Manaan is iconic.

Sure, Star Wars has never had a shortage of “single-biome-planets.” Tatooine is sandy, Hoth is snowy, Endor is wooded, Mustafar is uncomfortably warm. Manaan could have easily been dismissed as “As just another water planet.” But this would be unfair. Manaan, first introduced in Knights of the Old Republic almost 20 years ago, is an iconic part of the Star Wars timeline. The Selkath people, their neutrality, and the Kolto trade have been involved in countless stories in both the Legends and Canon continuities.

That being said: I do not feel that Manaan’s portrayal of 7.0 was befitting such a famous world. And I would like to use this thread to express some constructive criticism of the planet’s new explorable Invasion Zone. Following the critique portion of this thread, I am also going to pitch a few ideas that I believe could greatly benefit player experience on the world.

And before I go further, I want to say: I truly do not like complaining on the forums. Ranting and bickering does not solve problems. That is why I want to preface this thread by stating that I view what I am about to post as constructive. It is not meant to be trolling or flaming.

I separate this post into two parts: first, the Criticism Part. That is where I posit where I believe 7.0 Manaan was lackluster. The second is the Constructive Part, where I humbly pitch a few ideas that I believe could make the planet an excellent part of the SWTOR adventure.

Let’s begin.

The Criticism Part

Part One: Manaan did not fit into the current overarching primary story.

When we first visited Manaan in Knights of the Old Republic, there was a clear motivation for going to the planet: to find a Star Map. It was not immediately clear what precisely that Star Map led to, just that it was something called the "Star Forge," but it was a solid, clear, objective. Manaan was not the only place we were going to find Star Maps: we also explored Dantooine, Tatooine, Korriban, and Kashyyyk. Manaan was just one piece of the puzzle. And despite each planet had the same objective, each planet was a truly unique experience. Manaan was no exception to that- the political dynamics of Selkath neutrality, combined with the pressures of a galactic war and the value of kolto, shaped an interesting story- while still fitting into the overall story of searching for the Star Forge.

But in Legacy of the Sith, Manaan does not connect to the overarching primary story at all.

When 7.0 was announced last summer, I recall being extremely curious how exactly a mission to Manaan was going to connect to Darth Malgus' search for ancient Jedi and Sith lore. But, unfortunately, there was no connection at all. The Manaan and Elom stories have no bridge- once the story is over on Manaan, you are simply carried over to Elom for a separate flashpoint with separate characters. It raises the question: Why is Manaan the new planet for the Legacy of the Sith expansion if it has nothing to do with Sith?

The smallest connection does exist: Arn was searching for a Jedi Master as part of his assignment in Task Force Nova- but this Jedi was already dead before Arn visited the world. Nothing changed for the larger story by the mission to Manaan.

But maybe the fact that Manaan had no "Star Map" this time is not necessarily a bad thing. In KOTOR, Manaan was unique enough to form an interesting story on its own. It need not be directly tied to Legacy of the Sith too closely for it to be a good story on its own. But this brings me to my next point...

Point Two: Manaan’s Secondary Story was Uncharacteristically Lackluster

It is stunning how little of Manaan's story potential was explored.

We already have known much about Manaan in the KOTOR and SWTOR periods:

• It's a neutral world,
  
• It contains an extremely valuable resource,
  
• The Selkath will defend their neutrality,
  
• The planet is wet,
  
• Both factions will go to extreme ends to get Kolto
  

The problem with how Manaan was included in 7.0 is that never, at any point, does the story raise above these five basic bullet points. No new secrets about Manaan are revealed. The new characters do not tell a compelling story of resource politics and intrigue. Back in KOTOR, Manaan's neutrality introduced a story of the good guys doing bad things: the Republic embassy covered-up evidence, organized attacks on Sith diplomatic staff, and engaged in illegal kolto mining. And then there was Forged Alliances' Manaan flashpoint, which introduced how ancient Manaan's Rakata technology was being used by a renegade Selkath scientist to create super-soldiers. But then there was 7.0, which, unfortunately, lacked any narrative that matched these levels of intrigue.

Not all is bad, however. I found myself interested in Colonel Gallo and her militia. However, we never get to know her. Her motivations remain extremely one-dimensional of "Keep Manaan neutral." Surely she has an opinion on other things? Is she sympathetic to the Imperial or Republic causes? Does she think Kolto is a blessing or curse for Manaan? What's her relationship with the Order of Shasa, the "other" defenders of Manaan's neutrality? Where does she think the best place for a swim on Manaan is? How would she feel if a Smuggler [flirt]ed with her?

