Jump to content

This is why we hate PvP


EllieAnne

Recommended Posts

Everyone does not know this. It is a myth frequently spread around by people with little experience in GSF that have no clue why they're really getting wrecked in every match.

 

Gear isn't irrelevant in GSF, but it is conditionally relevant. Gear matters if and only if you are in combat against one other player who is very close in skill level to your own skill level. In any other circumstance experience/skill or being outnumbered swamps gear differences.

 

A scoreboard line of 10-15 kills, 12-18 assists, 40,000 to 80,000 damage is perfectly reasonable for a stock ship in GSF. If the pilot is highly skilled.

 

Now this doesn't mean you don't have to suffer. You'll still suffer, but it's not because the components aren't upgraded. It's because of things like not having learned the differences in how fast different missiles beep when you're being locked, and therefore not knowing if the missile currently locking you can safely be ignored or if you must LOS it before it fires if you want to survive. By the time people have learned that sort of thing they've played enough matches so that stock ships a distant memory, unless they're starting over in an alt. If they do though, knowing if the beeps of a missile lock are serious danger or not is much more important to have than the component upgrades that they no longer have.

 

blah blah blah

 

someone who likes GSF (good for you) wants to nuance the hell out of the fact that "gear" is ridiculously more relevant in that mode than any other mode of the game.

 

or that jumping into GSF is the equivalent of jumping into ranked before ever stepping foot in regs and then learning to play by continually playing ranked.

 

you like it. cool. really. good for you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Boy. There’s a lot of complaining on this thread. “How am I supposed to learn?” “How am I supposed to know what the best set or tactical is?” Blah. Blah. Blah.

 

The answer is: if you don’t know, ask! That’s what the chat can be used for. Ask someone to help with your class. I’m sure there are people willing to do so. Join a guild. Plenty of people in guilds are helpful. Use Google to find your stuff out on YouTube or something, if you really hate player interactions. Doing something and asking is better than doing nothing and not asking.

 

The point is, if you ask/search for it, you’ll get help. If you don’t, and just sit here complaining on forums about it, you only have yourself to blame for your incompetence and stubbornness to not ask others for help.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So let's see. I decide to venture into ranked pvp solo and this has been my experience in the past four days:

  1. Told to kill myself 6 times
  2. Told Im **** and my mom should have aborted me.
  3. Watched two of my teammates kill themselves at start of match for win trading 11 times.
  4. Told that its players like me that ruin pvp for people because I dont have 'the best gear' (numerous times)
  5. Told I was a special education player because I dont have friends to play with in teams and I should end my 'down syndrome life' by sticking a fork in an electrical socket twice by the same player in the same match.

 

I hate PVP Ranked because of the toxicity of the player base at that level. You will be made to feel like absolute garbage regardless of what you do or try to do. You get tunneled and killed almost at the start of a match? You're **** and told to die. Reporting players like this does not do anything as its always the same batch of players in ranked.

 

At least in unranked theres a variety of players and you wont always run into the same people. Honestly - SWTOR Staff needs to do a better job dealing with this level of harassment, toxicity, and downright cruelty from players. Completely clean out the ranked player base based on the reports submitted and give the same game mode a fresh start.

 

Readjust the gearing to pre-5.0 for progression (earn the gear in unranked, get the better gear through pvp progression) that way everyone is on the same playing field.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So let's see. I decide to venture into ranked pvp solo and this has been my experience in the past four days:

  1. Told to kill myself 6 times
  2. Told Im **** and my mom should have aborted me.
  3. Watched two of my teammates kill themselves at start of match for win trading 11 times.
  4. Told that its players like me that ruin pvp for people because I dont have 'the best gear' (numerous times)
  5. Told I was a special education player because I dont have friends to play with in teams and I should end my 'down syndrome life' by sticking a fork in an electrical socket twice by the same player in the same match.

