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GSF Vote Kick


IssazNgada

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No, it requires player input: you open the map and click the symbol next to the non-contributing player's name. They have to first be non-contributing, which only happens if... yeah, they're not contributing.

Thanks for that info. I'm assuming that once you open the map, there is a "not participating" id next to the fail players name (like there is when you're waiting for the match to start or the red skull when you're dead)? And that mouse clicking can be used to vote kick them when the map is open? I'm really fed up with people just sitting out of the fight doing eff all, so to be able to vote kick them would be excellent.

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Thanks for that info. I'm assuming that once you open the map, there is a "not participating" id next to the fail players name (like there is when you're waiting for the match to start or the red skull when you're dead)? And that mouse clicking can be used to vote kick them when the map is open? I'm really fed up with people just sitting out of the fight doing eff all, so to be able to vote kick them would be excellent.

 

Yes, that icon will change to a Ø and you can just click that to cast your vote for kicking that player. But as has been stated in this thread, you cannot vote kick (or be vote kicked) so long as the person in question is contributing.

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try being in a match and losing 50 - 0. happened 1 month after GS started. everyone on my side, but another guy and me, would just fly to the other team and get killed and none of them fired a shot. was looking at the scoreboard of both sides and i think only 1 on their team had 1 death to their name. everyone else, their side, was 0 on deaths. our side ranged from 3 - 8 deaths. their leader had if i remember right 35 or 36 kills.

 

it's too bad the devs don't have a report button on the end scoreboard where you can click it and send it to them for AFKing violations, etc.

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I wonder how many people who post regularly on this forum do that. I remember when GS began and there were angry threads by players who were 'forced' to do GSF, there were several people on here saying they would just fly around, not shooting anything, suiciding, rather than just learn how to play.
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I have a problem with vote kick in general. If you are playing and trying in fps, ops, or gsf you should not be voted out. I've been kicked out of groups because someone didn't like my personality. I wasted 15 minutes or more several times in groups and just get kicked with no chance to defend myself. Sometimes with no explanation and right at the end boss.

That's just wrong. Makes me not want to group up.

Edited by VonDooomm
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I have a problem with vote kick in general. If you are playing and trying in fps, ops, or gsf you should not be voted out. I've been kicked out of groups because someone didn't like my personality. I wasted 15 minutes or more several times in groups and just get kicked with no chance to defend myself. Sometimes with no explanation and right at the end boss.

That's just wrong. Makes me not want to group up.

 

that can't happen in GSF, as long as you are participating, it doesn't matter if they like you, they can't kick you ;)

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that can't happen in GSF, as long as you are participating, it doesn't matter if they like you, they can't kick you ;)

 

That's been stated maybe a half dozen times or more in this thread.

 

Maybe I can try to help.

 

You can't be vote kicked in GSF under any circumstances if you are actively participating. Period. It's not even an option.

 

If you're here to complain about how mean vote kick is or whatever, please read the above.

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Maybe the definition of "actively participating" doesn't work when it comes to some ships.

 

Take the bomber, for example. It's obviously designed for defending a position. Most of its weapons fire out of the rear of the ship and remain there. It's slow and no amount of pressing the f3 key will make it faster.

 

And while people can sometimes tell the difference between "new and trying" and "not trying", computer software is really bad at nuance. I know, writing computer software is my job.

 

So, someone saying that you "never" can be kicked if you are "actively participating" runs the risk of not being able to support that absolute statement. In the two times I was kicked, I was moving toward the enemy, trying to set up my mines. That's what bombers do. But if your definition of actively participating is to just madly fly into a group of enemies and be destroyed, then no I wasn't dong that.

 

If I was going to play that way, I'd just fly into a wall and be done with it.

 

At any rate, vote kick is fundamentally harassment. And since I'm a paying customer, it's much more than that. Selling someone a product and then preventing them from being able to consume that product might be called fraud in some courts. I'm amazed no one has thought to challenge it with a class action lawsuit.

 

Maybe that will change.

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Maybe the definition of "actively participating" doesn't work when it comes to some ships.

 

Take the bomber, for example. It's obviously designed for defending a position. Most of its weapons fire out of the rear of the ship and remain there. It's slow and no amount of pressing the f3 key will make it faster.

