Hello everyone

 

Sometimes I think that you Devs never play your own game. This what I see on PTS looks like confirmation

Simply example : I have been playing my Jedi Guardian since 2015, all time abo and since 2015 I use Awe, Saber reflect and Blade Blitz. Many many times I was a "tank" with my Jedi Guardian dps or my Commando dps. I was a "last man standing" but I was calm with my nice ability and now after 6 years you force me to choose ?? I cant use those all ability together no more? Please tell me how can it be better ?? That "good changes" are happend to all class.

 

I will be painfully honest with you. You are going the same way as Blizzard. Many of us don't want that and that's why this post. Hope dies last. There is still time to make it good.

Wait, so as a DPS you were able to play the part of a tank due to an overwhelming about of DcDs that allowed for basically an infinite rotation of them?

 

Seems you answered your own question as to why the changes are "[for the] better".

 

Earlier today I had a Hardmode battle of Ilum pop, and the tank was useless, and the other dps was garbage. I forgot that I didn't pass over my proper gear prior, but as a mando I was able to survive with the healer up my butt and proper use of my dcds, while still carrying the team's dps needs.

 

That is an issue, even if I like how that feels. There are reasons for the changes, and while I still hate some of them, there are reasons for them. Some aren't reason enough, awe for instance isn't that powerful without forcebound, but don't act like it is all terribad decisions wholesale.

After reading all the panic, doom and gloom, I leveled up a character on my favorite class on the PTS and honestly, I liked the changes. I'm not sold on the slower progression of abilities as you level, but the end result was that I enjoyed that class at least as much as before. I had to choose between a couple things I was used to having, but some of the choices made other abilities even better. I didn't really take the time to experiment with all the classes. I figure there will be plenty of time to figure that out between 7.0 and 8.0.

After reading all the panic, doom and gloom, I leveled up a character on my favorite class on the PTS and honestly, I liked the changes. I'm not sold on the slower progression of abilities as you level, but the end result was that I enjoyed that class at least as much as before. I had to choose between a couple things I was used to having, but some of the choices made other abilities even better. I didn't really take the time to experiment with all the classes. I figure there will be plenty of time to figure that out between 7.0 and 8.0.

 

I remember when 6.0 was coming out and there was doom and gloom on the forums just to have pts be in a similar level of mess it is right now. A lot of issues, a few major ones I don't see getting fixed (Last time it was mainly crafting, this time it is mainly gearing, specifically the way the grind will work for alts.), but in general the idea the devs have for the game shows through and if you change your perspective to match it, it makes it easier to swallow some of the changes. The level 73 choice feels bad for everyone, but if you consider the level of defensives that are available right now, it makes sense.

Hello everyone

 

Sometimes I think that you Devs never play your own game. This what I see on PTS looks like confirmation

Simply example : I have been playing my Jedi Guardian since 2015, all time abo and since 2015 I use Awe, Saber reflect and Blade Blitz. Many many times I was a "tank" with my Jedi Guardian dps or my Commando dps. I was a "last man standing" but I was calm with my nice ability and now after 6 years you force me to choose ?? I cant use those all ability together no more? Please tell me how can it be better ?? That "good changes" are happend to all class.

 

I will be painfully honest with you. You are going the same way as Blizzard. Many of us don't want that and that's why this post. Hope dies last. There is still time to make it good.

When I see posts like this, I cannot help but feel its for attention.

Why?

Because there is a board for the PTS. But, posting in General will get more eyes of the player base (same amount or less of the Devs). So, it just screams, "Look at me! Listen to me! Agree with me!". Why would you post this here instead of the PTS forum? To, me, its just as simple as attention seeking. Unless there is another reason to post in general chat, that I do not know about, its all about attention seeking from a wider player base. Because the majority of posters, in general do not read the PTS forum. So, it cant be for the "Devs", its for attention and for the wider player base and not really for the Dev team. Or else you would have posted this where it belongs, the PTS forum.

 

Or at least thats the way it comes off to me. No offense intended here, just an observation.