 

I hate PVP Ranked because of the toxicity of the player base at that level. You will be made to feel like absolute garbage regardless of what you do or try to do. You get tunneled and killed almost at the start of a match? You're **** and told to die. Reporting players like this does not do anything as its always the same batch of players in ranked.

 

At least in unranked theres a variety of players and you wont always run into the same people. Honestly - SWTOR Staff needs to do a better job dealing with this level of harassment, toxicity, and downright cruelty from players. Completely clean out the ranked player base based on the reports submitted and give the same game mode a fresh start.

 

Readjust the gearing to pre-5.0 for progression (earn the gear in unranked, get the better gear through pvp progression) that way everyone is on the same playing field.

 

Right click on each one of those, and report as harassment , then put them on ignore. Look out for the decent players, if you can find them. Sometimes you do get decent people who try to give good advice and tips. If you want to continue playing rank, just put the toxic people on ignore, and play, if you stop, then they've won.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So let's see. I decide to venture into ranked pvp solo and this has been my experience in the past four days:

  1. Told to kill myself 6 times
  2. Told Im **** and my mom should have aborted me.
  3. Watched two of my teammates kill themselves at start of match for win trading 11 times.
  4. Told that its players like me that ruin pvp for people because I dont have 'the best gear' (numerous times)
  5. Told I was a special education player because I dont have friends to play with in teams and I should end my 'down syndrome life' by sticking a fork in an electrical socket twice by the same player in the same match.

 

I hate PVP Ranked because of the toxicity of the player base at that level. You will be made to feel like absolute garbage regardless of what you do or try to do. You get tunneled and killed almost at the start of a match? You're **** and told to die. Reporting players like this does not do anything as its always the same batch of players in ranked.

 

At least in unranked theres a variety of players and you wont always run into the same people. Honestly - SWTOR Staff needs to do a better job dealing with this level of harassment, toxicity, and downright cruelty from players. Completely clean out the ranked player base based on the reports submitted and give the same game mode a fresh start.

 

Readjust the gearing to pre-5.0 for progression (earn the gear in unranked, get the better gear through pvp progression) that way everyone is on the same playing field.

 

So far, I have not (yet) been told the monstrous things that you have endured. The censure I have received has been mild by comparison. I am sorry that your experience is so godawful. What is even more lamentable is that you have not experienced some of the encouragement that is sometimes offered. There are some real gems (no sarcasm) in ranked that should be celebrated for their humanity to their fellow players. No one deserves the execrations and abuse that you endured.

 

There is a certain sniper (I wish I could name these people), a certain sentinel/marauder (or three), a certain sage, and a certain Assassin that are very, VERY cool in games. They don't belittle, they instruct and advise. And these fine people are only the ones that I am thinking of presently. There are more.

 

People are entitled to get upset, but not like the way they are doing to you. That is unconscionable. People who type things like that should be permanently banned - full stop.

 

Take comfort that this is just a game, they're ignoble dingleberries, and you have done nothing wrong.

Edited by Sappharan
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now that BW has forced us back into PvP with Galactic Season I'm sure the data they've been collecting for 6 months now says everyone loves PvP since they made the changes since sooooooo many more players are in warzones. So if you feel forced into PvP because of GS, tell us why you hate PvP. I'd say tell Bioware but if they do read this thread (not likely) then they still won't care.

 

For me it is the imbalance. Maybe not the kind you are thinking but the imbalance in stun-locks, releases, self-heals, shields, etc. I just got out of a PvP where 2 people were able to hold off 7 of us from capturing a pylon. I know there will be the ubergods of PvP that will come in and say "know yer class" or "you all suck" or "you need to try harder" but the bottom line is that when 2 people can hold off 7 for an extended time, something is broken. They were spamming CC. They would break our CC. They would self-heal for over 50% HP. They would spam their shields and reflects. I wouldn't mind losing in PvP if they were just better fighters than I am, but these are not straight up fights. These are toons loading up on PvP proficiencies and tacticals in order to pwn players through mechanics - not fighting. And then you get them grouping up for warzones and you are pretty much dead. How can I have to have fun when I can't even fight since they can spam stuns on me and if we CC them there is no effect and if my team by some miracle gets them down to 20% health - oh they self-healed back to 80% ... repeat as needed.

