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Mercenary Feedback Thread

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DougTheNoob's Avatar


DougTheNoob
11.15.2021 , 11:47 PM | #61
Quote: Originally Posted by ralphieceaser View Post
It is funny that quite literally everyone but merc players seem to see how overpowered mercs are. Their main excuse has always been "everyone who thinks mercs are OP clearly doesnt know how to counter the obvious to counter dcds" even when in the post people show they know the weakness of those dcds which dont really matter when you think it as a full encounter rather than a "haha you popped reflect, im gonna just aoe and dot, i ve found your weakness" *Meanwhile merc is able to fully dps or heal themselves casually while you are tickling him*

Not only do they have godmode dcds that if rotated properly through good useage of their rest of the toolkit they are gonna be up again by the time the 3 healthbars are down, they have decent burst, self heals, NET and escapes.

And some people are talking as if how a class parses on a dummy matters, in pvp it is heavily about burst windows and how susceptible they are to interference, and with how simple merc dps is along with heartseeker burst their dps in pvp is nowhere near as bad as some pretend it is.

The class needs at the very least heavy dcd nerfs, making them choose between reflect and blue shield could be a decent solution because even if they still have 2 strong dcds, it would be a lot harder to rotate due to the cooldown times.
Nobody saying mercs have bad dmg. It just happens that mercs are mid tier dps,while most of the classes/specs used for pvp have more dps than mercs. Mercs only get there in the dps counting due to the good use of their dcds,so they survive more,to hit more. If u strip one or 2 dcds without increasing its dmg to top tier,u going to kill the class cos they'll die alot easier and so wont sustain their dps.

Mercs are the exact oposite to PTs. Imo,asking devs to take away one of mercs dcd,but keeping their dps as it is,is like asking them to give one more dcd to PTs,without nerfing their dmg. U just going to mess with the balance of the classes.

You guys complainin about mercs dcds like they were nearly unkilable and got immunity to any kind of dmg. Come on...responsive safeguard(reflect) has 2min cd,and kolto overload(the 60%) heal has even more! Merc selfheals wont make em survive unless they are kitting and using it,which any class with selfheals can do too.the only shield that has low cd, is the energy shield(blue one),but it decreases only 25% of any direct dmg,which is lower than sin,mara and jugg dcds dmg mitigation. What makes it good than? It heals the merc for a % of the DIRECT dmg he suffered while the shield was on,after the shield ran off. Most of good dps classes can kill a merc while using energy shield,even with direct dmg,cos 25% mitigation isnt really that much. I know cos I kill alot of mercs like that. Just avoid to hit their reflect and he wont get 3 health bars. They only have 3 health bars cos ppl are stupid and wont learn how to deal with their dcds. Its completly diff from some other class abilities,like jugg's enraged defense,where any type of dmg heals em. The only class that really has 3 health bars,is the jugg,when using grit teeth. And even so they arent immortal,and its undestandable since they are q melee without PTs dmg and cant stealth out like other melee classes.

Hypoteticaly, in a fight where nobody uses any dcds,or maybe just one,what class would lose in a 1v1 to a merc? I mean,maybe mara or sin,if the merc is good and can control em. Any other class,and even those 2 can 1v1 easily a merc in a dmg duel. So, my point is...u want us to lose a dcd? Fine by me. But our dmg gonna have to be higher.

After all,imo,the only specs/classes that should get a small nerf are concealment op and immortal jugg. The only ones that need a small buff are all the marauder specs, rage jugg, madness sorc and the dot sin which I always forget the name xD. The others are just fine as they are. I do believe some changes they making are just dumb,indeed,and they should rethink most of em. I hope they realize that.

TheVoyant's Avatar


TheVoyant
11.17.2021 , 11:19 PM | #62
Its honestly just people not knowing the strategies to counter mercs. You just fight them in the same way you do an Immortal, CCs and wait out their DCDs. Its why they've limited stun breaks bc thats how you handle them. As Doug stated this is why they're lower DPS then others. A Merc is literally survive then burst.

