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Thoughts on PVP?


Neo_Psy

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I've been dabbling with PVP for a few days now, just because of the galactic season points. Just wondering what people think about PVP in this game from a novices point of view. I've messed around in the warzones years ago and always found the game to be too laggy for serious play and to be honest after playing recently I still hold that opinion.

 

Still some fun is to be had as long as i don't take it seriously, I particularly enjoy the warzone where you must hold the two beacon things and collect the energy cubes in the middle and bring the energy back to the beacon. My least favorite is the huttball match because that just seems to be the most laggy one to play.

 

My main gripe with PVP in this game is lag as I have already mentioned, plus the amount of snares and stuns, roots etc. I feel l'm tip toeing in tar a lot of the time or just flat out stun locked. Not to mention some players just seem to be immune from death, as in I see 5 players hitting them with everything they have and their health hardly moves, they even have time to do /spit or /yawn while being attacked.

 

I am very much a casual in this game, so probably some of it is due to my lack of experience but I can't help thinking there are some big balance issues coupled with game performance issues. Just my thoughts as a noob pvp guy. I do still have fun, and I have moments when I seem to be doing well (probably when I'm fighting other players at my skill level) but then most moments when i'm just being stomped while stunned and slowed and i feel like there is nothing I can do.

 

Also, one last thought, is there a way to turn off all the flashy effects in PVP? In a big fight all I tend to see is flash lights from peoples abilities being used, it tends to block out everything that is going on. I get easily distracted by flashy lights, like an over load of sensory input. If I could hide those on screen effects it would probably help me out.

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Honest opinion?

It's a joke at the moment, it's been farcical for a while now, every thing they do seems to make it worse, the list is long at this stage.

changing to wins only, deserter debuff, cheaters being banned, then allowed back in, removing of the brackets, so new people are basically free food for the experienced people. and several more items.

 

As for playing itself, numerous stuns, roots, etc, especially when you're a low level player, and end up facing premade teams 70-74.

 

Personally I play for GS, but I stick to objectives, ie, I guard the nodes, I'm not a great DM/pvp person, so the best thing I can do for my team is to grab a node asap, and call incoming, most of the time, as long as I'm not swamped, I can stop/delay the cap till help arrives.

 

But if GS gave me solo options that were as quick and easy as pvp/gsf, I'd probably do them instead.

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I've been dabbling with PVP for a few days now, just because of the galactic season points. Just wondering what people think about PVP in this game from a novices point of view. I've messed around in the warzones years ago and always found the game to be too laggy for serious play and to be honest after playing recently I still hold that opinion.

 

Still some fun is to be had as long as i don't take it seriously, I particularly enjoy the warzone where you must hold the two beacon things and collect the energy cubes in the middle and bring the energy back to the beacon. My least favorite is the huttball match because that just seems to be the most laggy one to play.

 

My main gripe with PVP in this game is lag as I have already mentioned, plus the amount of snares and stuns, roots etc. I feel l'm tip toeing in tar a lot of the time or just flat out stun locked. Not to mention some players just seem to be immune from death, as in I see 5 players hitting them with everything they have and their health hardly moves, they even have time to do /spit or /yawn while being attacked.

 

I am very much a casual in this game, so probably some of it is due to my lack of experience but I can't help thinking there are some big balance issues coupled with game performance issues. Just my thoughts as a noob pvp guy. I do still have fun, and I have moments when I seem to be doing well (probably when I'm fighting other players at my skill level) but then most moments when i'm just being stomped while stunned and slowed and i feel like there is nothing I can do.

 

Also, one last thought, is there a way to turn off all the flashy effects in PVP? In a big fight all I tend to see is flash lights from peoples abilities being used, it tends to block out everything that is going on. I get easily distracted by flashy lights, like an over load of sensory input. If I could hide those on screen effects it would probably help me out.

 

I'm also a pretty casual player, although an experienced one. Lag is a bit of a problem throughout the game, probably because of how it's built - semi-complete engines tend to be a bit of a mess to deal with in that sense, and that's what they used to create this game.

 

That said, the game has improved a fair bit in general terms during the years, and PvP is probably the most intense activity for the engine to manage - alongside group content, especially top level. So, it struggling a bit from time to time I believe is "acceptable" in light of what I wrote above.

