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This is why we hate PvP


EllieAnne

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Now that BW has forced us back into PvP with Galactic Season I'm sure the data they've been collecting for 6 months now says everyone loves PvP since they made the changes since sooooooo many more players are in warzones. So if you feel forced into PvP because of GS, tell us why you hate PvP. I'd say tell Bioware but if they do read this thread (not likely) then they still won't care.

 

For me it is the imbalance. Maybe not the kind you are thinking but the imbalance in stun-locks, releases, self-heals, shields, etc. I just got out of a PvP where 2 people were able to hold off 7 of us from capturing a pylon. I know there will be the ubergods of PvP that will come in and say "know yer class" or "you all suck" or "you need to try harder" but the bottom line is that when 2 people can hold off 7 for an extended time, something is broken. They were spamming CC. They would break our CC. They would self-heal for over 50% HP. They would spam their shields and reflects. I wouldn't mind losing in PvP if they were just better fighters than I am, but these are not straight up fights. These are toons loading up on PvP proficiencies and tacticals in order to pwn players through mechanics - not fighting. And then you get them grouping up for warzones and you are pretty much dead. How can I have to have fun when I can't even fight since they can spam stuns on me and if we CC them there is no effect and if my team by some miracle gets them down to 20% health - oh they self-healed back to 80% ... repeat as needed.

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We’d just be saying the same things we’ve constantly been saying for 10 months.

 

pretty much, they haven't listened to a word we've said, most of these issues have been here a long time, GS just compounds it.

 

I'm not a pvp'r, I'm a casual player who does it for GS, I used to do it before the win requirement, to level up, extra rewards etc. But that killed it. Too many times I'd end up against a ranked team, while my own would be casual like me. If we we both full of casuals, and the 'ranked' players were evenly matched on both teams, things would be better. But at the end of the day, making it a win requirement, killed off pvp for casual people. Now when casual people go in to PvP, they get abused, or told to get good, or the other usual nonsense. NOTHING the team has done with PvP recently has fostered good play, good sport, or anything like that. It's all had a negative effect on the mood of pvp.

Edited by DarkTergon
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Now that BW has forced us back into PvP with Galactic Season I'm sure the data they've been collecting for 6 months now says everyone loves PvP since they made the changes since sooooooo many more players are in warzones. So if you feel forced into PvP because of GS, tell us why you hate PvP. I'd say tell Bioware but if they do read this thread (not likely) then they still won't care.

 

For me it is the imbalance. Maybe not the kind you are thinking but the imbalance in stun-locks, releases, self-heals, shields, etc. I just got out of a PvP where 2 people were able to hold off 7 of us from capturing a pylon. I know there will be the ubergods of PvP that will come in and say "know yer class" or "you all suck" or "you need to try harder" but the bottom line is that when 2 people can hold off 7 for an extended time, something is broken. They were spamming CC. They would break our CC. They would self-heal for over 50% HP. They would spam their shields and reflects. I wouldn't mind losing in PvP if they were just better fighters than I am, but these are not straight up fights. These are toons loading up on PvP proficiencies and tacticals in order to pwn players through mechanics - not fighting. And then you get them grouping up for warzones and you are pretty much dead. How can I have to have fun when I can't even fight since they can spam stuns on me and if we CC them there is no effect and if my team by some miracle gets them down to 20% health - oh they self-healed back to 80% ... repeat as needed.

 

So if 2 players can hold up 7 and you know it, why don't your team send 2 to their pylon and do the same thing.

Sorry to say that but this is a perfect LTP issue.

How many times you guys have to lose before you realize that in AH the 7-1 start DOES NOT WORK.

Why don't you try something else like 6-2 or IMO the best 5-3.

Relax it was just a rhetorical question. The answer is because it easier to come to the forum and cry than LTP.

In almost every AH I ask my team, why don't we attack their pylon? Why I am the only one going to their pylon?

 

So if you can't beat them join them. Do the same thing. Get another player and hold up their pylon. If you can't, it means it's not that simple after all.

