And the rotating operation weeklies, where you have your only chance for a guaranteed upgrade are not all equal in difficulty, locking a lot of players and groups out of being able to progress. I find it hilarious that Story Mode R4 is going to drop 326 gear when the feedback on the last PTS was that SM was way overturned for a SM by people wearing 330 gear.

 

BioWare is destroying their game and its community to make a few selfish elitists happy, I hope it's worth it.

I have read many other comments that were both interesting and to a point (perhaps) had a degree of validity ... but IMO none more accurate or concise in the overall effects of gearing since the release of 7.0

Well said!

I have read many other comments that were both interesting and to a point (perhaps) had a degree of validity ... but IMO none more accurate or concise in the overall effects of gearing since the release of 7.0

 

Well said!

Agree with you both 100%.

What if BW went back to the 6.0 ways for 7.1 gearing/looting? I will bet my life's savings I know exactly what will happen: hardly anyone will do R-4 VM, everyone will grind the crap out of FPs and puggable VM legacy ops, and everyone in the game will have the best gear.

It's not an argument in your favor. It means not many people enjoy those raids.

Funny thing about that: if everyone in the game had the best gear...then no one has the "best" gear.

Having to compare yourself to others all the time sounds a bit insecure.

Everyone is the same...why not make it easier for everyone and just give us a crate at login with 14 best in slot pieces? It is literally pointless and a waste of time (gearing wise) to do anything but the easiest, fastest, farmable content to get best gear. Do that X number of times for all your alts...

And skip the gear grind? Sign me up.

and then (and here's the truth) start complaining to BW that there's no content.

Gearing is not content.

Tell me I'm wrong (again).

You are wrong and MaximusRex is correct.

Yet another person from my raiding team decided to quit the game. We are now down from eight to five. We've been able to get replacements so far for those who left earlier, but I can no longer call it a progression team if we have to find 3-4 randoms every time we raid. Doesn't matter how competent they are, they are not part of the team and getting used to each other's way to do things takes time, especially if not even the replacements are the same people every time.

So thank you BW, we no longer have a stable raiding team to do the ops you were supposed to launch 6 months ago. I haven't been on PTS to check it out because I learned long time ago you don't care about the feedback you get there, being there would be waste of my time. However from what I've read, the first boss alone will be so difficult that it really can't be pugged. Considering I've been paying sub to be able to raid, and the only raids I see in my future are KP and EV HM, maybe some Nefra farms too, I don't see the point of paying the sub. I won't have access to better gear than 330, and better gear is needed for some of the old NiMs too.

Give me a reason to continue my sub, because EV and KP are not gonna cut it anymore.

Really? I've heard the op is a joke, it's only HM. Pretty sure you will just play 5 DPS for the most bosses and it's easy GG

I don't got a problem with that.

I can understand the point of some who are saying best gear should be for best players. Its this ancient MMO thinking where only the best should have best gear.

When I started playing MMOs (2001ish DAoC) I was thinking the same way. Why should everyone get the best gear for nothing. But time has changed (for me). I want to play a game after work - maybe a little bit more on weekends - competetiv as possible. I switched focus to shooters and MOBA games. Why? Because I do not want to grind for a game. I want to play it. But is everyone as strong as the others in these games? No. You have to practice. But you are doing it by playing the game.

1,5 years ago I finally came back to SWTOR (played until beginning 4.0). I got my 306 gear in one week. Set in maybe 2 for my first char. And I was ready to go. Back for all the legacy NiM OPs. Some things you do not forget XD

And I had a great time. Could have been more challenging but balancing is not the strength of bioware it seems^^

So personally I do not understand the need to grind new gear in MMOs anymore. To be cynical the grind may be the only content 7.0 offered. A new OP would be fine. And I understand there has to be a reward for doing it. But must it be gear or would titels and cosmetics be sufficient?

And in the end gear will not make the difference. Skill will do!

I can understand the point of some who are saying best gear should be for best players. Its this ancient MMO thinking where only the best should have best gear.

 

When I started playing MMOs (2001ish DAoC) I was thinking the same way. Why should everyone get the best gear for nothing. But time has changed (for me). I want to play a game after work - maybe a little bit more on weekends - competetiv as possible. I switched focus to shooters and MOBA games. Why? Because I do not want to grind for a game. I want to play it. But is everyone as strong as the others in these games? No. You have to practice. But you are doing it by playing the game.

I am more or less in a similar situation. I over my 30s with a fulltime job, children, a wife and the never ending story of washing clothes. I have only time to play late on the days.

But I completely disagree with the everyone gets bis system by doing nothing hard for it.

When I started playing people with bis gear where people you looked up to. And yeah mounts and titles are neat as well but gear means they grinded the **** out of it. A title means you beat it once.

I don't get why people that are only able to play casually even want bis gear. What are they doing with this? You can do everything with 320 gear currently and just by doing the new operatiion in sm you get 326 gear, which then can be upgraded to 330... You get way over geared for every casual activity just by participating.

The gear above 330 will mean the guy wants to prepare for future content. For future harder content.

Casual players don't need that gear and everyone who feels they should be entitled the best gear for doing h2 weeklies probably also wants race placements to be removed so everyone can be winner.

Getting rewarded for no work is a **** attitude even in games.

So from a 8 player group you only get 2 tokens per boss?

That means that since you guys cant give us enough content you make us grind the bosses over and over for gear?

So you do not only continue with this elitist gearing crap, you make it even worse.

Great job.

You casual players will be getting some decent gear as well so stop being so toxic.