 

And while people can sometimes tell the difference between "new and trying" and "not trying", computer software is really bad at nuance. I know, writing computer software is my job.

 

So, someone saying that you "never" can be kicked if you are "actively participating" runs the risk of not being able to support that absolute statement. In the two times I was kicked, I was moving toward the enemy, trying to set up my mines. That's what bombers do. But if your definition of actively participating is to just madly fly into a group of enemies and be destroyed, then no I wasn't dong that.

 

If I was going to play that way, I'd just fly into a wall and be done with it.

 

At any rate, vote kick is fundamentally harassment. And since I'm a paying customer, it's much more than that. Selling someone a product and then preventing them from being able to consume that product might be called fraud in some courts. I'm amazed no one has thought to challenge it with a class action lawsuit.

 

Maybe that will change.

 

if your in a Dom match defending a sat counts you as participating. In TDM's use your lasers. If you need to venture out of your spot, so be it. Sitting in 1 place in a bomber if nobody is coming near you is not participating. Move positions closer to the enemy and engage if you have to.

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i have had it happen to me. would be circling the sat , for a couple of minutes, and would still get the not participating notice. UNLESS you mean fighting off the other side ?

 

You need to be right on top (or underneath the sat). if your beyond the wings of the sat your to far out to be getting credit.

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Maybe the definition of "actively participating" doesn't work when it comes to some ships.

 

No, the definition is the same on all ships. I can get this on video if you want, though I also would like for you to get this claim on video yourself. OBS makes it very very easy to record your game, and for free!

 

 

Take the bomber, for example. It's obviously designed for defending a position. Most of its weapons fire out of the rear of the ship and remain there.

 

It has blasters for a reason. Not only that, but it has access to one of the best blasters in the game. You are supposed to use them.

 

It is designed to defend a position! That's good! You understand that. Okay, the next step is to understand where that position should be. In domination, you should be defending a satellite. In TDM, you should be defending a safe position that's close enough for your team to use. If you're getting flagged, you are failing at this basic aspect of this ship.

 

It's slow and no amount of pressing the f3 key will make it faster.

This is objectively wrong. F3 does make it faster, and F3 makes the engines regen faster. Again, could get this on video if you need proof.

 

And while people can sometimes tell the difference between "new and trying" and "not trying", computer software is really bad at nuance. I know, writing computer software is my job.

Cool! I have an IT background and understand this all too well myself! Of course, that's probably why the test is "did you hit something with a blaster" or "were you near a green satellite". You can do these things even if you aren't actively participating, but players who are trying should be doing these things anyway. You're going to have very few false positives this way, and even when you do, a group still has to have four people who agree that a given player isn't contributing.

 

So, someone saying that you "never" can be kicked if you are "actively participating" runs the risk of not being able to support that absolute statement. In the two times I was kicked, I was moving toward the enemy, trying to set up my mines.

Why weren't you close enough to your team to have a stray enemy come by now and again? It sounds like you were too far away. Use your blasters when someone enters your nest.

 

That's what bombers do.

Bombers also have blasters, and they use them. They have one of the best ones!

 

But if your definition of actively participating is to just madly fly into a group of enemies and be destroyed, then no I wasn't dong that.

 

No, my definition of participating is to participate. Set up close enough to the action that you're actually useful for your team. Bombers are about positioning. If you're finding that you get flagged, your positioning is bad.

 

At any rate, vote kick is fundamentally harassment.

 

No? I'm a broken record at this point, but you can't get kicked if you're helping your team in a meaningful way.

 

Use.

 

Your.

 

Blasters.

 

And since I'm a paying customer, it's much more than that. Selling someone a product and then preventing them from being able to consume that product might be called fraud in some courts. I'm amazed no one has thought to challenge it with a class action lawsuit.

 

Maybe that will change.

 

lol good luck on that one. Bioware gets to set the rules for the game. The fact that you pay them doesn't mean they can't have rules for how the game is played. You also agreed that they could when you agreed to their terms of service.

 

So no, you're not going to sue them because you get vote kicked because you refuse to participate.

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I.

Do.

Use.

My.

Blasters.

