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The gearing progression design is absurd, and 95% of game content is now obsolete


Elvarania

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I find the gearing progression design choice absurd. R-4 veteran is only being cleared by the top raid teams. This is surely locking out, what, 95% + of the playerbase from 340 gear?

 

There is absolutely no incentive for the majority of players to do legacy content because there is no gear reward.

All flashpoints reward 330 gear, which means when people get one of the longer/more difficult ones, usually the whole group disbands to try their queue RNG on an alt.

 

We are using stims, augments and medpacks from level 70 content.

 

This gearing design choice is regressive. Guilds and the server in general (i'm on Darth Malgus) is quieter than its ever been. Raid teams are dissolving because they are unable or unwilling to prog R-4 when you need to use 6 DPS and 2 healers for the first boss. Because of insane inflation, the guilds that can clear it are offering sales runs for hundreds of BILLIONS of credits.

 

What was the decision behind locking 330+ behind R-4? Why not give a token, or some sort of currency, to all Master Mode ops, to give us incentive to do them? What's the point in introducing a 10% HP nerf when no one is interested in running them? Why not allow us to purchase a Veteran token for, say, 100 Story mode tokens?

 

It's great you can go to a vendor and gear all your alts to 330 in a matter of minutes, but now 95% of the games content is obsolete other than doing it for conquest, and it's killing guilds and raid teams.

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I find the gearing progression design choice absurd. R-4 veteran is only being cleared by the top raid teams. This is surely locking out, what, 95% + of the playerbase from 340 gear?

 

There is absolutely no incentive for the majority of players to do legacy content because there is no gear reward.

All flashpoints reward 330 gear, which means when people get one of the longer/more difficult ones, usually the whole group disbands to try their queue RNG on an alt.

 

We are using stims, augments and medpacks from level 70 content.

 

This gearing design choice is regressive. Guilds and the server in general (i'm on Darth Malgus) is quieter than its ever been. Raid teams are dissolving because they are unable or unwilling to prog R-4 when you need to use 6 DPS and 2 healers for the first boss. Because of insane inflation, the guilds that can clear it are offering sales runs for hundreds of BILLIONS of credits.

 

What was the decision behind locking 330+ behind R-4? Why not give a token, or some sort of currency, to all Master Mode ops, to give us incentive to do them? What's the point in introducing a 10% HP nerf when no one is interested in running them? Why not allow us to purchase a Veteran token for, say, 100 Story mode tokens?

 

It's great you can go to a vendor and gear all your alts to 330 in a matter of minutes, but now 95% of the games content is obsolete other than doing it for conquest, and it's killing guilds and raid teams.

 

Couldn't agree more. Considering the amount of nim trolls we've have had on the forums attacking everyone who complains about the gearing, I would say the only reason to lock 340 gear behind R-4 HM is to milk the playerbase with sale runs as much as they can.

 

I would like to run old nims, I still need a few 16m cheevos. But no, everyone else wants to wipe on R-4 or farm DF for frags. To make it worse, tanks have been made unnecessary, which blocks the 340 gearing again behind sale runs, or not getting the gear at all if you happen to be main tank and don't play other roles. And to make it even worse, BW suddenly ditched personal loot for R-4. Even if you clear it, there is no guarantee you're gonna get the tokens to buy new gear.

 

The only guaranteed gear drop is by buying a sale run. Working as intended?

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Why do you need 340 gear right now? They will eventually raise the tiers again like they did with 7.1. You will be able to get 340 gear then.

 

No reason, but I want it now. NOW! NOW! NOW! NOW!

 

Let's ignore legacy nims have been nerfed so they're easier with 330. Let's ignore PvP is 328 capped. They need 340 for the story! :D

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That's just silly. It's like saying the only reason to play baseball is so you can get a better bat. 😅

 

No, its playing baseball and... the winner gets a bat he already have. And than another one, And than one more. And than the next one. Its just a matter of time until he quits. May take 100 bats or 1000, however, its not hard to see that this is going nowhere except a waste of time.

 

You can play your usual game of nitpicking, it won't bring back the players that left. Since march the game is bleeding players, only haltet by the Obi-wan show fore some days. So c'mon tell me again how great it goes, while more and more players leaving. :o

Edited by Xhuuyaa
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Why do you need 340 gear right now? They will eventually raise the tiers again like they did with 7.1. You will be able to get 340 gear then.

 

No reason, but I want it now. NOW! NOW! NOW! NOW!

 

Let's ignore legacy nims have been nerfed so they're easier with 330. Let's ignore PvP is 328 capped. They need 340 for the story! :D

 

I find it fascinating how invested in being an absolute baby about people wanting the freedom to do what they like without arbitrary and unnecessary roadblocks in their path your type are. If a person who enjoys running story content wants to dip into an alternative, whether it be MM FP or PVP, would it not be better for them to be able to do so without needing to follow a convoluted gearing track? Should we not be wanting more people to be confident enough to try something different? Our new system pushed people to grind out, if not afk, GSF matches to save up gear boxes to go through the grind in a 'legit' manner and that in no way says ANYTHING about a person's ability to play well already.

 

How are YOU affected by people having the ability to do so?

