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Updated Level Sync/Companion Update Thoughts


Zergnaut

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So... In todays latest PTS build. Level sync feels a lot better. In places where I just got nuked in seconds by NPCs such as belsavis weeklys/dailys. Now I actually can survive with some finesse. With that said I still think the presence cap on companions should be REMOVED.

 

If you dont remove it its literally pointless to get our companions to 50 for more of the solo player. At 80 without the cap a lvl 50 companion is great. But with the presence cap in level sync areas there is next to no difference between a level 10 and a 50 companion.

Edited by Zergnaut
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I tested it as well and agree it is pretty close to where it should be. A level 80 character with a level 50 companion (and the appropriate gear) should be able to complete most synced story/heroic content without having to wait between mobs for their defensives to come off cooldown every fight. I also noticed that Kira now seems to be using her CC ability correctly, which is very important for classes that don't have good CC abilities like the Combat Sentinel (CCs on something you attack in melee is just silly)
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I also noticed that Kira now seems to be using her CC ability correctly, which is very important for classes that don't have good CC abilities like the Combat Sentinel (CCs on something you attack in melee is just silly)

 

Agreed. Before Mako would focus attack the target she CCd. Now she ignores the target. Helps my Merc a LOT!

 

I still think the presence cap should be removed. Will it make a lvl 50 companion feel OP if they do it? Yes. But it SHOULD! If you spent all the time and effort to get them to 50 they should feel a bit OP. As I said above, with the current system there is no incentive what to ever to get a companion to 50 for more of a solo player. There is very little difference atm between a level 10 and 50 companion in level synced content due to the cap

Edited by Zergnaut
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Agreed. Before Mako would focus attack the target she CCd. Now she ignores the target. Helps my Merc a LOT!

 

I still think the presence cap should be removed. Will it make a lvl 50 companion feel OP if they do it? Yes. But it SHOULD! If you spent all the time and effort to get them to 50 they should feel a bit OP. As I said above, with the current system there is no incentive what to ever to get a companion to 50 for more of a solo player. There is very little difference atm between a level 10 and 50 companion in level synced content due to the cap

 

Exactly. I worked hard to complete my class stories and to get my companions to 50. That work should be rewarded.

 

If people want things harder, they can just dismiss their companions

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Exactly. I worked hard to complete my class stories and to get my companions to 50. That work should be rewarded.

 

If people want things harder, they can just dismiss their companions

 

Yep. or Simply use a non level 50 companion

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Update on Companions....

 

Hi folks,

 

 

One last thing I wanted to address is companions, and their effectiveness in combat. The root cause for companions suddenly becoming worse tanks or not drawing aggro or dealing damage as expected was a bug in how their base stats were applied when loading into a planet or area. This caused some of their stats to be missing or inaccurate, which made things like their taunt ability or area of effect damage abilities miss their target NPC every time. The fix for the companion issue is also coming in the 7.0.2 update.

 

An additional note on companions and their effectiveness: the Presence base stat does scale in Level Synced content to reflect the amount of base Presence a player would expect to have in that level range. This would apply to Presence earned through character level-up and from equipment. However, the system does not scale any bonus Presence earned from raising the influence levels of companions, so companions with high influence levels will always be more effective across all content where companions can be used.

 

Thanks!

-Chris

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Update on Companions....

 

"An additional note on companions and their effectiveness: the Presence base stat does scale in Level Synced content to reflect the amount of base Presence a player would expect to have in that level range."

 

Does the mean they are or are not scaling presence from legacy unlocks? Next to no one is running lowby alts with presence augments, so what are they actually scaling?

Edited by Damask_Rose
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"An additional note on companions and their effectiveness: the Presence base stat does scale in Level Synced content to reflect the amount of base Presence a player would expect to have in that level range."

 

Does the mean they are or are not scaling presence from legacy unlocks? Next to no one is running lowby alts with presence augments, so what are they actually scaling?

 

I don't think this brain trust is aware there are legacy unlocks

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"An additional note on companions and their effectiveness: the Presence base stat does scale in Level Synced content to reflect the amount of base Presence a player would expect to have in that level range."

 

Does the mean they are or are not scaling presence from legacy unlocks? Next to no one is running lowby alts with presence augments, so what are they actually scaling?