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Now that BW has forced us back into PvP with Galactic Season I'm sure the data they've been collecting for 6 months now says everyone loves PvP since they made the changes since sooooooo many more players are in warzones. So if you feel forced into PvP because of GS, tell us why you hate PvP. I'd say tell Bioware but if they do read this thread (not likely) then they still won't care.

 

For me it is the imbalance. Maybe not the kind you are thinking but the imbalance in stun-locks, releases, self-heals, shields, etc. I just got out of a PvP where 2 people were able to hold off 7 of us from capturing a pylon. I know there will be the ubergods of PvP that will come in and say "know yer class" or "you all suck" or "you need to try harder" but the bottom line is that when 2 people can hold off 7 for an extended time, something is broken. They were spamming CC. They would break our CC. They would self-heal for over 50% HP. They would spam their shields and reflects. I wouldn't mind losing in PvP if they were just better fighters than I am, but these are not straight up fights. These are toons loading up on PvP proficiencies and tacticals in order to pwn players through mechanics - not fighting. And then you get them grouping up for warzones and you are pretty much dead. How can I have to have fun when I can't even fight since they can spam stuns on me and if we CC them there is no effect and if my team by some miracle gets them down to 20% health - oh they self-healed back to 80% ... repeat as needed.

 

Two nights ago on 75s I had a sin on my team playing with no tactical and a single bladed, level 210 saber with no crystal. Their total gear rating was 233. These are the kinds of players who are held off by people 7v2.

 

In the last 3 weeks I've queued on leth and played multiple games using only rifle shot for all attacks - I did 2k DPS and 3k HPS. Then another few games using only corrosive grenade, literally spamming it as the only attack. 4800 DPS, 3k HPS.

 

No amount of balancing will fix people so utterly incompetent they are playing with the wrong weapon or who can't even do the same output as someone who is only pressing basic attack every 1.5 seconds. Bioware needs to fix that player education problem if it can even be done.

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No amount of balancing will fix people so utterly incompetent they are playing with the wrong weapon or who can't even do the same output as someone who is only pressing basic attack every 1.5 seconds. Bioware needs to fix that player education problem if it can even be done.

 

Leveling through story is so trivial that you're not forced to learn anything. There is no way I will ever go "git gud", but you're right. Bioware needs to do better encouraging people to learn about their classes. They have little training slides for everything else, perhaps they could put some effort into showing basic attack sequences...maybe by rewarding someone with a nice blue weapon for executing one on enemies X times in a mission or something. It would also help to buff the enemies of the story just a wee bit. I use that sophomoric terminology because anything else (if Bioware even pays attention) would see them profoundly overtune NPC enemies and anger people.

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Leveling through story is so trivial that you're not forced to learn anything. There is no way I will ever go "git gud", but you're right. Bioware needs to do better encouraging people to learn about their classes. They have little training slides for everything else, perhaps they could put some effort into showing basic attack sequences...maybe by rewarding someone with a nice blue weapon for executing one on enemies X times in a mission or something. It would also help to buff the enemies of the story just a wee bit. I use that sophomoric terminology because anything else (if Bioware even pays attention) would see them profoundly overtune NPC enemies and anger people.

 

I remember back when you could actually die fighting Darth Baras or that Jedi that you fight at the end of the bounty hunter storyline. The game is just too easy now which probably contributes to why there are so many bots in warzones now. Most new players don't install this game hoping to PVP. They just play it because its Star Wars.

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Two nights ago on 75s I had a sin on my team playing with no tactical and a single bladed, level 210 saber with no crystal. Their total gear rating was 233. These are the kinds of players who are held off by people 7v2.

 

In the last 3 weeks I've queued on leth and played multiple games using only rifle shot for all attacks - I did 2k DPS and 3k HPS. Then another few games using only corrosive grenade, literally spamming it as the only attack. 4800 DPS, 3k HPS.

