Hello everyone

 

I asked many of my friends in the Galaxy what they thought about the news coming in February. All of them are sad and lost with so many new currencies and ingredients needed to collect new gear. Bioware is not a good solution. You can't make people play in many ways just to get new equipment. Some players only like storylines or flashpoints and don't want to play other stuff to get ingredients. Instead, make a new currency and a maximum of 2 ingredients can be obtained anywhere. For playing hc and nim content just give us more of those things.

You can't make people play in many ways just to get new equipment.

Unfortunately an endless gear grind is the core formula for most MMOs. In EQ2, you can't even enter some areas unless you have 600 crit, even if that's not your class's primary stat, and then once you shuffle everything around and you've ground armor until you're blue in the face, and you can enter that zone, all you're doing is... grinding more gear.

 

What was nice about 6.0 is how SWTOR escaped the confines of that model and let us upgrade without too much hassle.

Edited January 5, 2022 by xordevoreaux

Must we go through this every freaking time there's an update?!

 

4.0 was supposed to be the death of SWTOR. Then 5.0. Then 6.0. Now 7.0. Eventually I suppose, it may be true, but I'm not going to pre-emptively quit because people are yet again claiming the sky is falling.

The last thing to SAY is they want make us BECOME CHINESES FARMERS instead of being respected players subcribers who can play how we want because, conquest help a lot to be good in the game it's a true and suppress it got only one signification slaves us to be always CONNECTED on the computer because it will be awful to get WE ARE SUBSCRIBERS LIKE ALL THE COMMUNITY OF SUBSCRIBERS why give advantages to THE COVEN OF NIM PLAYERS and do of the rest of the community treaten like dogs .

 

 

so now we have the choose be respected and listened and have our place in the community of suscribers OR the community of suscribers composed ONLY by THE COVEN OF NIM PLAYERS...... and the cummunity will be ]poor lividless[/color] the ball is lauched .........

Must we go through this every freaking time there's an update?!

 

4.0 was supposed to be the death of SWTOR. Then 5.0. Then 6.0. Now 7.0. Eventually I suppose, it may be true, but I'm not going to pre-emptively quit because people are yet again claiming the sky is falling.

 

I hope it won't kill the game but I expect backlash will be at least as strong as it was after Galactic Command went live and wider population gets to experience those changes. There is something to make the game worse for each group of players - most raiders won't like new skill system, most casuals won't like not having good gear, most solo\story players won't like new level synch.

This anniversary celebration feels like someone invited me to their birthday party, made a speech about how great everything is and then served rotten food and sewege water before leaving the room.

Unfortunately an endless gear grind is the core formula for most MMOs..

 

The grind isnt even the main problem imo, grind is a natural part of mmorpgs, gatekeeping rewards behind only specific types of content, especially the best power rewards, than now that is a major problem.

Must we go through this every freaking time there's an update?!

 

4.0 was supposed to be the death of SWTOR. Then 5.0. Then 6.0. Now 7.0. Eventually I suppose, it may be true, but I'm not going to pre-emptively quit because people are yet again claiming the sky is falling.

 

I 2nd this.

 

However while I dislike what some of the changes are on the surface, I know a few other times I thought "this is going to suck!" only to be very pleasantly surprised. I m hoping this is the time again. That said, i think there will be things that will be EXTREMELY UNPOPULAR like the no mods till end game (and only if you do specific content) and the fact that they went from "Play your way" to "Play your way as longer as it is in the aligned play method paths we determined".

 

I understand the changes and suspect that even if the ship sailed its not game over in that 7.0.1 might be changes and 7.1 might be reversals (and rather quick behind 7.0).

Must we go through this every freaking time there's an update?!

 

4.0 was supposed to be the death of SWTOR. Then 5.0. Then 6.0. Now 7.0. Eventually I suppose, it may be true, but I'm not going to pre-emptively quit because people are yet again claiming the sky is falling.

 

Partially correct!

IMO additionally:

 

7.0 is NOT about the abilities of the development team . SWTOR team is quite capable of doing their jobs. Just because I don't agree with how some of it is presented does not equate to incompetence ... IMO they KNOW what they are doing !!!

