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Juggernaut DCDs


Nickodemous's Avatar


Nickodemous
04.25.2021 , 06:58 AM | #11
First, a merc heal to full bubble is pretty easy to notice when it has been activated. Don't hit em. Just force choke em and wait it out.

Now, I agree that a dps jugg/guardian has its issues in ranked. It actually blows the mind considering how differently they play in regs. They are quite efficient in regs.

The main problem is they are so damn easy to keep stun locked by good players. The key is to keep moving, as Trixxie said, mad dash is a good cc breaker. Force leap and the 4 second immunity to stuns is your friend also. Mad dash, and being able to leap to a stationary target helps.....100% dmg immunity for the duration of md and the 4 sec stun immunity after leap. There are many classes that can close on you quickly so it much more difficult to accomplish than it sounds.

I think it would be great if a dps jugg could utilize the backhand talent as our immortal counterparts. Another stun could help.
Tyranticus - Ty'zor - Maullin - Clandestu - Pepe'nero

The Elite Warlord Club - The PVP FAB FIVE

Skummy's Avatar


Skummy
04.28.2021 , 07:12 AM | #12
Coming back to the game since 5.0 warriors/knights are the worst they have ever been in arena. If all four of the other team is on your butt i hope you know how to kite or time your camo because mara can be blown up in one stun by good players pumping. Jugg lolol has heavy armor but has to kite like a limp dog to survive to get another ed/fd up again with grit teeth tactical. Anyone defending other wise ques with pocket healers or q's solos with friends so they dont get fully focused first. Nite and day playing a arms warrior in wow.

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
04.28.2021 , 09:10 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Skummy View Post
Coming back to the game since 5.0 warriors/knights are the worst they have ever been in arena. If all four of the other team is on your butt i hope you know how to kite or time your camo because mara can be blown up in one stun by good players pumping. Jugg lolol has heavy armor but has to kite like a limp dog to survive to get another ed/fd up again with grit teeth tactical. Anyone defending other wise ques with pocket healers or q's solos with friends so they dont get fully focused first. Nite and day playing a arms warrior in wow.
warriors don't kite. if you're trying to kite on a warrior, then you're doing it wrong. sents/maras have an escape. jugs/guards, however, are built to fight while taking punishment. but kiting isn't in their toolkit by design. their movement abilities actually rely on being in the face of their opponents. thus, their tookit (as with sents/maras) is designed around CC immunities, gap closers, and 4-10m attacks/pushes/leaps/CC.

I agree that juggs in particular don't play well in rated arenas (DPS spec) -- or at least they didn't when I was last in arenas (s11? iunno. I just recieved a bunch of silvers Tues. but I don't think I played the last season, which was in 5.0). that said, if you hung back on your jugg, you just made the game 4v3. the best you could go is, like PTs, jump in and unload for as long as your DCDs allowed.
Krack

Skummy's Avatar


Skummy
04.28.2021 , 01:21 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by foxmob View Post
warriors don't kite. if you're trying to kite on a warrior, then you're doing it wrong. sents/maras have an escape. jugs/guards, however, are built to fight while taking punishment. but kiting isn't in their toolkit by design. their movement abilities actually rely on being in the face of their opponents. thus, their tookit (as with sents/maras) is designed around CC immunities, gap closers, and 4-10m attacks/pushes/leaps/CC.

I agree that juggs in particular don't play well in rated arenas (DPS spec) -- or at least they didn't when I was last in arenas (s11? iunno. I just recieved a bunch of silvers Tues. but I don't think I played the last season, which was in 5.0). that said, if you hung back on your jugg, you just made the game 4v3. the best you could go is, like PTs, jump in and unload for as long as your DCDs allowed.
No i didnt hang back but after ed is gone you have to kite to get another ed when theirs a sniper sent pt and a skank jugg on yu you cannot face tank with no support im sorry this meta is burst and your health literally goes to 100 to 50 really fast idk what you on about. Sentinel can literally die in global if you get caught up. No amount of immunities is going to stop a hard focus good players pumping on you. Yea you have to kite now thats there gameplay you must play with friends that off heal or taunt or something because taking full dmg from four other people you aint gonna last a long time. I literally kited all the other teams players well everyone on my team focused there sent or w/e. Because everyone knows hard focus a jugg because after there dcds they going down. And btw if you get hard stunned with no break you cant escape on sent only rebuke if you took the talent so thats how you get globaled. Only get cc immunities in fury or focus. Arms warrior in wow *********** pumps feels like a warrior should feel condemn is awesome literally no kiting there. Night and day idk why i subbed again tbh.

Wolvel's Avatar


Wolvel
04.28.2021 , 03:22 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Nickodemous View Post
First, a merc heal to full bubble is pretty easy to notice when it has been activated. Don't hit em. Just force choke em and wait it out.

Now, I agree that a dps jugg/guardian has its issues in ranked. It actually blows the mind considering how differently they play in regs. They are quite efficient in regs.

The main problem is they are so damn easy to keep stun locked by good players. The key is to keep moving, as Trixxie said, mad dash is a good cc breaker. Force leap and the 4 second immunity to stuns is your friend also. Mad dash, and being able to leap to a stationary target helps.....100% dmg immunity for the duration of md and the 4 sec stun immunity after leap. There are many classes that can close on you quickly so it much more difficult to accomplish than it sounds.