 

No amount of balancing will fix people so utterly incompetent they are playing with the wrong weapon or who can't even do the same output as someone who is only pressing basic attack every 1.5 seconds. Bioware needs to fix that player education problem if it can even be done.

 

The issue as I see it now, is BioWare have destroyed the only mechanism or place for these people to learn when they merged the lowbie and mid brackets. This will only make make pvp worse over time.

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I remember back when you could actually die fighting Darth Baras or that Jedi that you fight at the end of the bounty hunter storyline. . Most new players don't install this game hoping to PVP. They just play it because its Star Wars.

 

So true, which goes back to the other threads where we've asked for a scaling option on instanced content, like kotfe, etc has.

 

 

The issue as I see it now, is BioWare have destroyed the only mechanism or place for these people to learn when they merged the lowbie and mid brackets. This will only make make pvp worse over time.

 

it has already started too, :(

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The issue as I see it now, is BioWare have destroyed the only mechanism or place for these people to learn when they merged the lowbie and mid brackets. This will only make make pvp worse over time.

 

I know leveling is ridiculously fast, but this is a bit horse ****. you don't like the bracket squish, and I agree with you. however, that was a very recent thing that takes time to take affect (players need to get to 75), and it has nothing to do with why players are flooding WZs with no idea what they're doing. For that, you have Galactic Seasons to blame.

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I know leveling is ridiculously fast, but this is a bit horse ****. you don't like the bracket squish, and I agree with you. however, that was a very recent thing that takes time to take affect (players need to get to 75), and it has nothing to do with why players are flooding WZs with no idea what they're doing. For that, you have Galactic Seasons to blame.

 

I’m not saying it’s already had a direct impact (but it’s possible it’s starting too).

 

My point was BioWare have removed the only place where people could learn in a semi fair environment. So they’ve effectively removed the only mechanism that could have been used to help improve player skills as they lvl up.

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I know leveling is ridiculously fast, but this is a bit horse ****. you don't like the bracket squish, and I agree with you. however, that was a very recent thing that takes time to take affect (players need to get to 75), and it has nothing to do with why players are flooding WZs with no idea what they're doing. For that, you have Galactic Seasons to blame.

 

It's way more simple than you think.

 

For subscribers, you barely have to log in and do something to keep up with galactic seasons.

 

For non-subscribers, they have to scrape every point because they're penalized. They're the only one's being "forced", and they also generally happen to care less about the integrity of the matches as well as being straight up worse at pvp. They're also, by their nature, less able to use the catch up mechanics via credits or cartel coins.

 

The end result is matches are being flooded with people who don't want to be there, don't deserve to be there (cause they don't care about winning) and don't have enough skills or knowledge to enjoy being there.

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It's way more simple than you think.

 

For subscribers, you barely have to log in and do something to keep up with galactic seasons.

 

For non-subscribers, they have to scrape every point because they're penalized. .

 

You get the same amount of GS points whether sub or not, you just don't get the same rewards, subs get both tracks, non subs only one. The only thing non subs can't do is ops (they should never have gotten rid of the passes :( )

 

I They're the only one's being "forced", and they also generally happen to care less about the integrity of the matches as well as being straight up worse at pvp. They're also, by their nature, less able to use the catch up mechanics via credits or cartel coins.

.

 

Blantently a lie, being a sub/non sub doesn't change how you feel if you are being 'forced' to doing content you don't want to do.

Also being a sub doesn't make you magically care about a pvp match, again, both can adore or hate it, sub status doesn't change that.

And lastly, it doesn't matter if you're a sub or not, if you are good, you are good, a sub doesn't suddenly make you a pvp God (believe you me, I wish it did)

ok, this is lastly, everyone can use CC's to catch up, it costs everyone the same, the only way non subs are stuck is credit catch up.

 

 

BTW...Last two days, I was only able to log in quickly, and not actually do any content....strangely, I got no GS points.... :rolleyes:

Edited by DarkTergon
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So if 2 players can hold up 7 and you know it, why don't your team send 2 to their pylon and do the same thing.

