My ds imperial agent has received a message from shan so it appears that the choice of not choosing between the two was a mistake. My ds Imperial agent is fanatically devoted to the empire and sith so i'll probably end up restarting her.

Oh well, never mind, I get to see Darth Jadus again.

Backing out of dialogue in the chapters is a giant pain in the neck. It looks like I'll have to pick a character as a test subject and choose all dialogue options and record the responses. I'd prefer not to make that type of mistake with the characters that I do run through the chapters with.

I think that the worst, worst thing in this chapter was when I tried to kill Bastila, and she stopped time and disappeared...

 

If you wanted to kill Bastila, you're about 300 years too late. As for the Satele and Marr thing, it was unexpected but not entirely bad. Just infuriatingly cryptic, continuing the old Jedi habit of throwing some hints, then disappearing somewhere. The bigger problem with the expansion storyline so far has been the feeling of being on rails, only getting to pick a response here and there but not actually affecting much at all other than how much some characters like you or not. In most situations the end result is either the same or irrelevant.

 

As for the elephant in the room, it's been stated in other places that weapons and other items can be imbued with the Force, even if the user isn't Force Sensitive. The Rakata and more recently Zakuul have made extensive use of Force powered equipment, though at least in the Rakata case said equipment became useless when they lost their Force abilities. The various characters make it sound like Valkorion may have slightly opened up the non-Force class characters, but when he's not assuming direct control with his hacks, it can be assumed that your character will only be able to take a very small peek behind the veil, just enough to make some things like the visions work and to make the attuned weapon work.

Edited April 18, 2016 by Elyseon

One size fits all, eh? Love it or hate it, but you can not hit it with a chair

 

As for the Force stuff – well, we do know that is this game it is possible to “make” someone Force Sensitive. The Gormak King Jokul in Voss planetary storyline was “cursed” by Sel-Makor (?) and had Mystic visions. I guess Valky is doing something similar to player characters.

One size fits all, eh? Love it or hate it, but you can not hit it with a chair

 

As for the Force stuff – well, we do know that is this game it is possible to “make” someone Force Sensitive. The Gormak King Jokul in Voss planetary storyline was “cursed” by Sel-Makor (?) and had Mystic visions. I guess Valky is doing something similar to player characters.

I would have said that the "transformation" of Jokul (?sp) wasn't some sort of infusion with the Force, but to explain I shall need to break out spoilers...

 

 

I would have said that the "transformation" of Jokul (?sp) wasn't some sort of infusion with the Force, but to explain I shall need to break out spoilers...

 

In the main planetary quest line on the Pub side we learn that the Voss and the Gormak are merely different aspects (or something) of the same people. That both groups are, in fact, Voss. (Vormaks? Goss?) If that is the case, and given that the visually-Voss Vormaks can be Force-sensitive (but aren't necessarily so), it makes sense to me that the visually-Gormak Vormaks can be Force-sensitive also.

 

Same for Imp side.

 

 

I just do hope we will not get the all the talent, training, skills and hard work of a Troopers/Hunters and Smugglers/Agents being hand-waved as "having a “luck” of a very week Force Sensitive". Maybe gasping at the straws here, idk. And Valky empowering Outlander is not the best alternative.

If you wanted to kill Bastila, you're about 300 years too late. As for the Satele and Marr thing, it was unexpected but not entirely bad.

 

Satele sorry, I ALWAYS mix their names.

Satele sorry, I ALWAYS mix their names.

 

That has happened to me a couple times. I think its because they are played by the same actress.

I just do hope we will not get the all the talent, training, skills and hard work of a Troopers/Hunters and Smugglers/Agents being hand-waved as "having a “luck” of a very week Force Sensitive". Maybe gasping at the straws here, idk. And Valky empowering Outlander is not the best alternative.