 

I hate to say this and I know it is going to sound like I am being a jerk but I really am not. If it is 7 vs 2. I am not saying it is you but the majority or those 7 players are the issue. When they were stunned, was anyone spam capping the node? Were you forcing them to use all the CDs and then burn? It really sounds more like a bad group experience than anything else.

 

I am saying this because I have saw this happen before to similar groups until I got over to the node and started telling people to spam cap while I was throwing down the DPS/CC and whatnot. If you force them to blow their CDs and focus, they die, like everyone else. There is no super button that refreshes their CDs after a hard burn.

 

If you are in a spot like that get a couple of peeps to stand on opposite sides of the cap and just spam cap while focusing down the dudes trolling you. Healer first. This really is a L2P issue but not saying it is you but it sounds like it was an issue with your team.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ok i have to be honnest im coming back after a several year break. currently re rolling because i cant remember wth i was remotely doing. So i get my sorc to 18 kit her out with the best gear i can manage (mostly from the mod vendor and a few from the black talon fp) and i decided to get the pvp intro quest done i got when i hit the fleet station. keep in mind im 18 with no clue wth I'm doing, hell im still trying to work out a decent leveling rotation when things require more than a two-three button combo.

 

So i que up get an arena my team all dps 2 sorc, a marauder, and i think an assassin maybe? think they had a staff. other team not sure but it was 3 dps and a tank one of the dps was a scoundrel. follow my team trying to support don't do very well despite being the last one standing both rounds. first round we got 1 down. second none. i could do nothing. it was very disappointing.

 

Second que wound up being hutball. that was when i really noticed the problem from the levels of my team i was one of the lowest members there i think there was one other in the teens the rest were 30+ and we got scaled up to 75. and that's the issue. go ahead scale me up to 75 but im only 18. higher level characters have more options, better builds, more abilities. i can't really compete with that. The really frustrating bit. that pvp intro quest that started this? yeah it requires a win. which feels impossible until im max level and geared.

 

Any way apologies for the long winded complaining just kinda needed to get that out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ok i have to be honnest im coming back after a several year break. currently re rolling because i cant remember wth i was remotely doing. So i get my sorc to 18 kit her out with the best gear i can manage (mostly from the mod vendor and a few from the black talon fp) and i decided to get the pvp intro quest done i got when i hit the fleet station. keep in mind im 18 with no clue wth I'm doing, hell im still trying to work out a decent leveling rotation when things require more than a two-three button combo.

 

So i que up get an arena my team all dps 2 sorc, a marauder, and i think an assassin maybe? think they had a staff. other team not sure but it was 3 dps and a tank one of the dps was a scoundrel. follow my team trying to support don't do very well despite being the last one standing both rounds. first round we got 1 down. second none. i could do nothing. it was very disappointing.

 

Second que wound up being hutball. that was when i really noticed the problem from the levels of my team i was one of the lowest members there i think there was one other in the teens the rest were 30+ and we got scaled up to 75. and that's the issue. go ahead scale me up to 75 but im only 18. higher level characters have more options, better builds, more abilities. i can't really compete with that. The really frustrating bit. that pvp intro quest that started this? yeah it requires a win. which feels impossible until im max level and geared.

 

Any way apologies for the long winded complaining just kinda needed to get that out.

 

scaling you up to 75 doesn't mean you're playing against other 75s. that's just bolster. if you are 18, then you are playing in the low bracket, which I think cuts off around 43. The relationship of your available skills is comparable to higher levels up to ~43. you were not playing against actual 70s players.

 

there was a time period of a month or two when BW did actually throw low players into matches against players in the 70s, and there was much uproar. BW is truly bad at this balance and organization/matchmaking thing. but the big issue here is that you don't quite understand bolster and seem to be confusing it with actually leveling you up.