Sorry to say that but this is a perfect LTP issue.

How many times you guys have to lose before you realize that in AH the 7-1 start DOES NOT WORK.

Why don't you try something else like 6-2 or IMO the best 5-3.

Relax it was just a rhetorical question. The answer is because it easier to come to the forum and cry than LTP.

In almost every AH I ask my team, why don't we attack their pylon? Why I am the only one going to their pylon?

 

So if you can't beat them join them. Do the same thing. Get another player and hold up their pylon. If you can't, it means it's not that simple after all.

 

If 7 of their team were being held off by only 2 people, what good would peeling off a bunch to go fight 6 enemies on the other pylon do for them? You’re the only one suggesting go to the other pylon because it’s not always a good idea. I can’t count the number of times I’ve defended a pylon against a team that would’ve been better served grabbing orbs or doing literally anything else.

 

It’s not a l2p issue. Honestly, it barely ever is. This is an imbalance issue as the OP said. It’s hard to take you seriously when you talk about the OP had to “come to the forum to cry” when you came to the forum to cry about a perfectly valid post.

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You get the same amount of GS points whether sub or not, you just don't get the same rewards, subs get both tracks, non subs only one.

 

 

No.

 

Subscriber and F2P points for:

Daily PO: 3 and 2

Weekly PO: 12 and 8

4 day login: 8 and 4

which, if you do everything each week, will give you 74 and 48 points.

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It’s not a l2p issue. Honestly, it barely ever is.

 

One of the issues I don't see discussed is the expectation that a casual player should have a set of PvP gear including tactical to do warzones now. Honestly, how many casual players even know what the PvP tacticals are? How many are going to buy and fill the best PvP gear out there to stand toe-to-toe with the Pros?

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Well it was fun trying to pvp. But from now on I am joining the people who avoid pvp. The premade issue and balance issue is easily resolvable. Medals. Use the aggregate number medals obtained by a legacy over the lifetime of the game to decide who goes where and in unranked ignore groups. if you wanna group go do ranked. unranked break the groups for balance or give an option

1. Allow group break

2. Don't allow group break

 

For allow they can be queued for normal but for don't allow they will only go against a equally skilled/medaled ranked team no matter who's in queue. Aggregate number of medals for a group can be used to balance premade vs premade.

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If 7 of their team were being held off by only 2 people, what good would peeling off a bunch to go fight 6 enemies on the other pylon do for them? You’re the only one suggesting go to the other pylon because it’s not always a good idea. I can’t count the number of times I’ve defended a pylon against a team that would’ve been better served grabbing orbs or doing literally anything else.

 

It’s not a l2p issue. Honestly, it barely ever is. This is an imbalance issue as the OP said. It’s hard to take you seriously when you talk about the OP had to “come to the forum to cry” when you came to the forum to cry about a perfectly valid post.

 

OMG!!!!!!!!! How is it NOT a LTP issue? Maybe you were born with PvP skills and knowledge but we mortals have to learn everything in life, not just PvP.

It's ALWAYS a good idea to attack the enemy pylon because without pylon orbs are absolutely f@#$%^ useless.

If you can prevent them from capping, they can grab their orbs any witch way the want. They lose.

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If you can prevent them from capping, they can grab their orbs any witch way the want. They lose.

 

Exactly this. If they can’t cap, they get ZERO points.

As long as your guys cap your pylon (and don’t lose it) and you stop them capping (you don’t even need to get theirs, just stop them) and you win by default.

You don’t need any orbs to win Hypergates. And most of the time, people shouldn’t be trying to win Hypergates by running orbs over killing the enemy or preventing them capping.

The only times orbs make any difference is when teams are evenly matched and you’ve both capped a pylon. Then orbs can make a difference. Otherwise you are causing a player imbalance to your team numbers vs the other team at certain pressures points (like their node or your node or mid).

Something I think many new people don’t know or old people forget is you GIVE the other side points every time you die. So running into mid solo to grab an orb is a risky venture if you don’t have backup or an escape vector. Especially if the other side has ranged classes that can interrupt you from the sides when ever you try to grab an orb.

