Jump to content

How does Pylons even make sense? The way we just lost is garbage.


Loadsamonie

Recommended Posts

Two rounds straight we denied the opposing team their pylon, one time we stole it and ended the round with 2. We go into the 5th round with a 250 point lead, both teams take a pylon, and our team LOSES despite a 250 point cushion (we had 560, they had 311). They got 380 points from their pylon, we only got 120 despite bringing more orbs than they did.

 

What in the hell? How is this fair?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

you get point from killing other players also in hypergates , mean your team prolly died much more so the orbs points cant cover the loss on dying

 

But don't the orbs stack with the multiplier after the fact the way kills do? I would think orbs count for much more than kills. An orb's base value is 4 points, a kill is 1 point.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This can happen sometimes even when you double cap a round. I’ll see a team double cap an objective and then defend by dying and then the team winds up drip-feeding in players to stop the cap. These one and two players running to a pylon that has 5 enemies on it will not be able to cap, but will have that steady feed of kills. You may be stopping their cap ultimately by running in and dying, rinse/repeat, until you’ve held the pylon all round. Those kills start to add up after a while! Now add all those kills the other team just had and that sits in the bank until they cap their next pylon(I think that’s correct) and give that team all those points from that drip feed.

 

Hypergate actually needs dps and kills to counteract a team getting orbs and running the objective. You probably had a similar situation happen where you were holding onto the pylons by dying and spawning again to do the same thing. As the rounds go on the score multiplies and I believe the kill score does as well. When you have a team absolutely rolling over you with kills and dps it’s best not to cap too early because of this previous situation. Try capping later in the round or running orbs at that point.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We try explaining this over and over, but the "objective players" always refuse to listen.

 

Unless you are only a few points away from getting to 600, ORBS ARE NOT IMPORTANT. They are only put there as an anti-turtling mechanic, and as a reward for clearing mid.

 

Kills are much more important, because even though they give less points, kills are counted every round and multiplied as the rounds progress. So if you get 1 orb in round one and I get 1 kill in round one, I get 3 points for the round and you get 6. But because my kill persists per round it is also counted for the next round and the next and the next. Not only that, the points are multiplied every round. So if the match lasts 3 rounds, my 1 kill, is going to give me a total of ... a lot of points, compared to your 6.

 

If your team is losing on kills, orbs aren't going to save you unless you can get 600 before the rounds ends-orbs are counted immediately, kills are counted in the explosion. Your only chance is to stop them from capping or double cap, in which case they get 0 points regardless of how many kills they got.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Kills are much more important, because even though they give less points, kills are counted every round and multiplied as the rounds progress. So if you get 1 orb in round one and I get 1 kill in round one, I get 3 points for the round and you get 6. But because my kill persists per round it is also counted for the next round and the next and the next. Not only that, the points are multiplied every round. So if the match lasts 3 rounds, my 1 kill, is going to give me a total of ... a lot of points, compared to your 6.

 

This is awesome info. Thanks!

 

I’ve also seen teams really evenly matched and orbs being the only thing that wins the game. Each team guarding well and a stalemate mid most of the match. Popping stealth and grabbing a couple orbs might be the difference. I don’t think they are wholly useless.

Edited by picklesrskankin
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is awesome info. Thanks!

 

I’ve also seen teams really evenly matched and orbs being the only thing that wins the game. Each team guarding well and a stalemate mid most of the match. Popping stealth and grabbing a couple orbs might be the difference. I don’t think they are wholly useless.

 

I never said they are useless, I said: "Unless you are only a few points away from getting to 600, ORBS ARE NOT IMPORTANT. ".

 

For example, if your team is at 560 points and the enemy team is at 530 points due to the fact that you stopped a cap in the previous round. But because you fed them so much kills they will have over 900 points when the current round ends and you will have close to 800. Both teams have a pylon, and 2 of your players are constantly running over to theirs feeding them more kills.