 

This expectation is Bioware's own fault for setting it as a precedent while trying to keep all content roughly equal in terms of relevancy and its the model that seemed to pay off the most when it came to the mostly casual base the game has retained since its departure from the more rigid and MMO-focused perspective they had prior to going all in on the casual side. The thing is, this isn't a bad standard for where the game is in its life, which is why the loss of a 'play what you want' model is such a tragedy. What do you have to lose by players having 340 gear? More people having the means to undertake operations with a degree of safety afforded by better gear? More people in queue for endgame pvp and flashpoints? Tell me, what is the absolute positive to gating gear in a game that long gave up the ghost about its priorities as an mmo?

 

By no means am I saying slap a bunch of 340 gear on every fresh 80 and set them loose, there are fundamental gameplay issues that still are not addressed and there are a lot of people who have no clue what a rotation is even supposed to be. But getting someone invested enough in learning at all would require some sort of leaning into, not hardstop roadblocks. The old system allowed people to have a safety net, and while nowhere near perfect, was certainly better at equipping the playerbase to engage in the grind.

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There is absolutely no incentive for the majority of players to do legacy content because there is no gear reward.

 

Luckily, there are other rewards, at least for some people. Legacy content, like all of the game's content, is static, known, and always ends up the same way (minus a dead companion here and there) regardless how you play.

But that doesn't make that content obsolete, and sure as hell not for lacking gearing options. Head canon, role-play, things to do as a group like world bosses and datacron runs — all of that is still out there all the time for people to do.

 

Equate gearing = content for yourself if you want, but I'll hazard there's more to glean from the content than that.

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No, its playing baseball and... the winner gets a bat he already have. And than another one, And than one more. And than the next one. Its just a matter of time until he quits. May take 100 bats or 1000, however, its not hard to see that this is going nowhere except a waste of time.

/swoosh

The point is that baseball and SWTOR can be played merely for the enjoyment of playing the game without needing some sort of 'reward' (participant ribbon) each time. 🙄

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No reason, but I want it now. NOW! NOW! NOW! NOW!

 

Let's ignore legacy nims have been nerfed so they're easier with 330. Let's ignore PvP is 328 capped. They need 340 for the story! :D

 

Why does it matter if someone wants 340? Is it hurting your feelings that someone who does not love raiding (or does not want to run R4) wants the ability to obtain 340?

 

So what if they can not maximize the stats in all the content they want to play... are you maximizing every ounce of this game every time you play?

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/swoosh

The point is that baseball and SWTOR can be played merely for the enjoyment of playing the game without needing some sort of 'reward' (participant ribbon) each time. 🙄

 

I know you would say that. :cool:

and its true. And you can have a lot of fun doing things the first, second or third time.

But if you played (old) stuff a hundred times for years - you look more and more at the outcome that justifies doing the stuff again.. and again.. and again.

 

And after 10 years nobody who's arround for years will play the old stuff again if it ain't worth it... thats what the OPer talked about. Thats the point where we are now.

 

The question you (or better the devs) should answer is; Why should a veteran player do a MM FP? Or an uprising? or an Vet FP? Or SM OPs? Or HC OPs? Or PvP? He has done most oft this years ago. The fun of it? He had it years ago. For veteran players there is only the new R4 Raid worth doing anything and some DF SM on autopilot in 20 minutes. Thats what the Oper meant by saying 95% of the game has become obsolete.

 

 

edit: and if you were right an players don't need a "reward" - if thats really true - why don't let players buy 340 BiS gear for some credits and play whatever the want? If youre are right, that should'nt make any difference because all players only play for fun and will continue doing so. But I think we both know thats not true.

Edited by Xhuuyaa
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/swoosh

The point is that baseball and SWTOR can be played merely for the enjoyment of playing the game without needing some sort of 'reward' (participant ribbon) each time. 🙄

 

Would you want to play baseball with a nerf bat? Would you want to play the catchers position without a good glove?

 

In baseball, gear is acquired before playing, and the game is played for fun or money, but gear is held out as a reward in swtor, and must be earned through a ridiculous grind in order to perform at peak levels.

 

In swtor we get the equivalent of nerf bats and kid gloves to play the game, and we want the good stuff.

 

How is that so hard to understand?

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Would you want to play baseball with a nerf bat? Would you want to play the catchers position without a good glove?

 

In baseball, gear is acquired before playing, and the game is played for fun or money, but gear is held out as a reward in swtor, and must be earned through a ridiculous grind in order to perform at peak levels.

 

In swtor we get the equivalent of nerf bats and kid gloves to play the game, and we want the good stuff.

 

How is that so hard to understand?

 

No gear necessary to role-play.

Or walk around in your own head-canon believing you're a lost space botanist on a Martian colony.

Or hold live events in a stronghold.

Or hunt datacrons.

Or do anything else this game permits. Kids turn trash cans into shields and paper bags into forts. Get creative.

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edit: and if you were right an players don't need a "reward" - if thats really true - why don't let players buy 340 BiS gear for some credits and play whatever the want? If youre are right, that should'nt make any difference because all players only play for fun and will continue doing so. But I think we both know thats not true.