After reading all the panic, doom and gloom, I leveled up a character on my favorite class on the PTS and honestly, I liked the changes. I'm not sold on the slower progression of abilities as you level, but the end result was that I enjoyed that class at least as much as before. I had to choose between a couple things I was used to having, but some of the choices made other abilities even better. I didn't really take the time to experiment with all the classes. I figure there will be plenty of time to figure that out between 7.0 and 8.0.

 

This is exactly how I feel about the changes. My biggest gripes are with the level progression and that it feels extremely slow right from the start. It almost reaches vanilla levels where you had to grind for ages before you were able to get new abilities. Another thing that I am not too excited about are the changes to the endgame gearing system. I am genuinely happy for the hardcore raiders as they will finally get something out of a new expansion, but since I am not a raider I don't really care about getting the highest iRating moddable gear.

 

Apart from that I don't mind having to choose between abilities that were considered baseline for the class, because it was simply too easy (and cheesy) to keep certain classes alive for far too long. Now with some of the utilities rolled into the abilities themselves, it does feel like they are more powerful on their own.

 

I remember when 6.0 was coming out and there was doom and gloom on the forums...

 

This is nothing new and you can trace this all the way back to 3.0 when they really started to address the problems with power creep and balance for the first time by introducing streamlined discipline paths instead of talent trees. Every expansion after that was supposed to be the final nail in the coffin.

Edited January 23, 2022 by Phazonfreak

I remember when 6.0 was coming out and there was doom and gloom on the forums just to have pts be in a similar level of mess it is right now.

 

Mood now feels closer to what was happening before 5.0 and we all know how that ended. I was praising 6.0 changes after trying them out on PTS and I while it was some time ago and it's possible I misremember things I don't feel people were opposing my praise too vigorously.

Bioware Magic Is Bull <== the link is broken because the word in *s is censored on these forums. The word starts with bull and ends with a 4-letter variation on crap.

 

I get that some of you are bad players, you hate having options you can't use and since you can't use them no one else should have them either. If you want to right now you can take buttons off your toolbar but that's too hard for you, you need Bioware to do it to everyone, right? Guardians having saber reflect and blade blitz aren't the reason swtor's pve or pvp balance is currently broken. Sentinels with blade blitz and pacify aren't either. Leveling without them on a toolbar is not noticeably more challenging. They're just arbitrarily getting removed for the sake of removing them.

 

Complaints about changes have existed in every expansion for every MMO in existence. But would any of you (that aren't being paid by BW) say that swtor is doing "well" right now? Since they're removing almost every change implemented in 5.0 and 6.0 would you say 7.0 Bioware agrees they were good expansions? Or even 4.0's design philosophy of targeting and catering to solo players, giving us lots of cut scenes and ignoring group content? For the game's 10-year anniversary, who really cares about the leveling experience?

 

No expansion in swtor's history has had 7.0's negative feedback pre launch. The best I've heard from anyone outside of this thread is "it's not that bad" or "I'm looking forward to some parts of it". And while the number of people saying the game will die because of this patch is very small, the number of people saying they won't play it is actually very significant.

Edited January 23, 2022 by Savej

 

No expansion in swtor's history has had 7.0's negative feedback pre launch. The best I've heard from anyone outside of this thread is "it's not that bad" or "I'm looking forward to some parts of it". And while the number of people saying the game will die because of this patch is very small, the number of people saying they won't play it is actually very significant.

 

That's the thing really.

 

Haven't seen anyone excited about not being able to mod their gear until high level.

Haven't seen anyone excited about being limited to certain activities in the group finder.

Haven't seen anyone happy about the way skills are culled (I thought some classes had too many damage abilities. Didn't mean I wanted to get rid of the situational ones).

 

And considering that getting gear and running activities while using our combat skills is pretty much all there is to do after the (short) story, it means that they are completely changing the end game. And not in a good way.

 

They're basically nerfing everything (don't get me started on how mediocre legendaries seem to be - seems you're better off using regular implants with accuracy than them).