 

Still see that stupid message. Luckily I haven't run into the kick trolls lately. Wonder why the enemy team that runs away from my tick spots after I destroy some of their ships don't get kicked if we're all treated equally. My kill counts are going up. Wonder what the function that controls all of this looks like. Probably like pvp flag in WoW: you get flagged and assigned a time stamp. If you don't engage in any more pvp activity for the specified period, the flag goes away. But in this case you start out with a count down timer that gets reset every time you "participate". One thing I've seen is I see that stupid message and I'm moving toward the fight and I get one shotted by a gun ship or a fighter and then I see "You are contributing again." So, I guess "using. my. blasters." is not the only way to participate.

 

And finally, telling someone to send a video to prove what they're saying about a piece of software is a tactic used by low level help desk people to try to get the complainer to go away. Strangely, I've seen this type of thing in Bioware's official response to problems such as a corrupted launcher.settings file.

That's not a good sign.

 

Wonder at the mind set of the guy that sits at the spawn point waiting for someone to be flagged so he can get them kicked for "not participating". The lack of self awareness is strong with this one.

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I.

Do.

Use.

My.

Blasters.

 

Still see that stupid message. Luckily I haven't run into the kick trolls lately. Wonder why the enemy team that runs away from my tick spots after I destroy some of their ships don't get kicked if we're all treated equally. My kill counts are going up. Wonder what the function that controls all of this looks like. Probably like pvp flag in WoW: you get flagged and assigned a time stamp. If you don't engage in any more pvp activity for the specified period, the flag goes away. But in this case you start out with a count down timer that gets reset every time you "participate". One thing I've seen is I see that stupid message and I'm moving toward the fight and I get one shotted by a gun ship or a fighter and then I see "You are contributing again." So, I guess "using. my. blasters." is not the only way to participate.

 

It is possible to be "contributing" without actively contributing, but I will not share it here if only to make it the slightest bit harder for leeches to figure out how to leech.

 

Wonder at the mind set of the guy that sits at the spawn point waiting for someone to be flagged so he can get them kicked for "not participating". The lack of self awareness is strong with this one.

I doubt anyone does that. Dakhath definitely doesn't. She's one of the best, or at the very least, one of the better pilots in the gsf scene.

 

I will also say that there are niche cases where you are actively contributing without being flagged as such. Namely: contesting a node to prevent it from turning red, despite not actually firing on anyone (thus reducing your enemy's ability to earn points and tying up multiple players who are all trying to destroy you). Additionally, it is possible to get tied up against a persistent foe and not getting the chance to hit enemies even as you're chased, leading to you being flagged as not contributing.

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YOU HAVE TO USE YOUR BLASTERS AND HIT AN ENEMY WITH THEM.

 

I HOPE YOU CAN SEE THAT, BECAUSE IF YOU DO THAT YOU WILL NOT SEE THAT MESSAGE.

 

You cant shoot things that are 25k away with weapons that have a 4k range.

 

Im not sure if you know that yet, but thought i would mention that since im not sure of your knowledge level on GSF so far.

 

And, you wont see that non contributing message ever in a game, if you shoot something ONCE about every minute to minute and a half or so.

 

You cant shoot something once, and be done. You have to keep showing participation thru an entire 10-15 minute match.

Edited by philwil
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I think the vote-kick is abused more than appreciated. The previous post illustrates. Contributing is implemented exactly as he says. But contributing in GSF is not designed as implemented. There are even achievements for defensive actions that do not contribute to the calculus of contribution. There is a whole class of ships, Scouts, that are not designed primarily for head on combat. They are, well.... Scouts. Read the tips and guides.
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I think the vote-kick is abused more than appreciated. The previous post illustrates. Contributing is implemented exactly as he says. But contributing in GSF is not designed as implemented. There are even achievements for defensive actions that do not contribute to the calculus of contribution. There is a whole class of ships, Scouts, that are not designed primarily for head on combat. They are, well.... Scouts. Read the tips and guides.

 

I've got a longer post coming as soon as I get a video recorded and put together, but I want to address this sooner rather than later.

 

Scouts are great at satellite combat! In fact, they're probably the best ship for that job right now. So yes, they definitely contribute to, well, contributing.