It's literally the identity of the class people want changed. But sure lets keep asking for even more removed in an entire update centered around nerfing the game. Its why we can't have nice things :P

velvet_illusionZ's Avatar


velvet_illusionZ
11.18.2021 , 04:33 AM | #63
guys you need to understand-every class looses dcds! you argue that loosing one would kill the class-no it won'T cause everyone else looses dcds as well, you are the only class still able to spec in all your dcds-that is just wrong and problematic. mercs allready were problematic and will be even more if nothing gets changed. you complain about loosing a 30 aoe damage reduction, which you shouldn't have had in the first place-you are ranged for gods sake, if you have trouble getting too much aoe lern to position yourself properly. classes that need that don't have it-melee. and a class which got the most dcds of all complain about loosing something they shouldn't have had in the first place. your damage might be midtier-still good enough cause you live way longer than most classes cause of your overabdundance of strong dcds+ you got the abillity to selfheal on top. its laughable...if you can't survive loosing a dcd while still having net, double rocket out, being ranged, knockback, perma slows build in your rota and solid damage -the problem is in the lack of skill of the vast majority of merc mains. and if it happens that mercs might be at the end of the foodchain again, then so be it, lots of specs are right now too-you had 3+ solid years being on top, time to shake up the meta! mercs need to be brought down to lvl the playing field-no second opinion on this! conc ops need this even more tbh...

DougTheNoob's Avatar


DougTheNoob
11.19.2021 , 12:24 AM | #64
Quote: Originally Posted by velvet_illusionZ View Post
guys you need to understand-every class looses dcds! you argue that loosing one would kill the class-no it won'T cause everyone else looses dcds as well, you are the only class still able to spec in all your dcds-that is just wrong and problematic. mercs allready were problematic and will be even more if nothing gets changed. you complain about loosing a 30 aoe damage reduction, which you shouldn't have had in the first place-you are ranged for gods sake, if you have trouble getting too much aoe lern to position yourself properly. classes that need that don't have it-melee. and a class which got the most dcds of all complain about loosing something they shouldn't have had in the first place. your damage might be midtier-still good enough cause you live way longer than most classes cause of your overabdundance of strong dcds+ you got the abillity to selfheal on top. its laughable...if you can't survive loosing a dcd while still having net, double rocket out, being ranged, knockback, perma slows build in your rota and solid damage -the problem is in the lack of skill of the vast majority of merc mains. and if it happens that mercs might be at the end of the foodchain again, then so be it, lots of specs are right now too-you had 3+ solid years being on top, time to shake up the meta! mercs need to be brought down to lvl the playing field-no second opinion on this! conc ops need this even more tbh...
You talk like mercs didnt get nerf at all. They can keep almost all their dcds, yes,but lost mobility a control(mercs lost their only hard stun and skill thst offers immunity to pull,push and slow). Take away one of their dcds now,and u'll just destroy the class,as mercs wont be able to get away from melees as easy as they do now without hydraulic, and gonna get globaled way easier too. Imagine that without one of the dcds? Keep in mind mercs lost the only dcd that gave em dmg mitigation to aoe, which is one of their biggest weakness. No,the nerfing was already way too harsh,as it was on every class,apart from operative. I do agree the most affected class was the jugg class,and I believe the dps specs shouldnt be that nerfed(rage deserved a buff actualy).
And lets be honest. Juggs having to choose either mad dash or saber reflect is praticaly the same thing that mercs having to choose either responsive safeguard or hydraulic. I see many juggs complaining about that and I find it funny that some of em come to say that merc is getting out intact. Lol. I agree that changing grit teeth is dumb tho. They should have just nerf skank tanks dps to the ground,the same way assassins and powertech tanks are and that would be fine already.

Kri-gal's Avatar


Kri-gal
11.19.2021 , 07:39 AM | #65
The discussion is confusing. People are discussing as if abilities and balance in PVP and PVE are the same. Arsenal Mercs burst very well and that's what makes them dangerous in PVP, but sustained damage is bottom of the barrel, which plays no part in PVP. If you get off a full rotation in PVP you're playing against a bad opponent. So, the abilities that are grouped together for certain choices affect PVP and PVE differently. Mercs are bad at dummy parsing when compared to other classes. It's their utilities and mobility that make them even viable in Ops. It sounds like these changes/choices need to be geared toward whether a person seems to be building toward PVP or PVE. If, at the first selection, a person chooses a prominent PVP selection, cater the next selections to achieve the balance you want in PVP. I play Merc mostly in PVE, and if some of these changes take affect for PVE I'll probably just stop playing all together. I play for mobility and utility, like a Merc/BH should have. If I wanted superior DPS I'd play a different class.