On the other hand, I find the latest WZs introduced to be A LOT more laggy than the rest. I completed a grand total of three out of about a dozen due to getting stuck in the spawning zone and being kicked out due to "inactivity". :(

 

Being stunlocked is a bit of a signature of this game, if you will... they took a bit of a controlling (pun intended) direction when designing the gameplay, where you can (or could, when you didn't faceroll everything with a single button) strategize on when to disable opponents to buy yourself those moments you need to get past them.

That translates in PvP terms into stunlocking. Get stunned once, your resolve grows but doesn't make you immune to stuns to actually allow a bit of margin to the other player - otherwise stuns would be useless, as you get a stun break with a reasonable cooldown if you need it. The second stun caps your Resolve giving you a brief respite from control effects. Resolve's effect ends, rinse and repeat. It can get annoying, but on the bright side if you know what you're doing it's something you can use to play others too. ;)

 

What I'm seeing after returning from a few years off, is a lot of activity in general terms, with a far lower level of skill and a generally worse attitude. I also love Objective WZs (like the Hypergates you mentioned, Huttballs, Novare Coast with the three turrets in a triangle, Alderaan Civil War with the cannons disposed in a line and Voidstar, where you plant bombs to open doors or prevent the others from doing so), as opposed to Arenas - which are fast and easy, but not as fun IMO. Everyone can mash buttons, but Objective WZs require a fair bit of thought process behind that to be won. And big numbers are not a guarantee of quality there. :cool:

Still, the "Win Only" to progress Daily and Weekly makes it a lot more time consuming, but at least now people generally try... Before my break, it was not infrequent to see 1-2 guys get into a corner and just stay there, running around attacking random stragglers to keep active, regardless of the fact the team was being steamrolled due to being effectively a 6-7 VS 8... Premades are a bit unfair by default, but there's really nothing to do other than joining them or accepting that's how it is. :o

 

I also have noticed some weird behaviour, like people capping objectives and planting bombs through walls, or Mercs and Snipers stealthing around just to mention the latest two I got to see - no typos there, I literally mean Mercs with 2 guns and Snipers with the ballistic shield moving around and disappearing whenever they get attacked.

From what I gathered from the other players, hackers are a bit of a plague right now, hopefully they'll get thrown away sooner, rather than later. :rolleyes:

 

Unfortunately, I don't think there are options to make the game less "flashy" other than reducing detail and the general looks of it... I can't check right now, but I have had to deal with the age of my PC lately, and dropping a bit of graphics was all I could really do. :o

 

All that said, I think the main point is having fun. So long as you have it, keep at it. :)

Edited by Cox_The_Beast
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I also have noticed some weird behaviour, like people capping objectives and planting bombs through walls, or Mercs and Snipers stealthing around just to mention the latest two I got to see - no typos there, I literally mean Mercs with 2 guns and Snipers with the ballistic shield moving around and disappearing whenever they get attacked.

From what I gathered from the other players, hackers are a bit of a plague right now, hopefully they'll get thrown away sooner, rather than later. :rolleyes:

 

there seems to be a lot of cheating and hacks lately :/

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I have seen Mercs and Snipers stealth out as well, quite often. Just like untarget-able enemies and all the other d-syncs, exploits and outright hacks they refuse to fix. The players who complain non-stop all match about team mates because they take pvp seriously enough to do so are great comedy and need to come to grips with the fact as long as they are NOT paying others subs, their opinions don't matter.
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I find it ok, 80% of the games are decent, thats why i keep playing it, but I am not touching ranked not even for dailies.

Even the lost games can be fun, except those 20% against premades/bad matchmaking, but still beats wow pvp quality where as alliance would spend most of pvp games camped in graveyard.

I don't understand how other classes work, the invincible characters you mentioned, there are games where one team is on steroids doing 50k+ per hit and other team is using wet noodles and I presumed maybe stats are adjusted +- to make it challenging.

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Not seen any of these non stealth classes disappearing as if stealthing. I have had untargetable players a few times and I’ve seen one speed hack used in combo with a Hutt Ball macro the other day.

 

Is it possible the stealth situation is an operative using group stealth? I have noticed a lot of in experienced operatives using it at the wrong time in matches.

