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Same gender relationships clarifications?


elexier

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Hey, since we're in new thread nostalgia mode, let me ask an old question I've never been able to get a straight answer to; Did anybody ever confirm if there was SGR in the closed beta? I've heard a few time that there was some, very unfinished stuff in there, but I've never heard anybody who played in the closed beta give more than a vague answer on this.
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Hey, since we're in new thread nostalgia mode, let me ask an old question I've never been able to get a straight answer to; Did anybody ever confirm if there was SGR in the closed beta? I've heard a few time that there was some, very unfinished stuff in there, but I've never heard anybody who played in the closed beta give more than a vague answer on this.

 

I was in beta and I didn't see any. I didn't go through the whole game in that time, though.

 

I DID see far more flirts available for female characters to male NPCs, though. A lot of those got taken out.

Edited by Kioma
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I was in beta and I didn't see any. I didn't go through the whole game in that time, though.

 

I DID see far more flirts available for female characters to male NPCs, though. A lot of those got taken out.

 

The way I heard it, and the people I heard it from could have been talking total BS, it was only in from about mid-June of last year to the first week in July, it was M/M and only on one companion for Trooper (I would assume Aric).

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The way I heard it, and the people I heard it from could have been talking total BS, it was only in from about mid-June of last year to the first week in July, it was M/M and only on one companion for Trooper (I would assume Aric).

 

Yeah, I didn't touch Trooper until post-launch. Could've been there, I couldn't say for sure.

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Hello all, just another voice in favor of same gender relationships in SWTOR. I adore Corso lol but definitely would far prefer similar attention from Kira while being able to play a character the same gender that I actually am. We get to make choices, light and dark, defiant or brown nosing. We are easily given the option of murdering Karrels Javis, or letting him go, though no one would claim by extension that Bioware supports murder, because we have that option. Just give us the harmless option of flirting with whomever we choose, please.
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Hello all, just another voice in favor of same gender relationships in SWTOR. I adore Corso lol but definitely would far prefer similar attention from Kira while being able to play a character the same gender that I actually am. We get to make choices, light and dark, defiant or brown nosing. We are easily given the option of murdering Karrels Javis, or letting him go, though no one would claim by extension that Bioware supports murder, because we have that option. Just give us the harmless option of flirting with whomever we choose, please.

 

Very well said. I doubt anyone at Bioware would support the painful torture of a human until his brain liquefies but that's in the game too.

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I do want to make something clear here that I don't think gets raised in this thread enough. and that is that I do really like this game. I plan to keep playing and just extended my play time for another sixty days (I do take breaks to come back fresh - game time cards are the most sensible option for me).

 

I also know this is still a new game, and new features do take time to happen and I am happy to make allowances for that. While I do feel same-gender content ought to have been in from the beginning, I am by no means storming the gates with pitchforks and torches and an angry mob to demand this go in at once.

 

However, I will say that my enjoyment of the game -- particularly on my male Gunslinger, otherwise my favorite character to play -- is substantially diminished without same-gender options for the romantic content that the game does feature, and that very much does include the [Flirt] options for mission NPCs as much as companion characters.

 

So where I have frustration regarding this content, it's two-fold: one, knowing it ought to be there but isn't and two, the uncertainty of the future of same-gender content given the changes at BioWare Austin since last month and the advent of F2P. I like the game, but I could like it much better. I can be patient if I know it is still coming, but news would certainly help.

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I do want to make something clear here that I don't think gets raised in this thread enough. and that is that I do really like this game. I plan to keep playing and just extended my play time for another sixty days (I do take breaks to come back fresh - game time cards are the most sensible option for me).

 

I also know this is still a new game, and new features do take time to happen and I am happy to make allowances for that. While I do feel same-gender content ought to have been in from the beginning, I am by no means storming the gates with pitchforks and torches and an angry mob to demand this go in at once.

 

However, I will say that my enjoyment of the game -- particularly on my male Gunslinger, otherwise my favorite character to play -- is substantially diminished without same-gender options for the romantic content that the game does feature, and that very much does include the [Flirt] options for mission NPCs as much as companion characters.

 

So where I have frustration regarding this content, it's two-fold: one, knowing it ought to be there but isn't and two, the uncertainty of the future of same-gender content given the changes at BioWare Austin since last month and the advent of F2P. I like the game, but I could like it much better. I can be patient if I know it is still coming, but news would certainly help.