Well, I remember V telling both my trooper and my smuggler that they were not Force sensitive. To be sure, he might have been wanting to conceal the truth about the character, but if we assume that it wasn't a lie - and Satele Shan and Darth Marr might have been willing to comment if V was telling us the truth - then there is something else going on, and I can't really see what it would be. It doesn't make much sense for it to be V's power that we use, because I see us having some sort of more definitive showdown with V later, and it would be a short and very one-sided fight, no matter which class we have, if it is V's power that we are supposed to borrow.

 

So my vote is for "the question remains unanswered at the moment."

I just do hope we will not get the all the talent, training, skills and hard work of a Troopers/Hunters and Smugglers/Agents being hand-waved as "having a “luck” of a very week Force Sensitive". Maybe gasping at the straws here, idk. And Valky empowering Outlander is not the best alternative.

 

I hope too they don't do this. Maybe they can...hmm I don't know if ''divert'' is the right word here...give us 2 slightly different paths - 1 for force users and 1 for non force users. Maybe if we need to fight someone powerful like Arcann we could send Lana or Senya (if she likes us enough) in our place if not force user, instead go do something else/set up a trap. I have no doubt that our agents/ smugglers/ troopers or BHs are capable of feats that our force users can't do with the same expertise....

There was in legends something interesting by using a certain drug a person managed to enhance her force sensitivity actually becoming one not a very strong one or average or below average it was marginal but it was possible.

Of course there are other things like getting infused with the force and becoming force sensitives like the reborn there different levels of force sensitivity.

Perhaps the weapon may work against valk as well.

 

None of the few in game explanations work for me though for them depending on this non force sensitive. She feels very out of place in that regard.

 

I was going to restart this character but I've decided to make her my test subject. We'll see how well the alliance does with a complete loon in charge.

 

I have to say though I'm not too happy with the weapon being the main point of this chapter. My inquisitor/consular have a lightsaber but it's not used in combat. I would have preferred an option to have a focus built for them instead.

Edited April 20, 2016 by lhawke

The weapons have special abilities when dealing with Arcann and perhaps Vaylin, the light sabers are connected to the Owner who built it with influence from Marr and Satele, the guns also have this ability with influence from Marr and Satele. whatever these special abilities are, will find out soon enough and how they are connected to chapter 12, for all we know the guns have the ability to bypass right through Arcann's light part of the light saber and hit him directly and the ability to damage him directly by other means. the lightsaber has a lightsaber overload ability or something that temporarily disables arcann and his lightsaber in a fight and when it is needed the most the lightsaber has the ability to augment the user with force energies as a form of power to keep them in the fight and weaken arcann the longer the fight goes on. who knows for sure.

 

whatever the case, without knowing what the powers are and how they effect Arcann, for the moment it doesnt make much sense just yet.

Just because a character isn't force sensitive doesn't mean they aren't tied into it strongly enough that it won't have any effect. Best example is from the films and books. Han Solo is not force sensitive but it was theorized by a number of people including a few of his children that he was so tied into it that the force would change things just enough so that he seemed incredibly lucky.

 

I think this is what Marr was getting at when characters were in the trials in chapter 12. The force has a will and it acts through everyone including the player. In this regard the player may be such a strong conduit for the will of the force that they become connected to it similar to how jedi and sith are but they lack the training and skill to manipulate the current.

 

Also in regards to why a SI wouldn't be able to take the ghost of Marr. From what I remember of that section of the story the Inquisitor could only take the ghost if that ghost was either willing or the inquisitor could surpass the will of that particular ghost. Marr may have backed down from some fights but only ones that had no impact on the empire. His force ghost is sustained by his desire to protect the Empire which from what I've seen is a wall of will that not even a full dark side SI's desire for power can surmount. That means the only way they could take Marr is if he came willingly; so a snowballs chance on Mustaffar

This is really starting to get on my nerves. I've played the chapter 4 times. JK, SI, Trooper and IA. For the force users, this chapter makes clear sense. Plus the addition of a new lightsaber tuned to deal with Arcann is a nice deal.