 

Lastly, if you have recording software setup and see suspect behaviour, please record and send to BioWare. And if you feel like sharing with the players, don’t post here or you’ll get a warning for name shaming :rolleyes:

But you could post it on the swtor Theory Crafters Discord for us to look at and also show BioWare dev ChrisS.

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Not seen any of these non stealth classes disappearing as if stealthing. I have had untargetable players a few times and I’ve seen one speed hack used in combo with a Hutt Ball macro the other day.

 

Is it possible the stealth situation is an operative using group stealth? I have noticed a lot of in experienced operatives using it at the wrong time in matches.

 

Lastly, if you have recording software setup and see suspect behaviour, please record and send to BioWare. And if you feel like sharing with the players, don’t post here or you’ll get a warning for name shaming :rolleyes:

But you could post it on the swtor Theory Crafters Discord for us to look at and also show BioWare dev ChrisS.

 

I need to say, I've been away from the game for a few years, so I'm not 100% sure what actually changed in terms of mechanics and the like, but from what I gathered the "old" WZs still work pretty much the same.

I'll give some explanation on what I saw, although probably a bit off topic, because I think it may be relevant due to the fact hacking is a common thing now, from what I've been told by others. I play on Darth Malgus, in case it happens to be relevant, and these happened both in levelling and 75 non-Ranked, although not on a daily basis - I had it in about 6-7 WZs out of possibly 100, while I levelled my lvl 65 Sorc to 75 solely through WZs.

 

The cap through walls was visible mostly incidentally. Novare Coast has bunkers, and I happened to be moving from the N one to the S one, when I noticed a guy parked outside with a purple beam of light going through the wall to cap the turret, thus making it impossible for our team to cap it back due to the attack from the other team on the front of the bunker. That should not be possible, I'm sure. You need a range from the console, but you also need it in your field of view to, you know, select it (Right Click it).

 

The planting bomb was a bit different, it just so happened that I was using Force Storm on my Sorc to "discourage" a planting with enemies getting close to the door, and the planting happened regardless with nobody close enough to it, except someone who appeared to be behind the door on the map. I couldn't even select the guy, so no idea what class or anything else he/she was.

 

I thought of the Operative GroupStealth myself, but AFAIK you can't stealth out of a battle with that, and it has a time limit. Anyone can correct me if I'm wrong? :confused:

 

The Merc and Sniper I mentioned would attack appearing out of nothing, literally disappear into thin air whenever their health went under 75%, suddenly reappear behind you at range at full health in a matter of seconds, rinse and repeat. The Sniper notably kept moving aroung with the ballistic shield on, it's how I noticed it was not an Operative. Even discounting the stealthing out, the H2Full in 3- secs seems a tad... Too much. :cool:

 

As for the reporting, I would have, but the guys, while targetable, would appear and disappear so often it was hard to find a moment to click on them and report, let alone actually focus on reading their names... :eek:

 

I am ashamed to admit I can't setup recording software on my PC due to its age, I can run the game reasonably well so long as nothing else is going on in the background, but recording is probably above what my PC can manage while I play. I can't even use Teamspeak or equivalents, to put it in perspective... :(

I can't really afford to upgrade sadly, so I'm making due with what I have, tinkering with it as much as possible... Sorry, you guys will have to take my word for it. :o

 

I am however 100% positive what I described happened, because other players saw the same thing, and I don't think my PC could influence theirs in such a way, right? :D

Edited by Cox_The_Beast
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A lot of the self healing crap and immunity skills need to be removed from the game along with solo ranked needing to be removed making ranked a proper ranked setting with group ranked only, but aside from that and the fact 8v8 ranked is gone, pvp for the most part is fine.
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I've been dabbling with PVP for a few days now, just because of the galactic season points. Just wondering what people think about PVP in this game from a novices point of view....

 

Started dabbling in PvP a few months ago. I don't think the current state of PvP is horrible. It's not great, mind you, but it could be worse. I'm learning how to deal with stuns, have a decent grasp on objectives, and so forth. Sometimes there are experience or communication issues where one team just doesn't pull together, and that's fine. A 10 minute loss is shorter than the lockout, I just requeue and hope for the best. I'm in the middle of a test where I record & log my warzones, and I'm finding that (overall) I have more good matches than bad.