 

So yeah it's a pretty big deal.

Edited January 23, 2022 by Pricia

For those actually liking the removal of core abilities, do you even pvp? Do you even play any high level content?

 

The people I see enjoying these stupid changes are the ones that uses auto-attack from level 1 to 75 and only play story mode content.

Complaints about changes have existed in every expansion for every MMO in existence. But would any of you (that aren't being paid by BW) say that swtor is doing "well" right now?

 

Swtor and its complete mess of an engine has not been doing "well" ever since its release and even before it became a F2P product with a completely different monetization model.

 

Since they're removing almost every change implemented in 5.0 and 6.0 would you say 7.0 Bioware agrees they were good expansions? Or even 4.0's design philosophy of targeting and catering to solo players, giving us lots of cut scenes and ignoring group content?

 

Since all expansions after 3.0 have been going back and forth either focusing on the casual or the hardcore audience in a repeating loop while changing the way endgame progression and gearing works every single time, I would say Bioware doesn't agree on anything except maybe that we will see yet another loop when 8.0 comes around in a few years. Unless of course we will finally get another Star Wars MMORPG that will succeed this game.

 

For the game's 10-year anniversary, who really cares about the leveling experience?

 

I would say that returning and new players will care quite a bit about the leveling experience, especially since Combat Styles will allow them to pick vastly different story and combat combinations for their characters.

 

But you have to excuse me now, I have to decide what to do with all the money I got from BioWare...

Edited January 23, 2022 by Phazonfreak

For those actually liking the removal of core abilities, do you even pvp? Do you even play any high level content?

 

The people I see enjoying these stupid changes are the ones that uses auto-attack from level 1 to 75 and only play story mode content.

 

Being honest, most people don't. PVP is pretty much a very low activity. Same as Raiding. Realistically, most people generally play the game for story and to simply play.

 

I've been on this latest iteration of the PTS since it went up. Thats about 5, maybe 6 weeks. I've done the main storyline a brand new character, BH-Commando. Also played it with a transfer of a character.

Leveled them both. Leveling is the same pace. Yes, you miss one or 2 abilities. An example for my Merc-Bodyguard, I don't like the choice to Either choose to be mobile healer (Progressive Scan/Unload while running) or stationary with Kolto Surge to make sure I'm healed/or the shell works better. I think it will end up being situational.

 

What is really going to bother everyone, will be a massive grind.

**Galactic Seasons.

**Getting underworld plans to level a rep. But really nothing else on PTS. There is no vendor.

**The 100k personal conquest. Also the 200k weekly. Some weeks its easy, others like this week is a grind.

**The grind for better gear, specifically Aquatic Matrices.

**The grind everyone is going to want to do...for...no reason.

**The reputation grind for the new Shadow Syndicate. Only 7k each week max. And you WILL want to max that with somehow getting 100 plans a week.

 

Today, I've unlocked Hero. There was no additional quest, nothing exciting. That may change.

My IR is 322. Maxed both pistols 326.

I miss my Taskmaster set bonus with my companion, the bonus no longer works at 80. Not impressed.

The 322 IR, doesnt make me feel any more tougher than live. I use Concussion missile to stun more often on Golds, and use Heroic moment more often to speed up Heroics.

 

7.0 is going to happen. People should be testing it on PTS to see what it will do to their character and gameplay.

 

Oh...and max out your tech fragments...you'll need them.

When I see posts like this, I cannot help but feel its for attention.

Why?

Because there is a board for the PTS. But, posting in General will get more eyes of the player base (same amount or less of the Devs). So, it just screams, "Look at me! Listen to me! Agree with me!". Why would you post this here instead of the PTS forum? To, me, its just as simple as attention seeking. Unless there is another reason to post in general chat, that I do not know about, its all about attention seeking from a wider player base. Because the majority of posters, in general do not read the PTS forum. So, it cant be for the "Devs", its for attention and for the wider player base and not really for the Dev team. Or else you would have posted this where it belongs, the PTS forum.