You are better off staying as a pack and supporting each other so that you can hold mid or stop them capping. And for everyone you kill, you get points too.

One the best ways to contribute to your team in Hypergates is to stop GIVING the other team free kills by suiciding into them. Like when you see the one guy on your team who keeps suiciding solo at their node and giving them points or the one who jumps into 6 of them in the hope he can kill one guy he doesn’t like.

People will win more Hypergates once they realise it’s a death match for points as much as it’s about getting the nodes. The orbs are just a side distraction to entice the teams to engage in mid.

Bioware could get rid of the orbs tomorrow and wouldnt change the fundamentals of the hypergate matches.

Edited by TrixxieTriss
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Exactly this. If they can’t cap, they get ZERO points.

As long as your guys cap your pylon (and don’t lose it) and you stop them capping (you don’t even need to get theirs, just stop them) and you win by default.

You don’t need any orbs to win Hypergates. And most of the time, people shouldn’t be trying to win Hypergates by running orbs over killing the enemy or preventing them capping.

The only times orbs make any difference is when teams are evenly matched and you’ve both capped a pylon. Then orbs can make a difference. Otherwise you are causing a player imbalance to your team numbers vs the other team at certain pressures points (like their node or your node or mid).

Something I think many new people don’t know or old people forget is you GIVE the other side points every time you die. So running into mid solo to grab an orb is a risky venture if you don’t have backup or an escape vector. Especially if the other side has ranged classes that can interrupt you from the sides when ever you try to grab an orb.

You are better off staying as a pack and supporting each other so that you can hold mid or stop them capping. And for everyone you kill, you get points too.

One the best ways to contribute to your team in Hypergates is to stop GIVING the other team free kills by suiciding into them. Like when you see the one guy on your team who keeps suiciding solo at their node and giving them points or the one who jumps into 6 of them in the hope he can kill one guy he doesn’t like.

People will win more Hypergates once they realise it’s a death match for points as much as it’s about getting the nodes. The orbs are just a side distraction to entice the teams to engage in mid.

Bioware could get rid of the orbs tomorrow and wouldnt change the fundamentals of the hypergate matches.

 

Very good post. This is what LTP means.

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Now that BW has forced us back into PvP with Galactic Season I'm sure the data they've been collecting for 6 months now says everyone loves PvP since they made the changes since sooooooo many more players are in warzones. So if you feel forced into PvP because of GS, tell us why you hate PvP. I'd say tell Bioware but if they do read this thread (not likely) then they still won't care.

 

For me it is the imbalance. Maybe not the kind you are thinking but the imbalance in stun-locks, releases, self-heals, shields, etc. I just got out of a PvP where 2 people were able to hold off 7 of us from capturing a pylon. I know there will be the ubergods of PvP that will come in and say "know yer class" or "you all suck" or "you need to try harder" but the bottom line is that when 2 people can hold off 7 for an extended time, something is broken. They were spamming CC. They would break our CC. They would self-heal for over 50% HP. They would spam their shields and reflects. I wouldn't mind losing in PvP if they were just better fighters than I am, but these are not straight up fights. These are toons loading up on PvP proficiencies and tacticals in order to pwn players through mechanics - not fighting. And then you get them grouping up for warzones and you are pretty much dead. How can I have to have fun when I can't even fight since they can spam stuns on me and if we CC them there is no effect and if my team by some miracle gets them down to 20% health - oh they self-healed back to 80% ... repeat as needed.

 

Yes. All that. What they said ^

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Now that BW has forced us back into PvP with Galactic Season I'm sure the data they've been collecting for 6 months now says everyone loves PvP since they made the changes since sooooooo many more players are in warzones. So if you feel forced into PvP because of GS, tell us why you hate PvP. I'd say tell Bioware but if they do read this thread (not likely) then they still won't care.