 

A lot of the problems seem to come down to bad matchmaking. Case in point: I had a Hypergate match yesterday where we had a tank and (2) healers, and the other team had neither. It should also be noted that our team had no obvious premades, but it was an easy win on comp alone, since our team just didn't die. I've been on the other side of that equation, too.

 

As long as you don't take unranked too seriously, I think you can have a lot of fun with it. I don't need more gear; I'm just in it to play and have fun, so even if I lose I don't really "lose," any more than wiping on a boss in prog is "losing." It's just something to learn from.

Edited by Crystal_Mind
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A lot of the self healing crap and immunity skills need to be removed from the game...

 

Agreed.

 

...along with solo ranked needing to be removed making ranked a proper ranked setting with group ranked only, but aside from that and the fact 8v8 ranked is gone, pvp for the most part is fine.

 

And, you lost me.

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I also started for the points, but only on a healing operative. I find some matches beyond frustrating while others are fun. Hutt ball is the worst for me and I always seem to lose 6 to 0. I only run around and try to heal my team members which probably is not a good idea on Hutt ball. The only thing I really hate is the announcers when you lose. I just wish they would say nothing and not belittle you. After playing Hutt ball I want to kill the Hutt in charge in a flashpoint. The other annoying thing that happens is the winning side saying good game or gg to the losing side. That is not something I want to hear or read from them. Requiring wins for the daily and weekly is also annoying turning them into long term objectives that could last a month, especially because I might only try one or three warzones at a time. I just wish teams would talk to each other more about a plan before the match.
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Random thoughts from somebody who had quit and returned multiple times (I’m sure that’s many of us). Back as of about a month ago, had a chance to do some unranked, focusing mostly on Deception Sin and VG (plasma tech is surprisingly fun). Formerly marauder main, just felt like something different.

 

1. I’m not a fan of these three things coupled together: deserter lockout (15 minute penalty for leaving), no ability to choose maps, wins only for daily / weekly.

 

I understand the deserter lockout and in some ways, it’s a very good thing. But I’m not a fan of two maps in particular. We can’t choose maps. When I get those two maps, I just log off and come back in 15 minutes. Also, some games you can just tell from the beginning that it’s a lost cause. So you can sit through a lost cause, waste 10-15 minutes and have little to show for it (a whole 10 tech frags, wow) - OR, you can log off and go do something productive for 15 minutes and come back, similar net effect. Now, I will tell you that I do sit there and tough it out. Sometimes there is an occasional and amazing come from behind win, those are very satisfying! But that doesn’t usually happen.

 

My opinion, best solution would be to allow us to omit 1-2 maps from the rotation and go back to the wins count x2, remove deserter lockout. I don’t care if people leave a losing match. We often get better players as backfill and turn things around. That is far preferable to just keeping the same bad team and knowing it’s a complete waste of time.

 

I recall Musco saying awhile back that there is a hidden ranking system for unranked warzones, for the purposes of better matchmaking. I do believe I can see this system in action. Generally speaking, matches that I play with a newer character seem easier. It feels like the system has that char ranked low and therefore puts me on a good team. On the flip side, it does seem that my older and more main chars seem to be placed on bad teams more often. Maybe this is all just my imagination, but I don’t think so.

 

2. Why are the purple and gold augments so ludicrously expensive?!?!?!??

 

Not much else to say here. I’m rolling with blues, Bolster helps out. Seems like it’s probably only a big deal for master mode raiders. But still a bit of a head-scratcher that these augs are made from unobtainium. Not sure it was wise to make the components only obtainable via ops and GROUP ranked. Maybe solo ranked would make a little sense, but group? But why...

 

3. Classes actually feel reasonably well balanced. I have no complaints. Maybe a few specs are underperforming, but most seem reasonably competitive.

Edited by teclado
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Thanks for your replies, seems most people agree it's all very unbalanced and the performance of the game is terrible.

 

Played warzones all this morning and today and it's just really....garbage, frankly. It's just stun stun stun stun slow lag lag, players warping around and glitching. You ever seen players on huttball just glitching out on the spot and warping around?

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I read the SW theory crafters discord a fair bit and it seems even the die hard ranked guys are finally giving up on ranked because BioWare won’t fix the buggy maps / performance issues and because it seems BioWare have decided it’s too hard to police ranked cheaters and wintraders.