 

He was pretty clear. He said only base presence caps. So means just the base level. Period nothing else. The example he gave of presence that doesnt cap was just ONE example of many. Legacy presence is not part of base presence and neither are companion levels.

Edited by Zergnaut
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"An additional note on companions and their effectiveness: the Presence base stat does scale in Level Synced content to reflect the amount of base Presence a player would expect to have in that level range."

 

Does the mean they are or are not scaling presence from legacy unlocks? Next to no one is running lowby alts with presence augments, so what are they actually scaling?

 

Well, you character has a "base" Presence Stat that is only determined by your level. If I understand this correctly, this is what they are intending to scale.

Then bonus presence from various sources is added to this. This includes Influence, datacrons and legacy unlocks. These should not be scaled.

 

That being said, it does not seem like the system is working as intended, otherwise we'd be seeing a much larger difference for Influence. The legacy unlocks are difficult to test, as you can't turn them off for comparison.

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Well, you character has a "base" Presence Stat that is only determined by your level. If I understand this correctly, this is what they are intending to scale.

Exactly! This guy gets it base means only the base stat caps thats it.

 

 

That being said, it does not seem like the system is working as intended, otherwise we'd be seeing a much larger difference for Influence. The legacy unlocks are difficult to test, as you can't turn them off for comparison.

 

Its not. In live currently EVERYTHING scales. Thats whats broken atm. The patch will fix that. As for the PTS chris should have been more clear. This companion issue is in the next PTS build. Im sure it will be pushed to the PTS Monday. When this current PTS build dropped the issue had not been identified yet.

Edited by Zergnaut
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Well, you character has a "base" Presence Stat that is only determined by your level. If I understand this correctly, this is what they are intending to scale.

Then bonus presence from various sources is added to this. This includes Influence, datacrons and legacy unlocks. These should not be scaled.

 

That being said, it does not seem like the system is working as intended, otherwise we'd be seeing a much larger difference for Influence. The legacy unlocks are difficult to test, as you can't turn them off for comparison.

 

After I posted I went and checked on line. Sorry, I didn't realize they broke down presence to base and total. On live, the base presence is the only one that shows as scaling, but it doesn't feel like the total number is making any difference in performance. (Base presence is only a fraction of the total on an old legacy, so scaling that shouldn't have much impact.) If anyone knows how to test the efficacy of presence I can test it between servers. It feels like the lvl 6 companion I have on a fresh server is not much, if any, worse than a lvl 50 companion on my fully legacy unlocked main server even though we are talking about a huge difference in presence, but I don't have numbers to verify that. If there is a good way to test, then I will also test the fix on the PTS to see if it really is doing what it is supposed to do.

 

In live currently EVERYTHING scales. Thats whats broken atm. The patch will fix that.

 

I don't think that is right either. On live, my lvl 75 character had base 900, bonus 3,058 presence in my Nar Shadaa stronghold. When I went planet side, my base dropped to 100 and something (sorry, didn't write it down), but my bonus remained at 3,058. So, at least according to the stats given on the character sheet, only base presence is scaling. Maybe the character sheet is inaccurate, or maybe presence isn't working as intended?

Edited by Damask_Rose
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After I posted I went and checked on line. Sorry, I didn't realize they broke down presence to base and total. On live, the base presence is the only one that shows as scaling, but it doesn't feel like the total number is making any difference in performance. (Base presence is only a fraction of the total on an old legacy, so scaling that shouldn't have much impact.) If anyone knows how to test the efficacy of presence I can test it between servers. It feels like the lvl 6 companion I have on a fresh server is not much, if any, worse than a lvl 50 companion on my fully legacy unlocked main server even though we are talking about a huge difference in presence, but I don't have numbers to verify that. If there is a good way to test, then I will also test the fix on the PTS to see if it really is doing what it is supposed to do.

 

 

 

I don't think that is right either. On live, my lvl 75 character had base 900, bonus 3,058 presence in my Nar Shadaa stronghold. When I went planet side, my base dropped to 100 and something (sorry, didn't write it down), but my bonus remained at 3,058. So, at least according to the stats given on the character sheet, only base presence is scaling. Maybe the character sheet is inaccurate, or maybe presence isn't working as intended?