I think it would be great if a dps jugg could utilize the backhand talent as our immortal counterparts. Another stun could help.
Only vengeance has 4s stun immunity and 20% DR on leap

Nickodemous's Avatar


Nickodemous
04.29.2021 , 03:26 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Wolvel View Post
Only vengeance has 4s stun immunity and 20% DR on leap
I know! Come on man, all I play (with the exception of a couple of immortal). I could not resist dropping a hint that veng, vig is the way to go in a (rage only) post.
Tyranticus - Ty'zor - Maullin - Clandestu - Pepe'nero

The Elite Warlord Club - The PVP FAB FIVE

xdjinn's Avatar


xdjinn
05.04.2021 , 12:08 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
I play with 230ms ping. I donít know if yours is higher or not, so I canít assess if what you are saying about higher ping compares to my own experience, which is the ping makes no difference to me when comparing rage vs fury. Of course ping does matter in regards to other players getting their abilities off before you or your abilities glitching (aka, not activating). I can totally relate to that and it happens on all classes, but can be felt more on fast moving melee classes or snipers the most (for me).

You shouldnít be looking at your buffs or stacks. Iím assuming that part of the problem is you havenít had enough practice with a fury mara yet to just know where they are at. Once you have enough practice, you donít need to look at them ever.

The thing to remember with fury and rage is they nearly use the exact same rotation. The differences are the DCDs and when to use them and fury being more mobile. Learning to use the stealth ability in conjunction with your tactics and DCDs gives you a big advantage the Juggs donít have. You can escape or reposition if you push a bad situation or use it to avoid focus, something that Juggs canít do.

Also I think itís important to know what utilities you are using for fury and do you swap these depending on game/map type. You can choose mad dash to activate as a second stun breaker if you are having CC issues.

I personally donít play ranked because of the ping situation, so I canít give you advice there. But if you want to discuss regs, I can offer some tactics and strats that work for me when playing people with better ping. I setup my fury like I will never have a healer or tank on my team. Iíve learnt to never rely on a pug team to know how to play or matchmaking to balance.
for regs I shine like a sun, no problems with any classes because I know the game enough, problem starts in ranked, specially solo ranked. There's a massive discrepancy when it comes to balancing in SR, and you can be an average player against an ace, u still gonna have an easier time running said classes. Conc OP and it's copy&paste rep side are among the easiest because it requires much less skill on adapting tactics, it can be run on default pve rotation as u were ganking mobs, all u have to do is know how to combo your CC, and understand your defensives + know what dmg type comes next. Connecting the attacks is a walk in the park so to speak. Conc OP requires game knowledge (little experience). Never played sniper but I hear it's more or less the same thing but without stealth (big disadvantage) although having immunity to charges is tremendous counter to any melee opponent, which's a remnant thing from older SWTOR PvP style (now there's little of "x eats y").

Sorcs are also much easier, u click buttons and aim aoes, if you understand their broken immunity abilities, u are golden, as long as you know how to break LOS. Sure, if u get pinned u're dead, but the amount of skill required to out-perform other classes is very low. So low that on both PvE and PvP I get sleepy playing sorc. (not if I'm healing though)

Mercs work similar to Sorcs, but they are more resilient. PT I'm only starting on PvE so I know squat about it on pvp, although I've been melted by them multiple times, what I've heard from others is that, again, they are really easy to get humongous dmg output without much effort.

That leaves us with Mara underperforming, with a single decent spec for pvp, and jugg underperforming with again a single spec for ranked that people prefer (skank tank).

I've grown tired of Fury Mara and simply switched it into Annihi, tried it on pvp and for regs it's quite good tbh. As long as you play it on a hit n run style more pronounced than concealment ops. So yeah, currently we have way too many specs that are nearly useless on pvp. Sorc got the madness, Mara got Carnage that are both utterly useless on everything, PvE and PvP when compared to their other spec choices. Annihilate that only really works for PvE (I can't see that hit n run tactic working on Ranked at all), Jugg veng only working on pve too, than Rage and Fury, rage is subpar compared to Immortal on pvp, while Fury isn't as durable on constant dps output in a PvP fight, u gotta run midway killing people because u got 2 nukes and CCed once, sure u can over-extend, but depending on who's standing on the enemy team, u'll trade kills, but the meta basically does favor stealth over anything else, meaning that Fury played masterfully is great as complement to a party, but sucks if they have to solo someone even with the opponent being under CD of multiple abilities (happens sometimes on Ranked).

So yeah, I do prefer Rage over Fury, way more durable when keeping dmg output high due to a single tactical. Fury you gotta run for your life, it does help playing against more clueless players since camouflage breaks target, but in a ranked match nobody is that stupid, as soon as you pop back u are their piŮata again.

Now, I've talked about what I know, apparently every class has a bonkers useless spec for pvp or pve, or both. That shouldn't happen at all... Carnage is debatable because I did manage to create a build that does more dmg than Fury in PvE, but it also causes you tendinitis if you stick to it, it's basically a build that runs on overshooting alacrity constantly.
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