 

For me it is the imbalance. Maybe not the kind you are thinking but the imbalance in stun-locks, releases, self-heals, shields, etc. I just got out of a PvP where 2 people were able to hold off 7 of us from capturing a pylon. I know there will be the ubergods of PvP that will come in and say "know yer class" or "you all suck" or "you need to try harder" but the bottom line is that when 2 people can hold off 7 for an extended time, something is broken. They were spamming CC. They would break our CC. They would self-heal for over 50% HP. They would spam their shields and reflects. I wouldn't mind losing in PvP if they were just better fighters than I am, but these are not straight up fights. These are toons loading up on PvP proficiencies and tacticals in order to pwn players through mechanics - not fighting. And then you get them grouping up for warzones and you are pretty much dead. How can I have to have fun when I can't even fight since they can spam stuns on me and if we CC them there is no effect and if my team by some miracle gets them down to 20% health - oh they self-healed back to 80% ... repeat as needed.

 

I agree with sentiment that it sucks to be facing 2 people or even 1 person at a pylon while 4-6 guys try to kill said person. I agree with it whole heartedly. It's not fun, its boring and it's one of the reasons why I hate Ancient Hypergate. I loathe everytime this map comes up for the simple fact that we are going to have an annoying said class doing that. It's probably why I, because I'm not going to speak on behalf of the some, want deathmatch pvp style, get rid of the pylons and lets go in mid and duke it out.

 

However now, is not me harping on you but I'd like to know more details about this. You don't give specifics on what class is preventing you from capping which is leading me to believe in what I personally have seen. Now if you are speaking about the class being an Op, namingly Concealment Op, I'm in full agreement. I've seen it on streams, I've seen it in games where 1 Op can hold 4 players of capping the node. We can go into "nerf this class" and ***** and moan about how some want to nerf this class. Lets throw the 2 debilitate stuns, the 6 second roll out the window combined with decent heals out the window, considering they are using the debilitator set. I agree, 2 Concealment Ops causing that issue is not fun. Now if it's the 2nd group I'm thinking of, a Skank Tank and a Healer is another instance that can cause a 5v2, 6v2 hold. I will agree with you there if you were naming specifics but and this is a big BUT, if you are telling me that any other classes besides named examples are holding you guys off, then that's a communication issue, a "LTP" issue, a "I don't know their dcds, cds" whatever issue. That's just my opinion of what 2 groups can hold off people for awhile, I could name others but these 2 are more of the meta occurrence that I personally run into as to give examples. :)

Edited by crayzpanda
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The biggest issue I see with people failing to cap is L2P and that goes for void Star doors to Hypergates to any node game.

 

How many times do you inappropriately white bar a guy or break a CC while your team mates are trying to cap.

If someone is spinning around in the air, it’s a sure sign they are CCd and if they are white barred at the time, they probably can’t break it because they’ve used their breaker already. SO DONT ATTACK THEM because that breaks it and they can interrupt your cappers.

 

If you stun someone and they don’t break it, check their white bar. If they arent white barred and they don’t break, there is a good chance they haven’t used it yet. So don’t use another stun or cc on them till they do. Then you cc them and your guys can cap uninterrupted. YOU DONT HAVE TO KILL them to let your guys cap.

 

This goes for Hutt ball too. If you see a ball carrier heading towards a trap. Don’t stun them before the trap or white bar them because then they can run across the trap unmolested and you can’t stop them. Use a slow or mez to reduce their speed. Then stun their arse in the trap or push them into it or off the platform. Don’t ever stun or cc someone before a trap and don’t use other push abilities that also add resolve (white bar).

 

Half the battle at the moment is with your own team not understanding the basics. They aren’t hard to learn, but the DMing in ever match is dumbing down all other skills. If you can’t cap a node in a 2:1 or higher ratio, it is a 100% L2P issue. Either it’s your team around you or you or both.

 

The best solution is trying to educate yourselves and your team mates. There is a link in my signature to info that can help. And there is plenty of other resources out there too if you go looking or ask.

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