 

You can make a scout work in TDM, too, though that's harder to do and I recommend playing a strike fighter instead. If you find that you're getting flagged, you need to change something about what you're doing. Please.

 

It's incredibly difficult to kick the persistent leeches we see in some games. And yes, leeches. See my previous lengthy post including screenshots of one such case.

 

It is actually impossible to abuse vote kick in GSF. Impossible. You can't be kicked if you're participating. You can not be kicked if you are participating. I have said this a hundred times and I'll say it a hundred more if it gets the point across.

 

Are you flagged? Then you're not participating! That's the game telling you that you are getting something fundamentally wrong and giving you a chance to fix it. Most players - myself included - are not going to kick someone the first time we see them flagged, and yes, we generally remember who gets flagged if it happens frequently.

 

If you're getting flagged in every game I see you in though, for most of the duration of a match? Yeah, I want you gone. It means that not only are you not helping, you're ignoring the message that lets you know that you're not helping. I can only assume it is intentional at that point, and I'm so grateful for a mechanism that allows us to kick people who intentionally try to throw games.

 

And make no mistake: if you ignore the message that tells you that you are not contributing, you are actively throwing. The game is telling you that you're getting something wrong. Instead of stubbornly insisting that it is the game that is wrong about how the game works, ask for help! Every server has a gsf channel you can join to ask for what you can do differently.

Edited by DakhathKilrathi
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I.

Do.

Use.

My.

Blasters.

 

Obviously not often enough. The conditions for participation are pretty simple. In any match, do damage by activating an ability that your ship has. Even "non-weapon" things like EMP field that do incidental damage as part of their effect count. You do have to interact with your computer though, parking a drone and then going on vacation doesn't count. In Domination, be within activation range of a satellite. The UI gives you cues about if you're close enough. Check out the measly little tutorial level if you've forgotten or never learned what they are.

 

The GSF vote kick mechanism is overly generous in favor of the person being kicked. If you want to take a battlescout and have a dogfight 30 km away from the nearest satellite, you can do that, and as long as the dogfighters hit each other from time to time they cannot be kicked, even though from a "helping my team," perspective they are non-contributors and teammates would be fully justified in kicking them.

 

Even on Denon Exosphere, which is by far the least bomber friendly map in the game, there is plenty of time to get from a spawn point to a satellite (even B if you like), without any fear of hitting the non-contributing timer. Even with the worst crew choices, which mean that yes, it will probably take more than two full tanks to get there.

 

 

One thing I've seen is I see that stupid message and I'm moving toward the fight and I get one shotted by a gun ship or a fighter and then I see "You are contributing again." So, I guess "using. my. blasters." is not the only way to participate.

 

No, you are not participating in this case. What's happening is that as part of the Death/Respawn code there is a global clearing of status effects, timers, flags, etc. Needs to happen to prevent things like dying in a scout with something like Targeting Telemetry up and then respawning in a Strike or Gunship and becoming an unstoppable monster of destruction by virtue of having damage boost effects not intended to be on that ship class.

 

With respect to vote kick this is basically a bug. A person who is already not participating is incentivized to actively harm their own team by self destructing in order to reset the timer. It should be fixed, because it's flat out bad design, but when messing with global effects you want someone who knows what they are doing making the changes, and Bioware is short on people who fit that description with respect to the code for GSF. The result is that it's better to have a weak/broken vote kick system than to have chaos of uncleared effects on respawn. It's a knonw problem that they don't feel they have the resources to fix.

 

 

I do on rare occasions run into the non-contributing message myself. Usually on a scout when I'm either looking for a weapon powerup to refill rocket-pods ammo or just exploring a corner of a map that I don't know quite as well as I should. It's not an issue though. Even in a bomber, by the time anyone notices, and enough people go hands off flight controls to actually vote to kick, there will have been enough time to get back into the fight.

 

You can't get vote kicked for mere non-participation. In practice, for people to successfully kick someone the person kicked has to be engaged in consistent and egregious non-participation. Between a slow and clunky kick interface, and the ability to un-flag oneself routinely in the course of normal play, the kick system cannot be abused by people trying to kick. It can be abused by people who should be getting kicked, but as discussed above the technical resources to tighten up the kick process are apparently not available. Which is too bad.

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