 

IMO it this IS about some choices that have been made along the way which seem to have preempted choices in other areas that were needing some old fashion TLC.

 

It is within that context that I am personally watching this overall release:

** Story

** companions (or the continued lack thereof)

** accessibility of gear ( and yes I WILL be looking at that in light of 6.0)

** BUGS !! (I really hate those little critters).

** new material content

** class stories (remember those ?)

** 10th "anniversary" has come and gone. (ouch !! sorry ... just not good!) And to be perfectly candid about this one, something tells me that most of the team is probably as unhappy as we are (if not more).

 

I still say that there is a lot of behind-the-scenes stuff going on that we'll never see!! (That's reality) .

 

Oh I know .. old softie who has no clue as to what it takes as a real gamer in order to get things done !! I beg to differ!

"Been there ... done that! Started an entire collection of T shirts on the subject ( and one or two hoodies) !!!!

 

In any case: For me personally ... I think I'll just continue to sit tight and see for myself what shakes out when 7.0 arrives. That over-paid exec sitting at EA isn't the only one who is capable of making choices !!

Edited January 6, 2022 by OlBuzzard

Unfortunately an endless gear grind is the core formula for most MMOs. In EQ2, you can't even enter some areas unless you have 600 crit, even if that's not your class's primary stat, and then once you shuffle everything around and you've ground armor until you're blue in the face, and you can enter that zone, all you're doing is... grinding more gear.

 

What was nice about 6.0 is how SWTOR escaped the confines of that model and let us upgrade without too much hassle.

 

Heard that they are going to kill the Hammer Station and TC grinds so it's not like they are going to stick to the endless gear grind formula lol

Must we go through this every freaking time there's an update?!

 

4.0 was supposed to be the death of SWTOR. Then 5.0. Then 6.0. Now 7.0. Eventually I suppose, it may be true, but I'm not going to pre-emptively quit because people are yet again claiming the sky is falling.

 

I've never said swtor was going to die. I've only complained about features before an expac was released once before: I didn't like "bolster everywhere" and "losing companions" in 4.0 (they fixed the companion issue before they released the expac, bolster everywhere is still a mess imo) but I didn't see those as killers for me. I liked galactic command. I was leary of 6.0's gearing, worried most about balance, but was ok with trying it before I complained.

 

In 7.0's case swtor is making stupid mistakes that have hurt other games. For my part I doubt I'll be playing what I saw on the pts. I don't care about currencies (but many people definitely do), I do care about losing abilities for no reason, worse pvp balance, less gearing options, etc.. The backlash over this expac is far more than we've gotten about any other expac pre release. 3.0 had major complaints -after- it was released because the bugs and lag were very bad.

Edited January 6, 2022 by Savej

Must we go through this every freaking time there's an update?!

 

4.0 was supposed to be the death of SWTOR. Then 5.0. Then 6.0. Now 7.0. Eventually I suppose, it may be true, but I'm not going to pre-emptively quit because people are yet again claiming the sky is falling.

 

I was here for a while until 5.0 launched and then I saw the exodus back then due to GC. Hell I was one of them. Unless you think the they're just merging servers for the hell of it, guess what, there is a direct correlation between stupid design decisions and people leaving. Sure it didn't kill the game, and I don't believe this will either (as I'm one of the few people who actually like the change, and I've been on ptr for a bit now. Though I admit there are some problems for sure) but the point stands that yes while a game might not instantly die, it does bleed players when it creates, major content changes related to gearing. Which in turn is less revenue, which means less content, for us. That creates boredom and more players leave and the spiral continues.

 

Truth of the matter is they could have created a better compromise for the casual crowd. Again I say this as someone who likes the new system, but understand that not everyone will be on board with it. I'd rather have more happy players spending and joining the game, then another 5.0 exodus and watch it die a slow and painful death, but that's just me.

For PvE it's not so bad, but a big grind in order to be competitive or even remotely viable in PvP would be real bad. Edited January 7, 2022 by Kaedusz

For PvE it's not so bad, but a big grind in order to be competitive or even remotely viable in PvP would be real bad.