 

So what options do you have? You are not going to realistically get more kills in the next 1 minute, you are not going to cap theirs because there are too many of them there, but because there are so many of them there and not in mid, orbs are your only hope. If you can get 2 orbs before the round ends, you will hit 600 and win automatically, since orbs are counted to your score immediately, while kills and pylon points are added during the actual explosion. So in this case, you should be doing everything to get those orbs, even if it means feeding them more kills.

 

Now lets take a look at your example. Here are the problems with it:

1. if the teams are good, chances of you getting an orb are almost non existent, because you will be interrupted every time, especially with all the AoE.

2. If the teams are evenly matched, the stealther should not be leaving his team, he should be contributing to his team by either helping fight, or disrupting them by going over to their side. By trying to go for orbs, you are making yourself useless for 40s, forcing your team to fight a 7v6. You are giving the enemy team an opportunity to get a kill which will give them an even bigger advantage of 7v5 turning it into a death spiral.

3. your description honestly sounds like a case of incompetent dps not being able to outdps the healers or being able to interrupt a cap, in which case getting orbs is still not the right strategy. The correct strategy is to just stop them from capping theirs. If their dps is so incompetent, they will not be able to kill your team in time to cap their pylon. The team that figures this out, wins the match. Orbs will be irrelevant.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for that info. Sorry I’m not quoting this one, I’m at work. I wish more threads would be like this. OP got a bunch of useful information, I’m sure, and it didn’t take 18 people screaming at each other to get it out. I’d rather not just say something like “oh, there’s pylons?” That does nothing for anybody.. most threads I look through are just people screaming and telling the other person why their opinion is better, etc. If we could get more threads like this, newer players would be in a lot better of a position!
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for that info. Sorry I’m not quoting this one, I’m at work. I wish more threads would be like this. OP got a bunch of useful information, I’m sure, and it didn’t take 18 people screaming at each other to get it out. I’d rather not just say something like “oh, there’s pylons?” That does nothing for anybody.. most threads I look through are just people screaming and telling the other person why their opinion is better, etc. If we could get more threads like this, newer players would be in a lot better of a position!

 

This information is available for anyone willing to look.

 

We try telling people before the match starts to ignore the orbs and get kills, but the response is always the same. That we don't know what we're talking about, we're dumb, orbs are all that matter, I should kill myself, I should go death match in ranked etc.

 

We don't have time to give this giant explanation before the match starts and even if we did no one would seriously read it. But for anyone who wants to understand the rules of AH, the information is only a google search away.

Edited by sithBracer
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This information is available for anyone willing to look.

 

We try telling people before the match starts to ignore the orbs and get kills, but the response is always the same. That we don't know what we're talking about, we're dumb, orbs are all that matter, I should kill myself, I should go death match in ranked etc.

 

We don't have time to give this giant explanation before the match starts and even if we did no one would seriously read it. But for anyone who wants to understand the rules of AH, the information is only a google search away.

 

I added my first legacy ignore last night trying to explain this to a guy as we were winning AH, we finished the match victorious (226 to 998) He then spent the next 20 minutes messaging me on why my premade sucked because we don't run orbs and just killed the other team. I was so confused, we controlled mid, full wiped the opponents 8-10 times, double capped once and he still felt the need to be an idiot about friction running orbs. Its no wonder why game developers don't pay a bit of attention to players, most don't even know how the game works.

Edited by Uuno
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This information is available for anyone willing to look.

 

We try telling people before the match starts to ignore the orbs and get kills, but the response is always the same. That we don't know what we're talking about, we're dumb, orbs are all that matter, I should kill myself, I should go death match in ranked etc.

 

We don't have time to give this giant explanation before the match starts and even if we did no one would seriously read it. But for anyone who wants to understand the rules of AH, the information is only a google search away.

 

That’s why I hope threads like this stay up on the top of the forums for a couple days because the people who really want to know it will have read it. I’ve played for 9 or 10 years now and I learn new things all the time. I think that’s how you always get better. You’ll never be so upper echelon there’s nothing to learn anymore and the moment I start feeling that way, will be the moment I’ll never improve past that!