No bans handed out at the end of the season to known cheaters with many reports and proof against them. Unlocking accounts previously banned or locked out of pvp for cheating or throwing matches. Reports are going unanswered and hackers aren’t being removed in a timely manner.

It feels like BioWare have thrown their hands up in the air like it’s too hard to administer or they can’t be bothered.

So that doesn’t bode well for the game if Bioware’s decided to throw in the towel with ranked and the ranked guys have stopped caring.

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Thoughts on PVP?

 

I think I'm gonna hijack your thread instead of making my own.

 

It's terrible.

 

I just lost a Voidstar (I HATE THAT ONE) the highest kill total was 38. 22 Kills higher than my team and 10 kills higher than our opponents next highest kill count. Those 38 kills, done with less than 90k damage on the board. The phux?

 

The wife was playing with me at the start of Galactic Season, the one loss a day in pvp frustrated her into quitting. So thats a sub that was lost. I kinda doubt shes the only one.

 

I don't know how to fix it. On paper adding the pvp to the galactic seasons OPs make sense to try and get some new blood in pvp. But its not fun. I'm sure its fun for premades that have been playing swtor pvp for the last decade or so. But do I get stronghold Items from unranked? Not really. The good stuff? Gated behing ilvl 306 (im 304) and ranked. But you know what, going in for a few minutes into a deathmatch or huttball I don't mind. Voidstar tho? What a nightmare. Slap each other at the first bomb where a healer on each teams heals upwords of 20mil damage. No one makes any progress and we just slap fight at the bomb. Slap, slap, heal to full, slap, slap, the other guy heals to full, slap, slap, heals, slap, slap.. 20 minutes or so later I'm in a bad mood and just wanna turn that damn game off.

 

So devs, and pvp players that wonder why you have 5 hour waits. It's not fun being fodder for a premade team. It's not fun wanting to yell cheater at your computer but biting it back because youre trying to be a good sport.

 

But I won't just come and complain, I do have a suggestion that would make things better for me. Let me opt out of Voidstar in my randoms. Give me one black list warzone, just one. I'm happy cause I never have to waste my time slap fighting in the Voidstar ever again. Devs get to collect analytical data on which is the WORST warzone (its Voidstar, and I agree with the previous posters that objective based pvp is more interesting/fun than deathmatch). And I dont know, am I supposed to be sympathetic to long time pvpers and have something offered to them, I guess maybe when I was interested in learning and asking questions yall shoulda kept those "git guds" to yourself.

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But its not fun. I'm sure its fun for premades that have been playing swtor pvp for the last decade or so.

 

ALERT: record broken for most myopic statement.

 

So devs, and pvp players that wonder why you have 5 hour waits. It's not fun being fodder for a premade team. It's not fun wanting to yell cheater at your computer but biting it back because youre trying to be a good sport.

 

i don't think i've ever waited more than ten minutes for a warzone, ever. not even at the deadest of times (all i do is pvp). usually pops only take a few minutes (for warzones). something tells me you don't just rage when playing with "premades". even if, how exactly are premades "cheating"?

 

And I dont know, am I supposed to be sympathetic to long time pvpers and have something offered to them, I guess maybe when I was interested in learning and asking questions yall shoulda kept those "git guds" to yourself.

 

it really doesn't matter, you can be as sympathetic/unsympathetic as you wish. regardless, your opinion will never have any sway over the development of this game. oh, and git gud. :D

Edited by zerkington
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It's not fun wanting to yell cheater at your computer but biting it back because youre trying to be a good sport.

 

This is meant to be taken as honest, constructive criticism, not a mean spirited troll. If you legitimately think people are cheating in this game, you are clearly very bad not just at playing the game but also recognizing how the mechanics of the game work. Since the game came out, there have been a bare handful of actual cheaters with video evidence of "classic" hacking. There are perhaps players who are overly laggy and use that to their advantage when capping objectives, but that's pretty silly to get upset about since it's not actually pvp combat. The only common exploiters in this game are people who multibox to gain rating in the ranked queue.

 

If you think people in rega are farming you because they are using a third party utility to alter their stats, speed, or GCD or something, to the level it makes you angry IRL, you need to take a break from video games and take up competitive apple carving or something.

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I am noticing the pop times increasing again for lowbies, lvl 75 and GSF at many of the times I play (on 3 serves now). Certainly not 5 hours as a previous poster indicated, but they are getting longer.