 

It's terrible for PVE too, unless you are a raider doing hardest content. And people running those are a very small fraction of general PVE playerbase in SWTOR.

Hello everyone

 

I asked many of my friends in the Galaxy what they thought about the news coming in February. All of them are sad and lost with so many new currencies and ingredients needed to collect new gear. Bioware is not a good solution. You can't make people play in many ways just to get new equipment. Some players only like storylines or flashpoints and don't want to play other stuff to get ingredients. Instead, make a new currency and a maximum of 2 ingredients can be obtained anywhere. For playing hc and nim content just give us more of those things.

 

Downgrade is the most commonly word used I've seen in my communities. We were stoked when it got delayed bc it meant we have more time to enjoy the game as is.

 

The problem is even if every good thing they add is amazing its still a really low bar being set.

 

The 10 year anniversary update is basically a patch for most games (a single FP and eventually an OP.) They couldn't put that miniscule amount of content out on time....

 

But even then whats the upside:

Cosmetic update thats long overdue AND having an additional class that you basically can only switch to in the same places you could just switch characters anyways.

 

Thats it.

 

Then you add all of us being slower, less accurate, less defensive, less mobility, take away customization of utilities, takes longer to cast, etc.

 

It just basically reads "To Improve Gameplay we're removing fun from the game, but now you can have your weapons on your outfit designer!!!"

Sadly, BW is doing this and it can't be stopped. While the initial announcement sounded great, the reality shown on the PTS was the opposite for me. I was hoping that the story would make up for the issues, but the more I have heard about that, the less I feel that it will. Destruction on an established world, one new world and a delayed operation. I already felt that they had lost the plot a while ago, but what really cemented it for me was when we got an event that was pulled directly from the Food Network. The money, resources and man hours devoted to this could have been much better spent in my opinion. But with the changes, I almost guarantee I'll not stay. I checked and over the last 17 months I have spend an average of $190 a month amusing myself in this game. How many subscribers who likely spend at least $50 a month on the game can they shed and stay viable? It may not immediately kill the game. But I do believe that it will start the downward spiral that will likely turn the 10 year anniversary celebration into the 10 year game ending event. The key is not how many new/returning subscribers they have at launch, but how many they have three and six months later. They do not have the subscribers to shed like Wow did and still survive. And even if update 7.01 was a complete reversal of all the changes that people have been citing as bad, I doubt they will come back. I don't know that I would unless they showed a commitment to content that brought actual story content quarterly, instead of new hairstyles, outfits and stronghold decorations. And as I understand it, that won't happen. Edited January 10, 2022 by Irishdoh
I missed a word.

Must we go through this every freaking time there's an update?!

 

4.0 was supposed to be the death of SWTOR. Then 5.0. Then 6.0. Now 7.0. Eventually I suppose, it may be true, but I'm not going to pre-emptively quit because people are yet again claiming the sky is falling.

 

Well the game takes a significant hit to the playerbase pretty much every (or every other) expansion and there are warnings from the players, which are often and frequently summarily ignored. The sky may not be falling, but some inclement weather certainly happens on a regular basis around these parts and takes large chunks of the playerbase with it, many of whom don't return.

Well the game takes a significant hit to the playerbase pretty much every (or every other) expansion and there are warnings from the players, which are often and frequently summarily ignored. The sky may not be falling, but some inclement weather certainly happens on a regular basis around these parts and takes large chunks of the playerbase with it, many of whom don't return.

 

It’s definitely a trend with Swtor development. Bioware announce or release expansion features that go against the advice or feedback of their wider player base and so people leave. It’s happened since launch and Bioware do not seem to learn any lessons from their previous mistakes.

 

The majority of the issues over the years could have been avoided with some better 2 way communication between the “paying” player base and the dev team. If we understood their goals better, maybe we could help them avoid the pitfalls of making unpopular changes. But they are always super secretive about their motivations for making unwanted and often unwarranted changes.

 

Sadly, Bioware as an institution is too arrogant to admit they maybe wrong and players may have a better alternative. They’d rather double down on bad choices and bad Dev design then actually listening and (more importantly) “understanding what the players want” in the game to make it fun and engaging.