 

fyi: it would be nice to level everyone up with full abilities like GW2, but since new/returning leveling players (e.g., you) don't know how to use all of their abilities yet, there's an argument to be made in letting them be acquired more naturally.

 

TL; DR: you weren't playing against full-on lvl 75 players. your defenses and dmg abilities were just jacked up to 75 so that they would be competitive with higher level players (up to ~43 when you're as low as 10).

 

there aren't enough players in the game to bracket 10-19, 20-29, 30-39, etc. anymore.

Edited by CheesyEZ
Link to comment
Share on other sites

yeah i figured player numbers wouldn't' support that much of a bracket. I will also admit i was un aware of it only going up to 43ish. Also unsure on how much ability discrepancy there is between 10 and a 43 or even an 18 and 35 for that matter. Was just a bit of a nasty shock to get a lvl 10 beginner quest for pvp and then get thrown to the wolves, and in order to complete the quest you need to win? Kinda wish it was just play 3 matches get your reward. as it stands im utterly demoralized for pvp and have no plans to even touch it again till im leveled and geared.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

yeah i figured player numbers wouldn't' support that much of a bracket. I will also admit i was un aware of it only going up to 43ish. Also unsure on how much ability discrepancy there is between 10 and a 43 or even an 18 and 35 for that matter. Was just a bit of a nasty shock to get a lvl 10 beginner quest for pvp and then get thrown to the wolves, and in order to complete the quest you need to win? Kinda wish it was just play 3 matches get your reward. as it stands im utterly demoralized for pvp and have no plans to even touch it again till im leveled and geared.

 

the quest made more sense when the brackets were only 10 levels each. that's true. there is a very significant disparity between a 10 and a 42 in terms of tool kit. they should not be in the same match together regardless of bolster. but it's not really that bad either. don't pvp until you're 20+. make sure you have a stun or mezz and a dcd. also make sure you've chosen your spec and picked up all of the abilities. a lot of players forget that....

 

the really horrible thing is that apparently bolster doesn't work right if you don't have anything in a slot, and relics, implants, and ear pieces are not common levels 10-29, and the pvp intro quest rewards those slot pieces to you. so that is a major procedural issue. then again, nothing about lowbies is really "major." and you can jump 5 levels just by turning in a couple quests. I recommend not pvping until 20+.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

scaling you up to 75 doesn't mean you're playing against other 75s. that's just bolster. if you are 18, then you are playing in the low bracket, which I think cuts off around 43. The relationship of your available skills is comparable to higher levels up to ~43. you were not playing against actual 70s players.

 

there was a time period of a month or two when BW did actually throw low players into matches against players in the 70s, and there was much uproar. BW is truly bad at this balance and organization/matchmaking thing. but the big issue here is that you don't quite understand bolster and seem to be confusing it with actually leveling you up.

 

fyi: it would be nice to level everyone up with full abilities like GW2, but since new/returning leveling players (e.g., you) don't know how to use all of their abilities yet, there's an argument to be made in letting them be acquired more naturally.

 

TL; DR: you weren't playing against full-on lvl 75 players. your defenses and dmg abilities were just jacked up to 75 so that they would be competitive with higher level players (up to ~43 when you're as low as 10).

 

there aren't enough players in the game to bracket 10-19, 20-29, 30-39, etc. anymore.

 

Yeah, I agree with the GW2 comparison. That would be the better way to do it because then everyone would have access to the same abilities, utilities and gear.

 

 

I recently investigate the FFXIV pvp system to see if it is something I might be interested in playing. What I discovered is their class abilities change on the task bar to a pvp only setup.

It also looks like they lose a bunch of abilities they have for pve. Essentially the game has a seperate pve and pvp system and that way they can balance classes properly for pvp without it affecting pve balance.