 

My wife nearly didn’t get her PVP and GSF Galactic Seasons dailies done on SS last night because pops we out to 20+ mins on both. And she was queuing for GSF and pvp at the same time.

 

I joined the queues solo to add another body to mix (to help it pop) and because you cannot queue both GSF and pvp while grouped (which is stupid by the way). Even with me in the queues it was 20mins from when I joined and I’m sure she was already queued for 10+ mins at that point. So her pops were about 30+mins.

 

Even SF lowbies at that time was much slower than before GS was added to the game. So combining those brackets has now done nothing for pop times. If anything it has driven them down at the times I play because people below lvl 40-50 don’t like being stunned to death by lvl 60-74s.

 

Biowares bandaid ideas to hold pvp together is what’s destroying it slowly. They need to stop and think and engage with the player base before they make it worse from inaction or more bad ideas.

Edited by TrixxieTriss
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Everybody's opinion about PVP and its current state will vary. What is the ole saying? Opinions are like B holes, everybody has one. :D

 

I for one am truly enjoying pvp lately. I have been involved in some incredibly fun matches and really have come to respect a bunch of you out there. It is absolutely amazing what some of you can do with various classes/specs.

 

I have toned my shenanigans way down because of GS though. Meaning, I have really tried to shut my mouth and have accepted the fact that there are a bunch of new players involved now. I honestly would like them to enjoy the experience so they will queue up more often.

 

GSF has been very good for me. I am getting much better and am really enjoying it now. Why? Many have taken the time to give me suggestions that have really helped with my gameplay. To all that have helped.....Thank You!!...I really appreciate it.

 

As an experienced pvp'er, I have really tried to implement the helpfulness I have gotten in GSF to those new folks in regs. Hopefully, I can help the team win and show newer players that pvp is not always the toxic venue that is often portrayed.

 

To those who have had a negative experience, keep at it. You will get better the more you play.

Edited by Nickodemous
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This is meant to be taken as honest, constructive criticism, not a mean spirited troll. If you legitimately think people are cheating in this game, you are clearly very bad not just at playing the game

 

Except, there are cheaters in this game, known cheaters, people who've been banned, but came back on different accounts, or worse, became unbanned . I don't know the poster, no idea how good/bad they are, they may see people doing thngs that are not cheats, but just really good players, or they may be seeing actual cheats. We've seen them boasting in discord, , etc.

 

But there are cheats in this game, the forum is full of posts about them, dysync , untargetable people, fly hacks, etc.

Edited by DarkTergon
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Except, there are cheaters in this game, known cheaters, people who've been banned, but came back on different accounts, or worse, became unbanned . I don't know the poster, no idea how good/bad they are, they may see people doing thngs that are not cheats, but just really good players, or they may be seeing actual cheats. We've seen them boasting in discord, , etc.

 

But there are cheats in this game, the forum is full of posts about them, dysync , untargetable people, fly hacks, etc.

 

These posts are from the same few people, at least one of whom is known to play the game via a VPN with extremely high ping.

 

In 8 years of play I have seen perhaps 2 players who were actively cheating using a third party hack. I've seen occasional players having a laugh with one of the game engine's many bugs. But the poster I replied to makes it sound like being farmed by hackers is a nightly occurrence. Thats now it works. Hacking doesn't lead to you getting farmed by a team where 3 players are hitting 10-15k DPS. That's just low population plus bad matchmaking.

 

The reason this whining gets ignored by the dev team is because it's stupid.

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/snip

 

These convos usually go, you say, I say, he says, etc, and end up going in circles. I've been playing almost 10 years, not quite a founder, unfortunately, but I have been a constant sub, and player. Personally I've seen some of the cheats, especially the untargetable one. It's probably just one or two bad apples, but as we know, it only takes a couple of bad apples to ruin a barrel :(

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These convos usually go, you say, I say, he says, etc, and end up going in circles. I've been playing almost 10 years, not quite a founder, unfortunately, but I have been a constant sub, and player. Personally I've seen some of the cheats, especially the untargetable one. It's probably just one or two bad apples, but as we know, it only takes a couple of bad apples to ruin a barrel :(

 

Saying you've seen an untargetable cheat invalidates your opinion of what a cheat is.

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