Dyne-'s Avatar


Dyne-
11.19.2021 , 01:38 PM | #66
Quote: Originally Posted by DougTheNoob View Post
You talk like mercs didnt get nerf at all. They can keep almost all their dcds, yes,but lost mobility a control(mercs lost their only hard stun and skill thst offers immunity to pull,push and slow). Take away one of their dcds now,and u'll just destroy the class,as mercs wont be able to get away from melees as easy as they do now without hydraulic, and gonna get globaled way easier too. Imagine that without one of the dcds? Keep in mind mercs lost the only dcd that gave em dmg mitigation to aoe, which is one of their biggest weakness. No,the nerfing was already way too harsh,as it was on every class,apart from operative. I do agree the most affected class was the jugg class,and I believe the dps specs shouldnt be that nerfed(rage deserved a buff actualy).
And lets be honest. Juggs having to choose either mad dash or saber reflect is praticaly the same thing that mercs having to choose either responsive safeguard or hydraulic. I see many juggs complaining about that and I find it funny that some of em come to say that merc is getting out intact. Lol. I agree that changing grit teeth is dumb tho. They should have just nerf skank tanks dps to the ground,the same way assassins and powertech tanks are and that would be fine already.
The level 70/73 choices are similar, but the difference is that Merc starts the fight with a ranged advantage. I can see why they opted to put hydraulic overrides as the 70/73 choice instead of rocket out. A Merc will cover way more distance with hydraulic overrides than rocket out, and it had an immunity buff which limits counterplay. Thematically a Merc that can't boost makes about as much sense as a force user that can't deflect blaster bolts, so I am glad Mercs kept rocket out. However, we're basically in a situation where melee leaps to a Merc, Merc hits rocket out, then we're back to square one. If you catch back up Merc just knocks you back / e-nets and now you get to stand there like a smart guy and get destroyed.

Mad Dash / Saber Reflect is a much more punishing choice for Juggs since we can't spec into Enrage movement speed boost anymore. Chilling Scream is removed and the movement speed boost that went along with it as well as Through Power and the movement speed boost + immunity that came with that.

Realistically a Merc is just going to choose thrill of the hunt + responsive safeguards and carry on with their lives. They'll be softer targets for sure with the Kolto changes, but they'll enjoy a much greater movement speed advantage + DCD advantage than they currently have on live. Unless of course Bioware removes / reduces the amount of movement impairing effects that melee are currently subjected to.

It's obvious Bioware tried to standardize the type of choices we have to make, which is great, but they didn't account for the fact that one class is ranged and the other is melee.

So yes Mercs were subjected to a solid nerf, but it's hardly even given the destruction Juggs / Marauders have endured. It will be almost impossible to catch Mercs in a 1v1 scenario unless they limit rocket out to one charge at the very least.

This is a problem of Bioware's own creation lol. Let's see what they do (if anything) to attempt to fix it. I'll help them out. The answer is not to break Mercs even more.

TheVoyant's Avatar


TheVoyant
11.19.2021 , 05:32 PM | #67
Quote: Originally Posted by Kri-gal View Post
The discussion is confusing. People are discussing as if abilities and balance in PVP and PVE are the same. Arsenal Mercs burst very well and that's what makes them dangerous in PVP, but sustained damage is bottom of the barrel, which plays no part in PVP. If you get off a full rotation in PVP you're playing against a bad opponent. So, the abilities that are grouped together for certain choices affect PVP and PVE differently. Mercs are bad at dummy parsing when compared to other classes. It's their utilities and mobility that make them even viable in Ops. It sounds like these changes/choices need to be geared toward whether a person seems to be building toward PVP or PVE. If, at the first selection, a person chooses a prominent PVP selection, cater the next selections to achieve the balance you want in PVP. I play Merc mostly in PVE, and if some of these changes take affect for PVE I'll probably just stop playing all together. I play for mobility and utility, like a Merc/BH should have. If I wanted superior DPS I'd play a different class.
I retract my statement lol. Bc while I disagree with some parts. What you're saying I can agree with for the most part.