 

And just like GW2, you can go to a seperate instance area before going into pvp that automatically changes your setup to pvp so you can look at the different abilities, etc. That way people aren’t dropped straight into pvp with no idea what the abilities are. They also have pvp training dummies in GW2 and FFXIV

 

This could be done in swtor as well and that would give people at lower lvls the opportunity to look at and test out abilities before going into pvp.

Then BioWare could get rid of lowbie and mid lvl pvp brackets. Then we could possibly have a reg pvp bracket for casuals and people to learn and a ranked objective bracket.

Edited by TrixxieTriss
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, I agree with the GW2 comparison. That would be the better way to do it because then everyone would have access to the same abilities, utilities and gear.

 

 

 

Then BioWare could get rid of lowbie and mid lvl pvp brackets. Then we could possibly have a reg pvp bracket for casuals and people to learn and a ranked objective bracket.

 

i'm not arguing against it. I like the idea. but BW has always (against all reason) advocated for a gear grind for pvp. and now that everyone shares the same gear, pvp is locked into always having a gear grind.

 

Cease has already pointed out that the current gear grind is backwards. it's easy to get level 306 but hard to get set bonus and tactical. however, set bonus and tactical are by far the most decisive issues regarding gear balance (you could add augs and amps to that as well, which are outrageous money sinks if you don't play the GTN).

 

it would be cool in 7.0 if you could create a GW2-style loudout that only activates in pvp, and you could only adjust that loadout in a station on fleet (sell decos for it as well) just like the bolsterizer...for players to re-allocate their stats and play around with the "pvp loadout" for each class/spec.

 

but ultimately, gear, abilities, and set bonuses are inextricably tied together, plus BW's mind-numbing insistence that pvp should have a gear grind - it makes this pvp-only loadout thing a pipe dream.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd just remove all rewards that matter from PVP.

 

No crafting mats in rewards, no massive tech frag rewards.

 

Your only incentive for PvP is to play PvP, the rewards should be minor and the only stat that matters is elo. That's why people play multiplayer shooters. You either are into it or you're not. Stop forcing people into the queue through seasons or conquest, I'm tired of getting queued with people who are terrible at it, and also don't care.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd just remove all rewards that matter from PVP.

 

No crafting mats in rewards, no massive tech frag rewards.

 

Your only incentive for PvP is to play PvP, the rewards should be minor and the only stat that matters is elo. That's why people play multiplayer shooters. You either are into it or you're not. Stop forcing people into the queue through seasons or conquest, I'm tired of getting queued with people who are terrible at it, and also don't care.

 

LoL, that would kill off the majority of the queue. All matches would end up being 4v4 with a small core group of people playing at only certain times of the day. You might get an hour or two of 8v8 during primetime, but this would also reduce as people get sick of playing the same 30 people.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

LoL, that would kill off the majority of the queue. All matches would end up being 4v4 with a small core group of people playing at only certain times of the day. You might get an hour or two of 8v8 during primetime, but this would also reduce as people get sick of playing the same 30 people.

 

But we are playing the same people everyday. I keep queuing with/against the same sin in solos every week. There are even more than just that one, but it got to the point where I was like "ay there he is again".

 

if the majority of the queue in unranked are people who still basic attack whats the point? I feel nothing blowing up a team/getting blown up on a team that's just in it for the seasons/conquest. If the PVP is so bad that it's just for the heavy mat/fragments gain, why bother? It's not fun.

 

I don't think the PVP is that bad that people would not be interested in still playing it. Why not introduce an exclusive PvP reward bracket based on elo placement instead of lumping it in with PvE/Conquest/Seasons content? The rewards should be cosmetic/not anything marketable, thats the exact reason why people win-trade. To profit off the rewards.

Edited by Karimloo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think the PVP is that bad that people would not be interested in still playing it.

 

Reg Pvp is indeed that bad because of poor balance, poor match making, deserter lock outs, win only completing dailies, players who only death match instead of trying to win, people who afk, people who don’t try, people who cheat, broken game engine performance, terrible Desync and bugs to name a few of the problems that have driven players away from pvp.

