Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

In favor of ability pruning


dwimorling's Avatar


dwimorling
07.12.2021 , 02:45 PM | #1
I'll start by admitting I'm a newer player (WoW refugee) and felt the need to make a post about this because I've seen a lot of posts here condemning the idea of removing any abilities in 7.0

I'm saying PLEASE take away some buttons. I play a Fury Marauder and Deception Assassin so far, and for Fury especially, the number of just damage abilities seems incredibly bloated. Between 2 saber throws, ravage, obliterate, vicious strike, raging blow etc. Even in casual content, I feel like my eyes are just constantly hunting all over my several bars to see when the next big damage move is glowing with a proc or coming off CD. That's not what makes a class feel unique or well-designed for me. And I don't think combining abilities or reducing bloat takes away from class identity if the utility is preserved (IE. abilities like Force Choke or Mad Dash should definitely stay).

Anyone else feel that some pruning is needed and there's a good middle ground to be attained? I strongly believe that reducing button bloat is not the same thing as "dumbing down" what I've already started to think is a pretty great game.

Athrulas's Avatar


Athrulas
07.12.2021 , 03:18 PM | #2
I think a lot of us agree that there are too many buttons. Most of us are just kind of upset over the choices they're having us make because a lot of them conflict with each other in terms of importance. Like choose between A and B, but both abilities are core Jedi Guardian abilities and you should get both of them.

I don't speak for everyone, but that's my consensus. I want less buttons, but I think they went a little too far.

EHKodiak's Avatar


EHKodiak
07.12.2021 , 04:18 PM | #3
I completely agree, far too many abilities. Their choices of abilities they appear to be pruning (for guardian) is awkward though.

Dyne-'s Avatar


Dyne-
07.12.2021 , 04:52 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by dwimorling View Post
I'll start by admitting I'm a newer player (WoW refugee) and felt the need to make a post about this because I've seen a lot of posts here condemning the idea of removing any abilities in 7.0

I'm saying PLEASE take away some buttons. I play a Fury Marauder and Deception Assassin so far, and for Fury especially, the number of just damage abilities seems incredibly bloated. Between 2 saber throws, ravage, obliterate, vicious strike, raging blow etc. Even in casual content, I feel like my eyes are just constantly hunting all over my several bars to see when the next big damage move is glowing with a proc or coming off CD. That's not what makes a class feel unique or well-designed for me. And I don't think combining abilities or reducing bloat takes away from class identity if the utility is preserved (IE. abilities like Force Choke or Mad Dash should definitely stay).

Anyone else feel that some pruning is needed and there's a good middle ground to be attained? I strongly believe that reducing button bloat is not the same thing as "dumbing down" what I've already started to think is a pretty great game.
It isn't my intention to offend, but if Rage or Fury seem like they have too many buttons for you it's probably practice that you need. I typically run 36 hotkeys (bound) and I can do everything I need to do without looking at my bar, keyboard, or mouse.

You as a player can choose to add or remove certain things to clean up the look of your UI visually. I don't think that other people need to have their choices removed (and the game dumbed down) simply because you have a hard time following what's going on.

A player's ability to handle attacking, defending, positioning, and assisting allies is part of what makes this game competitive. Removing this aspect seems like they're getting rid of the skill / competitive nature of the game (to me). Instead of being able to do all of these things well and shine as a player, we all just get basic functionality and that's it. From a PVP perspective this sounds awful.

A recommendation to help you if you haven't done so already, hotkey your rotation and practice it until you can execute it without looking. Then you should really only be thinking about when you can saber throw, use a utility, or a dcd.

ZionHalcyon's Avatar


ZionHalcyon
07.12.2021 , 05:56 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Dyne- View Post
It isn't my intention to offend, but if Rage or Fury seem like they have too many buttons for you it's probably practice that you need. I typically run 36 hotkeys (bound) and I can do everything I need to do without looking at my bar, keyboard, or mouse.

You as a player can choose to add or remove certain things to clean up the look of your UI visually. I don't think that other people need to have their choices removed (and the game dumbed down) simply because you have a hard time following what's going on.

A player's ability to handle attacking, defending, positioning, and assisting allies is part of what makes this game competitive. Removing this aspect seems like they're getting rid of the skill / competitive nature of the game (to me). Instead of being able to do all of these things well and shine as a player, we all just get basic functionality and that's it. From a PVP perspective this sounds awful.

A recommendation to help you if you haven't done so already, hotkey your rotation and practice it until you can execute it without looking. Then you should really only be thinking about when you can saber throw, use a utility, or a dcd.
He doesn't need practice. He needs less buttons.