 

And sure, Bioware probably do have a closed group of players they consult. But because it’s closed and secret, its become a self fulfilling feedback loop they is disconnected with the larger player base.

 

What’s different about 7.0 from previous expansion failures and player departures is we already have a lot less players than we had for 6.0 and earlier. There really isn’t enough player base left to absorb another mass exodus this time and still have EA decide they will keep funding a live service game.

 

And if they think these changes will bring back old or new players in the numbers required to offset the loss of players, then they are dreaming. They do no advertising, no real promotional activity and rely on word of mouth to get people to come back to try the game. Which only works when you don’t have a huge amount of people leaving and saying bad stuff about it.

 

When players are leaving and posting negative feedback in social media about how bad the expansion is (wether true or imagined), that will be enough to stop many new or old players coming to try the game. Then if the expansion really is bad, those that come to try and leave soon after, will end up creating their own negative feedback loop for other prospective players.

 

Bioware don’t seem to care or they don’t know how to handle bad feedback properly. So they ignore all the negative feedback, double down, then go quiet and hope for the best which causes its own negative feedback loop. And Bioware have been doing this same thing for years and years with no change in pattern. So it’s got to be an in-grained institutional issue because the leaders at Bioware and swtor have come and gone, but this one thing remains consist.

Edited January 10, 2022 by TrixxieTriss

It’s definitely a trend with Swtor development. Bioware announce or release expansion features that go against the advice or feedback of their wider player base and so people leave. It’s happened since launch and Bioware do not seem to learn any lessons from their previous mistakes.

 

The majority of the issues over the years could have been avoided with some better 2 way communication between the “paying” player base and the dev team. If we understood their goals better, maybe we could help them avoid the pitfalls of making unpopular changes. But they are always super secretive about their motivations for making unwanted and often unwarranted changes.

 

Sadly, Bioware as an institution is too arrogant to admit they maybe wrong and players may have a better alternative. They’d rather double down on bad choices and bad Dev design then actually listening and (more importantly) “understanding what the players want” in the game to make it fun and engaging.

 

And sure, Bioware probably do have a closed group of players they consult. But because it’s closed and secret, its become a self fulfilling feedback loop they is disconnected with the larger player base.

 

What’s different about 7.0 from previous expansion failures and player departures is we already have a lot less players than we had for 6.0 and earlier. There really isn’t enough player base left to absorb another mass exodus this time and still have EA decide they will keep funding a live service game.

 

And if they think these changes will bring back old or new players in the numbers required to offset the loss of players, then they are dreaming. They do no advertising, no real promotional activity and rely on word of mouth to get people to come back to try the game. Which only works when you don’t have a huge amount of people leaving and saying bad stuff about it.

 

When players are leaving and posting negative feedback in social media about how bad the expansion is (wether true or imagined), that will be enough to stop many new or old players coming to try the game. Then if the expansion really is bad, those that come to try and leave soon after, will end up creating their own negative feedback loop for other prospective players.

 

Bioware don’t seem to care or they don’t know how to handle bad feedback properly. So they ignore all the negative feedback, double down, then go quiet and hope for the best which causes its own negative feedback loop. And Bioware have been doing this same thing for years and years with no change in pattern. So it’s got to be an in-grained institutional issue because the leaders at Bioware and swtor have come and gone, but this one thing remains consist.

Yeah, you're right, definitely a pattern there that goes beyond a single lead (or at least, visible lead, there may be people who stay out of the spotlight who are in charge and have been there the whole time). I've been trying not to be doom and gloom about the expansion, but it's hard not to see it in a bad way. As you say, there's not much of a playerbase left to leave and I've seen people complain about the upcoming changes who are supposedly been here for the whole 10 years and are thinking about leaving if it goes through as is. That's a really bad sign, cause those are some of the most unshakable people this game has. Right now, the only way I see things not going south is if they scrap most of the gameplay system changes they were going to do and focus on the cool stuff like combat styles and weapon outfit thingy. Then they can rework things gradually throughout the year in areas they wanted to, while being responsive to feedback. I'm not sure they've ever done that, but that's the path away from disaster that I see.