 

If you don’t have a lure to encourage non pvpers or casuals to pvp or try pvp, you will never replace the people BioWare seem intent to actively drive away from the game.

 

Under normal circumstances in a healthy game: For every 100 people who try pvp, you might get one who decides to stay. For every 10 people who leave the game or stop pvping, you may get 1 replacement. For every 10 replacement players you may get 1 adequate player who improves enough to attempt ranked. For every 10 ranked players who try ranked, 1 will stay.

 

But these aren’t normal circumstances. BioWare refuse to listen to “overall” player feed back. They only listen to the ranked players experiences and act on those. They don’t seem to realise that their neglect (cause that’s what it is) of the whole pvp eco system is what’s driven so many players away. And instead of addressing the problem by making faster and meaningful changes, they double down on dumb systems because they can’t admit they are wrong (ChrisS still argues or tries to justify systems for ranked players on discord and won’t listen to reg players points of view).

 

The pvp part of this game is a hollow shell of what it was during 3.x and 4.x era. It’s continuing degradation is because BioWare refuse to engage properly. Their mismanagement of pvp in this game since 5.x is astounding.

Edited by TrixxieTriss
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 months later...
Now that BW has forced us back into PvP with Galactic Season I'm sure the data they've been collecting for 6 months now says everyone loves PvP since they made the changes since sooooooo many more players are in warzones. So if you feel forced into PvP because of GS, tell us why you hate PvP. I'd say tell Bioware but if they do read this thread (not likely) then they still won't care.

 

For me it is the imbalance. Maybe not the kind you are thinking but the imbalance in stun-locks, releases, self-heals, shields, etc. I just got out of a PvP where 2 people were able to hold off 7 of us from capturing a pylon. I know there will be the ubergods of PvP that will come in and say "know yer class" or "you all suck" or "you need to try harder" but the bottom line is that when 2 people can hold off 7 for an extended time, something is broken. They were spamming CC. They would break our CC. They would self-heal for over 50% HP. They would spam their shields and reflects. I wouldn't mind losing in PvP if they were just better fighters than I am, but these are not straight up fights. These are toons loading up on PvP proficiencies and tacticals in order to pwn players through mechanics - not fighting. And then you get them grouping up for warzones and you are pretty much dead. How can I have to have fun when I can't even fight since they can spam stuns on me and if we CC them there is no effect and if my team by some miracle gets them down to 20% health - oh they self-healed back to 80% ... repeat as needed.

 

Omg Preach

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

This is just my experience but I've been playing a bunch of mmos this past year and it honestly feels like swtor's pvp is the worst I've touched so far. Mostly due to the playerbase. I'm not an expert or even what I'd consider "good" at this game's pvp, but the players here (in unranked, at least) are really, really, bad. Like, way worse than casual/unrated pvp in other games. I don't know if it's because the leveling experience is so easy or because there's no real incentive to do well and win, but the amount of max-level players who don't understand/use even the most basic of gameplay/class mechanics like cc, breaking out of stuns, defensive cds, interupt, etc., is absolutely insane.

 

Same issue with amount of people who completely ignore objectives. Every multiplayer game is going to have new/casual players who don't understand the game-mode or lazy people who ignore it in favor of getting big numbers in team-fights. But swtor is the only one where I see it consistently happen with entire teams and whose players actively seem to hate even pretending to play objectives. To the point where I've literally received rage-whispers for grabbing and scoring the orb in huttball instead of helping in some random team fight on the other side of the map.

 

I get that the game and especially unranked pvp is meant to appeal to a mostly casual playerbase, and that everyone needs to start somewhere, but it feels like this issue isn't really because of new players not knowing how to do well, and instead just the average player not trying to do well/not wanting to. But again, that's just my experience. And you could definitely argue that my previous experience with pvp in other games makes me a bit biased here. But yeah, my time here hasn't exactly been pleasant. I haven't had a chance to start queueing ranked yet though, so hopefully it's better.

Edited by amazingpie
Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...