 

But for non force users, this is just a long line of "This story was really written for force users, but we're slamming the round peg into a square hole for the non force users."

 

This has gotten beyond silly now. Being able to see Marr? The lame "you've been touched by Valkorian, so now you can glimpse the force". Just really shows how down hill(least for me anyways) the story has gotten.

 

I've criticized the "all roads lead to 1 approach" and it's really starting to bite the story in the posterior for non force users. At this point I don't know what to say. Granted still want to continue on in the story because it makes a lot of sense with my JK and SI, but I'm about done trying to get my Agent and Trooper through the story.

 

Agree 100%. They should have used the resources to make new class stories and release one chapter a month for each class like they are for new EXP.

Actually it makes perfect sense if you look back to the beginning of KotFE, at the end you were given the option to Kneel and accept his power, or attempt to kill him. Well when whichever killed him that surge of energy that was his force powers, and they landed inside you , even during the one part, where you tell Lana "there was this surge of energy, and I barely remember being thrown into the carbon chamber" Then during the Dream he was there talking to you, and you talking to him. I'm playing through it as my smuggler now, and I'm finding it interesting, course I haven't gotten the new weapon, but I have played through it with Warrior, SI, Agent, Trooper, BH, so I have found it interesting even as a non force user. Even Satele tells you, that you now have some force abilities thanks to Valkorions power being apart of you.

I'm not sure what constitutes spoilers given that Chap 12 has been out for almost a month now, but I'll err on the side of caution.

 

Valkorion, like Marr, is no longer of the physical plane. He exists solely in the force world, yet he is still seemingly powerful enough that he can appear to even non-force users. However, chapter 12 shows

Assuming the former, it opens several possibilities as the final confrontation draws near.

 

How can that affect the story?

 

For force users, it's pretty straightforward. The Outlander's natural force abilities are either unaffected or weakened by Valkorion's presence. I'll use an example from the world of chemistry. Think of powerful force abilities as a strong acid or base depending on light or dark side with the Outlander as the container. Add a large amount of water (Valkorion's neutral ideology that the force is neither light nor dark) and suddenly the power of the acid/base has been diluted. However, if that strong acid or base is mixed with its opposite, you now have the same neutral substance that originally diluted the starting substance. While only speculation on my part, I'm thinking this the idea behind broadening your ideas. (The exact wording escapes me at the moment.)

 

For non-force users, I admit it's a bit of a reach, but here goes. Again, turning to the world of chemistry and again using the same references. Non-force users are like oil in that while you can put oil and water together in one container, you never end up with a solution. The container is affected but neither of the substances ceases to be what it was originally. Again, it's a stretch, but it does allow for some force-related phenomena to occur without the non-force using Outlander becoming force-sensitive.

 

Just my 2 credits.

Can you explain for force users again way more simple if you can?

The way I RP my girls (cause those are my mains out of 34 people), they are all force sensitive in their own ways, even my smuggler, trooper, bh, etc.

 

My SW, SI, Trooper, BH are biological daughters of a Male who would be akin to a Sith War while their mother is an Imperial citizen, akin to an Archeologist/Agent.

 

My SW and SI are completely force sensitive. They have lightning, force choking, all those goodies. My BH and Trooper have just a teeny tiny bit of force sensitivity being the daughters of a Sith and sisters of two SITH force users. My agent has a teeny tiny bit, but she's a Chiss and was adopted by my girls' parents.

 

Then my smuggler, is the daughter of my SW and Quinn. So she inherited a bit of force sensitivity from her mother and grandfather. My jedi consular is the daughter of my BH and Torian, also a smidge from her mother and a lot from her grandfather. My Jedi Knight is the daughter of my agent (who has a teeny tiny bit) and Vector (for my JK it was a roll of the dice because her mother never met her biological parents since she was only two when her human parents adopted her).

 

With everything going on, I can see if even a bit of force sensitivity is awakened. Whether it's alot or just enough to function during chapter 12.