 

Buying BiS gear with creds is a fantastic idea. EVERYONE would buy it so it would be a wonderful credit sink. Everyone wins. At that point, anything you do will come down to skill at the highest levels. If you can't do it still, you could still buy a sale run from the top players. Though i don't know why they even do sales runs anymore. They're already maxed out on credits, unless they're selling them to the credit sellers, which would be a ToS violation. oh, snap! i wonder how many of them do that?

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Buying BiS gear with creds is a fantastic idea. EVERYONE would buy it so it would be a wonderful credit sink. Everyone wins. At that point, anything you do will come down to skill at the highest levels. If you can't do it still, you could still buy a sale run from the top players. Though i don't know why they even do sales runs anymore. They're already maxed out on credits, unless they're selling them to the credit sellers, which would be a ToS violation. oh, snap! i wonder how many of them do that?

 

Well, no. Because if you price it to fight the inflation most of the playerbase wouldn't get it ;)

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edit: and if you were right an players don't need a "reward" - if thats really true - why don't let players buy 340 BiS gear for some credits and play whatever the want? If youre are right, that should'nt make any difference because all players only play for fun and will continue doing so. But I think we both know thats not true.

Let me say this one last time so that maybe even you can understand.

I don't care if other players have 340 gear. It makes no difference to me. I'm simply pointing out - primarily to the readers of the forums - that you don't NEED the bestest newest gear to enjoy playing the game and that 'gear' shouldn't be the goal to playing the game.

I know you'll find some way to twist my words or flat out fail to comprehend, but, oh well. 🙄

Edited by JediQuaker
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Let me say this one last time so that maybe even you can understand.

I don't care if other players have 340 gear. It makes no difference to me. I'm simply pointing out - primarily to the readers of the forums - that you don't NEED the bestest newest gear to enjoy playing the game and that 'gear' shouldn't be the goal to playing the game.

I know you'll find some way to twist my words or flat out fail to comprehend, but, oh well. 🙄

 

I'm not going to twist your words and I comprehend the meaning of your post perfectly. Hopefully, you will extend me the same courtesy.

 

I neither need nor desire your input on how I should have fun in a video game or what my in-game goals should be. I don't agree with the entirety of the OP's point, but I sympathize with much of it. S/he has been afforded the privilege to express that opinion, which s/he did in a very polite, coherent, and well-written way.

 

It's one thing to disagree on substance, which you obviously do; it's another thing entirely to say, which in effect you have, "this is how you should have fun and these should (or should not) be your in-game goals." It's a bit patronizing.

 

Regards,

 

:csw_jabba:

 

Dasty

Edited by Jdast
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I'm simply pointing out - primarily to the readers of the forums - that you don't NEED the bestest newest gear to enjoy playing the game

 

So, than let me say this as polite as I can. If you don't care, than don't argue or "pointing out". If it makes no difference to you, be happy and stay quiet BECAUSE you don't have any clue what others NEED.

And thats because you don't have the slightest idea what others/I were playing BEFORE 7.o and its gear disaster and what they play now. You have no clue what HM content need which gear now, because you don't play it.

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Let me say this one last time so that maybe even you can understand.

I don't care if other players have 340 gear. It makes no difference to me. I'm simply pointing out - primarily to the readers of the forums - that you don't NEED the bestest newest gear to enjoy playing the game and that 'gear' shouldn't be the goal to playing the game.

I know you'll find some way to twist my words or flat out fail to comprehend, but, oh well. 🙄

 

One last time huh. I hope so.

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6.0 actually had a good gearing system. It didn't matter if it was fast or slow, but everyone could get BiS gear. At that point, people were free to do whatever they wanted. There was no chasing for anything, except for cheevos. The raiding pool was actually very healthy. 7.0 came around and loads of people of all play styles got upset and left the game. The "vision" was flawed. Corrective action should be taken to re-equalize the playing field.

 

The beginning of 7.0 was a bit of a mess. There were a lot of people that didn't want to do nefra over and over. The barrier to entry was actually low though, so people could be carried. So it wasn't a terrible system at all. While we may not have liked it, we did what it took to get the gear.

 

With above 330 gear only coming out of R4 HM though, very few people will ever get it, for the foreseeable future. It has very high barriers to entry, and therefore is a bad gearing system.

Edited by Chryptyk
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The fact that their is only one way to get the best gear in the game is not good. Developers should have made multiple ways to get the best gear in the game. Developers should be giving a majority of their players the tools (gear) they need to try and complete all of the content they possibly can. That way it comes down to skill to clearing things. I know the toxic portion of the NIM community will twist what I just said but it shouldn't. The reason they shouldn't is because just because people have doesn't mean they will still be able to complete all the NiM content. They will still be able to do their sales runs at highly inflated prices that only people who can afford to buy either credits or hypercrates from the market can afford. I would like to take the game back to 6.0 where everyone could get max gear and it did come down to skill to do top content. You still had your top NiM community trying to gate keep but it wasn't as bad. Now it feels like these people have Developers support when they only make one way to get gear, and put it behind content that only "sales teams" can beat. I wonder how long it will take for even more people to leave this game because of this latest mess.
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