DougTheNoob's Avatar


DougTheNoob
11.19.2021 , 06:36 PM | #68
Quote: Originally Posted by Dyne- View Post
The level 70/73 choices are similar, but the difference is that Merc starts the fight with a ranged advantage. I can see why they opted to put hydraulic overrides as the 70/73 choice instead of rocket out. A Merc will cover way more distance with hydraulic overrides than rocket out, and it had an immunity buff which limits counterplay. Thematically a Merc that can't boost makes about as much sense as a force user that can't deflect blaster bolts, so I am glad Mercs kept rocket out. However, we're basically in a situation where melee leaps to a Merc, Merc hits rocket out, then we're back to square one. If you catch back up Merc just knocks you back / e-nets and now you get to stand there like a smart guy and get destroyed.

Mad Dash / Saber Reflect is a much more punishing choice for Juggs since we can't spec into Enrage movement speed boost anymore. Chilling Scream is removed and the movement speed boost that went along with it as well as Through Power and the movement speed boost + immunity that came with that.

Realistically a Merc is just going to choose thrill of the hunt + responsive safeguards and carry on with their lives. They'll be softer targets for sure with the Kolto changes, but they'll enjoy a much greater movement speed advantage + DCD advantage than they currently have on live. Unless of course Bioware removes / reduces the amount of movement impairing effects that melee are currently subjected to.

It's obvious Bioware tried to standardize the type of choices we have to make, which is great, but they didn't account for the fact that one class is ranged and the other is melee.

So yes Mercs were subjected to a solid nerf, but it's hardly even given the destruction Juggs / Marauders were subjected to. It will be almost impossible to catch Mercs in a 1v1 scenario unless they limit rocket out to one charge at the very least.

This is a problem of Bioware's own creation lol. Let's see what they do (if anything) to attempt to fix it. I'll help them out. The answer is not to break Mercs even more.
Well,I agree warriors/knights got nerfed more. Tho I think the skank juggs deserved to be nerfed, I feel like some of the other changes on the dps specs were too harsh and should be reworked. But that dosent mean mercs didnt get nerfed, and believe me mercs goin to be the easiest range for melee to jump to,since we lost mobility and control. Fight to see bw changing the dps jugg specs, but mercs dont deserve to be even more nerfed bcos of it.

Kri-gal's Avatar


Kri-gal
11.19.2021 , 07:28 PM | #69
Quote: Originally Posted by TheVoyant View Post
I retract my statement lol. Bc while I disagree with some parts. What you're saying I can agree with for the most part.
I mean, how many raid bosses do you get to hard stun? So, the hard stun is probably something you can do without if your primary gameplay is Ops. My guess, though, is that ALL Mercs, while in PVP, keep their hard stun on cool down for the most part. It's a staple of the class that gives you a fighting change against a harder hitting, harder to kill melee class. Stunning them, pushing them away, slowing them, and rocketing out (utilities) are your lifeblood in PVP. Very few Op Boss fights rely on any of those things.

Maybe they should seriously consider having a PVP and PVE toggle or quickload so you can make different selections for different content. It would alleviate some of the problems I'm seeing mentioned here.

velvet_illusionZ's Avatar


velvet_illusionZ
11.20.2021 , 04:27 AM | #70
Quote: Originally Posted by Dyne- View Post

It's obvious Bioware tried to standardize the type of choices we have to make, which is great, but they didn't account for the fact that one class is ranged and the other is melee.

.
that is the core of the problem- mercs are ranged, range is kinda a def in itself, which means that they got too many dcds + tools on top of being ranged. but the same goes for other ranged classes as well...range classes should always do less damage and be more squishy than melee, which they do not atm. this needs to change fundamentally. especially considering the amount of slows and roots ranged class have to make life miserable for a melee trying to get to ranged...