 

Or at least thats the way it comes off to me. No offense intended here, just an observation.

 

There's a level of visibility on the general forum that isn't on the PTS forum. Posting topics like these can get someone's attention who maybe wouldn't ordinarily see it, and then, maybe, they get curious enough to download PTS and try it out themselves...in effect creating a new PST tester for feedback.

 

It's a very useful tool.

 

You may not like seeing multiple threads about (vaguely) the same topic, but that tends to happen anyway about more than just the PTS.

Edited January 23, 2022 by Darev

There's a level of visibility on the general forum that isn't on the PTS forum. Posting topics like these can get someone's attention who maybe wouldn't ordinarily see it, and then, maybe, they get curious enough to download PTS and try it out themselves...in effect creating a new PST tester for feedback.

 

It's a very useful tool.

 

You may not like seeing multiple threads about (vaguely) the same topic, but that tends to happen anyway about more than just the PTS.

But, the issue is, he/she is specifically addressing the Devs. If you want the Devs to see what you're saying about PTS, they should post in the PTS forum.

 

It would be completely moot if they were addressing other players, but they're not. That is what makes me think its about attention, posting to the devs about the PTS, but in general and not PTS forum. If that makes any sense. Like I said, not meaning to offend anyone, just an observation. If you want to post to the other players, cool, be up front about it. This seems more like a way to 'say' its to the devs, but is actually pointed directly at other players. IDK maybe I am just reading too much in to it. Like I said, just an observation, not an attack or meant to offend.

Mood now feels closer to what was happening before 5.0 and we all know how that ended. I was praising 6.0 changes after trying them out on PTS and I while it was some time ago and it's possible I misremember things I don't feel people were opposing my praise too vigorously.

 

This is fair, but I have seen still a fair amount of positive feedback on the forums this time compared to 5.0, and I think I should include myself in that group. The class change feedback made an overall positive impact I feel in what active abilities they moved into the "optional void". Stuff like saber throw should have never been in there, and now it does feel like they have toned it back properly, for the most part *cough* explosive dart *cough*

 

 

For those actually liking the removal of core abilities, do you even pvp? Do you even play any high level content?

 

The people I see enjoying these stupid changes are the ones that uses auto-attack from level 1 to 75 and only play story mode content.

 

For the record I play pvp, and dabble in ranked when I am in the mood. I also have been healing through the legacy NiM content recently, and that has been going well. I have tanked Legacy HMs on every tank spec, and I know my way around a handful of the dps specs, enough that I pull threat of tanks in world bosses (doing feast RN), and in HM flashpoints. I also have beaten both kotfe/kotet on Master Mode.

 

So I think I can speak with SOME level of backing to my words. Do I know all the ins and outs of IO? No. Do I know enough that I am still annoyed that explosive dart is made an option and doesn't dot bounce in 7.x, YES. However, I think the devs are "intending" the AoE tactical to be the "proper" way to dot bounce.

 

The current level of survivability is ABSURD. Some classes, PT tank for example, did need some buffs and they got them. Some aren't really high on survivablity but high on cheese that might as well translate to survivability in everything but PvP, jedi guardian comes to mind, Nothing really great for long term but short term it can cheese the big hits. On the latter the devs should add in some extra DR in the base kits, and they might have (I didn't go into super depth past just reading all the abilities and some testing on the three dps classes I knew the best, two tanks, and one healer). Keep in mind also that healers do seem to be getting a buff in the next expansion, so that could mitigate the concerns with pvp, outside of solo ranked and low population pops.

 

 

Finally, most of the people who are visiting the forums more than the one time to drop fairly uninformed feedback on the pts aren't going to be in these types of posts. Most of us have at least read the changes, and a decent chunk have played on the pts (including myself in this group)

...

But you have to excuse me now, I have to decide what to do with all the money I got from BioWare...

 

LOL, I must have missed it - do you think you were defending Bioware?