 

Plus, game play wise, I had to have every have SOME force sensitivity whether alot of a little due to my Heroic moments. Otherwise, how else could my Agent, Trooper, BH and Smuggler have the ability to use Force lightning, force choke, the jk's force pound, or toss rocks at enemies.

 

It doesn't make sense for ever single player, but for MY girls, it does. True, some things I have to just Space Magic to make it work in my RPing head and others I just do as one poster said and interweave their lives into the story of SWTOR, from Vanilla, to RotHC, to SoR, to Ziost, to KotFE.

 

There are things the game makes my characters say when I'm not choosing that goes against their personalities. My girls are all light side 5 (unless you **** with their friends/family) and goofy as all hell. Adam Sandler is more serious and normal in comparison. So, I have to do what I can to make anything make sense if it goes against their personalities, likes, etc.

Can you explain for force users again way more simple if you can?[/quote

 

Let's say you're a Jedi. By all accounts, you're extremely powerful with the Force. Maybe the most powerful in all the Core Worlds even. Valkorion has that same power, plus all of the power of the strongest dark side force users. (Kinda like combining the force powers of Satele and Marr and putting all of it in one body.) Therefore, the Outlander's only chance is to broaden his/her reach with the force and become the same, a being with both light and dark side force power. (Only without the world devouring lunacy..... maybe.) Valkorion sees this potential long before anybody else. He hints at it in the throne room back in the very first chapter. (For all we know, it might be the reason he chose the Outlander in the first place.)

 

I also apologize if the chemistry example was confusing.

 

For force users, it's pretty straightforward. The Outlander's natural force abilities are either unaffected or weakened by Valkorion's presence. I'll use an example from the world of chemistry. Think of powerful force abilities as a strong acid or base depending on light or dark side with the Outlander as the container. Add a large amount of water (Valkorion's neutral ideology that the force is neither light nor dark) and suddenly the power of the acid/base has been diluted. However, if that strong acid or base is mixed with its opposite, you now have the same neutral substance that originally diluted the starting substance. While only speculation on my part, I'm thinking this the idea behind broadening your ideas. (The exact wording escapes me at the moment.)

 

 

I like the theory that our Force powers are weakened by Valkorion....especially for JC who was shown to posses quite powerful abilities...tho it is a bit....ehh...lacking for explaining the SI's weakness....but as far as I know it is better than anything the game have given us so far...

...although that brings the question ''why haven't we noticed and commented/thought about it...''...

 

How can that affect the story?

 

For force users, it's pretty straightforward. The Outlander's natural force abilities are either unaffected or weakened by Valkorion's presence. I'll use an example from the world of chemistry. Think of powerful force abilities as a strong acid or base depending on light or dark side with the Outlander as the container. Add a large amount of water (Valkorion's neutral ideology that the force is neither light nor dark) and suddenly the power of the acid/base has been diluted. However, if that strong acid or base is mixed with its opposite, you now have the same neutral substance that originally diluted the starting substance. While only speculation on my part, I'm thinking this the idea behind broadening your ideas. (The exact wording escapes me at the moment.)

 

For non-force users, I admit it's a bit of a reach, but here goes. Again, turning to the world of chemistry and again using the same references. Non-force users are like oil in that while you can put oil and water together in one container, you never end up with a solution. The container is affected but neither of the substances ceases to be what it was originally. Again, it's a stretch, but it does allow for some force-related phenomena to occur without the non-force using Outlander becoming force-sensitive.

 

Just my 2 credits.

 

That is a really good theory. Also it is supported by the legend universe to the sense that dark side force users when exposed to or become suggestive to the light side become weaker for example.

The way I RP my girls (cause those are my mains out of 34 people), they are all force sensitive in their own ways, even my smuggler, trooper, bh, etc.

How do you reconcile that with Valkorion saying in Chapter II that your bh/troopersmuggler/IA is NOT sensitive to the Force at all?