In other words, there just needed to be a lot more here. I feel that the writers played it too "safe," not introducing anything new about Manaan. It's just the same story: Manaan is neutral, and it needs to stay that way.

Unfortunately, I feel that the entire story covering levels 75 to 80 can be summarized as "The Empire wants Manaan for kolto! We need to stop them! ... And now we have!"

Moreover, I feel that it is likely that the limited use of Manaan narratively to my next and final issue.

Point Three: Manaan did not have enough to explore

In short: Manaan was just too small.

I understand that there was always going to be geographical limitations to Manaan (or perhaps "oceanographic limitations" would be more apt). The vast majority of the planet is underwater. And, unless we are going to start mandating everyone choose the Nautolan race to play story content, this was going to prevent full exploration of the world.

But, frankly, I do not feel that those limitations justify just how small the Manaan Invasion Zone turned out to be.

The entire new region is too platforms, roughly the size of the previously-existing two platforms in the Manaan Trading Zone, with a handful of things to fight. Things we have grown accustomed to seeing in new planets were totally missing. Where were the reputation vendors? The world bosses? The datacrons? The Invasion Zone, ironically given the name, did not even have an area where players of opposite factions can meet and fight.

However, props where it is due: the story mission that took us to the ocean floor was beautifully designed. Controlling a droid that extracted and applied kolto to adorable sea creatures was exactly what I wanted from Manaan in 7.0: it was nostalgic for a KOTOR fan like myself, but also introduced something new. Before, we killed Firaxan Sharks. Now we heal the ocean-life of Manaan. I would like to see a lot more of the Manaan ocean floor. I have a few ideas of how this could be done logically, which I have written below.

The Constructive Part

So, let's recap: Manaan is too disconnected from the main story, lacks a compelling secondary story, and has extremely little to explore. These are serious problems, but not fatal ones. I think these issues can be overcome with a commitment to improving and expanding everyone's favorite watery medicine-exporting world. Below, I have a few ideas. My goal in sharing them is to inspire plans to reinvent the underwhelming underwater world. Several of them are simple, some are ambitious. I did not organize them in order of "most likely or least likely to be developed," as I lack the knowledge of how game content is created. Nevertheless, I thought it wise to communicate what I believe could make the game community come to love Manaan.

So, here are the ideas:

Idea one: a bonus story, set after Elom.

If the Manaan story was underwhelming in 7.0, maybe it's time to try it again. We haven't actually seen a bonus story since the vanilla game's launch, so I would argue that we are past-due to see a new one. The fact this year is the 10-year-anniversary celebration for SWTOR makes this a great time for a new bonus story. So, why not consider throwing in an instanced Selkath that could give our Commander some new objectives to liberate (or conquer) Manaan?

And there is, simply put, so much more story that could be told. How is Colonel Gallo's resistance going? Gallo has shown to be suspicious of Republic motivations on Manaan- it could be really interesting if her militia turns their weapons on Republic soldiers. Maybe that Ion Cannon could be repurposed by the Selkath to send away the Republic fleet. Or maybe we could see Gallo have a change of heart and learn to support the Republic? How would her Selkath peers respond to this?

Or, maybe we should see how the Empire plans to keep their occupation of Manaan? Surely, the xenophobic Empire will have issues pacifying an alien people that can travel the other 99% of the world that the Sith cannot?

I imagine the issue that would make a bonus story unlikely is voice acting. Nevertheless, I feel there is still a lot more Manaan story to be told.

Idea two: Give us somewhere to explore!

There's a Force power called "Breath Control," and I would hope that the helmets worn by Troopers and Bounty Hunters can be air-sealed. This being said: let us explore the Manaan ocean floor! There is limitless potential among the reefs and sea-life of Manaan. How exciting would it be to explore an underwater cavern to discover one of the Infinite Empire's Datacrons? Or maybe we can experience fighting a Firaxan Shark in a Heroic mission that takes us to the depths? Really, the possibilities here are endless.

And if we cannot go to the ocean floor (Sorry Nautolans), there is surely room for another oxygen-rich hub to explore on. Whatever happened to Ahto City after the Imperial bombardment? What if some ruins didn't seek to the ocean depths, and now the Republic and Empire are trying to secure a foothold in the ruins on the planet's surface? Or maybe the city has totally sunk, and we could explore the various tubes and corridors that still support oxygen- while looking out the windows to the depths of the ocean.

Whatever means is introduced for exploration of Manaan, I do truly feel it would be best if players of opposite factions could interact (and do battle). There is a war on, after all.

Idea three: An instanced "Lair" Ops boss

Manaan could greatly use a Lair for the PvE community to test their skills against.