 

Anyway, I swear this game is like a bad relationship. I leave it and then I forget and come back and it's as unhealthy as ever lol. I should not be worrying over the future of a video game, it's supposed to be for fun. I wish I could just play it when the mood strikes me and know it will be managed decently and sustainably going into the future. Going from expansion to expansion with this game is whiplash time after time.

Must we go through this every freaking time there's an update?!

 

4.0 was supposed to be the death of SWTOR. Then 5.0. Then 6.0. Now 7.0. Eventually I suppose, it may be true, but I'm not going to pre-emptively quit because people are yet again claiming the sky is falling.

And must we go through THIS everytime someone doesn't like an announced change?

Heard that they are going to kill the Hammer Station and TC grinds so it's not like they are going to stick to the endless gear grind formula lol

 

Have you played on the PTS and got your 322 set yet? It's grindy.

Have you played on the PTS and got your 322 set yet? It's grindy.

 

100% this ^^.

 

It’s super grindy and infuriating, especially if you have more than a handful of Alts to gear up.

100% this ^^.

 

It’s super grindy and infuriating, especially if you have more than a handful of Alts to gear up.

 

7.0 is not alt friendly in the slightest, if anything it will force you into dedicating your playtime into one main rather than multiple alts. I do this already but for a lot of players have 6+ alts they like to gear and play around with.

Unfortunately an endless gear grind is the core formula for most MMOs. In EQ2, you can't even enter some areas unless you have 600 crit, even if that's not your class's primary stat, and then once you shuffle everything around and you've ground armor until you're blue in the face, and you can enter that zone, all you're doing is... grinding more gear.

 

What was nice about 6.0 is how SWTOR escaped the confines of that model and let us upgrade without too much hassle.

 

It would be cool, if at least that gear mattered. But it doesnt.

 

Bioware needs to remove put optional the level squish, and remove ilevel cap.

 

Buff Flashpoints/Operations instead (Maybe even add tiers)

Edited January 17, 2022 by HectorCasan

7.0 is not alt friendly in the slightest, if anything it will force you into dedicating your playtime into one main rather than multiple alts. I do this already but for a lot of players have 6+ alts they like to gear and play around with.

 

Yeah, I’m into 90+ Alts myself and I know others are into the 100+ Alts region. Even people who have 5-10 Alts will find 7.0 infuriatingly frustrating in gearing them up because you have trade gear in to upgrade it. So you will have much less gear to be able to distribute to other Alts (like you can now).

Yeah, I’m into 90+ Alts myself and I know others are into the 100+ Alts region. Even people who have 5-10 Alts will find 7.0 infuriatingly frustrating in gearing them up because you have trade gear in to upgrade it. So you will have much less gear to be able to distribute to other Alts (like you can now).

 

Isn't it possible to keep an "upgraded" set in your legacy hold, then only have to update implant set bonuses and potentially weapons on the alts?

 

Just asking because that made sense to me.

 

For folks who stick with the game, yeah, it's sure you're going to be playing less characters with updated gear. But you might still be able to gear up most Combat Style (AC) playstyles, between a few characters. And after your main is at a decent level (328 once the new Op comes out, 326 for PVP'ers), shouldn't it be possible to do the above for another character, focusing on their implant rating and possibly their weapon and offhand, if it's a different type?

 

I'm honestly more concerned about the new level scaling and class redesign than I am about gearing. I thought 6.x had the best gearing of any expansion since launch, but am not as concerned with something that has a bit more grind than I am a level scaling system that buffs enemies while also nerfing players. This includes reduced utility and ability/passive changes generally, as well as tertiary stats not maintaining their max level numbers when going to old leveling planets for, say, a few heroics, or to finish an old daily area (soon to be required for gearing).

 

My sub runs though a couple weeks after 7.0 drops, and I plan to see what it's like on live servers. But it's more a combination of all the changes that will probably have me finally stop logging in, rather than a change to the gearing system. I didn't even bring up how leveling feels now, which is awful. I'm definitely replaying a class story now, getting the character to 75, before 7.0 ruins the experience.

Edited January 17, 2022 by arunav