 

(Yes, of course, he could be lying. One can hypothesise a number of reasons that he would do so, not the least of which is that he, in the long run after Arcann/Vaylin are toppled, has a lot to gain if you believe yourself to be incapable of withstanding him in a combat. However, the flaw in that reasoning is that he would also be damaging your chances of winning against Arcann/Vaylin.)

The inquisitor would make sense, if it weren't for the fact that the story ignores that Nox is technically immortal with those ghosts inside him keeping alive. Even as a light-side inquisitor, one ghost refuses to leave you. I have to admit, when I played KOTFE as the inquisitor, it bothered the hell out of me that Valkorian didn't mention the ghosts. it also bothered me that Khem Val wasn't part of your rescue, as the inquisitor's backstory created a symbonic relationship between the Inquisitor and Khem Val.

 

The inquisitor's backstory is too complex to fit in a one-story fits all storyline. if it wasn't for these facts man, I would agree with you.

 

Actually it makes sense if you are light side Inquisitor if you choose to "go against everything what the Sith stands for" and make the ghost find eternal peace.

The way I RP my girls (cause those are my mains out of 34 people), they are all force sensitive in their own ways, even my smuggler, trooper, bh, etc.

 

My SW, SI, Trooper, BH are biological daughters of a Male who would be akin to a Sith War while their mother is an Imperial citizen, akin to an Archeologist/Agent.

 

My SW and SI are completely force sensitive. They have lightning, force choking, all those goodies. My BH and Trooper have just a teeny tiny bit of force sensitivity being the daughters of a Sith and sisters of two SITH force users. My agent has a teeny tiny bit, but she's a Chiss and was adopted by my girls' parents.

 

Then my smuggler, is the daughter of my SW and Quinn. So she inherited a bit of force sensitivity from her mother and grandfather. My jedi consular is the daughter of my BH and Torian, also a smidge from her mother and a lot from her grandfather. My Jedi Knight is the daughter of my agent (who has a teeny tiny bit) and Vector (for my JK it was a roll of the dice because her mother never met her biological parents since she was only two when her human parents adopted her).

 

With everything going on, I can see if even a bit of force sensitivity is awakened. Whether it's alot or just enough to function during chapter 12.

 

Plus, game play wise, I had to have every have SOME force sensitivity whether alot of a little due to my Heroic moments. Otherwise, how else could my Agent, Trooper, BH and Smuggler have the ability to use Force lightning, force choke, the jk's force pound, or toss rocks at enemies.

 

It doesn't make sense for ever single player, but for MY girls, it does. True, some things I have to just Space Magic to make it work in my RPing head and others I just do as one poster said and interweave their lives into the story of SWTOR, from Vanilla, to RotHC, to SoR, to Ziost, to KotFE.

 

There are things the game makes my characters say when I'm not choosing that goes against their personalities. My girls are all light side 5 (unless you **** with their friends/family) and goofy as all hell. Adam Sandler is more serious and normal in comparison. So, I have to do what I can to make anything make sense if it goes against their personalities, likes, etc.

 

So, how does Consular come about, seeing as how everything they do, is referenced in other stories, and what happens in Chapter 1 for the Consular actually takes place before the Hunter meets Torian.

 

Or is it the story is completely ignored, inwhich case, then would the KotET and onward stories even matter?

So, how does Consular come about, seeing as how everything they do, is referenced in other stories, and what happens in Chapter 1 for the Consular actually takes place before the Hunter meets Torian.

 

Or is it the story is completely ignored, inwhich case, then would the KotET and onward stories even matter?

 

Nothing is official. The Class stories allude to all are happening at around the same time, but the player can choose to interpret as he or she wants. I choose to narrate for each planet the Imperial story happens first as they cause trouble then the Republic story happens to fix everything. Paradoxes happen here and there. For example, on Alderaan and Voss the planet story of each version can' t logically both happen. The solution is I don't care. Both happen anyway. For everything that happens after the Class stories each character has their own universe. There are 8 interpretations of Fallen Empire/Eternal Throne, and I'm fine with that.