 

Your base (Legacy bonuses + gear bonuses + level bonuses) is what is scaled to the planetary level. The "bonus" is from mostly companion influence (Command stims seem to be part of this as well). If you get on a mount, you will see that your "bonus" mostly disappears. The formula used to calculate Companion strength is also changed from 6.0 making the companions weaker at the same Presence rating. Right now on live, there is little difference between an influence 1 and Influence 50 companion (On Makeb, Soothe heals 3245-3715 for an influence 5 companion and 3431-3901 for an Influence 50 - a difference of less than 200 health per 10 seconds - 7 cooldowns).

 

The companion fix for missed abilities (the CC in particular for healers has not been migrated to Live yet) nor has the AI fix that keeps the companions from attacking the CC'd NPC.

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Well, if that is correct we have found part of the problem. Legacy Bonuses need to be unscaled.

 

Level 80 Combat Sentinel. No Command stims active. Galactic Datacron Master Achievement. Legendary Status. All companions unlocked (+10 Presence each).

 

Level 80 Area (Nar Shadaa Stronghold)

 

Base: 1035

Bonus (Inf 50): 3034

Bonus (Inf 1): 584

 

Taris (Sync Level 21)

 

Base: 121

Bonus (Inf 50): 3034

Bonus (Inf 1): 584

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Level 80 Combat Sentinel. No Command stims active. Galactic Datacron Master Achievement. Legendary Status. All companions unlocked (+10 Presence each).

 

Level 80 Area (Nar Shadaa Stronghold)

 

Base: 1035

Bonus (Inf 50): 3034

Bonus (Inf 1): 584

 

Taris (Sync Level 21)

 

Base: 121

Bonus (Inf 50): 3034

Bonus (Inf 1): 584

 

Ok but that would actually mean that it is in the uncapped bonus.

All companions unlocked: +10 each x 40 companions = +400 total

Legendary status +100

Datacrons.. something between +30 and +40, not exactly sure but let's take a wild guess and assume it's +34 (because then the math works out ;) )

 

That's a total bonus (without influence) of 400+100+34= 534

 

Influence gives +50 per level

 

So at influence 1 we get influence bonus 50, total bonus 534+50 = 584

At influence 50 the influence bonus is 50*50=2500, total bonus 534 + 2500 =3034

 

These are exactly the uncapped bonus-numbers you posted.

Edited by Real_Dark_Lord
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Ok but that would actually mean that it is in the uncapped bonus.

All companions unlocked: +10 each x 40 companions = +400 total

Legendary status +100

Datacrons.. something between +30 and +40, not exactly sure but let's take a wild guess and assume it's +34 (because then the math works out ;) )

 

That's a total bonus (without influence) of 400+100+34= 534

 

Influence gives +50 per level

 

So at influence 1 we get influence bonus 50, total bonus 534+50 = 584

At influence 50 the influence bonus is 50*50=2500, total bonus 534 + 2500 =3034

 

These are exactly the uncapped bonus-numbers you posted.

 

yes, it looks like Presence is treated differently from the other abilities. Stims add on top as well. When 7.0 came out all these were capped. It looks like that cap on bonus was removed in the last patch. I don't have any Presence gear so I can't confirm that is uncapped as well.

Edited by DWho
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After I posted I went and checked on line. Sorry, I didn't realize they broke down presence to base and total. On live, the base presence is the only one that shows as scaling, but it doesn't feel like the total number is making any difference in performance. (Base presence is only a fraction of the total on an old legacy, so scaling that shouldn't have much impact.) If anyone knows how to test the efficacy of presence I can test it between servers. It feels like the lvl 6 companion I have on a fresh server is not much, if any, worse than a lvl 50 companion on my fully legacy unlocked main server even though we are talking about a huge difference in presence, but I don't have numbers to verify that. If there is a good way to test, then I will also test the fix on the PTS to see if it really is doing what it is supposed to do.

 

 

I have already explained this. Did you not read it? it was literally just above you. The build with the fix is not on the PTS yet. Chris should have been more clear. This companion issue is in the next PTS build. Im sure it will be pushed to the PTS Monday. When this current PTS build dropped the issue that was causing all presence to cap had not been identified yet. Remember that. So its obviously in the next build they are getting ready to push.

 

The companion fix that is in this build was an ability fix. AKa they no longer focus CCd targets or miss with AOE all the time. The presence fix would be in the next build. They only recently instituted a fix for it. That was AFTER the build was released. Therefor it would be in the next build.