Being honest, most people don't. PVP is pretty much a very low activity. Same as Raiding. Realistically, most people generally play the game for story and to simply play.

...

 

PVP in this game is more popular than raiding. Shortly after the game launched, when it had millions of subs, a dev announced "nearly half of all players participating in Warzones" - lots of people came here with an open mind to PVP, it should have received far more attention than it got (beyond just shutting down Ilum). But most players that have played this game for more than a few months have at least dipped their toes in both PVP and raiding.

The only people who like this gutting of classes must be casual rp-ers or story players, because to them it makes no difference. But for someone who plays regular and ranked, these changes can totally destroy one's class . The same applies to anyone looking to do hard endgame content , but for PVP a juggernaut is already garbage and due to these changes they get the final nail in their coffin .

 

Don't be mistaken by the people posting and testing on PTS. Yes, there is 90% negative feedback because obviously these changes make absolutely no sense at all and they are done without any purpose other than gutting for the sake it, but the vast majority of players playing the game have no clue about what is coming . What you see on pts and pts forums is not even 1% of the players . The rest will find out as they play 7.0 .

 

They could have nerfed the defensives without making us choose between them very easily by changing somehting that gives 30% dmg reduction to only 10% , but no. They need to dumb down the game , it's too complicated as it is .

Wait, so as a DPS you were able to play the part of a tank due to an overwhelming about of DcDs that allowed for basically an infinite rotation of them?

 

Yeah. Kind of like how tanks and healers can also do damage, not just DPS.

The only people who like this gutting of classes must be casual rp-ers or story players

 

As it pertains to the Guardian nerfs at least, I think it's mostly PvPers who are unhappy that their dogpile takes a minute longer. As a mostly casual story player and very light RPer, there's nothing remotely pleasing about the gutting of the classes, or in trying to have that iconic single saber Jedi where you can either move quickly, or deflect blasters, but not both, despite having been able to do both for years.

For those actually liking the removal of core abilities, do you even pvp? Do you even play any high level content?

 

The people I see enjoying these stupid changes are the ones that uses auto-attack from level 1 to 75 and only play story mode content.

 

I have to ask, I've read so many different conflicting things concerning the "pruning of skills" that I cannot see straight. I main a Guardian and Jugg Tank. Are they making me choose between those DCDs that the tanks depend on when facing mobs of all types and bosses? Namely, Reflect, Awe, Blade Blitz, and a couple others that are intrinsically tied in with the tanks? If they are, I need to know now. Thanks.

I have to ask, I've read so many different conflicting things concerning the "pruning of skills" that I cannot see straight. I main a Guardian and Jugg Tank. Are they making me choose between those DCDs that the tanks depend on when facing mobs of all types and bosses? Namely, Reflect, Awe, Blade Blitz, and a couple others that are intrinsically tied in with the tanks? If they are, I need to know now. Thanks.

 

Yes they are making you pick between reflect and blade blitz, however this is not a bad change.

 

For PvE: The content is too easy, the classes are too easy - taking away options to handle with situations does not make a class easier. Taking away options makes you use the ones you have to better extend thus increasing the skill you need to beat hard bosses, matter of fact and the truth is that there is not a single actually hard boss in this game at this very moment. Furthermore they do not take away anything, you can still have both dcds, just not at the same time. Nothing stops you from changing during an Operation, you can take what you want for a boss - just like utilities just that it actually matters now.

 

For PvP reading your oponents will reward you more than it does now since as skilled player you should know what the choices are for other classes and remember them, so if I see you use reflect I know that you cannot possibly have maddash root break, this could be huge for tank games in ranked and will rewards the player with more awareness and skill - as it should.

 

As a final thought, 6.0 handed everything to everyone for free. Credits, PvE-Prestige to a certain degree, Gear etc. you were still limited by your stats, just like you are in 7.0. You are still limited in the classes / comps you can do for certain bosses and teamranked. Try to not expect everything for free, there are things that get their value only from not everyone being able to get it, this is exactly why PvP is infact harder and more challenging then PvE.