Lairs have historically been great means for returning to old planets. Golden Fury keeps people visiting Makeb constantly, as does the Colossal Monolith keep Ziost active. Given that the core gearing system is now once more heavily requiring currency to upgrade armor, a Lair boss could become a great place to quickly earn gear currency toward the weekly cap (thematically, the Aquatic Resource Matrix would be a fitting drop). Plus, Ops bosses are lots of fun. I personally enjoy tanking.

There is really no shortage of ideas of what could serve as a Lair boss for Manaan. There's always another Giant Droid that is tough enough that it takes 8 Jedi to bring down. But there's also room for a more narratively-driven Lair boss: whatever happened to the Order of Shasa? Maybe one extremist member of the Order (We'll call him Anysao the Mystic of Storms) and his followers have been harassing both Republic and Imperial supply lines on Manaan. He needs to be taken down, but he will pack a punch! You and your team need to take him down before he causes too much damage to the liberation/conquest effort.

And now your Ops team will have to fight in a downpour, among gale-force winds, surrounded by crackling thunder, as the Mystic of Storms shoots barrages of lightning at you! Imagine the adventure!

Or maybe the Lair could just be a Firaxan Shark, underwater. That would pretty cool too, actually.

Idea four: a Warzone.

Been some time since the PvP community has had a new place to fight. One of Manaan's surface platforms could be a really unique environment. I could imagine a Warzone Arena being very well-suited to Manaan. Perhaps the Selkath have decided to lease an acre of water to Giradda the Hutt to promote tourism to their planet? Given the endless depths of the ocean, I could see this being an environment where knockbacks would be extremely potent. Imagine what fun it would be to Force Push the Rotworms team into the ocean depths.

Alternatively, I could imagine a traditional 8-player Warzone also suited to Manaan. What if there was a map for a new game mode, similar to Huttball? Instead of an explosive ball, however, your team needs to secure a Rakata Datacron that has been brought to the surface from the ocean floor? You grab it from the mid-field and carry it to your team's evacuation shuttle? First to get 6 Datacrons, wins the battle!

Speaking of evacuation shuttles, this brings me to my personal favorite idea here...

Idea five: A Galactic Starfighter Skirmish Map

It has been five years since the last Skirmish map has been added for the Galactic Starfighter community. GSF has been very popular in the last year, in thanks to Galactic Seasons. It feels like now is a great time to add a long-awaited new map, and Manaan would be a great place for it.

But instead of being a starfighter, maybe this time you could pilot a seafighter?

Our starship hulls are space-proof, so they're probably water-proof too, right? What if we flew our ships above and under the ocean? Imagine the tactical advantage of being stalked by a Gunship, so you duck underneath the water to break your enemy's line-of-sight. The GSF Dominion game mode could be shaken up by offering a "vertical" version of the mode. Instead of satellites A, B, and C being on the far left, middle, and right side of the map, instead you would have satellites above and below the water!

Even if the underwater portion of the Skirmish map was not included, it still could be a stellar experience to fly over the shimmering blue ocean.

Idea six: the daily area, with a reputation system.

Last but not least, Manaan deserves a daily area. It is to my knowledge that this is already under development, but I thought it a good idea to include it on this list anyway. I would only stress that I believe it extremely important that the daily area be created, and not end up on a perpetual backburner or "Wall of Crazy." I, simply put, think it too vital to unlocking the potential held by Manaan.

In conclusion:

I want to stress that I did not write this (very, very long) post to vent. I really do believe that there is potential for a great Manaan, one that lives up to the moniker of "expansion." But I felt it necessary to first express that a lot of work needs to be done. 7.0's Manaan was, honestly, just not enough. I fear the world will soon drift into irrelevance.

But I do believe that, with work, players of SWTOR can have a splash on Manaan, and the world can once more become an iconic part of SWTOR!

I thank you for your consideration of this post.

A well written post, thanks for that.

I'd assume we get to see more of Manaan, and hopefully a bit of story as well, when we get the daily area in 7.1.

As it currently stands, Manaan is definitely underwhelming but that also applies to various other planets, such as Onderon and Dantooine.

One thing struck me earlyish in your post, where you talk about the lack of link between the Manaan part of LotS and the Ruins of Nul part. The thing is, there are multiple storylines open in the post-JUS SWTOR:

* Task Force Nova / Empire's Hand.

* Mandalorian meanderings.(1)

* Chasing Darth Malgus.(2)

* Finishing off TVV.(2)(3)

* The larger Imp-Pub war.

Manaan was really part of the larger Imp-Pub war, while Ruins of Nul was part of Chasing Darth Malgus.