 

I don't know. My thing with TOR is that it is a easy game to like, but, right now, it is a very hard game to love. I think if SGR were in I would be able to forgive the game a lot more of its... Issues. So much of the game feels like it is still unfinished that the overall game feels like it is in some kind of bizarre extended paid beta. Most of the little issues aren't even a big deal, but the overall effect they have is so irritating that it is hard not be be annoyed with the game at times. Just as an example, if the interface editor gave you the option to work with individual layers (and a better ability to adjust chat box size), I think that would be the one of the most useful features ever in an MMO, but right now it is this big mess of blobs it takes ten minutes of poking at to create something comfortable. There are a million little things like that just need some spit and polish to be perfect. At this point, I honestly would have rather waited six more months for the game and had a less rushed product then have spent as much time as I have mad at the game.

 

Having said that, the story is what brought me in, and the story is good... Mostly. There are some bits that aren't my favorite, and some parts felt like they were just tacked on to get the game out the door, but overall it works. To me it makes the grinding and the duller flashpoints worth it. Except it doesn't always, I have had a really hard time getting into the non-jedi/sith classes. I sloughed my way through the smuggler story becuase I enjoyed it, but I've never manged to get past act one with any of the others. I think if SGR was in it would give me the incentive to WANT to do an IA and Trooper play through. It would make me want to go back and do a SW replay. It would be a big part of finishing the story for me, and that's all I really want. :D

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Yes - that's pretty much my feeling as well (with the understanding that the first year of any MMO is a sort of paid beta). I like the game, but to actually have the same-gender content would allow me to enjoy it that much better.

 

Looks like we had some posts cleared, too. So just as a reminder (and I am as guilty as anyone else), don't feed the trolls. Flag problem posts and let them go.

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To summarize:

 

  • We were told that, as of last September, same-gender companion romances will be included in the game as "post-launch" content.
  • We know it will most likely be presented in the same way as existing romantic content, with a visibly marked option which one may choose or not.
  • We are told this content is coming "this year".

 

There are particular issues that remain uncertain, however, which have not to date been addressed and others which arise from changes to the planned direction of the game:

 

  • Is this content still slated for inclusion?
  • If so, are we still to expect it this year?
  • Will same-gender romantic options be available with current companions?
  • If so, with which?
  • If so, will the companion story need to be re-started from the beginning, or will the new content be available on companions who have journeyed with us and shared their stories all the way to level cap?
  • Will same-gender romantic options extend beyond companion romances, to the [Flirt] options seen from mission NPCs throughout the game?

 

Also, some metadiscussion questions arise from how information on this content has been handled:

 

  • Why was this never addressed in the old Community Q&A, however often it was asked?
  • Why, if discussion of this content is restricted to a single forum thread, do we only receive Community Team responses through anonymous replies in other threads or in private messages, but not the thread where discussion is allowed?
  • Is this issue the subject of some kind of special gag-rule from on high?
  • If so, are those responsible aware of how silence in regards to this content makes its active exclusion more disappointing?
  • How can we, as players interested in this content, assure our concerns are heard by those able to address them?
  • How can we know that, in fact, they are being heard when we, in turn, hear nothing?

 

Yes, a bump, but a useful and substantive bump I hope. And it was this or transgressively open a new thread in the forbidden precincts of the General Discussion board.

Edited by Uluain
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To summarize:

 

  • We were told that, as of last September, same-gender companion romances will be included in the game as "post-launch" content.
  • We know it will most likely be presented in the same way as existing romantic content, with a visibly marked option which one may choose or not.
  • We are told this content is coming "this year".

 

/snip.

 

IIRC they actually said "IF" they were going to add this feature it would be a "post-launch" feature.

I don't think they ever said ",,, It will be in, and before this time...." I could be completely wrong, but I doubt it.

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In this instance you are completely wrong. They said multiple times that SGR's were definitely coming, and at least once that they could be expected before the end of 2012. At the time, no ifs, ands, or buts.

 

I keep a fairly close eye on the developer tracker, and I don't remember ever reading that. Unless it was said during an interview at a guild event or gaming convention somewhere, I honestly don't believe it. Unless you can point me to a post where they actually confirmed it?

 

TBH I am not for or against it. marriage/romance in this game has absolutely no point in this game as it stands so IMHO there might as well not even be a romance option in this game anyway. I will admit there are people who might care. This is just my opinion.

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I keep a fairly close eye on the developer tracker, and I don't remember ever reading that. Unless it was said during an interview at a guild event or gaming convention somewhere, I honestly don't believe it. Unless you can point me to a post where they actually confirmed it?