Ability glut is a barrier for entry to this game. This has been known for a while.

Sorry if that pisses all over your rotations but you'll adjust.
Remain civil in the face of incivility, lest you be the barbarian.

captainbladejk's Avatar


captainbladejk
07.12.2021 , 06:31 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by ZionHalcyon View Post
He doesn't need practice. He needs less buttons.

Ability glut is a barrier for entry to this game. This has been known for a while.

Sorry if that pisses all over your rotations but you'll adjust.
Folks have no excuse in this day and age for not finding the information they need to learn this game. You not liking certain abilities is not valid reason the entire community should have to give up certain powers because YOU have decided you don't like them. If the OP is having trouble he can ask for help and there are people who would gladly help him out. There are guides and videos that can be looked at as well. new players are only as helpless as they choose to be.

You people need to get over yourselves with thinking the community revolves around you, and that others should have to give up abilities because YOU have decided there are too many. No one is forcing you to use them. It also sounds like Marauder is not the best choice of class for the OP as well.

JCDenton's Avatar


JCDenton
07.12.2021 , 07:15 PM | #7
I'm not mindlessly opposed to all ability pruning, in every case. I just think the implementation they're showing us is really poor.

Dyne-'s Avatar


Dyne-
07.12.2021 , 08:02 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by ZionHalcyon View Post
He doesn't need practice. He needs less buttons.

Ability glut is a barrier for entry to this game. This has been known for a while.

Sorry if that pisses all over your rotations but you'll adjust.
It isn't my rotation, it's the totality of the gaming experience.

A barrier to entry, we'll have to agree to disagree on that one. There are very few things about swtor in its current state that are hard to grasp. The rotation for Fury is 12-13 inputs max. You can buy a mouse with 12 buttons on the side, literally bind your abilities 1-12 and press the buttons in sequential order. I fail to see how that's too difficult for a person who's able bodied and of sound mind.

Also for OP, this could help you out with Fury Mara if you haven't seen it already.

https://vulkk.com/2020/01/12/swtor-6...-by-anatessia/

captainbladejk's Avatar


captainbladejk
07.12.2021 , 08:37 PM | #9
I should also add that if folks like the OP are having a hard time with something, we can't help them if they don't ask. I would rather sit and help someone for a few hours or however long it takes than see the game as a whole nerfed and trashed. This goes beyond just singular toons as the guy above me pointed out. This is about the game as a whole.

If I have abilities A B C D E baseline now on all classes, but abilities B, C and D are taken from me, that leaves me with only abilities A and E. I now have 2 abilities for my class vs the previous 5. If they then offer me a choice of ability to keep from B C D, it's still a nerf to the class as a whole as I'm still missing 2 abilities from before that were baseline. Guardian is just the thing on PTS right now. If they've done this to Guardian, it's safe to assume the other classes will have been equally nerfed, if not more so depending on the class. This isn't about folks not wanting to learn new rotations, but wanting to keep the things that make SWTOR unique.

As for the OP, I personally recommend the Razer Naga mouse that has the 12 buttons on the side, and customizing those buttons with your rotation. I own a Naga myself and would be willing to help set those buttons up if need be. If folks are having a hard time getting into the game or learning something, we can't help if they don't say they need it. We're not mind readers.

Nee-Elder's Avatar


Nee-Elder
07.12.2021 , 08:56 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by ZionHalcyon View Post

Ability glut is a barrier for entry to this game. This has been known for a while.

.
Known by whom? You & your OPINIONS?

I've been here since 2011 beta and i've only seen a handful of random forum-posters complain about "too many skills on bar" and that's usually only been applicable to a select specific couple of Class/templates.

Not every Class & spec needs this type of "pruning" imo. And not every new player is so quick to qquit at the first sign of challenge.

And i've had a Jedi Guardian tank character since beta and i've never once felt "overwhelmed by too many commands" .

Not once.

ESO is a totally different style of combat, so the limited loadout-bar (5 commands per swap) doesn't matter as much to me there. But i come from SWG, so obviously i prefer SWTOR's more robust options compared to ESO's limitations. And i was hoping this LotS announcement might signify a return to pre-4.0 type variety (or at least more 'horizontal progression' type skill trees )

Of course, our preferences & opinions don't mean squat compared to BioWare's development choices.

We all signed into the "gameplay may vary" agreement.
Never tell me the odds! - (Fix SPACE! 4.0ur *Community*)