(1) I'm not a big fan of Mandalorians, sorry.

(2) Cant't dead people farbling stay farbling dead for farbling once?

(3) Thankfully, this seems to be closed, apart from the interminable hope-springs-eternal speculation about maybe being able to romance a resurrected(2) version of someone who makes Dark Side Jaesa Wilsaam look like a paragon of calm and serene benevolent stability.

Well we're going to get a daily area, so I'm guessing we'll see more of it...

Otherwise, they had to give us some Empire vs Republic content, so I guess Manaan it is. I personally appreciate seeing different content for both factions again...

A well written post, thanks for that.

 

I'd assume we get to see more of Manaan, and hopefully a bit of story as well, when we get the daily area in 7.1.

As it currently stands, Manaan is definitely underwhelming but that also applies to various other planets, such as Onderon and Dantooine.

Personally, I don't feel that Onderon and Dantooine are quite as underwhelming as Manaan is. Onderon seems to have all the makings of a solid end-game planet (albeit a small one): Datacrons to discover, achievements to earn, an Operation, the swoop bike event, areas to engage in PvP, a beautiful environment, lots of lore on individuals and organizations, and daily missions.

Manaan does not have any of that, sadly. Except for, subjectively, the environment. I was not particularly fond of it (it really was just a few platforms) but I respect that the rainy environment may be another's cup of tea.

And Dantooine has a really cool event when Pirate Incursion comes about.

Personally, I don't feel that Onderon and Dantooine are quite as underwhelming as Manaan is. Onderon seems to have all the makings of a solid end-game planet (albeit a small one): Datacrons to discover, achievements to earn, an Operation, the swoop bike event, areas to engage in PvP, a beautiful environment, lots of lore on individuals and organizations, and daily missions.

 

Manaan does not have any of that, sadly. Except for, subjectively, the environment. I was not particularly fond of it (it really was just a few platforms) but I respect that the rainy environment may be another's cup of tea.

 

And Dantooine has a really cool event when Pirate Incursion comes about.

Exactly.

But Manaan was supposed to have a daily area so oh well.

Arn did mention a mysterious Jedi and finding his (?) grave. Would be nice to make it into part of the open world and have a small achievement tied to it. Maybe a lore that is related to KOTOR.

Arn did mention a mysterious Jedi and finding his (?) grave.

Just want to mention really quickly here: Where exactly did Arn find a grave on an ocean planet?

Just want to mention really quickly here: Where exactly did Arn find a grave on an ocean planet?

Maybe in the courtyard of the court

I was quite surprised that the Selkath will let an outsider to have a grave on their planet since they are pretty reclusive to the point of xenophobic. Made me wonder what the Jedi did to be allowed to have a place there.

Just want to mention really quickly here: Where exactly did Arn find a grave on an ocean planet?

Given that the Selkath themselves are clearly well-adapted to a non-aquatic environment, there's clearly some permanent land *somewhere*, otherwise that adaptation wouldn't have happened.

Given that the Selkath themselves are clearly well-adapted to a non-aquatic environment, there's clearly some permanent land *somewhere*, otherwise that adaptation wouldn't have happened.

We’ve never heard of any solid land, but logically that does make sense.

It’s been almost six months since the expansion’s initial release date, and it seems that Manaan’s daily area still is not even available for public testing yet. This is hugely disappointing.

Actually it's been just under 4 months. It wasn't released in December it was delayed until Feb 15th 2022.

Actually it's been just under 4 months. It wasn't released in December it was delayed until Feb 15th 2022.

Initial is the key word from his post. and it is hilarious. enjoy the 10 year anniversary and the swan song of the game. its sad seeing the devs go to some upcoming events but really for other games and not swtor lol

Actually it's been just under 4 months. It wasn't released in December it was delayed until Feb 15th 2022.

4 months is way to long it's really bad and shows how much of a bad state the studio is in I want them to just close the game down it's a waste of time and money.

4 months is way to long it's really bad and shows how much of a bad state the studio is in I want them to just close the game down it's a waste of time and money.

That’s not the right idea. No game at all is far worse than incomplete content.

This thread is for constructive criticism, not demanding SWTOR be shut down.

Initial is the key word from his post. and it is hilarious. enjoy the 10 year anniversary and the swan song of the game. its sad seeing the devs go to some upcoming events but really for other games and not swtor lol

You know, I don't agree with some of the things OP said, but people calling for the game to be shut down is something I'll never understand. If you're not happy or enjoying the game anymore, just leave. People calling for developers to be fired or hoping the game dies just because it's going a way you don't like need serious help.