 

Yeah, the thing is they go out of their way to make sure any official comments about this don't show up the dev tracker. Read through some of the back post on this thread and check out the FAQ here.

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IIRC they actually said "IF" they were going to add this feature it would be a "post-launch" feature.

I don't think they ever said ",,, It will be in, and before this time...." I could be completely wrong, but I doubt it.

 

Clarifying these ideas is a big reason why this thread is here, so let me lay out the low-down on these points.

 

The word that this really would be in game, but would be post-launch, came from then Community Manager Stephen Reid, last September 13. That was on the pre-launch forums, however, and the original post can no longer be retrieved. It is quoted in the third post on the front page of this thread, however.

 

The word that we could expect same-gender content this year came from a developer panel discussion at the Guild Summit, held in Austin last March. By Wednesday of next week, that will have been six months ago.

 

I really do appreciate you commenting in this thread even though this isn't something you care about either way. It is a good reminder that not everyone has the facts we've gathered on the issue, and that we should revisit them occasionally. New players do still come to the game every day, and some will want to know.

 

Player concern for this issue might be more apparent were this thread in a more heavily trafficked area of the forums, or if we were permitted discussion in multiple threads. To keep the lid on the pot, however, discussion only happens here, except when once in a while someone opens a thread on General which the Community Team can redirect to this one.

 

The Community Team has worked very hard over the eight months that this thread has been running to keep discussion civil and on topic, but the only response we have had over those eight months from the Community Team has been that they have no new information on it, that we should keep posting here and that they will certainly let us know as soon as they have anything to tell us.

 

Oddly, such responses are not posted in this thread, but either in locked threads where it appears under the non-tracked CommunitySupport alias, or else via PM to particular forum members who won't shut up about this, like myself. It is why I asked about a hypothetical gag rule in my bullet point summary above. Same-gender content is never addressed in a way that the Developer Tracker will track. We don't know why.

Edited by Uluain
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Clarifying these ideas is a big reason why this thread is here, so let me lay out the low-down on these points.

 

The word that this really would be in game, but would be post-launch, came from then Community Manager Stephen Reid, last September 13. That was on the pre-launch forums, however, and the original post can no longer be retrieved. It is quoted in the third post on the front page of this thread, however.

 

The word that we could expect same-gender content this year came from a developer panel discussion at the Guild Summit, held in Austin last March. By Wednesday of next week, that will have been six months ago.

 

I really do appreciate you commenting in this thread even though this isn't something you care about either way. It is a good reminder that not everyone has the facts we've gathered on the issue, and that we should revisit them occasionally. New players do still come to the game every day, and some will want to know.

 

Player concern for this issue might be more apparent were this thread in a more heavily trafficked area of the forums, or if we were permitted discussion in multiple threads. To keep the lid on the pot, however, discussion only happens here, except when once in a while someone opens a thread on General which the Community Team can redirect to this one.

 

Only word we have had from the Community Team has been that they have no new information on it, that we should keep posting here and that they will certainly let us know as soon as they have anything to tell us.

 

Oddly, such responses are not posted in this thread, but either in locked threads where it appears under the non-tracked CommunitySupport alias, or else via PM to particular forum members who won't shut up about this, like myself. It is why I asked about a hypothetical gag rule in my bullet point summary above. Same-gender content is never addressed in a way that the Developer Tracker will track. We don't know why.

It's kind of like the SWTOR forums are that guy. You know the one that claims to be your friend, just don't talk to them in public. Better yet pretend you don't know them. But hey we're still buddies right?

 

The lengths they go to avoid/misdirect/ignore/we're still buddies, just don't talk to us where anyone can see us has gotten pretty grating at this point.

 

They will keep people updated on Hood Toggles, Big Butt Jedi Robes, and Adding HM to Space Combat! (cause according to their metrics guy, almost half the players ran at least one space combat mission this month! Players must love space combat! :rolleyes: derp). But we try and get any new info from the places where everything else is discussed, we are shut down fast.

 

SGRA is the red headed stepchild of SWTOR, and stashing everything on one thread in an obscure board that gets little traffic with no news for months on something that was expected to be in soon after launch (If I'm recalling what one of the devs said correctly. Maybe I was inferring too much from the "We just didn't have time to get it in before launch. It'll be there soon." statement), leaves me with a real pissy feeling. And the fact that if they just came out and said something officially (which would alleviate some pissyness), yet refuse to do so makes me even more irksome!