Edited by picklesrskankin
Link to comment
Share on other sites

That’s why I hope threads like this stay up on the top of the forums for a couple days because the people who really want to know it will have read it. I’ve played for 9 or 10 years now and I learn new things all the time. I think that’s how you always get better. You’ll never be so upper echelon there’s nothing to learn anymore and the moment I start feeling that way, will be the moment I’ll never improve past that!

 

everything in here is completely useless information, it doesn't matter whatsoever. if you truly want to get better you should start making an effort to start PvPing in PvP zones in the first place rather than chasing the PvE functions in them. again, just like many have already alluded to; objectives are NOT PvP, at all. if you want to "get better" at anything start PvPing to begin with. then just maybe you might start to see some improvement, depending on whether you're even capable of it or not.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

everything in here is completely useless information, it doesn't matter whatsoever. if you truly want to get better you should start making an effort to start PvPing in PvP zones in the first place rather than chasing the PvE functions in them. again, just like many have already alluded to; objectives are NOT PvP, at all. if you want to "get better" at anything start PvPing to begin with. then just maybe you might start to see some improvement, depending on whether you're even capable of it or not.

 

Ok ty

Link to comment
Share on other sites

oh .. . why have obj, I mean not many vote for MVP, and I was just in a PvP Obj match, we had more obj, then the other team, but they had the kills . . so, why have obj ?

I'm neither for or against having obj, but if objectives do nothing to help win, then there is no point to having them

Link to comment
Share on other sites

so it's like a FFA, even tho your playing CTF, the FFA approach will still win ?

are you saying it's something like that ?

 

Huttball is more like capture the flag.

 

The ideal hypergate is you win on kills the first couple explosions, end up at a point that 2 or 3 orb runs ends the round and do that from there. There are some tricky things you can do to deny points with stealthers snaking a double cap at the last minute but they do all rely on the ability to perform the murder act. Its basically a deathmatch map with a mercy button to end it quick when one team is dominating.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

oh .. . why have obj, I mean not many vote for MVP, and I was just in a PvP Obj match, we had more obj, then the other team, but they had the kills . . so, why have obj ?

I'm neither for or against having obj, but if objectives do nothing to help win, then there is no point to having them

 

If you are talking about the "objective" column in the scoreboard at the end. It was used as part of calculating how many medals you received. The more medals you had the more pvp comms you received, even if you lost. This was when pvp comms and pvp gear existed of course. I don't know if it still works that way.

 

If you are talking about the orbs themselves and the AH warzone, there are objectives and orbs do play their role. The objective first and most important is to get a pylon, since if you don't have a pylon you don't get any points regardless of how many orbs/kills you had. The pylon also gives a lot of points itself, multiplied every round. The secondary objective is to keep your opponent from capping theirs for the reasons above. The third is to secure a lot of kills early, since kills persist through rounds. And if you see mid is clear and no one is trying to steal your pylon, get some orbs. The exception is of course if getting an orb can auto win the game for you, then you prioritize orbs over kills.

 

The orbs themselves play an important role, just not the one everyone assumes they do. They are an anti-turtling mechanic, and a reason to go fight in mid. If they didn't exist, the best strategy would be to just take all 8 people to the pylon, cap and wait for either the other team to send a kill train your way or sudden death. Pretty boring right? But because orbs exist, if a team does that, the enemy team can just go into mid, cap, kill the one or two stragglers and get more points, destroying the turtling strategy. They are also a reward for clearing mid. If your team is dominant in mid, it is an extra reward for them, and gives them something to do instead of spawn camp.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

running orbs makes no difference whatsoever if one of the teams is stacking kills. they could let the other team get every single orb every single round and they would still lose, utterly.

 

Exactly, it needs to be rebalanced so orbs matter more than kills. Change it so orbs count retroactively towards every round the same way kills do.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...