Yes they are making you pick between reflect and blade blitz, however this is not a bad change.

 

For PvE: The content is too easy, the classes are too easy - taking away options to handle with situations does not make a class easier. Taking away options makes you use the ones you have to better extend thus increasing the skill you need to beat hard bosses, matter of fact and the truth is that there is not a single actually hard boss in this game at this very moment. Furthermore they do not take away anything, you can still have both dcds, just not at the same time. Nothing stops you from changing during an Operation, you can take what you want for a boss - just like utilities just that it actually matters now.

 

For PvP reading your oponents will reward you more than it does now since as skilled player you should know what the choices are for other classes and remember them, so if I see you use reflect I know that you cannot possibly have maddash root break, this could be huge for tank games in ranked and will rewards the player with more awareness and skill - as it should.

 

As a final thought, 6.0 handed everything to everyone for free. Credits, PvE-Prestige to a certain degree, Gear etc. you were still limited by your stats, just like you are in 7.0. You are still limited in the classes / comps you can do for certain bosses and teamranked. Try to not expect everything for free, there are things that get their value only from not everyone being able to get it, this is exactly why PvP is infact harder and more challenging then PvE.

Nope.

 

Using the skills effectively as they are requires skill in the first place. Making you choose means there's less you can do with your class, i.e. if anything, it's simplification to lower the skill ceiling.

 

there are things that get their value only from not everyone being able to get it

This mentality is and has always been an awful trait of video game communities that puts a lot of people off the whole hobby and I don't blame them one bit. Who would want to do a hobby where they get told that 497 out of 500 people who do it shouldn't get specific cool things so 3 people can strut around and feel special. I mean, you laid out transparently what it's about. Some people disguise it and try to say it's about the challenge and showing off what they did, but you just said outright that the value is from other people not being able to get it. Like you specifically want it to be designed so there will be haves and have nots, and you'll be one of the haves. That's not even about competition, it's just an elitist class fantasy.

Nope.

 

Using the skills effectively as they are requires skill in the first place. Making you choose means there's less you can do with your class, i.e. if anything, it's simplification to lower the skill ceiling.

That may be true for utility skills, but it's not defensives. When you remove defensives, it becomes harder to survive. With more limited survival tools you'll have to be more careful when to use them, and you can afford less overall damage.

Yes they are making you pick between reflect and blade blitz, however this is not a bad change.

 

For PvE: The content is too easy, the classes are too easy - taking away options to handle with situations does not make a class easier. Taking away options makes you use the ones you have to better extend thus increasing the skill you need to beat hard bosses, matter of fact and the truth is that there is not a single actually hard boss in this game at this very moment. Furthermore they do not take away anything, you can still have both dcds, just not at the same time. Nothing stops you from changing during an Operation, you can take what you want for a boss - just like utilities just that it actually matters now.

 

For PvP reading your oponents will reward you more than it does now since as skilled player you should know what the choices are for other classes and remember them, so if I see you use reflect I know that you cannot possibly have maddash root break, this could be huge for tank games in ranked and will rewards the player with more awareness and skill - as it should.

 

As a final thought, 6.0 handed everything to everyone for free. Credits, PvE-Prestige to a certain degree, Gear etc. you were still limited by your stats, just like you are in 7.0. You are still limited in the classes / comps you can do for certain bosses and teamranked. Try to not expect everything for free, there are things that get their value only from not everyone being able to get it, this is exactly why PvP is infact harder and more challenging then PvE.

 

Your opinion stays valid if you post your operations achievements progression. You can't possibly talk about bosses being easy without clearing them first.

 

And although I agree partially I must point out that raiding is not main point of this game sadly. In wow they do it perfectly and raids always have different, thematic and engaging mechanics. Here are only thematic at best. Leave the circle, cleanse, avoid aoe, interrupt. That's basically it.

 

We would love to see some more challenging mechanics. Something niche or extravagant even. Something that would intrigue us to a point of wanting to keep spamming that operation for the pure fun of it.