 

Good lord people! Buck up and have the intestinal fortitude to make an official post! Either yay or nay!

 

All you get with silence is A: People think its not gonna happen and possibly leave, or B: People get tired of waiting and possibly leave.

 

Get it together, silence on a subject important to a goodly number of people at a time when your subs are bleeding wasn't a good idea. Staying silent after using you F2P card is just MMO suicide.

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I don't think that the Community Team is being devious out of malice. To me, this has all the earmarks of some kind of ill-conceived policy decision aimed, at my best guess, at containing controversy and limiting the amount of hateful remarks needing to be cleaned up.

 

After all, we have gotten updates recently - albeit of the "sorry, nothing new to tell you" variety. True, they have come through bizarre and labyrinthine paths, but the Community Team has gotten them to us.

 

But I do agree with you that this separate and inequal treatment of same-gender content discussion is rather unfortunate in the impression it conveys. So is the continued absence of any same-gender content from the actual game.

Edited by Uluain
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I realise this is "only" a game, but would any equal rights groups be interested in the nature of this treatment? There is nothing we can do as players at this point - perhaps involving a third party may be a possibility.

 

(Staying out of the thread now, honest. I mean it this time.)

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I realise this is "only" a game, but would any equal rights groups be interested in the nature of this treatment? There is nothing we can do as players at this point - perhaps involving a third party may be a possibility.

 

(Staying out of the thread now, honest. I mean it this time.)

 

Yes, it is a possibility. I would have to do some research, however, about which groups concern themselves with portrayals in entertainment media. EA has received awards and recognition for employment policies from the HRC and others, but this is something different.

 

I do think it is overkill, however, unless EA/BioWare renege on their commitment to same-gender inclusion. If that happens, I think the shame game might be in order.

 

To bring this back to topic, however, all of this would be moot if we could get a "yes, we still mean this; yes, it is still coming," regardless of whether or not the timeframe has changed.

 

I don't think word on that scale is too much to ask or to expect. I would like my bullet point questions to be addressed in full, but do see that may not be possible and is certainly unlikely.

 

It is not like we have had much luck with information to date.

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I keep a fairly close eye on the developer tracker, and I don't remember ever reading that. Unless it was said during an interview at a guild event or gaming convention somewhere, I honestly don't believe it. Unless you can point me to a post where they actually confirmed it?

 

TBH I am not for or against it. marriage/romance in this game has absolutely no point in this game as it stands so IMHO there might as well not even be a romance option in this game anyway. I will admit there are people who might care. This is just my opinion.

 

Dont know if you read it or not, but on page one of this thread you can read the official que up from BioWare, and in a thread he refrenced it will answer your question of if :)

 

And for the record I am FOR the addition of SGRA, would be awsome if I could romance Nadia Grell, but I think its pretty unlikely that companions currently in game will be romancable, if I missed a post that confirmed this for sure them I am sorry, but from what I have read on various posts I think only the new companions will be SGRAble. I dont often hope I am wrong, but this time I do :cool:

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And for the record I am FOR the addition of SGRA, would be awsome if I could romance Nadia Grell, but I think its pretty unlikely that companions currently in game will be romancable, if I missed a post that confirmed this for sure them I am sorry, but from what I have read on various posts I think only the new companions will be SGRAble. I dont often hope I am wrong, but this time I do :cool:

 

The actual quote on which companions would have SGRAs was, like everything else BW has ever said on the subject, annoyingly vague. It wasn't really clear if it would only be for new companions (in which case we should all be really pissed about HK being the first of these), or if they were working on adding it to some of the existing companions (the actual language of what was said at the guild conference favored this a little).

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It's a thought. Again, something I'd do if we were past the 1 year / 6 month spot from the two info drops we have had.

 

Isn't this thread about due for a new incarnation? Strange how even something like that not happening comes across now as some sort of dire portent.

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Just dropping in to show my support for the addition of SGRAs. This will definitely influence my decision on whether or not to continue my sub in the future.

 

Thanks for stopping by.

 

And I hate to say it but yes, the lack of any word on the fate of this content is really very quickly diminishing my willingness to spend money here. The lack of content is already pretty damn tacky from a company that knows better. Treating the issue and those who care about it as if they are of no concern is just a really bad move.

 

Community team, have you tried hot irons? Some times the old-fashioned ways of extracting information from recluctant sources work best.

Edited by Uluain
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