 

Logic

Edited by Zergnaut
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I'm all for getting these Weak Companions fixed, I'm avoiding Heroics till this fix is implemented on the Live Server.

I will keep an eye out for the next iteration of the PTS and try it next week, the Companions feel better already on the PTS in Heroics so looking foreword to the next iteration of the PTS which has the other Presence bug fix in it.

Edited by VIPER_KFC
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I have already explained this. Did you not read it? it was literally just above you. The build with the fix is not on the PTS yet. Chris should have been more clear. This companion issue is in the next PTS build. Im sure it will be pushed to the PTS Monday. When this current PTS build dropped the issue that was causing all presence to cap had not been identified yet. Remember that. So its obviously in the next build they are getting ready to push.

 

The companion fix that is in this build was an ability fix. AKa they no longer focus CCd targets or miss with AOE all the time. The presence fix would be in the next build. They only recently instituted a fix for it. That was AFTER the build was released. Therefor it would be in the next build.

 

Logic

 

I did read your post. I am trying to sort out exactly what is being effected on live so I can work out a solid strategy for testing it on the PTS when the next iteration is uploaded. Being able to compare live to PTS can be invaluable. Clearly I am not the only one confused by exactly what is part of the base and what is part of the bonus. Thanks to Real_Dark_Lord and DWho I have a clearer idea what to look for. It does not sound like tracking presence will be able to show if the bugs have been fixed, since the character screen number is accurate, but the bugs are in how the stats are applied.

 

How can we, as player-testers, test companions accurately once the fix is loaded onto the pts since it is not a simple matter of double checking the presence score? I would like to contribute more to the testing than saying if I "feel" like they are performing where they should. I have never done any parsing. Is there something like Star Parse that will give me performance numbers for companions or are they just for players?

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I did read your post. I am trying to sort out exactly what is being effected on live so I can work out a solid strategy for testing it on the PTS when the next iteration is uploaded. Being able to compare live to PTS can be invaluable. Clearly I am not the only one confused by exactly what is part of the base and what is part of the bonus. Thanks to Real_Dark_Lord and DWho I have a clearer idea what to look for. It does not sound like tracking presence will be able to show if the bugs have been fixed, since the character screen number is accurate, but the bugs are in how the stats are applied.

 

How can we, as player-testers, test companions accurately once the fix is loaded onto the pts since it is not a simple matter of double checking the presence score? I would like to contribute more to the testing than saying if I "feel" like they are performing where they should. I have never done any parsing. Is there something like Star Parse that will give me performance numbers for companions or are they just for players?

 

Most of the companion parsing I have done, I've done with a Razer Old Republic keyboard. It tracks companion and player damage and healing even by ability. However, I doubt they are easy to obtain any more since mine is from very early on in SWTORs lifetime. In theory you can do it manually from the combat logs (that's primarily what the Razer keyboard uses). Looking at the ability tooltips also can help if you compare them between Live and the PTS. There should be a significant difference based on level in those tooltips. Last time I looked on the PTS it was still a little low for Influence 50 comapnions. For me, working correctly would be a level 50 companion "healing" at the same rate as a level 25 companion on the next planet up (DPS would work the same, I'm not sure how you would evaluate tanking). So a level 50 on Taris should heal like a level 25 on Nar Shadaa. I don't know what Bioware's "requirement" is, but the "next planet" criteria seems to be the right level of companion "power".

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Most of the companion parsing I have done, I've done with a Razer Old Republic keyboard. It tracks companion and player damage and healing even by ability. However, I doubt they are easy to obtain any more since mine is from very early on in SWTORs lifetime. In theory you can do it manually from the combat logs (that's primarily what the Razer keyboard uses). Looking at the ability tooltips also can help if you compare them between Live and the PTS. There should be a significant difference based on level in those tooltips. Last time I looked on the PTS it was still a little low for Influence 50 comapnions. For me, working correctly would be a level 50 companion "healing" at the same rate as a level 25 companion on the next planet up (DPS would work the same, I'm not sure how you would evaluate tanking). So a level 50 on Taris should heal like a level 25 on Nar Shadaa. I don't know what Bioware's "requirement" is, but the "next planet" criteria seems to be the right level of companion "power".

 

Since the only Old Republic keyboard on ebay is listing at 900 dollars, I think I'll try the manual way. ;) Thanks for the input. I think this issue it too important to not test thoroughly!

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